call to action posted:

Lol you think that most dead malls are in places that people want to redevelop

call to action posted:

It's a bad thing because these malls killed Main Street, and now there's nothing left in these towns. Older malls in particular used to bring in a lot of tax money, too, before developers got smart with PIFs and made the shoppers pay for it all.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I used to live one county over from Nowata, Oklahoma, which became infamous for being one of the first towns that was destroyed by Wal-Mart. They moved a shopping center into the area, which wiped out all of the mainstreet businesses - but after a decade they decided that there wasn't enough of a consumer market to support the store - so they closed up and left the economy in complete ruins. It took another decade before businesses came back to mainstreet, but by then the town was already half depopulated.

When the malls start shutting down the same thing is going to happen to rural towns all across the country.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The main thrust of this thread is that hundreds of thousands of jobs are gonna be lost and there won't be any replacements.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I used to live one county over from Nowata, Oklahoma, which became infamous for being one of the first towns that was destroyed by Wal-Mart. They moved a shopping center into the area, which wiped out all of the mainstreet businesses - but after a decade they decided that there wasn't enough of a consumer market to support the store - so they closed up and left the economy in complete ruins. It took another decade before businesses came back to mainstreet, but by then the town was already half depopulated.

When the malls start shutting down the same thing is going to happen to rural towns all across the country.

resar posted:

Its good because they are all sexist racism monsters.

The Brown Menace posted:

So everyone is gonna live in a big city? Good.
:demsay:

Lastgirl posted:

payless shoes has such limited selections and you can find way more things online for cheaper and better looking sandals and heels

also if brick and mortar stores are closing, even more low skill labor will be replaced by automation such as inventory and shipping for online places so you're going to have a bigger displacement of labor forces in the upcoming decades.

trucks will be self driving to different online retailer warehouses, which is self automated and dispenses its inventory accurately into different sections and loaded onto the trucks by robots


imo dont save the malls, malls are a blight on the land

call to action posted:

It's a bad thing because these malls killed Main Street, and now there's nothing left in these towns. Older malls in particular used to bring in a lot of tax money, too, before developers got smart with PIFs and made the shoppers pay for it all.

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now you say that but do you actually care to save the malls then

Because I suspect on some level you're on team Die Malls Die

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The real reason nobody goes to malls is that wages have been stagnant for decades, and nobody wants to finance consumption through credit any more. Capitalism is hollowing out its own consumer base, meaning more and more of our energies are being directed towards servicing the desires of the capitalists who stole our wages to begin with. If malls survive it'll be because they're renting out space to churches or commercial interests.


Well without income or welfare, I guess you just die.

Badger of Basra posted:

could it not just be that people don't like going to the mall anymore

Badger of Basra posted:

could it not just be that people don't like going to the mall anymore

etalian posted:

Stuff like Amazon prime pretty much destroyed the concept

etalian posted:

Lolling how the mall was invented by a austrian jew who wanted to capture the organic feel of old european cities but ended being turned into a grotesque american concept.

The Brown Menace posted:

guess what else was invented by an austrian jew and turned into a grotesque american concept

The Brown Menace posted:

guess what else was invented by an austrian jew and turned into a grotesque american concept

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

I used to live one county over from Nowata, Oklahoma, which became infamous for being one of the first towns that was destroyed by Wal-Mart. They moved a shopping center into the area, which wiped out all of the mainstreet businesses - but after a decade they decided that there wasn't enough of a consumer market to support the store - so they closed up and left the economy in complete ruins. It took another decade before businesses came back to mainstreet, but by then the town was already half depopulated.

When the malls start shutting down the same thing is going to happen to rural towns all across the country.

The Muppets On PCP posted:

rural depopulation's been a thing for a couple generations now

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

This isn't the inevitable march of progress towards urban concentration, it's an unemployment crisis.

