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WoodrowSkillson posted:Been at it again and I'm just not finding the fun in brutal. It makes every fight just a demand for perfection. That's almost ok but then you have the fact the game does things like already having an attack on its way after the intro speech of a captain, and you have no chance to respond before half your life gets taken away by a grunt. Yeah I think they might have overdid some of the complications you face in combat. Guys you can't hit because they counter, guys you can't hit because they have shields, guys you can't hit because hitting them doesn't stop their attack animation, guys with crossbows, guys with javelins, guys on wolves, guys who are huge, all at the same time, forever. I end up vaulting over dudes over and over again to find a space to fight from until I hit a troll or another vault blocker and get stuck. I've barely ever used the ground punch wraith flash power because any time you're surrounded by orcs you're never going to have a chance to get your might up to use it because you're trying to find one guy you can hit safely whilst dodging a dozen arrows/spears. It's good that the fights stay challenging, I just wish they could have stayed challenging and fun.
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Jul 31, 2018 13:34
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Crowetron posted:It's hilarious. It's basically a two-game-long essay on why Elves and specifically Celebrimbor are very, very stupid. It's a lot more fun if you imagine Sauron watching everything through a magic orb and being like "Wait, what are they doing? The orc thing again? Didn't I kill Celebrimbor for doing this exact same thing once already?" Celebrimbor thinks it will go differently because he forged a Sauron free ring. Technically he was right, but Talion goes and screws it up for him anyway. I enjoy the story but there's no way to take it seriously. It's basically a fully realized what-if fanfic and I love it for it.
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Jul 31, 2018 13:40
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As a giant Tolkien fan I love that they actually did something interesting with the setting and hope it saves the way for more game or stories that aren't afraid to actually do something new with middle earth. Nothing in SoW actually goes against the rules or whatnot, even Shelob shapeshifting is perfectly plausible given other being of her stature do it in Tolkien.
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Jul 31, 2018 13:57
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I like the part where even in-game they're like "wtf, Galadriel doesn't use assassins"
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Jul 31, 2018 14:32
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Personally I read that whole mess as "Nobody liked Eltariel and this was a good way to send her away on a long, long assignment far from home where she might at least putter around and kill an orc or two"
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Jul 31, 2018 14:46
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Often Abbreviated posted:Yeah I think they might have overdid some of the complications you face in combat. Guys you can't hit because they counter, guys you can't hit because they have shields, guys you can't hit because hitting them doesn't stop their attack animation, guys with crossbows, guys with javelins, guys on wolves, guys who are huge, all at the same time, forever. I end up vaulting over dudes over and over again to find a space to fight from until I hit a troll or another vault blocker and get stuck. I've barely ever used the ground punch wraith flash power because any time you're surrounded by orcs you're never going to have a chance to get your might up to use it because you're trying to find one guy you can hit safely whilst dodging a dozen arrows/spears. They can't counter glaive use, which I've used in the middle of large groups to quickly build Might so I could pop off a poison wraith flash. Works wonders for mixed groups with ologs, defenders and berserkers.
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Jul 31, 2018 20:33
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Crowetron posted:It's hilarious. It's basically a two-game-long essay on why Elves and specifically Celebrimbor are very, very stupid. It's a lot more fun if you imagine Sauron watching everything through a magic orb and being like "Wait, what are they doing? The orc thing again? Didn't I kill Celebrimbor for doing this exact same thing once already?" honestly these games have been a big ego boost for me because even when the movie trilogy came out and everyone was in full elf-love mode i was down on them for being the reason this apocalypse was a problem in the first place, and everyone thought i was crazy. nobody read the books, of course, which clarify that quite a bit. they still treat the elves with near deity-like deference but at least it's obvious whose fault Sauron is. then the games come out and the writing is flat out "yeah no everything going on here is an elf problem and the elves themselves are doing their damnedest to pretend like it isn't their fault" and i'm like 
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Jul 31, 2018 20:50
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As in all things, elves are dicks.
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Jul 31, 2018 21:02
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Coolguye posted:honestly these games have been a big ego boost for me because even when the movie trilogy came out and everyone was in full elf-love mode i was down on them for being the reason this apocalypse was a problem in the first place, and everyone thought i was crazy. nobody read the books, of course, which clarify that quite a bit. they still treat the elves with near deity-like deference but at least it's obvious whose fault Sauron is. How did the elves cause it?
