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idonotlikepeas posted:Folks, I think you have to assume by this point that avoraciopoctules is well aware that red text is canonical and is examining the work through the prism of it being non-canonical just to see what happens. That kind of experiment doesn't seem totally illegitimate given the way this game is set up, although I personally don't expect to be entertained by the results. It turns out that the real events of this game are an exact reenactment of Citizen Kane. Every scene we are presented is false, none of the characters are real, and all of the red text is lies.
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Mar 19, 2017 22:22
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bman in 2288 posted:I'm not going to doubt his ability as a physical powerhouse and a father, stern and strict as he might be. So if this scene was real and the Ange stuff was real (admittedly some pretty big ifs), then that means the gold must also have been real. Because Eva wasn't living in a gutter somewhere after someone came by to call in Krauss's debts. Also, I imagine that some of the totally legitimate businesspeople that he borrowed money from/gave Rokkenjima to were Sumaderas. Because they look trustworthy and understanding and forgiving, right?
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Mar 20, 2017 19:26
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Dr Pepper posted:Eva probably didn't inherit anything from Krauss. She got her money from the stuff Kinzo owned and Krauss didn't have access to (all the stuff in the hidden mansion) and later from the life insurance payouts from everyone else''s deaths. I think you're underestimating how much debt Krauss is in and what the kind of people he's borrowing from would do to get their payments. Especially after the mansion that he gave them mysteriously burned down.
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Mar 20, 2017 19:56
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Nothing she just said about Knoxs rules was in red. The thing about those rules is that they're about writing a satisfactory mystery - one that doesn't make a reader feel cheated by the answer. That's a fantasy as much as witches are, though. There's nothing forcing the killer to follow those rules, and some incentive for them to break the ones they can break if it improves misdirection. I'm not sure we can say for sure that any have been broken, though. Yes, we've seen inside people's thoughts, but those thoughts can be fiction the same as anything else that isn't in red. Same with the secret passages we've seen - they may not actually exist.
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Mar 22, 2017 21:55
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I'm amused that lambdadelta is a Magic: the gathering player. So that's what witches mean whenever they say magic is real! And wizards are real, too, but only the ones that live by the coast. I'm kind of inclined to believe that that conversation is a red herring. Remember this is all leading up to Bern piece accusing Natsuhi of being the murderer. Adding a new never before seen piece to the board at this point, one with no clear relation to anything except Natsuhi, would be really weird.
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Mar 24, 2017 19:15
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So we know that the gold exists. That doesn't say that it belonged to Kinzo or that it's up for grabs now, though. Maybe he has loans with it as the collateral, and of course after Krauss's brilliant handling of the funds they can't repay those. Also Natsuhi making excuses for Krauss is always funny. Sure, he really needs his sleep for the next day when he will continue to make you do all the work of faking your way out of his terrible business choices. I wonder how long it would take Krauss to waste 20 billion yen of gold. Maybe someone would sell him some magic beans that are guaranteed to triple his money, at a low low buy in of 20 billion. Such value!
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Mar 28, 2017 19:47
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Hmm. Some of those red texts refer to Beato and some to "this child". I don't think we have any red text to say that those are the same person. Also, I don't like Battlers logic. Beatrice doesn't care if the epitaph is solved so she doesn't care about the epitaph murders. Sure, she probably doesn't care if the murders follow the epitaph, but that doesn't mean she doesn't care about the murders at all. Also, the epitaph murders happen regardless of if the epitaph is solved - see Eva's ascendance. Oh, and the red text "beato never killed for pleasure" could be trivially true if it is also true that "Beato never killed". After all, Beato could be the little girl who fell to her death years ago. That would explain why that one wasn't "this child".
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Mar 29, 2017 21:16
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Dr Pepper posted:
We have straight up evidence that that's not true. The epitaph has been solved twice, and both times the murders have continued afterwards. Though it is possible that this set of murders won't follow the epitaph, but there will still definitely be murders.
