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Zakrelo posted:Even if Maria locks the door once the killing is done(and that's how the killer was able to get in), who shot the 3? The red truths "Maria, who was in the same room, did not kill them! And of course, their three deaths were homicides!" and "I guarantee the identities of all unidentified corpses. Therefore, there were no body double tricks!" seem to imply it couldn't have been a dead person faking it, and it wasn't say Genji shooting the other two and then himself. Battler's 3-way simultaneous murder theory almost checks out besides being insane and motiveless, but it would mean it's a "real" closed room which contradicts what Will said. ZiegeDame posted:Shannon's corpse was never there, it was an illusion. Hideyoshi lied, we've been over this one a ton. Shannon faked her own death, which more or less gave her free agency to do whatever she wanted in the background as "Beatrice". Maria, already well aware of Beatrice, went along with this. (Shannon was also an identified corpse. Her identity was not explicitly, by the nature of the red, guaranteed.) e:f;b
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Sep 8, 2017 21:00
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Token Fembot posted:Reading it along with someone who doesn't know what's going on at all is also beautiful, as an aside, though I don't know how y'all in Witchchat even managed with the threads. My partner is coming up with some really insane theories, some of which are actually right, (he somehow called "kinzo is actually long dead" in the middle of Episode 1, just based on him acting completely differently to Natsuhi; I'm so proud of him,) and all I can do is smile mysteriously at them all! It's torture. Really, props to Witchchat for not breaking down long ago, I truly respect your strength. It was by the very existence of witchchat that witchchat could remain sane. It turns out it's a lot easier to not blurt out spoilers when you can just pop open a discord window and scream about how correct/incorrect a reader is about things.
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Sep 10, 2017 02:57
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free Trapt CD posted:Still wondering who sent the gold out to the victims' relatives, as well... Just because someone did not commit a crime does not mean they were not intending to commit a crime. Sayo very likely sent those out before the conference with the intent of carrying out something, even if they did not. After all, the only people other than the servants who would know about the servants' next of kin are Natsuhi and Krauss (presumably), and they most certainly didn't survive this.
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Sep 15, 2017 15:41
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Kytrarewn posted:That is legitimately interesting- I actually hadn't read it, but had assumed that the bonuses would all be like the Valentine's one and not provide that much plot-important context for "real" characters. tiistai posted:Oh, remember this TIP? ZiegeDame posted:It also covers using a wheelbarrow to move that frozen corpse to the furnace. The bonus TIPs and the like aren't always allegory (the Valentines/White Day ones are basically just fanservice with a few Telling Character Moments) but a lot of them actually hold a bit more meaning than you'd expect. EDIT: clarified because yeah, everything has SOME meaning. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 19:59
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Looking at Ep 1 as a story Yasu penned while plotting the real deal, it's almost hilarious how much of it in the end is author favoritism shining through. All the kids survive, Natsuhi gets to be shot in the face with a gun at point blank, everyone still "Witches exist." No, Battler, that's not what Beatrice really wants you to say. Acknowledge Beatrice. Tell Yasu you acknowledge them, that they exist.
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Sep 18, 2017 20:53
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ZiegeDame posted:Unrelated, incompetence must run in the family, because Jessica practically lived with someone for 10 years, but they put on a wig and men's clothes and she can't recognize them at all. "He's my brother, that's why we look so similar." "That makes sense and I will refuse to question it an iota further" I mean, I think it's hinted pretty strongly that Jessica is a little... for lack of a better term oblivious. Her grandfather has been AWOL and/or rotting in the freezer for two years and she hasn't so much as questioned it once. Regardless, though, Kanon and Shannon were "related", so looking that strikingly similar isn't too surprising.
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Sep 18, 2017 21:26
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Dr Pepper posted:It can not be understated how much Nanjo had it coming. It's one thing to be Kinzo. It's another thing entirely to look at Kinzo, nod, and say "this is an acceptable and appropriate way to act and you should really look at it from his point of view". Nanjo did the latter at every single point in the backstory.
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Sep 19, 2017 02:06
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Look LOOK look okay let's talk about 'ships. Hear me out: The NieR: Automata thread is a few pages over. 
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Sep 19, 2017 02:29
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tiistai posted:I really don't think that's true. Or if it is, he was broken in by none other than himself. As terrible as Kinzo may be, from his perspective at least they've always been friends, not a master and a slave. Just reading between the lines, Genji seems to be a very hard-set traditionalist who might put a little too much stock into the feudal ideal of a Wealthy Lord and His Infallable Retainer. Genji wants very hard to be Jeeves to Kinzo's Wooster, the unflinching servant cleaning up his bumbling sire's messes, to the point of possibly even disregarding Kinzo's thoughts on the matter. (side thought - does Japan have anything as emblematic of that sort of thing as Wodehouse was to Western media? I see magical butlers a lot in anime and similar, but don't know if they stem from the same point) There's very little insight on where Genji came from or what his upbringing was like, but he's very much presented as an enabler of the toxicity as opposed to a product of it, someone who allows things to go unchecked out of a belief that "it will all work out in the end". It didn't work out in the end and by the time Kinzo dies I think he's finally starting to realize that. There's definite remorse there - which is more than Nanjo shows - but honestly he had a lot more power in his hands to change things and didn't.
