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3x Baton Pass is actually pretty easy in Kamoshida's palace if you fight the Shadows enough, there's a few combinations of enemies that will have weaknesses to Fire/Wind/Electric/Shadow in some combination that works out for just running through the party. Especially handy is that you can get Joker additional Persona to help spread this out to even more combinations.
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Mar 8, 2019 14:38
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Personally, I feel Persona 4 and Persona 5 both do a good job of making each group feel like friends, in different ways but still. Unfortunately a lot of the really good dialogue for the Phantom Thieves being friends is incendental stuff down in Mementos which people understandably avoid a lot of the time. Off the top of my head though Ryuji and Ann definitely feel more like friends then Yosuke and Chie/Yukiko, and generally I feel like yes the friendships between the Investigation Team do work they tend to be more 1 on 1 and less group based, the Phantom Thieves outside Morgana/Ryuji seem to at least all get along and understand eachother etc. Much less arguments and clashes I feel, although that might just be Yosuke kind of not being a great friend outside of the Protagonist. Basically both groups do feel like real friends, but the different circumstances and personalities give them different tones.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:34
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And breaking someone's distorted view of reality isn't necessarily going to get exactly the result they want every time anyway, it just has never failed. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence or something, just because it's worked before doesn't mean they're not worried it will fail eventually.
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Apr 24, 2019 02:07
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Yusuke’s introduction is also when he’s being treated narratively as an extension of Madarame’s will, and perhaps he is acting the way he’s seen Madarame sometimes act with conventionally attractive women. It probably is about Ann being a wonderful model in his eyes but he’s been tainted by his upbringing with a pretty terrible selfish skeevy guy until he realises that Madarame is a terrible person and quickly tries to distance himself from Madarame’s personality and lifestyle.
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Apr 30, 2019 16:18
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I feel like people who like Morgana would have really different feelings if the character were just a human the whole time and not a cute cat Considering that like with Teddie I read Morgana as quite young compared to the rest of the party then he's just kind of a lovely kid who needs to listen to the protagonist more so he can stop being a lovely kid. So to speak I don't really mind Morgana, he's not my favourite, but he's good enough for a "cute mascot".
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May 14, 2019 11:20
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Yeah, Makoto and Haru are the two who seem most actually into Joker when you get the romance choice and therefore the ones who just have to deal with being rejected if you do so. None of the adults initiate anything, even if they might suggest an attraction it’s subtle, outside maybe Ohya (who can be a terrible influence and person). Ann and Futaba are both vague and neither take it all that hard. Hifumi might be pretty let down but I don’t actually recall or know.
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May 19, 2019 04:26
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HaB posted:Crosspost from the cosplay thread: This is a good cosplay.
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May 28, 2019 13:14
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Ibram Gaunt posted:IMO it's extremely having your cake and eating it too, to have the first arc be about an abusive teacher and how bad that is, and then let you gently caress your teacher, because she's hot so it's different. In theory the actual difference is that Kamoshida uses his power and privelage to force himself on students, whilst Joker has to convince Kawakami three times to get her to even consider a relationship. In practice this is still terrible horseshit that shouldn’t be in the game outside of maybe a when you’re Older and not my student response. It’s also real disappointing we got romances with adult women before we got romances with other teen guys, Ryuji Yusuke and Mishima should have all been romantic options.
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Jun 1, 2019 07:16
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NachtSieger posted:why would you ever date mishima, he's not even a fun disaster of a person like yusuke is Because I actually think his realisation of being an rear end in a top hat and working to correct it is noble, and of the male characters he shows the most interest in Joker. To the point where it would be very easy to write him as having a fanboy crush on the protagonist that he doesn't notice until the protagonist mentions it and offers a date or whatever. Also as much as I want to stop him from screwing up and doing bad things I also wanna make sure he's safe considering he gets a lot of poo poo from a lot of people he doesn't deserve. He's probably one of the most victimised people in the game, the fact he turns this into motivation for being an rear end in a top hat doesn't change that he's bullied and belittled by almost everyone he knows.
