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Breaking a nearly ten-year lurker streak on these forums to thank ProfessorProf and those following for these threads. I got into Umineko at about the time only EP3 was released in English, and obsessively followed it until the end, so this has brought a lot of good memories back for me. 
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Jun 21, 2017 13:40
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It's funny you guys are talking about what a dick Van Dine was known to be, because back in the heydey when we had months to speculate over that portrait, some people managed to suss out it was "Wizard-Hunting Wright" - so naturally, everyone expected him to be the biggest dick we'd seen so far in the series. His actual character as demonstrated in this updated ended up being, uh, a bit of a surprise! That being said, Will is definitely my second favorite character, after the culprit (who has no competition). Looking forward to the rest!
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Jul 4, 2017 18:02
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havenwaters posted:Wizard-Hunting Wright was mentioned in a tip an episode or two ago and then there's the anchor necklace on the portrait which made people think about ships and SS Van Dine. There was also his gold eye color, and I believe the only other character who has gold eyes in the series is Dlanor. Dlanor also has a key emblem on her hat, and Will's anchor necklace has a key incorporated into the design.  But again, back then we had months to speculate on that portrait instead of a couple of days.
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Jul 5, 2017 04:19
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EagerSleeper posted:I knew about 'Yasu did it' being a meme due to the Dangan Ronpa lp, but I didn't know if R07 knew that having the 'butler did it' was a cliche for Western audiences. Probably, now that I think about it since characters like Sherlock Holmes and Agatha Christie's Poirot are well known. Yasu in this game is a double cliche. Triple cliche if being the secret heir to the fortune counts. I'm sure that there's ground for a quadruple. Yasu can be described as a collection of tropes in general (childhood marriage promise woes being the most egregious) that I usually find incredible uninteresting or off-putting, but Ryukishi managed to make it so that, instead, Yasu is more or less my favorite fictional character of all time. Go figure.
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Sep 10, 2017 05:42
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Dr Pepper posted:You want the rest of the info on this? Go back and re-read the episodes. EP7 has always been interesting to me in that it's not so much a traditional answer session as a translation guide--providing you with an easy, tutorial-level way to understand the way Yasu filters the events around her into fantasy. It gives you that reference, and simultaneously hands you a few crucial keys - and trusts you go to back and unlock the meat of things yourself. It really is a journey to understand a person full of human contradictions and confusion, but that journey is a large part of why Yasu is my Favorite Character Ever.
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Sep 17, 2017 02:13
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ZiegeDame posted:Warning: this post is about to get a bit personal, for the benefit of resurgam's understanding. ZD, there are potentially irl people here who have either lost a loved one to suicide or are in a situation where they are personally struggling with suicidal feelings, and maybe consider that these kind of statements could do actual harm to them. It's okay if Yasu's situation doesn't resonate with you personally or you don't sympathize with her, but I think that wide application onto her feelings and response to them isn't really appropriate to express here.
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Sep 19, 2017 17:52
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ZiegeDame posted:But to clarify, when I'm talking about getting a happy ending, I'm in particular referring to the interaction between Clair and Lion when Lion's existence is essentially Yasu saying "if only [thing outside my control] had been different, I would have been happy." Which is a position the story itself (via Bern) immediately refutes. I actually largely agree with your evaluation of the roles Yasu's personas have, but this bit in particular I'd like to ask: Do you feel like you fully understand why Yasu feels Lion specifically is their only avenue to happiness?
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Sep 19, 2017 19:29
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Honestly, the introduction of Lion to this story just feels like a distraction. They may share a common body across the timelines, but Lion and Yasu are two very different people. Lion's existence and the circumstances that allow them to exist is a hugely important clue to Yasu's situation, mindset, and why they feel that suicide is potentially the only way out.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:13
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Are you saying this as a witch? No, it's based on this:  and clues regarding it that are contained within the other episodes.
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Sep 20, 2017 03:25
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:I'm not seeing why this requires Lion, to be honest. I'm probably just slow. The single opportunity Yasu identifies as her ability to live a happy life depends on not being inflicted with this injury. Her dream world is not a fantasy where Battler remembers his promise and comes back to her, or a world where she is happily adopted and has a family, or a world where she is able to marry George without any internal conflicts, or one where she never finds out about Kinzo, or any other possibilities. As far as Yasu is concerned, this is the point that dooms her, regardless of everything that came afterwards. To Yasu--and emphasized by the narration--Lion's specific circumstances truly were her one chance. You can agree or disagree once you understand what she's talking about, but it's important to understand exactly why she feels that way.