The Muppets On PCP posted:

yeah because agricultural jobs have largely been mechanized over the past half century, and the ones that aren't are mostly poo poo handled by migrant workers or prisoners

dying malls has gently caress all to do with why people are leaving the sticks

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Maybe those century long processes aren't relevant to what's happening in the present, is my point.

The Muppets On PCP posted:

they absolutely are

the one thing that made living in rural areas possible for working people i.e. work has largely disappeared

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

There isn't anything to live on in the urban areas either.

Stale Saltines posted:

Scrub-Niggurath posted:

That's just flat out not true. You can make a point about rent rates being too high or something but there's jobs in the cities

quote:

https://medium.com/@Brookings/americas-male-employment-crisis-is-both-urban-and-rural-60078600e83b#.gv1gcxen8

...

Rates of work among prime-aged men are below average in both cities and smaller, less urbanized communities. The latest available data, which reflect conditions between 2010 and 2014, indicate that slightly over 80 percent of all prime-aged men nationwide were working during that time.[2] Prevailing rates were lower, however, in both large cities and smaller, less urban communities (Figure 2). In big cities and smaller metro areas, 79 percent of prime-aged men were employed during those years. The shares dropped to 75 and 72 percent, respectively, in micropolitan and rural areas.



...

Low rates of work among prime-aged men also affect many big cities with diverse populations. Among the 139 primary cities, 18 exhibited employment rates below 70 percent for these men from 2010–2014. Interestingly, Rust Belt cities — including three in Ohio and one each in Michigan and Pennsylvania — figure most prominently among those with very low prime-aged male employment rates. Other racially segregated cities in the Northeast (Hartford, Newark, Rochester, Springfield, and Syracuse) exhibit similarly low rates of work among these men.

Employment rates among men fell dramatically in smaller communities, but rose in cities. Considerably lower rates of work among prime-aged men in micropolitan and rural areas reflect a long-term decline in their employment. From 2000 to 2010–2014, the share of males ages 25–54 who were employed dropped by 4.8 percentage points in micropolitan counties, and by 5.4 percentage points in rural counties (Figure 4). By contrast, employment among this group in cities rose by 2 percentage points during that time and fell only modestly in high-density suburbs. This suggests that a community’s level of urbanization was closely related to its employment outcomes for prime-aged male workers.



...

Many cities saw equivalent gains in employment rates among this group, including the largest (New York), second-largest (Los Angeles), and fourth-largest (Houston) cities in the country. Some of the changes in non-metro areas and cities may be attributable to changes in the strength of local economies and their demand for workers. At the same time, the changes may also reflect shifts in the underlying populations of those areas over time, as small communities lose more employable residents to out-migration and big cities gain them through in-migration. Notwithstanding those widespread gains, older industrial cities like Akron, Allentown, Augusta, Detroit, Syracuse, and Tacoma experienced declines in prime-aged male employment similar to those occurring in rural areas nationwide.

...

Big cities remain home to more out-of-work prime-aged men than other types of communities. As shown in Figure 2, prime-aged men in cities exhibited below-average employment rates in 2010–2014, as did those in small metro areas, micropolitan areas, and rural communities. This finding — combined with the fact that primary cities are the most populous of the seven community types analyzed here (see Figure 1) — shows that cities contain a larger number of out-of-work prime-aged men than any other community type (see Figure 6). An estimated 2.9 million non-working males ages 25–54 lived in big cities in 2010–2014. The next-largest group occupied small metro areas, followed by high-density and mature suburbs. If micropolitan and rural areas are considered together, they still contained fewer out-of-work prime-aged men than either primary cities or small metro areas.



...

In the wake of the election, analysis has focused on the white working class and how to alleviate the economic distress facing the smaller communities in which many of those individuals live. But just a year and a half ago, the conversation focused on urban places like Baltimore and Ferguson, where tensions between communities of color and law enforcement exposed longstanding economic frustrations. Addressing the employment challenges faced by both types of communities will take serious, long-term commitment and public policy focus untethered from the news cycle.

Badger of Basra posted:

so do you think the government should be subsidizing malls as a jobs program or what