|
Tired Moritz posted:I'm gonna guess and say there's two battlers. We know for a fact that there are two battlers. My name is Ushiromiya Battler Ushiromiya Battler's mother is Ushiromiya Asumi The fact that the first 2 are true and the third is not means that there must be. I don't think it solves the closed room, though.
|
#
¿
Jun 21, 2017 09:45
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 17, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
Zack Ater posted:Someone can be your mother and not be who birthed you. True, but you are not Ushiromiya Asumu's son is also stated. So while adoption would work with the red texts I cited it would not work with that one. As for this update, yeah, S=K is being pushed hard. Who is 19 years old? Battler and other Battler are presumably the same age. I suppose we don't have Kanons age in red (or anyone else's, really).
|
|
#
¿
Jun 21, 2017 18:38
|
|
|
Zack Ater posted:"Son" is ambiguous, it could be referring to either a biological or emotional relationship. So it could simply mean that he is not, biologically, her son; alternatively, not every adopter considers the adoptee their child. If you're going to treat son as emotional and mother as biological in two red texts in the same chapter then I guess so, but that's quite a stretch. If we're going to do that, then maybe some of the people who were declared dead were actually dead via emotion - "you're dead to me". That way lies a dark place.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2017 04:37
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:Not sure why you're thinking 'son' is emotional, as the way it's used is clearly biological. I'm not thinking that. Read the comment I responded to. Lisonfire posted:Krauss and Natsuhi only interact with servants by yelling at them, Gohda actually hates them so hes probably not paying attention either. (and didn't realize Kinzo is dead given some of his lines, so cluelessness confirmed). Natsuhi interacts with the servants besides yelling at them. She assigns them to do things, she interacts with their schedules.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2017 08:35
|
|
|
So an interesting quote: "Since no answer exists, then defeat is absolutely certain for whichever player is burdened with the responsibility of explaining." Is there a way to shift which player is burdened with the responsibility of explaining? And I really don't get how S=K helps this situation. Let's say it's true. Ok, now Kanon is in a different closed room than he was before. Not very helpful. And like other people I'm confused as to how Dlanor can just refuse to answer the window question. Though her initial red was "the seals on the windows were also intact", which I assumed referred to all sealed windows since it has no limiters.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 22, 2017 19:38
|
|
|
ZiegeDame posted:This might have worked before Erika called out Battler's logic error, but not after. Battler still has to be holding a card in his hand called 'consistent logic.' If he introduces confusion over Kanon's location, it doesn't actually change the fact that the red truths Battler has presented are contradictory. It is the responsibility of the game master to ensure that the game is fair, that there is a correct answer. Even if Battler tricks Erika into thinking there is a correct answer when there isn't, he is still at fault. A logic error is a logic error, the ultimate betrayal of the reader, and it must come to light by the end of the game, resulting in the death of all trust in the author, and the total destruction of the game. Except that logic errors don't matter until they're called out. Erika had murdered the people long before Battler put himself in that position, but until Erika and Dlanor explained it he was fine. So if he can convince Lambadelta then he has it made. Though it seems like he'd have a hard time contacting her from where he is now.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 23, 2017 01:22
|
|
|
And we continue the mega hard push for S=K=B, to the point that it's really hard to argue with. It still doesn't seem relevant to the closed rooms, though. And Erika was in both of these rooms, and talked about there being equal people in each room. I really don't see how we resolve that, aside from "Erika has an unreliable viewpoint", which is true, but if Erika has an unreliable viewpoint and we're relying on that to solve the case then I stand by my claim that she unchained and then rechained the room to let Battler leave, because that's about as reasonable as her not noticing that the room was missing a person.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2017 02:05
