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oath2order posted:Who was the one suggesting Krauss was the brilliant mastermind behind these crimes, again? Moon tourism is the future, mark my words.
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Mar 20, 2017 15:09
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Yeah, the problem isn't so much that Krauss has bad ideas, it's that he refuses to commit to those ideas that have potential when, instead, he could help this Entirely Trustworthy Nigerian Prince and get double or triple the returns.
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Mar 20, 2017 17:39
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CottonWolf posted:All passages are secret until they aren't. I think they count! I think the definition of "secret passage" is meant to be "a hidden passageway concealed by a false wall or other non-obvious entrance". Something that A Watson wouldn't be able to spot before it was opened. Knox also notes that they should only be used if the setting makes sense for them, citing that exhorbitant construction costs and public interest would make secret passages in most murder settings unfeasible. (Un?)Fortunately, Kinzo had the perfect combination of "a shitton of money", "a huge undeveloped island all to himself" and "enough crazy to want weird poo poo built", so the concept of a secret passage, by and of itself, doesn't break the rule. Having them all over the place as solutions to closed rooms would Just Not Do, however.
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Mar 23, 2017 00:09
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oath2order posted:So, put simply; because magic is real, Knox's Second isn't broken, because the story isn't a mystery in the first place. Unless magic isn't real, in which case the Red Truth is akin to unbiased narration outside of a point of view, and Knox's Second isn't broken because it's not actually something that exists any more than lightsabers and goat-kuns exist. Except those exist because magic actually is real. 
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Mar 23, 2017 06:58
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oath2order posted:As an aside, Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni utterly breaks Knox's Rules. Off hand I think it violates like 5 directly. Some are to it'so detriment as a mystery, while others are really quite ingenious. I'm not at all convinced Higurashi was ever meant to even resemble a fair mystery, though; it reads much more as a psychological horror/thriller compared to this. I hear this as being part of the reason DEEN botched the Umineko anime so horribly, for what it's worth; while the off-model animation would always be there no matter what it was, the tone of everything feels like they thought it was a direct spiritual successor to Higurashi - which is to say, heavy on the horror and mental breakdowns - as opposed to its own beast.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:04
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ProfessorProf posted:Technically, if you listen to the Japanese dialogue, she says "Start, Cleanup, Draw", which doesn't quite match Japanese M:TG terminology or Yugioh terminology, so either it's a generic card games reference or a reference to a card game I don't know about. Well, it's all accurate M:tG terms, just in the wrong order - Cleanup isn't the Upkeep phase, it's the Ending phase  It's entirely possible to have flubbed it if you were trying to use English M:tG terminology but also mixed up the phases. Sort of like how "THE WORLD IS A gently caress" is technically coherent English, just nonsensical in being such.
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Mar 24, 2017 20:14
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lookw posted:Thats because one of the main characters in Higurashi is Furude Rika so the author just slightly Westernized the name and inserted her into the story. Rika and Erika are similar but not the "same" person in this game. So yes Bern is just being an rear end in a top hat. Kudos to whoever called "my original character Fernkastel", you were almost right. 
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Mar 25, 2017 17:31
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idonotlikepeas posted:(Speaking of, what is the deal with Dlanor's speech pattern? Is it a translation thing?) Yeah, it is. It's consistent with the other uses of brackets and caps we've seen in the game, though - Dlanor ends all of her sentences in katakana, and randomly intersperses English words into her speech. Notably, for those who haven't seen the video, the breakdown (build up?) at the end is a natural progression of a string of sentences ending in "desu" which, well, is a homophone for the Japanese pronunciation of the English word "death". So it's a loop of desudesudesudesudesudesudesu<DIE THE DEATH>. <SENTENCE TO DEATH>. <GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH>. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Apr 6, 2017 |
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Apr 6, 2017 19:13
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idonotlikepeas posted:We, as the audience, know that Kinzo is dead and witches aren't real, but Erika is so annoying that we're okay with Battler putting one over on her this time. Plus, this is honestly just Bern and Lambda writing collab fanfic that Meta Battler's being forced to reread through to catch up. Lambda's just simultaneously pushing a ship while dunking on Erika.