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Mar 30, 2017 01:55
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As usual for events that aren't in red, we don't know if this really happened. Yes, they could be forcing Natsuhi to stay in her room so she doesn't have an alibi. On the other hand, maybe Natsuhi "staying in her room" is all in her head, just like her conversations with Kinzo. The only people who interact with this caller at all are Genji and Natsuhi. Also, I'd expect that either the caller isn't real at all or else Genji is helping them. He's just too convenient for them. Oh, and I'm also suspicious of the money Krauss set aside for Natsuhi and Jessica. I mean, I'm sure that he set the money aside at one point - that's in character for him. But I would also expect that at some point he needed just a bit of money for a venture that was guaranteed to pay out tenfold, so he borrowed from that fund, fully intending to return it, but somehow it just didn't pay out. That would also be very in character for him. Hmm. The caller also accuses Natsuhi of being a murderer. So whatever happened 19 years ago (if anything) wasn't just her having a kid. But who are the possibilities for her murder victim? We don't know about any mysterious bodies in the past (besides Beato). So... what if the issue is that she didn't have a kid? What if she became pregnant and had an abortion 19 years ago? Then either someone found out about it and is threatening her based on it, or for some reason she's now feeling guilty about it. What if the reason she and Krauss had so much trouble having children is that Natsuhi didn't actually want a child? Or didn't want a male child? I'm not sure why that would be, but it's a possibility. IT also explains why no one noticed her going through a pregnancy, which is not the most subtle of things to do. Qrr fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Mar 30, 2017 |
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Mar 30, 2017 20:07
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If we're assuming the call actually happened, then the possible people who could have done it were Krauss, Genji, Jessica, George, Maria, Kumasawa, Nanjo, Gohda, and Mary Sue. I'm not sure how Natsuhi could fail to differentiate those voices, but I guess if we assume speaking technique X then it works out.
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Mar 31, 2017 19:13
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So Krauss is almost certainly actually dead, unless they're going to count Kinzo towards the epitaph or they aren't following the epitaph this time. All the Natsuhi scenes are "explanations" for why she looks so guilty, but i think that either she actually is guilty or in reality there are different reasons why she appears guilty.
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Apr 3, 2017 01:39
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So in Three Kingdoms metaphor land, would Battler be the one who wins in the end? There aren't really any other candidates for a fourth party. Maria I guess, but shes a very inconsistent witch. Also, Berns blue text does seem like it covers most of the possibilities for the corpses vanishing. Though the third one seems very reminiscent of small bombs because people saw the corpses up close. Except maybe Genji - he's the separate corpse so he's more likely to be odd in some way.
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Apr 3, 2017 23:12
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Cyouni posted:Assuming Erika was the one to seal the room, it would presumably have been to prevent possible tampering. On that note, if she actually did find the room first, then she would also have likely been able to conduct an investigation and confirm Genji's death. On the other hand, Bernkastel is the one pretending to follow the rules of a detective novel, and having the detective find and investigate a crime scene offscreen sounds like a cardinal sin for that genre to me.
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Apr 4, 2017 03:33
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resurgam40 posted:Ooooh, you cliffhanging tease. Whilst we're waiting for... whatever it is is coming (What's Beato even going to do if she's just a spirit here?), let me crack open a drink and enjoy the best part of this Arc so far: I'm pretty sure Bern is still playing Battler, since this is all recap. Meta Battler came in much later, when Mary Sue accused Natsuhi. So this is Bern schooling herself for some reason. I mean, it's a pretty absurd argument for them to have in the first place. And I find it very hard to believe that there weren't other fictional serial killers who killed more than 10 people.
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Apr 4, 2017 19:31
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When Smart Battler pokes his head out, even Bern is impressed... this is really why it becomes so infuriating when he can't get it, even if he does have really good reasons for falling apart: because when he does have his head in the game, he can do stuff like that. Up the mystery buffs.