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:I don't recall Erika being in both rooms? She talked with Rudolf and Krauss before the whole room setup, and was in Hideyoshi's room after the rooms were set up. Ah, you're right. I had remembered her being in the room with them when she had the conversation, but they were in the lounge. That does then raise the question of what the 5 people in the room thought about Kanon not being there (Rudolf and Krauss at least would have expected him). I guess maybe Kanon told them he'd stay out of the room to help prank Erika, though that raises the further question of why the rest of them stayed in the room. And it requires some quick change artist skills again, since they had to become Shannon in time for Erika to see her in the other room. Also, this whole "furniture have fragments of a soul" thing is interesting. What does that mean for all the rabbits and goats and demons and so on? And why is only piece Beatrice furniture? Seems like by that definition every Beatrice should be. Qrr fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Jun 25, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2017 08:26
|
|
|
So, who threw popcorn at Dlanor? Lambdadelta? And just how bad at fighting is she that popcorn defeats her? Maybe witch popcorn is 20 feet wide, weights 7 tons, and is mostly made of moving chainsaws.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 25, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
I think that Erika knows about S=K (and that it's still ridiculous). Why else would she ask Battler not to specify exactly who was in the room with Kanon? She could have specified the 6 people in there and then asked for red that there was no one else on the island, but she didn't. On the other hand, she is bad at her job. Maybe she'll claim Kinzo opened the closed room.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 26, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
And once again we get to see just how bad Erika is at this detective thing. She sets some kind of mysterious lock on the next room over that prevents blue reasoning using it as an escape. Then, when that becomes inconvenient, rather than wondering why it's inconvenient or checking out the lock she has it destroyed, presumably retroactively because that's how this chapter rolls. I wonder how Beatrice would have dealt with it if that had remained intact. And hey, we finally found a puzzle where S=K helps out instead of making things more complicated. It seems like it makes things totally trivial, actually. Oh, and Beatrice can actually say in red that Kanon vanished using magic. Because magic is all in people's heads and not real, and conveniently Kanon is all in people's heads too. I assume that's how she will deal the death blow. Oh, and watch as we get a hilarious twist and Kumasawa is actually Kanon. Or George, that would be sufficiently creepy. Qrr fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jun 27, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2017 18:56
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:I will point out that Kanon disappearing had not been confirmed in any way with the red. No, but it's the obvious response to Erikas blue that she's working so hard to think up. I expect something like "Kanon is not anywhere in the room" to ruin her carefully crafted blue statement. Cyouni posted:She doesn't use blue, so the only one that hinders is Erika. Making that entire exchange as much of a farce as I noted at the time, since the correct answer was already used there. She can't have some kind of weird seal that only stops blue. That's not something permitted by the rules of the game. So she had something that affected the ability of people to leave via the window, but whatever it was was probably had an easy way around it if you knew what it was. So when someone theorizes that the window was snuck out of, they can be shut down, but it has to be vague or else it's defeated. Probably. Qrr fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 27, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Jun 27, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
I still am suspicious of S=K because of how hard it was pushed. So what are the odds that someone else is Kanon? We know Battler isn't via red, but what about one of the other people in the same room as Shannon? Or hey, maybe they take turns. This year, I'm Kanon! Maybe it's just whenever has the costume is Kanon. And really is Kanon, to get around the red that no one but Kanon can use the name.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 28, 2017 18:13
|
|
|
oath2order posted:Seriously. Have you guys just been ignoring us telling you magic is real and powerful and our friends for most of a year now? You are witches and therefore not real, so you're easy to ignore.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 28, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
little_firebird posted:Please enjoy this gift from witch chat: Finally, a real explanation of what love is!