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Jun 1, 2019 08:34
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NachtSieger posted:I feel like I should say that I really like his Social Link and his character progression is really cool Oh absolutely, he's a dork. My point is that it's also endearing how much he wants to help at the beginning and the end of his link, and the stuff about how he's been pretty much beaten down all his life by bullies and jerks. It'd be nice to give him someone who likes him and wants to make him happy, and why can't Joker be that person. Basically Mishima is a loser who I think it'd be nice if one of the options was to show him that he's not as much of a loser as he thinks he is. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Jun 1, 2019 |
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Jun 1, 2019 08:44
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Also, the protagonists are still societal outcasts anyway. They’re just not literally removed from everyone else. They’re mistreated and disrespected and kept at arms length by everyone who isn’t themselves somehow outcast from society. Like, look at the confidants. You have a disgraced medical doctor, a teacher working herself to death for past failures, a disgraced politician, an ex-Yakuza, a journalist who is being beaten down by the system, a clairvoyant who is being made to sucker her clients, the list goes on and on. Arguing that these people aren’t somehow outcast enough is ridiculous in my mind. Heck we just discussed Mishima, who is almost literally everyone’s punching bag and victim. To the point where Futaba mistreats him too. Joker almost literally has no friends because everyone treats him like a violent criminal. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jun 2, 2019 |
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Jun 2, 2019 04:15
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Which is the other thing, comedy is subjective and where some might find Mishima’s treatment hilarious, and in several ways it is. Others might find it deeply upsetting in the same way people find Ryuji getting dumped on constantly obnoxious. Or Yusuke’s starving artist schtick.
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Jun 2, 2019 04:32
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:The thing that gets me is that it's not even like...something they ever bother to openly discuss ever. Joker never talks to Morgana about it, Ann never acknowledges it, it's basically just like constantly hearing Morgana's internal horny thoughts. It could have been interesting if the game did literally anything with it, but they don't. Is the whole thing just supposed to be a goof about how Ann is dressed like a cat and Morgana is a cat? It seems so bizarre for one of Morgana's defining character traits to never be acknowledged by another character It's because Ann is the designated attractive person in general, and Morgana like all men hopes for a chance with her. It's dumb and bad basically.
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Jun 3, 2019 07:34
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Marie is the correct Romance because she can control the weather.
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Jun 3, 2019 17:26
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I mean, Akechi's plan is awful because he's pretty explicitly a broken crazed shell of a human barely pretending to hold things together on the outside. That's the entire point of his boss fight, he's been broken and hurt and wrecked and Shido found him without knowing their connections and used him as a weapon because that's what Shido does, uses people for his own benefit. Akechi being broken and crazed decides on his plan, which is to give Shido just a taste of what he wants before ripping it all away and crowing in his face about how Akechi is the one to have destroyed everything he wanted just as Shido abandoned and destroyed Akechi. It's crazed because that's the point, it's a bad plan because Akechi is a damaged person who makes bad plans in regards to his own personal relationships, because he's bad at both hating people and liking them.
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Jun 17, 2019 10:52
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:I wish the game would tell us more about it because the two paragraphs you wrote is more time than the game spends trying to explain his "plan" and backstory, so it's hard to really know exactly at which point he developed the plan and when in his life this all happened. But, also, that doesn't really add up with the parts of the game where he's really intelligent and calculating and not broken and insane, which is all of the game minus five minutes. He's not so badly damaged that he can't go to school and have a job and appear on television and also devise an elaborate plan to catch and kill the Phantom Thieves that only didn't work due to a mistake he couldn't have possibly known about making I'd assume because his broken-ness is well hidden, we see very little of the real Akechi until the very end during his boss fight. But also maybe I am reading more then the game laid down.