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BurningStone posted:I don't want to drop the discussion of Beato's motive for the murders, but drat, that's a tough block of red. Is there some weasel room by saying Beato isn't Beatrice? I hope that isn't it. Several of those lines actually referred to "this child", which I thought was quite suspicious. Especially when some said "this child" and some said "Beato".
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Apr 5, 2017 04:15
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tiistai posted:Geez, did a witch kill your family or what Of course not, witches aren't real. However, as a counterfactual, if witches were real then they would be mass murderers. In conclusion, witches suck. CottonWolf posted:Yeah. This can't last. At some point presumably the game has to remember that Beato's very probably a member of Battler's family, and at the very least has performed/orchestrated the deaths of his relatives multiple times. They can't North Wind and the Sun us twice. Clearly they can North Wind and Sun us twice. Oh, and Battler doesn't mind if she's a member of his family. He's into that sort of thing, apparently.
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Apr 7, 2017 18:56
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It is odd that they list 7 people who were outside the mansion and then talk about 8 people. Is that a typo, or are those 7 names actually associated with 8 people? And I do like the logic that if no one out of the mansion placed the letter and no one in the mansion placed the letter, then the letter wasn't placed at all and was either sleight of hand or the events we saw were fictional (like witches).
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Apr 10, 2017 20:49
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The caller could be Krauss, Genji, or the call could have not happened. So far that part at least is easy to explain. Also, weird verbal tics continue to be annoying. "Please, allow me to speak" in front of every sentence. Feh. Qrr fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Apr 10, 2017 |
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Apr 10, 2017 23:17
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So presumably they're going to cut their way into the room and find a dead Hideyoshi and a very suspicious Natsuhi. And no one else. Possibilities: Natsuhi did it Hideyoshi did it, either suicide or faking (probably not faking) The door wasn't really locked (we just heard him locking it and Eva being unable to open it, plus however it eventually opens, but those could be lies) Some kind of trap or accident or poison ??? We also have the question of how they directed Hideyoshi to that room. Maybe he tried lots of rooms and that was the only unlocked one. Or he was in on it, or he was blackmailed into going there, or someone recommended it. Qrr fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Apr 11, 2017 |
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Apr 11, 2017 19:43
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CottonWolf posted:The directing question's harder. I mean, why was he crying? Was it because George is dead? Or was it because he's guilty, or was coerced into helping? I still think the "Who are you?" renders suicide unlikely. But if he'd been coerced in a similar way to Natsuhi, to come to that room, possibly after being forced into helping with the murders, everything makes sense. We already know there's something fairly sus about Hideyoshi from episode 3, so it's not impossible he's in on it. I think there's decent mileage in "it was the only unlocked room". Then someone just needs to push him towards alone time, which is less obvious than pushing him to a specific room, and because they keep all their rooms locked (also, why the heck do they keep most of the rooms in the house locked? Weird), he'd only be able to go into that one. As for someone hiding in the room and attacking him, I'm suspicious of it. It runs into the usual closed room issue - where did they go afterwards? Are they now hiding in the room? If so, when the other people show up at the room later, will the hiding person try to blend with them or will they keep hiding? Or is the room not actually closed somehow? Maybe they also ordered Natsuhi to lock the door after they leave and we don't get to see that part. Really the easiest case is that Natsuhi did it. I imagine at some point we'll get red that says the didn't, but I'm not invested in defending her so why not go for the low hanging fruit. We already know that she's not a reliable narrator, what with talking to Kinzo and Beatrice.
