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AceOfFlames posted:Between children becoming an economic drain since the days in which they served as free labor for the family farm and current concerns about climate change and how future generations will live much worse and poorer lives, how is it justifiable to continue to have children? Easily. It feels better without a condom. Good thread, hope for you in the future.
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Mar 29, 2017 20:09
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OwlFancier posted:That procreation produces magnitudes more suffering than violation of bodily autonomy. in the same way it's ethical to violate someone's bodily autonomy by arresting them if they show evidence of intent to harm others, it is ethical to do so if they show evidence of intent to create life that will primarily suffer. Bodily autonomy is not inviolable, it is simply desirable to preserve it without a good reason not to. You do know that the ultimate conclusion of that logical train is shooting you in the face, right? I mean misery isn't like gravity, it's not some universal truth. If people are too ignorant or deluded to know how poo poo their life is they aren't actually suffering. You on the other hand have openly come out with the statement that living in the world is horrific. So we can't say that sterilizing the world would be an act of mercy, because we can't actually say that any particular future child would suffer, but we can say that you view the world as full of suffering, and thus killing you would reduce the total of suffering in the world.
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Mar 31, 2017 06:04
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Guavanaut posted:Except if we conclude that the majority of the non-consensual suffering that is involved in bringing a living being into existence revolves around their eventual death and the immediate beforehand That's stupid, it's not like everyone lives to 80 with a broke mind making GBS threads themselves unloved in a medical facility. Lots of folks just have their heart pop suddenly while in the middle of doing something else. There's no reason to judge death as a primary cause of major suffering. OwlFancier posted:If I torture you, then wipe your memory, then leave you be for a day, then torture you again, then wipe your memory again, then give you another day, and I do this for years on end, with the net effect being that you are living in intense suffering, but your inability to build an accurate perspective of your life (because of the selective memory alteration) means you don't perceive it that way, are you or are you not suffering? I would take the position that you are, regardless of whether you are aware of it after the fact. And the fact you think like this is really just another reason to kill you. A brain shouldn't have to deal with that poo poo rattling around inside it, it's cruel. quote:And you could shoot me but, I think, the key point is simply to ensure that I don't procreate, which you could do by shooting me but as I'm not going to anyway that would be a bit superfluous. I'm going to die anyway in a comparatively short amount of time so there's very little need to accelerate that. If you're trying to minimize suffering you would be better served convincing people not to have children rather than going out and shooting people, which does cause rather a lot of suffering because people who already exist have relationships and things, they can be missed, a person who never existed cannot. No, it's easier and kinder to kill you. Then you are done, instantly, and there's no more suffering for you. It's probably cheaper and faster than trying to setup a single sterilization too. Really zero downside. I mean if we've already established that life is so hellish there isn't a reason to bring *new* life into the picture, there's no reason to care about a minuscule amount of new suffering your death would cause people around you. We've already reached peak suffering, "Life is not a worthwhile endeavor". "New people shouldn't live, but I should be able to just quietly check out naturally" is loving hypocrisy. You aren't special, you are exactly the same as all those new lives that could be. If they shouldn't live because life is ultimately bad news, you shouldn't live either.
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Mar 31, 2017 23:28
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OwlFancier posted:I won't live, and neither will anybody else alive today for more than 100 years at best, the question is whether we will be replaced or not. You could also not live for the next 100 seconds, I don't see a reason to prolong your suffering.
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Mar 31, 2017 23:42
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OwlFancier posted:Bud if you want to jerk it to the idea of shooting me in the head I'm not gonna stop you but I don't super want to be involved. You're all hosed up from years of torture, I don't see the reason to think you are a rational actor. If life is effectively the basement pit from the Silence of the Lambs, not killing you is the ethical version of looking down at that poor woman as she goes "It's cool, I'm sure this will resolve itself eventually, and hey this guy has really good lotion!" and then walking away. Theoretical future suffering of the unborn is just that, theoretical. Your suffering is real and immediate. I honestly don't know how you can ethically justify anyone allowing your suffering to continue.
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Mar 31, 2017 23:57
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Helsing posted:Mulva stop being a weirdo. Nah, anyone that gets into a discussion with a starting position of "When you think of it maybe sterilization is a kindness?" should be constantly reminded of the nearest tall buildings around them and the cheapest ways to get some inert gasses. If you can't justify killing yourself you are really just an rear end in a top hat when you try to deny life to others. It's "gently caress you got mine" in existential value of existence form. And it deserves zero respect. Kill the rich, no matter the nature of their temporal wealth.
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Apr 1, 2017 00:05
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Alienwarehouse posted:You might as well enjoy a hedonistic lifestyle as much as you can while it's still possible. What the gently caress is the point of that if I can't bare nut in random chicks and walk away from any resulting children?
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Apr 1, 2017 08:57
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