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Sep 21, 2017 23:14
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The Monty Hall problem continues to cause debates and discourse to this day, even after the namesake has passed on. What is really going on gets into deterministic vs fatalistic probability - "If I learn the negative status of a choice I passed on, does it lower the amount of possible outcomes, or not?", essentially. If you pick choice A over choices B and C, and then learn that Choice C is wrong, does that mean the probability of Choice A being correct is 1/3 or 1/2? For that matter, what is the probability of Choice B being correct in that scenario? Nobody can agree on the answer, and quite often mathematicians that think one way see the people who think the other way as complete imbeciles.
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Oct 2, 2017 21:46
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Idran posted:I studied math, and I honestly don't know what you're referring to here. I've never heard of any sort of ongoing debate in mathematics over the true answer. Maybe I've just spent too long on the internet and not long enough in places with actual face to face discussion, then. 
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Oct 3, 2017 00:43
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Confused Llama posted:Personally, my favorite part of the whole thing is that I was watching the current version of Let's Make a Deal a few months ago, and apparently they no longer offer the opportunity to switch doors, probably because the answer to the problem is now so widely known (if, perhaps, not always understood) among people who are into that sort of thing. Yeah, now instead it's the Deal or No Deal style of "you could ride your choice to the end or we could give you a guaranteed (but much less than the potential payout) cash prize". Which, in thread relevancy, is what Battler is offering. You could know the truth, or you could accept his (obviously faked) explanation that Everyone Was Having A Grand Old Time And Was Happy until, assumedly, everything blows up anyway.
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Oct 3, 2017 04:32
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MonsterEnvy posted:Also it's not really grimdark. No, but that term's been so overused that you can't pin down what someone means when they say they like/dislike it. Do they not like violence and gore? Because Umineko has that. It's been dialed down considerably compared to Higurashi, but it's still there. Is it edgy, melodramatic plots they don't like? If that's the case, then as long as they approach Umineko with the mindset that everything happens as foreshadowing or explanation, they should be fine. It gets heavy, but it never dwells on its own pathos. Do they not like stories with unhappy endings? Because this is a mystery where the end result is known by the end of the first episode: everyone dies. It's hard to say if it's something you'll be able to convince them towards or not.
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Oct 4, 2017 21:53
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PetraCore posted:So it seems Ange doesn't see the post-puzzle scenes? Or does she only see some of them, such as Eva's? I think the assumption is that anything that is said after she has moved on is unseen by her.
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Oct 9, 2017 15:28
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C. Rika. If only the eldest is telling the truth, then any situation where two of the girls are in agreement is wrong. EDIT: I only just now realized this is a Higurashi joke. 
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Oct 17, 2017 |
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Oct 17, 2017 13:42
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ProfessorProf posted:It's a reference to Rika from Higurashi, AKA Bernkastel's former human incarnation. Yeah, Rika, Satoko, and Miyoko are all names from Higurashi. "Nipah" is Rika's mandatory moe vocal tic. Higurashi spoilers: In some ways this is another clue since Rika is absolutely the oldest of the three in Higurashi, given timey-wimey shenanigans. So the trick might be that there is no trick at all.
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Oct 17, 2017 13:56
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dotchan posted:And for me, at least, it's not disrespectful to ask the question "Is this a good (for whatever definition of good) story?" because doing so helps me to become a storyteller in my own right. I feel like there's a specific point of emphasis in the back half of Umineko about the Reader, and how even they shape a work. In this chapter it's synonymous with "narrator", but is it, really?
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Oct 27, 2017 21:20
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Robindaybird posted:And I feel like the railing against the bottle letters is less about the fandom and more about the often rather Ghoulish True Crime genre, where a supposedly nonfiction genre cannot help but insert elaborate fantasies, often at the expense at the victim's and the killer's families. They don't care how their often voyeuristic look at the crime, and borderline libel speculations for unsolved crimes hurt people, just they treat the crime as either a puzzle or a paycheck. This is the important thing here. While I can absolutely see taking it in a metafictional direction by reading it as a comment against any and all speculation or alternate theories, I feel like this is much more "anti-mystery" in general; there is something gruesome and unpleasant about sensationalizing the tragedies of real people, living or dead, and the "True Crime" subgenre of mystery is huge on doing exactly that. Which is why it's maybe for the best that the Ushiromiyas are a fictional family so their pain and suffering exists only in the catbox of a visual novel.