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Apr 11, 2017 22:33
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bman in 2288 posted:Something I want to ask is, is Natsuhi a reliable point of view at this time? She imagines Beatrice and Kinzo and all those other demons, she may have imagined herself in the closet the entire time. And another thing, is Krauss a non-player in all of this? I think that it's possible that he had a hand in Hideyoshi's death, not many other people could have overpowered him on the island. I think almost no one is a reliable viewpoint. If something isn't in red then it might not be real. CottonWolf posted:This... Anyone looking could tell they were dead, but that doesn't help if the people looking we're in on it or didn't actually look. Genji was observed by the least people so he's the most suspicious there. We still don't know what the tape over the door meant. Though she does say it's absolutely impossible that they were people who were playing dead. Is that a statement of its own, or is it supposed to follow from the previous part of the sentence? Is it independently true, or only true if they were observed to be dead by someone reliable? So this closed room was obviously incredibly porous, since Natsuhi got out unseen. And Erika is an atrocious detective - "no interest in corpses", holy crap. Furudo Erika is incompetetent. Qrr fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Apr 12, 2017 |
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Apr 12, 2017 19:16
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Ha! That's a great catch. Of course the corpses were dead. Yay red text tautologies. Next Beatrice can ask Virgilia where they buried the survivors.
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Apr 12, 2017 20:21
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It's odd that Beatrice accepted that only Natsuhi lacked an alibi. Even if they're going to keep pretending Krauss is a hostage, it has been "proved" that Kinzo is at an unknown location doing who knows what. Until he is proven dead he's a possible murderer.
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Apr 13, 2017 18:56
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idonotlikepeas posted:Huh. So we're not even getting the rest of the murders? That's it? Oh, well. They obviously weren't on high alert, because they failed to notice someone standing in the closet. And of course Krauss and any of the "dead" people that were not corpses were also eligible. On the other hand, Beatrice is invested in defending Natsuhi but I've yet to see a reason we should be. Sometimes the obvious person did it. Also, maybe the reason we aren't getting the rest of the murders is that they stopped here. They found the gold, so "Beatrice" doesn't need to kill according to the epitaph, and so far hasn't been - 5 were initially killed (or 6 or 7, depending on if Krauss is dead and if they decided to count Kinzo this time). Then one later, which hardly lines up with killing the 6 chosen by the key. Maybe these killings don't follow the epitaph pattern at all.
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Apr 14, 2017 01:37
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I question Erikas ability to check 3 different seals before anyone left their rooms in response to Battler screaming, but I guess they were confirmed in red so that's irrelevant. And it definitely is suspicious that Erika listened to Battler breathe all night and didn't notice that no one else was breathing. On the other hand, maybe she did notice and didn't care. She's a sociopath, she doesn't care about preventing murders, just solving them. If she had heard someone say "I'm going to kill X" then she would watch them do it and then reveal she knew. Also, the red text on the alibis is just "never went to the second floor". That doesn't guarantee they didn't murder the people, just that they didn't murder them on the second floor (probably). Also, we know nothing out of the ordinary happened in the room after 3, but what if the people in the room left it, were murdered, and were returned to the room? Oh, and Erika has totally broken Knox's rule: "The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader.". We haven't seen any of these clues that she's producing in this trial. Dlanor should be pissed. We also could assert that other people knew about Eva's trick and were able to reseal their rooms. There's still the red text about not visiting the second floor, but it would grant mobility anyway. And obviously there's time of death for the victims. If someone pretended to be dead then they actually died by the time of the trial, but are otherwise able to do whatever they want. Edit: why didn't Erika seal the cousins room? Or did she, and she doesn't want to provide it as evidence because it would hurt her argument? This is why that Knox rule exists! Qrr fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 14, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2017 19:49
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thetruegentleman posted:Erika's seal had her name in fancy cursive: assuming Erika doesn't have all the tape herself, they would also need to write on the tape in the exact same way, which is close enough to impossible (without magic, of course) so as not to be worth challenging. I'm not sure why she used multiple different door seals, but she sealed Kumasawas room with a piece of brown paper. ProfessorProf posted:
quote:I don't remember the exact quote in red, but it probably wasn't pretending, since that was addressed specifically; using drugs or alcohol to fake one's own death might still work though. The quote was that anyone looking at their corpses could tell they were dead, so all of the corpses were definitely dead. It said nothing about whether anyone looking at a living person could tell if they were dead or alive. It was misleading. quote:Sealing the room would be meaningless, since she was listening herself. I do wonder how Erika would address the possibility of someone breaking the tape to frame someone, or better yet, moving about by using the windows (which I can't find on the maps). He could break the red truth barrier because she was commanded not to create it, because the "witches" running the show are trolls. lotus circle posted:We saw the duct tape during the First Twilight discovery. We saw one piece of tape. There were apparently 3 more and they were brown paper instead of tape. We also saw nothing about her listening at the wall.