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Jul 31, 2018 21:06
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Coolguye posted:honestly these games have been a big ego boost for me because even when the movie trilogy came out and everyone was in full elf-love mode i was down on them for being the reason this apocalypse was a problem in the first place, and everyone thought i was crazy. nobody read the books, of course, which clarify that quite a bit. they still treat the elves with near deity-like deference but at least it's obvious whose fault Sauron is. Yeah - the elves didn't cause anything. They fought with the Valar in the War of the Wrath during the First Age and led the Last Alliance at the end of the Second. The elves were the only race that were able to see through his bullshit which is why their 3 rings were uncorrupted by the One Ring. e: 
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Jul 31, 2018 21:47
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Oldstench posted:Yeah - the elves didn't cause anything. They fought with the Valar in the War of the Wrath during the First Age and led the Last Alliance at the end of the Second. The elves were the only race that were able to see through his bullshit which is why their 3 rings were uncorrupted by the One Ring.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:33
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Blaming "the elves" is pretty disingenuous. Even when he was in disguise Elrond, Gil-galad and Galadriel didn't trust him and didn't welcome him in their lands. You can blame Eregion, if you feel okay blaming people who were tricked by a very patient demigod. Also Sauron was the one who taught them how to become such great craftsmen, not the other way around. The rings were their idea but it's not like he didn't know how to make things like that.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:48
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Oldstench posted:The elves were the only race that were able to see through his bullshit which is why their 3 rings were uncorrupted by the One Ring. That sounds like some real convenient post-hoc justification. More likely is the rings were made to allow the elves to dominate everyone else.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:49
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Often Abbreviated posted:That sounds like some real convenient post-hoc justification. More likely is the rings were made to allow the elves to dominate everyone else. Not likely. The One Ring was the only one that had power over the other rings, and that was made entirely by Sauron.
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Jul 31, 2018 22:52
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Ravenfood posted:They taught Sauron how to forge Rings of Power in the first place. Also, Feanor's weird bullshit kind of kickstarted everything. No. Sauron taught them. He learned from Aulë the Smith.
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Jul 31, 2018 23:01
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Ravenfood posted:They taught Sauron how to forge Rings of Power in the first place. Also, Feanor's weird bullshit kind of kickstarted everything. Yeah, specifically everything wrong with the world is pretty much Feanor's fault. Celebrimbor was his last living descendant.
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Aug 1, 2018 00:47
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SURE ARE A LOT OF ELF LOVERS IN THIS THREAD! 
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Aug 1, 2018 01:14
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Look I'm not going to deny that Feanor is a humongous gaping rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 1, 2018 01:16
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Nemesis game where you mercilessly kill elves
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Aug 1, 2018 01:19
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Inspector Hound posted:Nemesis game where you mercilessly kill elves I would like to play as an ork
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Aug 1, 2018 01:27
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I love trolls. Someday all of my armies are going to consist entirely of trolls.
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Aug 1, 2018 01:32
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Oldstench posted:No. Sauron taught them. He learned from Aulë the Smith.
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Aug 1, 2018 01:38
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Inspector Hound posted:Nemesis game where you mercilessly kill elves Dwarf Fortress
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Aug 1, 2018 05:57
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I still don't get why everyone was falling over themselves to get at the Palantir. I mean, I get the idea and a magical surveillance orb would be hugely useful in a war, but whenever anyone has it they don't actually use the information. I only ever read The Hobbit, but I remember something from the LOTR movies that Sauron can see you when you look into the Palantir, so I guess that's why the human forces at the beginning don't use it. But then the Witchking has it for 90% of the game, and never seems to do anything with it. Like he can theoretically see Talion's every move, but then every time you attack a Ringwraith they seem surprised to see you. Then, at the end, Talion uses it to scope out the Sauron fight on Fantasy Pay Per View, nods his head, and then just leaves it there? I guess my point is that the Palantir is just another example of Celebrimbor being a big doofus. SettingSun posted:Celebrimbor thinks it will go differently because he forged a Sauron free ring. Technically he was right, but Talion goes and screws it up for him anyway. Sure, I guess, but you'd think he consider changing tactics for like half a second but he never does. Also, I assumed the new ring still had corruption powers, otherwise the scene where Eltariel slaps that bad boy on without a second thought after spending the whole game talking about how evil it is makes even less sense. You're totally right about the plot feeling fanfictiony. It's part of the charm.
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Aug 1, 2018 07:01
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Sauron actually needs a palantir to look through the others. In fact, the Ithil stone is the one he uses in the books and the movies to that end. There are major and minor stones among the palantiri. The major ones could be oriented to look anywhere, while the minor ones were fixed in one place and so they could only be used to look in one direction. They could all be used to communicate with other stones, though. The Ithil stone was a minor stone, so it would only work as a spyglass of sorts when oriented in the correct direction. Sauron mainly seemed to use it to gently caress with users of the other stones, though this wasn't really mind control. He'd just show them misleading images. The stones couldn't be made to lie. He mainly used the stones to show Saruman and Denethor his huge armies and what he intended to do with Middle Earth and this caused them to lose all hope.
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Aug 1, 2018 07:35
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ok, I'm STILL trying to infiltrate the fortress in Seregost a week later, something is seriously screwy with the chances. I've lost all my best orcs trying to infiltrate that fortress via pit fight. All my guys lose to ranged guys, the weakest orcs, so I can't even recruit the winner because he's worthless except for that one fight. I swear these fights are scripted. My guy was an olog with no weaknesses and 3 immunities and had 6 levels over his opponent and still lost. Pit fights are completely broken right now.