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Nov 3, 2017 22:43
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Fabulousvillain posted:Also in a way it was the answer to everything anyway, seconded. Those bombs are not small in the slightest, that's the beauty of it. If Battler had only thought on a bigger scale...
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Nov 6, 2017 20:44
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Shinji117 posted:the WMGoats (Wild Mass Guessing Goats) I would have also accepted "weapons of mass goat".
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Nov 19, 2017 19:27
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lotus circle posted:Gohda, honestly, has a lot going for him in that he is the only sinless man on this loving island. He just wanted to cook some good rear end food for the people who pay him money to do it. He's kind of a sniveling toadie, but that's just part of actually working for a living in this capitalist society.
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Nov 20, 2017 06:51
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Okay, so Gohda hosed one thing up. 
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Nov 20, 2017 15:18
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Magic and tricks are indistinguishable except by the viewer. That which you can explain is a "trick", that which you cannot or choose not to explain is "magic". They still create improbable or even functionally impossible results. We've had everything here explained, and the magic is only there if we choose to let it be magical. That said, let's go with the Trick ending first.
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Nov 25, 2017 19:17
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ProfessorProf posted:There isn't a "both" button. I know, and that's what makes me a bad witch.  I know my personal choice is that magic is real, and also that I want to see the trick ending first because it's the one I have decided is less real.Basically what the mackerel said, but in reverse.
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Nov 25, 2017 23:17
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ZiegeDame posted:So probably the basic action of that scene is real, but not the specifics. So the real world non-magical version would be Beato gives Battler a boat, Battler says 'nope, you're coming too', once on the water Beato goes 'naw, gonna drown', Battler tries and fails to rescue Beato. With how fundamentally broken Sayo is, and the fact they're aware of what just happened even if Battler isn't, I can't honestly blame them if they felt they couldn't go any further. Even if Battler magically turned into everything they'd hoped and prayed for - like he sort of did, in the scene we saw - what's done is still incredibly done. There's blood on their hands, blood they put there in a desperate plea for recognition. Not saying I approve of it, but I can see the logic behind it. That said, unless we're given proof otherwise, this scene (like all other scenes) is locked within the catbox. No survivors witnessed it.
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Nov 27, 2017 23:59
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Rodyle posted:Apparently, her body was made out of sweet candy, with a bit of spice thrown in. Put your mind at ease, as there is nothing remotely terrifying about this scene. Well, no more terrifying than any scene with Sally from The Nightmare Before Christmas. Also, if witches want to be candy, that's their perogative as witches. It would certainly explain why water makes them melt.
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Nov 28, 2017 22:41
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resurgam40 posted:...What a miracle. The Witch of Certainty, Lambdadelta, only grants her power to those with the willpower necessary to see things through to the end no matter what the cost or circumstance. That's why she appeared for Beatrice, and why it's suggested in TIPS that she appeared for Miyo Takano in Higurashi. Certainty only comes to those who already have the determination to create certain outcomes already. The Witch of Miracles, Bernkastel, is a reaper of hope and happiness, a destroyer of miracles. Not because she hates good and happy things (though she certainly does), but because hinging your hopes on impossible odds and praying for miracles to fix all your problems is hardly different from self-delusional "truth" that is molded to fit a person's specific biases. Miracles only come to those who can survive without them.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:50
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PetraCore posted:I think the emotional aspect of 'this horrible series of events happened and derailed my entire life and living the life I had before is impossible, all my family is dead but one, I can't bear to keep living as Battler' is present, but it's overshadowed by whatever physically neurologically happened. If it was just the emotional trauma aspect, that can be worked past over time, like Ange has, but Toya is still unable to identify himself fully as Battler even when he has emotionally recovered quite a lot. I feel it's worth repeating that all the forgeries touched on in the series after Episode 2 were written by Toya, at least as the two-person team. He probably was using writing "what if" scenarios on the incident as a coping mechanism to try to sort out those memories he felt were "not his", if for no other reason than to get it out in the hopes it would stop plaguing him. The fact that Episodes 5 and 6 were half-complete non-stories (as well as Piece!Battler being trapped in the locked room in Chapter 6) is probably a sign of how painful the process actually got.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:08
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resurgam40 posted:They were heart-stoppingly cruel and gross, but... would we have learned anything at all about the heart of the Tragedy? Yes, the best way to learn about internal organs is to tear open a corpse and look at them directly. That is why biology classes have dissection assignments.
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Dec 6, 2017 09:16
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