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Apr 14, 2017 23:18
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"After I watched Kumasawa-san, who returned to the guesthouse with me, say goodnight and enter the waiting room, I used this to seal the door. Then, in the morning, when the crime was discovered and caused a big uproar, I immediately went to check Kumasawa-san's waiting room, where I confirmed that the seal was still set. Therefore, I can prove Kumasawa-san's alibi!"
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Cyouni posted:Genji died between 12:00 and 1:00, at which point the culprit moved to the guesthouse. It's possible this was a suicide, but unlikely. Once again, that red was about corpses. None of the corpses were just people playing dead. Which is a useless tautology. whitehelm posted:Erika is only saying that the culprit went up to the second floor before 1:00 because she was watching the stairs after that. The murders (or at least Rosa's murder) occurred after that, but the culprit in Erika's solution was already hiding somewhere on the second floor so they couldn't have an alibi. If the culprit was hiding on the second floor and Erika stayed up all night, where did the culprit go? How did they leave the second floor?
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Apr 15, 2017 23:48
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tiistai posted:Players affect the gameboard, nothing new or strange about this. Bernkastel is, of course, full of poo poo here, as usual. See the evidence: ProfessorProf posted:
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Apr 16, 2017 14:18
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"...Yes, that's right. There's no need for us to show up for something like this. This is important precisely because a mere human like Furudo Erika will defeat you, Beato."
"...Because you'll be defeated by a human, we'll know. We'll all know that the fake witch who calls herself 'Beatrice the Golden' is nothing more than a sub-human phantom."
"...A, and how do you intend to prove that?! Erika's in the guesthouse! Did someone prove it by using one of your favorite seals on the dining hall door?! You have no convincing evidence or proof...!!"
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No, you really, really haven't. You've proven (maybe) that everyone one else has an alibi, so from your view that's who dunnit. That doesn't resolve the how dunnit at all. Indeed, you haven't even tried to resolve the how dunnit. You've presented no theories, no murder weapon. Also, this is a silly way of disproving Beatrice too. Heck, you're kind of doing her work for her - if you can find alibis for 16/17 people, then Beatrice only has to find an alibi for one more and suddenly a witch did it. Or prove she didn't do it some other way. Natsuhi sure could use an actual lawyer to defend herself. Though I think the first thing the lawyer would argue is that the judge is hostile and also imaginary. Oh, and Kinzo not thinking Natsuhi deserves the one winged eagle is not a surprise. I'm amazed that people are treating this like a revelation. Guy was a pretty thorough misogynist.
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Apr 16, 2017 22:33
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So how was Rosa murdered between 12 and 1 as they're claiming when she didn't show up until one? Also, it's rampant bullshit that red truth from witches is allowed to stand on its own when red truth from Battler can't. Knox should be fighting against Berns statements about what happened in the manor just as hard as she fights against Battlers, but of course she's furniture so she's totally full of poo poo about actually believing her own rules. And yes, obviously Kinzo doesn't have an alibi and Battler could have pushed to also go over the murders of Krauss and Hideyoshi, which would have at the very least bought him time to think. But incompetence, yadda yadda. I also don't know why he got stabbed her, since Natsuhi and Beatrice were the ones on trial here, but I guess the answer is "because witches".