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Aug 2, 2018 00:44
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Viridiant posted:
Which was a pretty good use of them. As this lost the forces of good two powerful allies. Like had Saruman not been corrupted then a good chunk of the books would not have happened, and if Denethor had not been driven to madness, he likely would have done things like sending aid to Rohan.
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Aug 2, 2018 03:56
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The most frustrating loving part of this game is by far the janky controls when there's more than one thing around you (so like, always). I wanted to dominate a kick-rear end slayer from the fight pits, who was of course fighting other poo poo in my base. I got him broken, but I couldn't actually loving get him before he was killed because every one of the 5 loving times I went to dominate him it would instead grab one of his posse, one of my minions who were around him, or just decide I wasn't looking at just the right angle and not loving do anything. He ended up dying from all my mooks throwing poo poo at him while I was jamming a button. Yes game, I want to drain the random idiot ally near me not the broken loving captain who's coming to beat my rear end. loving hell. Fake Edit: I feel slightly better.
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Aug 2, 2018 07:01
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Hakarne posted:The most frustrating loving part of this game is by far the janky controls when there's more than one thing around you (so like, always). I wanted to dominate a kick-rear end slayer from the fight pits, who was of course fighting other poo poo in my base. I got him broken, but I couldn't actually loving get him before he was killed because every one of the 5 loving times I went to dominate him it would instead grab one of his posse, one of my minions who were around him, or just decide I wasn't looking at just the right angle and not loving do anything. He ended up dying from all my mooks throwing poo poo at him while I was jamming a button. Yes game, I want to drain the random idiot ally near me not the broken loving captain who's coming to beat my rear end. loving hell. The might Dominate skill plus the multitarget addon really helps you course correct when the game decides to be silly about its target choices (which is almost always).
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Aug 2, 2018 15:31
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TooManyUzukis posted:The might Dominate skill plus the multitarget addon really helps you course correct when the game decides to be silly about its target choices (which is almost always). Then it'll just start by targeting random Ologs around you instead and wasting your might, and if you get the Olog Drain addon then it'll start targeting Olog captains that are at full health instead. The auto-targeting in SoW is literally the worst part of it's gameplay and will screw you over all the time. The best ways to counteract the poo poo targeting I found during my Gravewalker playthrough was to prioritize using Shadow Dominate or Shadow Pull + Ground Drain and if I really had to use manual drain or Consume then I'd to into bow mode and aim at them with a bow first, which seems to help most of the time (although that might just be placebo).
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Aug 2, 2018 15:38
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The "definitive" edition with all the DLC etc is coming on August 28th, but there's nothing else new in there tho and i imagine everyone reading this thread these days has the game so this is p much non news.
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Aug 2, 2018 16:19
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I know this game has a really stupid story, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't still like it. There's just something inherently powerful about the idea of a guy willingly accepting damnation, knowing full well that it can only possibly end one way, in exchange for giving everyone else a shot. A lot of people consider Talion painfully generic, and I suppose he is, but damnit, the guy is my kind of generic.
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Aug 4, 2018 01:33
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I unironically like a big chunk of the story cause it did bold things with Tolkien and I respect that.
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Aug 4, 2018 01:36
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For all it's fanfiction quality, I do appreciate that the story keeps the tolkien theme that if you try to use the tools and weapons of Evil to prevail against it, you'll just end up becoming a tool of Evil yourself.
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Aug 4, 2018 01:40
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To me the dope poo poo is Shelob getting an active role, giving names to the ringwraiths and not wussing out on who they are, and talions self secrifice to become one. The more geneic story beats are whatever but I'm replaying it now and it's keeping me interested. It's also hilarious that they give a reason for Eye Sauron.
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Aug 4, 2018 01:57
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Yeah I actually appreciate how while the game bends the lore it never really breaks it overtly (well, maybe messing with the timeline on when Minas Ithil fell) and even the most ridiculous poo poo is a drop in the bucket compared to how insane the Silmarillion gets at times.
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Aug 4, 2018 02:29
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I wanna fight Gandalf in the next game.
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Aug 4, 2018 02:31
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Just make this the Assassin's Creed of Lord of the Rings poo poo where you're just inexplicably buddies with all these important folks Though if you're gonna skip one please take my suggestion and throw Gollum in the nearest dumpster
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Aug 4, 2018 02:49
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The movies ruined Gollum.
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Aug 4, 2018 02:51
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HebrewMagic posted:Just make this the Assassin's Creed of Lord of the Rings poo poo where you're just inexplicably buddies with all these important folks The nemesis system but you're in Hobbiton and all the procedurally generated enemies are just distant relatives or neighbors trying to steal your silverware and other goods
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Aug 4, 2018 03:10
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