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2017 05:20
|
|
|
I think Amakusa was trusting in the goons to shoot Ange, which is why he expressed hope that they were good shots. Though frankly they don't need to be to hit someone at close range when there are like 5 of them, so I'm not sure I understand what he was doing. I guess maybe the luck he's trusting in is whether the goons could kill Ange before he finished killing them - he doesn't want to kill her himself, and he's not sure if he wants her to die, so he gives her a chance to survive by starting to kill the goons before they kill her. Either they kill her before they die or they don't, and that decides if she survives. Maybe. Also, Nier Automata is great but it is a very, very different game than Umineko.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2017 20:39
|
|
|
So we're all very excited for the next episode, but I think we're ignoring the most important part of the update. Why is Bern surprised to see a cat eating meat, and disturbed by it as if it's some deep metaphor? Has she only previously associated with vegetarian cats? Being an obligate carnivore is serious business, you jerk! Though they do tend to skip the bowels. But not much else - when a cat is done with a mouse the only thing left is some miscellaneous organs and a wish that they hadn't had their meal on your nice welcome mat.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 30, 2017 19:45
|
|
|
witchcore ricepunk posted:
The main issue there is that, well, eagles are very, very common imagery, so you have to look at how they're stylized. And the one winged eagle doesn't really match either of those. Also, explaining away the one winged eagle as part of a larger construction would make more sense if the gold were broken. As is, they're intact ingots and there's no reason to only include part of your logo on gold ingots, if you're bothering with that much effort in the first place.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 3, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:The story has something like five meta levels, then our discussion here is another, then witchchat is discussing us. Only witchchat is real. You say that, but just wait til the next episode features piece Battler reading a book about witch chat. Because why should meta layers be finite?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2017 08:41
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:Wow, so much info. The bomb makes sense for the "everybody dies" line, but it's a bit of a puzzler how you'd actually pull it off. You want to kill anybody in the mansion or guesthouse, or maybe even in the garden between them. And from Ep 1, it needs to be powerful enough so even the number of bodies can't be determined. That's a lot of explosives. So you smuggle them in little by little and hide them somewhere you're sure nobody will look. Oh, with the gold, of course. That fits the idea that finding the gold will save everybody. Hmm, except the only time somebody survived, it was Eva, after finding the gold. Presumably she wouldn't have wanted it blown to scrap, but maybe the free relative removal was worth it. She hardly had time to relocate all that gold. Obviously, no one has checked the gold thoroughly enough and it's actually just 20 tons of C4 with some gold paint. Just wait for the next set of furniture we're going to get, the amazing exploding anime girls! They can only explode once each, though.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 4, 2017 20:27
|
|
|
This is not where I expected things to go, but things have never gone where I expected them to go in this story. Why is Bern the game master now? As far as we know Battler won the last round. She's also apparently Auaus miko, I guess because Ange left?
|
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2017 19:18
|
|
|
Cyouni posted:You may want to reread the last update of the 6th game. Huh, did manage to forget that pretty thoroughly. I guess I was distracted by witch views on cat biology.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2017 19:47
|
|
|
BurningStone posted:Huh, how'd I forget that Bern hadn't been game master yet. She's the logical next choice. I wonder whether we're going to actually be following Van Dines rules here, because if we are then we won't get any scenes of witches summoning demons to fight furniture. No tricks on the readers allowed which aren't also tricks on the detective. So if our new detective saw Kinzo then either Kinzo is alive or someone has some awesome makeup on. If the red text about Kinzo being dead has expired then so has the red text about how no one could be mistaken for Kinzo. Van Dines rules in general are going to work very badly with Umineko, though. But we've already seen some in red.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2017 21:44
|
|
|
Confused Llama posted:Yeah, that's fair. I kind of expect that instead of finding it entertaining, the thread would probably be crying 'sexual harassment' right now if the roles were reversed here (as I think it's fair to say that despite the deliberate gender ambiguity, Lion does seem to 'read' more feminine than masculine to most of us at the moment, based on the predominant trend in the reflexive use of pronouns). It is sexual harassment, but after all the murder and torture and intellectual rape it seems kind of minor. Plus we already talked about it with Battler. Plus, yes, the sexism that it's only bad if a man does it.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2017 00:05
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 17, 2024 18:38 |
|
|
Tired Moritz posted:there's a difference between pinching someone's rear end because you're a sleaze and pinching someone's rear end because you want them to stop talking, especially when it's framed in a comedic manner. Except that there are a ton of non-sleazy ways to get someone to stop talking - stepping on the foot is a not uncommon one, or a little kick. Or pinching them in most places that aren't the rear end.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 7, 2017 00:42
|
|