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Apr 7, 2017 23:33
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Fabulousvillain posted:Beato and Lambda: You can't be a cruel witch all the time. Beato: I taught a little girl that happiness at home starts with happy actions. Lambda: I encourage people to stay determined and fight for what they want. Bern: witches y'all suck, i'mma go tell this orphan that if she accepts love and happiness in her life her dead family will disappear forever
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Apr 9, 2017 04:19
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ZiegeDame posted:Father Knox The vaguely contradictory combination of the decalogue and the red text, yes. Erika is the detective, and according to Knox, not only can the detective not be a culprit, but any clues they discover must be presented for the reader. The one point of contention on the reliability of her scenes is whether or not she actually spent all night listening to Battler breathing, and if so, why we didn't know about that before hand.  BurningStone posted:And now Erika is running around the real world doing utterly bizarre things that nobody would ever do - and to absolutely no point. None of her actions matter, because it's only the red text that matters. If you want to solve the mystery/show Natsuhi's innocence, you look at the red text and completely ignore Erika. Bernkastel is a godmoding metagamer and uses Erika as little more than a direct mouthpiece, in other words.  So, you know. Nothing we didn't know before now.
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Apr 16, 2017 |
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Apr 16, 2017 10:53
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Cyouni posted:Bernkastel, the Witch of Miracles aka "Miracles don't exist and I will poo poo on you for even thinking that they might". One in a million odds mean that for every time you succeed, there are 999,999 fragments where you failed miserably.
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Apr 17, 2017 01:38
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ProfessorProf posted:It's worth keeping in mind that mysteries are much easier to solve in four weeks as a 20-person team than they are to solve in four hours as a solitary dude whose family is being murdered in front of him repeatedly. And whose murders get rubbed in his face in particular repeatedly. Bern brought up Ange because she knew exactly the reaction he'd give just based on his actions throughout the end of Ep 4 and beginning of Ep 5 - as he's shown in this episode alone, he's surprisingly competent when he's not letting his emotions control him. Bern's playing a mean game explicitly because she knows she can totally defang him if he's running on tilt.
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Apr 17, 2017 19:52
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Tender Child Loins posted:Then how did Natsuhi enter the guesthouse without being noticed? I feel like the circumstantial evidence against her only applies if she is a literal ninja. It is well-documented that ninjutsu does not count as real magic.
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Apr 17, 2017 22:52
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Tired Moritz posted:If we accept magic is real, that means everyone is innocent and what's wrong with that? On the contrary; if we accept magic is real, then we also accept that some people - or witches - can use magic for foul ends, such as murder. That's why Dlanor is here, after all, to punish the people who would do just that.
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Apr 18, 2017 02:38
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resurgam40 posted:*And apologies especially to EagerSleeper for my language. Was it the C-word that did it? I can't speak for other goons, but personally that was where the line was crossed into "woah there friend, you might need to slow down". I am all for getting emotionally invested in a story, but not to the point of it being a detriment to your health and sanity. When otherwise cordial folk start cussing like drunken sailors who've just been kicked in the jimmies by an angry mule, then it's pretty clear a breath needs to be taken. However, resurgam40 posted:Am I really not allowed to get angry at this? I don't think anyone's said not to get angry; it's just that lashing out with that anger doesn't really help anyone, as Battler himself has shown many a time.
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Apr 18, 2017 15:57
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CottonWolf posted:Just to add to this, any red is still objectively true, human or witch side, it's just not admissible unless you're a witch. Because witches are horrible cheaters. Yeah. If the truth isn't valid, it flat out can't be said as proven in ep 4 with the semantics between valid red Ushiromiya Battler is Ushiromiya Asumu's son versus invalid red truth "Ushiromiya Battler was born from Ushiromiya Asumu". Battler said it without any problems; it is still true. It wasn't accepted because the trial is entirely rigged to implicate Natsuhi, who was already seen as guilty until proven innocent. EDIT: Well that sure was an update. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Apr 19, 2017 |
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Apr 19, 2017 13:44
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resurgam40 posted:"I am the cruelest witch"... every time, I think that we have reached the end of Berne's cruelty, and every time she gleefully proves me wrong. It is difficult coming into this with Higurashi fresh in my mind, to see somebody wearing the face of my favorite character to be so monstrous... So I suppose it is worth remembering that Berne isn't that character, but what they left behind- the experiences that they left behind in order to remain the precocious prankster I remember. And what remained... was pain unending. Pain with no release, no prerogative... except to replicate itself in others. Abuse begets abuse. And who was more abused than Bern's progenitor? Bern was the past she left behind. Likewise, Lambda is the conviction that pushed Beatrice (and assumedly, Takano) to commit unspeakable acts in the name of personal goals. They're both incredibly cruel witches, but in different ways.
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Apr 20, 2017 19:15
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RedMagus posted:this makes a lot of sense. his Charisma is much higher than his Intelligence. Now now, his INT is fine. It's his WIS he used as a dump stat.