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Sep 20, 2017 04:00
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ZiegeDame posted:I'm also trying to think of fall-related injuries that would lead to this, and I can only come to the conclusion Nanjo did some incredibly unethical and unnecessary surgery. (I'm thinking about a semi-famous story involving a botched circumcision and a grossly unethical psychiatrist, but names are escaping me.) The Man From Nineteen Years Ago posted:"...I won't appear in front of anyone until you introduce me. Don't worry. Oh yeah, it's useless to try and search for me. Your mansion is huge. You even have a phone system in it. And I'm sure you don't want to meet me, right? Or else, do you want to expose me and introduce me to everyone...? Introduce me to Jessica too. Tell her I'm her older brother by one year. Heheheheheheheheheheheheheheh!!" idonotlikepeas posted:I took "a body incapable of love" to mean just physical love. You can imagine the idea of having injuries so severe that standard physical intercourse is impossible for a variety of reasons. Keep in mind what this implies for Yasu's relationship with George, who talks about wanting children more than once. Obviously that's not the entire universe of love, but a) we're not talking about a person viewing the universe with a dispassionate, rational eye and b) it's still a pretty drat big hurdle to overcome if it has happened to you. quote:
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Sep 20, 2017 05:11
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ZiegeDame posted:Probably safe to blame that rant on Kinzo. The rant is literally about how George will stop loving her once any sexual contact is initiated and he sees her form as a "maggot."
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Sep 20, 2017 05:44
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PetraCore posted:I just, uh, realized. My go-to indication as for Kinzo's feelings about his family is always pointing out that the blast radius for the bomb is design to exclude Kuwadorian. Beatrice must stay safe, but everyone else? Ehhhhhh.
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Sep 20, 2017 06:44
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What a good post! I would like to add that, something interesting to think about is how we know the first two episodes are the only ones personally penned by Yasu. The rest are by Hachijo. As important as Battler and Kinzo's sins are, they're not the focus of the episodes that we know to be penned by Yasu. What is she chiefly concerned about? Driving home, practically ad nauseum, the question and agony of being "furniture" and its inability to love. Raelle fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 07:53
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Graylien posted:David Reimer, and honestly, that, and this; A lot of Yasu's nitty gritty gender identity stuff is up for interpretation and I think the way you're leaning could certainly be perfectly legitimate. I default to female pronouns, but I primarily view Yasu's gender as Really Complicated, and Kanon as Extremely Important in the map of it. In addition to what you're saying, Yasu's obvious attraction towards men would have been even more deeply confusing as they were trying to navigate this.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:20
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I think you can have the various readings of Yasu/Lion's specific One True Gender Identity (I certainly have mine--I read Lion as male, and that informing Yasu heavily), but the key thing here is understanding the horrific nature and sheer violation of the situation she was thrown in and how it impacted the way she viewed her relationships and herself. This is not something she was given an opportunity to work through in any healthy capacity, and in terms of her suicidal feelings, what the furniture issue really informs is that the roulette and her plan was not simply a matter of choosing which persona to align with, or which relationship to pursue. It's about understanding that from Yasu's perspective, from the beginning, all of them are fundamentally impossible and doomed to fail, no matter what she chooses. The only way ANY of her relationships can be "real" is under the veil of fantasy magic. Anything George and Shannon have is going to go down in flames when George realizes that Shannon is "really a man." (Not necessarily true, but that's filtered through Yasu's terror and self-loathing.) He will hate her and be disgusted by her. The same with Jessica - how can she ever ask Jessica to reconcile that Kanon, the boy she likes, grew up as her female best friend Shannon, and yes, "lacks the ability to love" and all those connotations? Even if she leaves the island, how could she ask anyone--whether she presents as a man or a woman--to have a successful, healthy relationship with her? Yes, there are potentially ways for a person in Yasu's situation to find a measure of happiness, but keep in mind that this is 1980s Japan, and Yasu would have grown up with absolutely no awareness of any of those options or resources she would have needed. The catbox is a way for Yasu to ensure that Shannon, fundamentally, is never exposed to have been a lie from the very beginning. If they all die and go to the Golden Land, leaving no bodies behind, no one can see