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Apr 17, 2017 22:34
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Tender Child Loins posted:There are more holes as well. 1) If Erika listened to the other room all night, how was Natsuhi able to silently kill everyone without her knowing? 2) When did everyone truly die and where did their corpses end up? 3) It was established that Piece-Battler's POV is unreliable, so his testimony as it related to anyone being dead is shaky at best. At worst, he is actively lying in order to implicate his aunt. Erika started listening at 3 am, and the prosecution believed that all of the murders were completed before 1 am. Somehow. And Genji had to die before his room was sealed, though Eva did that sealing. If he was actually dead; the red text in this update was once again "no one misidentified a corpse" and therefore still useless.
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Apr 17, 2017 22:46
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Tender Child Loins posted:Then how did Natsuhi enter the guesthouse without being noticed? I feel like the circumstantial evidence against her only applies if she is a literal ninja. They're saying Natsuhi entered between 12 and 1, when Erika was "distracted". Then she murdered some people, including the one who didn't even get there until after 1, and then she either left before 1 or waited til morning to somehow leave. Honestly Erika has pretty thoroughly ignored how Natsuhi could have done it and focused on how everyone else couldn't have done it. Because Erika is incompetent.
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Apr 17, 2017 22:52
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Amidiri posted:Natsuhi lost her mind when Kinzo died and she learned the truth of her husband's debts. She began hallucinating mysterious phone calls from a dead child, as well as witches and demons. During one of these episodes while hallucinating she committed the crimes, but, because she was unaware of her actions at the time she's not criminally responsible and thus can't be convicted of murder. It just needs to be someone else. One of the "dead" people or someone else's alibi isn't as strong as they think. What if one of the "dead" people was pretending, and then one of the people who found the corpses finished them off? Then you'd even be able to say that no one identified a living person as a corpse (Which would be much more useful red than we have had so far). Man, there is just so much supernatural means being used in this trial. Anyone pretending that Knoxs second actually applies here is being completely absurd.
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Apr 17, 2017 23:37
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Tired Moritz posted:If we accept magic is real, that means everyone is innocent and what's wrong with that? If magic is real, then the witches need to be tried for murder. Lots and lots and lots of murder. I don't know the details of the Japanese justice system, but I imagine that if you kill someone and then magically resurrect them and kill them again that's 2 counts of homicide. But of course we have it in red that witches didn't do it in quite a lot of places ("no one could get into this room" includes magic rabbits). Sure, they claim that the red doesn't apply to them, but they also claim that the red is inherently true. Pick one, witches! Even if I did accept magic I still wouldn't accept inconsistency!
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Apr 18, 2017 03:23
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Fabulousvillain posted:I think this is why it has been most the frustrating (for me) thing to read through this section. It makes sense the Lambadelta is enjoying herself having less stake than everyone else, but now she actively trying to end the game on a pin against Natsuhi for no reason. Maybe there's a plan she has in mind that will flip everything on it's head, but I can't get the feeling of anime bullshit for the sake of making the audience feel bad for the characters with actual stakes involved. It just feels really cheap to me and I feel the opposite of the way resugram40 felt because it makes no sense to me. In other words I don't feel anything. Krauss has an alibi via red text that for some reason they are accepting. And that reason is that his isn't a trial in any way - it's a metaphorical witch hunt, as opposed to the literal witch hunts that should be going on. Cyouni posted:? The only one she ignored was the one that wasn't backed up with any evidence - Ushiromiya Natsuhi is not the culprit, and that was denied with Knox's 2nd as gathered through a solely supernatural source. They've allowed tons of red texts that weren't backed by any evidence. Red texts about Krauss not being the culprit and being dead. Red texts about the state of the people in the mansion. In this update we got red text about Kinzo not being anywhere outside the mansion, based on Erika "looking around". Looking around the entire island, including its second secret mansion. Complete nonsense. Only the prosecution is allowed any evidence in this "trial". The defense has nothing. Erika treats Natsuhis journals as facts but her words as lies, because one is convenient for her case and the other isn't. Erika isn't a detective. At all. She started with a theory on who did it and is warping everything she can to pretend it's true. From an actual fictional detective: "It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