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Jun 17, 2019 11:19
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Akechi's outfit is literally the heroic champion of justice he pretends to be, his later outfit is his true nature, both are projections of his beliefs about people and heroism and hatred. But that still means his idea of heroic champion of justice is what amounts to a big fancy outfit befitting nobility and a literal westernised superhero as a Persona. This is in contrast to the actual Phantom Thieves who have a much more nuanced/mature depiction of anti-heroes and the such. Akechi wants desperately the be the hero of his own story, it's part of his issue with Joker, that his life is miserable and lonely when he's such a successful person and Joker who's lost everything is happy with friends. Akechi is complicated, the game itself says as much. He's broken and ultimately at the end recognises and regrets his life, saying he wished he'd met Joker earlier in life and been shown how to have friends and be a person earlier than he was.
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Jun 17, 2019 14:28
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I’m pretty sure the idea is that Joker a) has stress induced trauma blocking him from remembering Shido and b) is telling Sae several months afterwards whilst loaded with truth drugs that are also making him drowsy and forgetful.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:22
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Macaluso posted:One thing I wish Royal was changing was having Makoto just say "Sae" instead of "Sis". I hate it with my life I like it because it feels like Makoto teaching for the relationship they used to have. Sydin posted:Sah-KAH-mah-toe-kun This one is extra funny/sad because the wrong way is how they were told to pronounce it. Also for the guy above me I didn’t get that reading of Ryuji at all, he only really dunks on Morgana, everyone comments on Yusuke being strange, and his deal with Ann is they’re really old friends aware of eachother and able to joke like that. Also, the thing is Kamoshida was looking for any reason to ruin the track team he could find, and if you pay attention it’s revealed that he baited Ryuji by talking about his dad. Ryuji attacking in response is wrong, but Kamoshida was trying to get that response and knew what he was doing was blatantly insulting and cruel. He also broke Ryuji’s leg which was unnecessary no matter what the situation, and continued to antagonise and bully Ryuji because part of Kamoshida’s entire deal is wanting to feel successful and strong by tearing other people down. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 03:50
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Oxxidation posted:ryuji is the best character in persona 5 by a country mile I thought they were friends in Middle School who drifted apart as they became older but fair point. He borrowed 500 yen from her and they still remember it, they also seem closest amongst the phantom thieves imo. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 04:45
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TVs Ian posted:I figured she had grown apart from her dad. I mean, he was apparently a good guy when she was a kid. But at this point in time, he was marrying her off to an abusive rear end in a top hat for business purposes, and, unknown to her, working with Shido and Akechi to take out his rivals and help Shido gain power. And that's aside from being an awful boss that treated his employees like robots (and presumably just wasn't around much for her anymore). The good guy she knew was gone by the time he got killed. Haru also shows some pretty vicious levels of sadism and such in Mementos, I'd totally buy her reaction to her father dying being muted/repressed for the purpose of pushing onwards for vengeance and justice etc.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:00
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Personally, I felt Shido was fine as an antagonist. Not fantastic and the conspiricy angle isn't the greatest but having the final villain in a game about systemic corruption be a corrupt politican willing to do anything to claim power and control over the population seems pretty solid to me. It's not even like the previous palace bosses were that directly involved in his plans, off the top of my head Kamoshida is not. Madarame at most is doing his painting scam as a way to move money around. Kaneshiro is bribing/paying Shido's faction to help with his mafia stuff. Okamaru of course was outright supporting Shido's political party in return for assassinations and eventual help gaining access to the political sphere himself. Sae is of course not directly related but works for the SIU Director who is also in Shido's pocket. Whilst the way it plays out may not be great, these aren't some wild conspiricy level connections, just a bunch of corrupt people supporting and running money through one another for their selfish goals. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Aug 2, 2019 |
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Aug 2, 2019 18:14
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Yeah, as far as options go agreeing with the mysterious magical figure who granted you your powers for a second chance is not particularly strange.
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Aug 19, 2019 07:49
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Macaluso posted:I'm gonna have you arrested in real life for having the GALL to compare Akechi to Vegeta. Akechi killed less people, for one thing, and intended to overthrow his brutal monstrous leader eventually instead of toadying the entire time.