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Apr 22, 2017 19:25
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CJBurgandy posted:Is it just me, or does a chunk of the post seem to be missing? I don't get how it went from "no one was dead" to talking about Kinzo. I don't see any theory from Erika about Kinzo moving the bodies. Or are they referring to something in another post that I'm forgetting about? Tired Moritz posted:the jump from the time of the murders to kinzo being dead confused the gently caress out of me oblongmeow posted:Erika's end of chapter wrap up was the theory that Natsuhi was working together with Kinzo whom she had seduced, and it was him who had moved the bodies since everyone else had alibis at the time having started moving together as a pack. Obviously it was pretty dumb to build her entire theory requiring the help of a man she thought was dead, but that's just the Erika experience, and that's what team Battler is refuting here. That led into what was a discussion that can be boiled down to, roughly, such: "So you mean to tell me that none of the people we thought were dead are actually dead?" "Well, the one you tried to write in as a creepy old lover? Yeah, he's totally dead. But nobody else."
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Apr 23, 2017 17:20
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Tender Child Loins posted:the kawaii personification of the concept of sadness Sakutaro's been in the series since Episode 4, though.
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Apr 24, 2017 21:58
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Neopie posted:Are you sure because there's some real bad sprites later on. Improvement as an artist isn't always linear. At the same time, Umineko EP1 is miles ahead of Higurashi, and Umineko EP5 is noticably improved over EP1. At their worst, Ryukishi Umineko sprites still hover somewhere around "laughably/memetically bad" like Fat George and some of the more hilarious witchfaces.
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Apr 25, 2017 01:36
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resurgam40 posted:... And once again, the notion rises in me that I am meant to enjoy the things I'm reading; to find the degradations and tortures of Battler Ushiromiya to be the highest of high comedy somehow. Battler fucks up again, uproarious laughter, applause, cue wacky theme. I do feel like the cold open of Ep 6 comes on a little too strong for exactly the reason you pointed out - instead of wanting to figure out what started this and see Erika given the trouncing she deserves, you instead just get incredibly tired of Battler loving up for the third game in a row. (Or sixth, depending on how you define "loving up".) I do feel safe in saying one thing: this is not meant to be comedic, except in that cynical, satirical manner of the darkest of black humor. You're not meant to enjoy this scene. Unfortunately, having all of this brought to you rapidfire through a LP (instead of spread out over the course of years via Comiket releases) means you get worn down by incompetence a whole lot faster, leading to fatigue instead of indignation.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:39
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ZiegeDame posted:Also, I think trying to deny the existence of the meta-world is pointless, because Bern and Lambda show Higurashi is canon, and magic is 100% real in Higurashi. It's canon in the same way all of the prior episodes are canon. I think Bern and Lambda referred to it as a separate fragment even as early as their first introduction, meaning it's an entirely different parallel universe. That's not to say there's no Hinamizawa in Umineko, but it's only relevant as the origin/earlier games of Lambda and Bern...who, if you take magic as fake, are not real either. In other words, Hinamizawa's relevance is a catbox within the catbox - it's only canon if you believe Bern and Lambda are real. "Magic is real only if magic is real" is a hell of a tautology.
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Apr 29, 2017 21:27
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ZiegeDame posted:Basically I'm just saying take some Everett with your Schrodinger. Or, they are 5+-dimensional beings that cannot meaningfully interact with our 4-dimensional world. It's not Fantasy, it's Sci-Fi Clark's 3rd; Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic! But nah, all I was saying is that Higurashi exists but "not here". Unless you're the Umineko anime, in which case Higurashi was totally what Maria was watching on TV in Ep1.
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Apr 29, 2017 22:01
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In other words, Erika posts on FYAD.
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May 13, 2017 03:42
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Robindaybird posted:It's sad there's a part of her still desperate that the guy who conned her will return, especially given the massive amount of bullying and abuse she experienced as a kid - she's so starved for affection that she's easy prey for a con man and still holding out the hope that it's not a lie. It's a well documented fact that victims of abuse tend to either become abusive themselves or seek out the "familiarity" of other abusive relationships. Rosa just doubled down.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:18
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BurningStone posted:A post a little bit ago said something about liking the characters. Uh, no. Would you want to spend a weekend with the Ushiromiyas? Or go to a witches' tea party? The author does an excellent job of making unpleasant characters understandable, but they're still unpleasant. A good character does not have to be a good person. The adult Ushiromiyas are terrible people, the worst kind of broken, and from the way Ange acts, it's possible that the kids would have inherited that, too. Witches live on a different layer of reality where magic is tangible and "the Golden Land" isn't a euphemism, but an actual paradise, and take explicit glee in their basic immortality and the visceral brutality of being able to dismantle people like meat puppets. Nobody in their right mind would want to be chummy with any of these characters (save potentially the kids, and the servants) in real life, but that doesn't mean they cant like them as characters; they're compelling to read about. Yes, even Erika, the Best Detective. It's easy to solve a murder when you're the culprit. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jun 19, 2017 |
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Jun 19, 2017 20:43
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Because he's a self aggrandizing bore who doesn't know when to end a tall tale about his early career. So it was a murderous katuna? Perhaps a die-katuna? I didn't know this was the Uranium LP.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:48
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Clearly Kumasaba couldn't take another meeting with him revising his personal mythology, so she killed him with a katuna. (nb. I've already forgotten the murder method.)