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Apr 18, 2017 18:43
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ProfessorProf posted:Ostensibly, the reason Erika's faction can dole out unfair truths to suit their purposes whenever they want is because the player, Bernkastel, has the rank of Witch. Witches can provide red for free, humans can't do it without proof. Well yes, that's what happens when you have a kangaroo court. Only the ones who support the desired conclusion are allowed to speak, and only about things that support that conclusion. Them calling the cheating side "witches" is not relevant to the scenario. tiistai posted:No, didn't you read it? She didn't look through the entire island. The fact that Erika didn't find any clues about Kinzo existing anywhere outside effectively proves that Kinzo doesn't exist anywhere outside. Knox's 8th, detective's authority. It's proof enough. That is not how Knoxs 8th works. Oh, and Knoxs 8th hurts her - she once again found clues and didn't present them to the viewer until the trial. She's not a detective. Qrr fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 18:50
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tiistai posted:It is here. What does "presented" mean, then? That nothing at all is evidence unless the detective says it at some point (not when they discover it)? I thought their premise was that this was a mystery story. Resolving a mystery because the detective reveals something that they knew all along at the end of the story makes it third rate. And, as we've been told repeatedly, Erika is a first rate jackass.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:02
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tiistai posted:Being included in the story. It's not the detective's responsibility to present clues, it's the author's. Then Knoxs 8th isn't a counter to anything. Just because it hasn't been presented yet doesn't mean it won't be later. Cyouni posted:Well, Krauss is only a suspect if the human side (represented by Natsuhi) is willing to push in that direction. So he's out. I will also note that in a real trial, just because the current defendant doesn't want to accuse someone else of the crime doesn't mean you discount them as a potential culprit. Natsuhi doesn't want Krauss or Kinzo to be responsible, but why should the court care? Of course, this court cares because they're not trying to solve anything, just to hurt Natsuhi as much as possible. Oh, also since witches aren't real and are just metaphorical: what the heck is going on there? This must represent someone attacking Natsuhi. So who is doing it and what's their motivation? Mary Sue isn't doing it on behalf of Bernkastel because Bern is imaginary. So what is actually going on? I guess Mary Sue could have a reason to dislike Natsuhi, though I'm not sure how - maybe it relates to that backstory where she comes from a noble family.
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Apr 18, 2017 19:14
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CottonWolf posted:Probably. Oh, it's much more likely that Kyrie murdered Asumu. Rudolf probably just helped. Or, as Erika would "prove" if she were the detective on the case, it was Ange! How could you, Ange? Unless of course you want to blame your mother, right? Sure, we know you didn't do it in red, but that's inadmissible because it wouldn't fit my narrative.
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Apr 18, 2017 20:31
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oblongmeow posted:The red was not 'overthrown', no one has ever claimed that statements in red are not the truth. The issue here is that Erika doesn't care whether or not Natsuhi is actually guilty as long as she can construct a case the explains the murders that no one can contradict. Battler attempted to use the red truth that Natsuhi was not the culprit, but since he himself was unable to figure out who could have done it if not her despite possessing the red truth, the court rejected his 'reasoning'. I don't see how this is supposed to have any impact on the veracity of any of the red truths prevented so far in the game. Because red truths have been accepted that had just as little justification. If red truths are only accepted arbitrarily, why should we care about any of them? He didn't need to figure out who did it if not her. If you go through everyone's alibis one by one and refuse to believe the last person is innocent because then who could have done it, then the only result of your system is framing the last person examined. Especially when you're willing to cheat your way to other alibis.
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Apr 19, 2017 01:10
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