the truth behind Shannon and Kanon, and they will become as "real" as they are able to be. This agony is reflected in that EP2 rant - you may initially think it's about Kinzo and men, but it's fundamentally about how Yasu sees herself. Disgusting furniture scrap, filthy maggot, someone who could never be loved once someone sees her true form. And this is all before getting into the awful, messy business of Yasu sorting out what she could be to herself, and what was stolen from her in the coercive reassignment. This is why it's so important to understand the true nature of "furniture" and how it informs Yasu's motives. As I alluded to before, there's a reason why this element is the one the episodes penned by Yasu personally is the one obsessed over, far beyond any other, in the scope of her motive and emotions. Raelle fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 20:59
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I would like to make more of an effortpost about this later, as Yasu identity discussion (especially in relation to Kanon, who is incredibly important) is very Relevant To My Interests, but for now: Speaking for myself, even though I would probably say that if Yasu has an inherent gender identity beyond any outside influences, it leans male - I tend to use "she." Largely because there is a choice we see her making in the EP6 love duel, to align herself with her female identity. In many ways you can point out that it's a heavily incomplete or flawed choice because it's one she made largely based on the wants and needs of her romances, rather than her personal identity, it was still the one she made. In EP7, when Will is touching on the gender issue, he remarks that in every episode except EP5, an aberration, the character is regarded in the narrative as female. The author, Ryukishi, has referred to the character as "a girl" in interviews and such. I mean, there are plenty of flaws you can bring up with those points of reasoning as well, not the least being that we have no idea how informed Ryukishi is on the complexity of gender issues - so if that's not enough of a justification for anyone, I completely understand. Honestly, "they" is probably the most correct term, authorial intention aside, but those are the reference points I use, anyway. Edit: quote:EDIT: I was about to ask how bad Yasu's sex education was for them to not realize their genitalia was off, if cosmetic surgery was kept to a minimum, but it's not uncommon for female-bodied people to have no idea what their own genitalia looks like without a mirror, due to the angles involves. If Yasu never had to change in a communal room like a school lockerroom, they'd have no reason to suspect there was anything wrong down there. One of the more cynical reasons you can assign to Genji giving Yasu her own room as a servant, for sure. Raelle fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 04:22
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Ange in EP4 recounts how Eva had her physically beaten, and often punished her arbitrarily just because she was in a bad mood, so I'm not really happy to get on the Eva Apologism Train, myself. EDIT: EP4 posted:The moment I grabbed at my head, my scalp was kicked by someone at a bad angle, and my head was filled with stars... The feeling of stars flickering in this gray, twisted world...was one I remembered clearly. Raelle fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 8, 2017 03:26
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Ytlaya posted:Also, there's a reason why it was specifically mentioned that George and Shannon slept in different rooms during their date at the aquarium; if they hadn't it would have been a Big Deal because he would have discovered the situation with her body. EP6 posted:
Even without the manga's additions, the idea that Yasu's injury comes down to brain damage or simply her own perception of herself doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. I honestly think it is vital to understanding Yasu and her story to grasp that when she says she has a body "incapable of love", it is deadly serious and she is probably not entirely wrong about the impact it has on her succeeding in any of her relationships. It's not an issue she can just overcome with positive thinking or self-love or anything like that. That makes the exploration of her problems and how she expresses them extremely difficult in many ways, but also extremely important.
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Oct 14, 2017 23:23
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"That dream future that George-sama has imagined for you two... is something you can never give him."
"W, well..."
"...We aren't humans. We're furniture, inferior to them. George-sama only thinks that you're human."
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Fates End posted:The 'they' in question is actually a witch here in witchchat! They haven't visited in a little while, though. Hello, I am here! And am responsible for the bad YGO jokes! It's very flattering that people still read and link to Goats Reading Seacats; be warned it never started as a serious project and was mostly a silly vehicle to cry about Yasu and vent about how no one appreciated her character. Blush blush cringe.
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Dec 1, 2017 02:13
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