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ZiegeDame posted:Time has stopped How many closed rooms can you escape in the stopped time, Battler?
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Jun 28, 2017 00:01
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oath2order posted:Man, I'm excited to get to Episode 7. Episode 6 is...honestly kind of a mess? Like, most of Umineko feels fairly ironclad in its plotting, and a ton of things fall into place in retrospect. Episode 6 kinda stays a mess. I think this, more than the singularity of the Closed Room Logic Error, speaks of Battler's severe incompetence. When he tries to make a game, the entire thing is a narrative clusterfuck even on a meta layer.
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Jul 3, 2017 23:31
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ZiegeDame posted:to assume that someone involved in the chain doesn't know how to spell Leon It's a long I. Li-on, not lai-on. It's not traditional for English speakers, but it fits Japanese vowel phonemes.
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Jul 5, 2017 18:42
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7 Weights is a good song, probably my favorite in the series. It's not as hyped as some of the battle songs, but nothing else in the game captures that same ambient dread of "something rotten in Denmark".
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Jul 7, 2017 18:55
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BurningStone posted:I'm not even sure what you'd call the main plot. I believe Ryukishi's own words were "anti-fantasy vs anti-mystery". In other words, metafiction. In this case, exploring a mass-murder incident in realistic whodunnit terms (anti-fantasy) while the narration tries its best to obfuscate it with metaphor and impossibilities and parallel timelines (anti-mystery).
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Jul 9, 2017 05:55
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I had been a bit reductionary because, whether it's a product of the translation or R07's actual tone, that entire passage sounds amazingly  and "my work isn't for you, pleb".Which kind of gels with how Featherine acted last episode, I suppose.
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Jul 10, 2017 09:42
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witchcore ricepunk posted:Refresh my memory about where that red statement came from? It was during the segment where some character I've forgotten about bullies a small child. Right near the beginning of the last Episode.
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Jul 15, 2017 01:32
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rko posted:Sure! Someone in #witchchat pointed out that it's kind of a prototype for Umineko, but it's definitely worth a look. Unlike this VN, Higurashi actually has a passable anime, too, though the manga adaptation is much more faithful. It's worth noting that unlike Umineko, there's no smoke and mirrors deployed - poo poo gets supernatural. Much like Umineko, though, it also lacks its back half on Steam, though there are (to my knowledge) official translations of the second set of VNs. Like stated, though, aside from Quality DEEN Animation, Higurashi's anime isn't too harsh of a diversion from the source material. It's definitely an option if you don't want to sit through a manga or VN dumping  at you.
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Jul 30, 2017 11:42
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EDIT: I think I misread something and jumped a gun?
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Aug 11, 2017 |
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Aug 11, 2017 16:42
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ZiegeDame posted:Possibly also that, while I understand the concept on an intellectual level, I have no first-hand experience with the idea of being a different person in different situations, or however you want to put it. Ever roleplayed? It's like that, just taken to an unhealthy coping-mechanism degree. In a modern-day American AU, Mariage Sorciere would be a weekly (or monthly, or whatever) D&D group Maria and Yasu have together. And if that bubble is popped, well... there's a Jack Chick tract about that.
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Aug 31, 2017 22:40
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idonotlikepeas posted:Dlanor would be upset, but the original set of rules allowed for exactly one hidden passage, if the ground were properly prepared. I think the story has earned this one. Yeah, in particular the expanded version of the Decalogue goes into detail to say that a hidden passage would be pointlessly expensive to construct and would raise a hell of a lot of interest from the locals. Except in this case, Kinzo had a bunch of fascist gold and an abandoned naval base island all to himself. If the psycho wanted a secret passage or even a secret mansion, the only thing that would actually stop him is the family he made especially sure to keep a far, far distance away from himself and his creepy lusts.
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Sep 5, 2017 01:49
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