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Sep 12, 2019 05:17
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Tired Moritz posted:why can we gently caress older ladies as a teenager in a game where the first bad guy is a dude that rapes teenagers Mostly player cipher stuff really, also the bad guy is forcing himself onto the teenagers. The other romances are not mandatory parts of a character arc, outside Ohya who is faking it as a secret potential scandal to hide her actual work, and when pursuing the romance generally require the idea to be started by the protagonist and far more convincing than the same age romances do. Arguably the correct action would have been in every case where the older confidants are romanced they make it clear that nothing will happen for the two years Joker still has of high school. Anyway I now must date Haru every time because her rejection scene hurts the most for me to watch personally. Even if I myself outside the character of Joker really like Kawakami and think she is cute.
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Oct 27, 2019 23:19
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Arist posted:What I mean is that Sae is a nightmare person How so, the game itself shows that her corruption is rooted in her sense of justice and once shown what she was becoming she rapidly steps back from it, same as Mishima when he was going bad. Additionally, from what we hear of her through Makoto she's only recently started to be like this, it's a new development not who she has always been. It's telling that unlike all the other villains Sae doesn't need her treasure stolen narratively, and there is every suggestion that it was not stolen at all. She makes a few mistakes in regards to Makoto, and threatens something pretty terrible towards Sojiro but she doesn't follow through with the threat towards Sojiro and is shown the error of her ways. She probably should've apologised to all of them but it's really weird people hate her so vehemently. Akechi I understand, Akechi actively did a lot of really heinous awful stuff to a lot of people. Sae however is shown to only recently be breaking down, and it's related to the impossible to solve Mental Shutdown and Phantom Thief cases being a huge strain, plus her sexist work environment and actually villainous boss both pressuring her harder than before to find "results". Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Oct 28, 2019 |
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Oct 28, 2019 08:40
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Hunt11 posted:Good thing that at the end of the game she quits being a cop. She's also not really a cop to begin with, she works with them but is distinct from their power structure as a prosecutor. TVs Ian posted:It seems like stealing the treasure isn't strictly necessary for changing a person, defeating their shadow is the key for that. And they definitely didn't steal Sae's, unless they went back post-fakeout to grab it. Otherwise the palace would have collapsed and ruined that plan. Stealing the treasure is 100% implied to be necessary for changing false cognition, which Sae does cure on her own. The Treasure is whatever is the root of their warped desires, and ultimately are the cause of their warped view of the world. Kamoshida is a monster, but the treasure is the manifestation of his belief that he deserves whatever he wants from anyone. So on and so forth. Thus whilst defeating Sae's Shadow might have helped, without removing her treasure her heart would have remained distorted and thus her sense of justice which is ultimately what the Phantom Thieves plan relies on would not heal without her taking the next steps.
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Oct 28, 2019 16:23
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Sapozhnik posted:This is the person whose Id (or whatever) is the manager of a completely rigged from top to bottom casino that presumably didn't suddenly get that way overnight you're talking about, right Manager does not mean owner. They’re still an employee and so must participate in whatever regime the owner desires, in this case the government/SIU director. Also palaces can form pretty quickly, and the only definite timeline we have for Sae’s palace is that it was open when Makoto joined. It might even have formed directly in response to Sae losing any credit for the Kaneshiro case.
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Oct 29, 2019 10:56
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Sapozhnik posted:For Madarame, the remake added a second phase where he spawns lovely elemental clones constantly so the idea is you have to chain together a full baton pass and then have Ryuji (whoever) finish up by punching him with the fury of an wrathful god. Which is a neat gimmick I guess but I much prefer the original single phase version, it was the hardest and most satisfying boss battle in the original for me. All things considered Yusuke is kind of designed to be baton passed to, even at that point. So that's at least kind of neat/fitting?
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Mar 15, 2020 08:09
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