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AndwhatIseeisme posted:So how come Adam can teleport spam all over the place? What technological bump did the aliens bring to the table that allows "magic light teleportation" to be a thing? Or "live birth" for that matter, I guess. This seems a little fantastical. Wait. You were ok with the sun now constantly being in the sky but not rotationally locked or otherwise roasting all life, the teleporting telekinetic weapons and the endless ammo, but the weird not-an-android mitosis is a bridge too far?
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Apr 24, 2017 16:32
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Zagglezig posted:I wonder a bit about how long this has been a thing machines have been doing. 9S was familiar with the speech phenomenon and the giving birth thing is obviously new, but I wonder if there was maybe some issue in the past as well that maybe ties into the whole "emotions are prohibited" rule. I mainly wonder about the latter cause, why do you need a rule? I get the impression 2B is trying and failing to play at being an emotionless murderbot.
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Apr 29, 2017 05:19
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9S's constant insistence that machines don't have sapience is pretty obviously self-serving bullshit. He's not even consistent about it up to this point - he'll claim machines have no sapience but then he treats Pascal like an individual with thoughts and feelings. I like how the game doesn't even pretend to make it some big twist. It's always about not the reality of machine personhood, but the validity of individual actions.
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May 19, 2017 17:44
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vilkacis posted:This line sticks out to me since 2B is Not Good At Being An Emotionless Killbot.
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May 25, 2017 22:49
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Eopia posted:He only managed to backup 2B, he was restored from a pre-mission backup. Which still leaves the 'Why didn't they just restore the deserter from a pre-mission backup as well?' question open. I'd assume that she might well be somewhere else. I mean, 4B is evidently assigned to a different base altogether, even though she was previously flying alongside 2B. Continuity of personhood is weird with YoRHa androids, especially seeing as literally any time 2B and 9S fast travel they're having the Transporter Problem. But the androids do seem to have some continuity of self - 9S doesn't remember dying in the prologue but he's seemingly basically the same dude and is treated as such by 2B, not an identical clone. Mind, every YoRHa android apparently has the material cost of the equivalent of a fighter jet, so bodies aren't cheap. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jul 8, 2017 |
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Jul 8, 2017 21:59
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Forgall posted:God, it's such a stock jrpg villain speech. Taro has always excelled in passion and sincerity more than merely originality.
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Jul 27, 2017 22:38
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McDragon posted:Oh sure 9S, machines are fine now you are one. Eh, they're "fine" now that he's overwritten the residual data of their deceased minds! Besides, he'll just self-destruct as soon as he's got a decent bandwidth connection. Ultimately Bad Machines were destroyed and thus there is no inconsistency at all in an ageless war machine built to destroy all threats to humanity despising other ageless war machines built to destroy and hellbent on extermination of all who stand against them!
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Jul 29, 2017 19:37
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Stephen9001 posted:I think someone mentioned this earlier in the thread and said it seemed an appropriately Drakengardy thing to him to him. His plans achieved the opposite of what he intended, which I'm pretty sure is a thing in a weapon story or two. Taro mask weapon story when?
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Aug 10, 2017 03:44
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Gaslighting, violation of personhood, enabling the aforementioned, and treating someone else as a tool for your own prosperity while manipulating them with (possibly true?) claims of love. And nobody really treats it as anything unusual. (Hell, almost EVERY romantic relationship so far has had undertones of darkness and sadomasochism. Hmm.) Drakenier! Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't all android and possibly machine technology use magic?
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Sep 7, 2017 21:17
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WrightOfWay posted:I'm pretty sure Dante gets impaled at least once in every Capcom DMC game. Only the good ones. Was DMC2 made by Capcom? I forgot? And yeah, the thing is, characters like Dante or Leon are written with the author knowing full well that: A: They are extremely competent badasses who are among the most dangerous things in their games. B: This does not stop them from frequently being doofuses who do make mistakes, mess up, or generally be goofballs trying a bit too hard. C: Without the latter, the former could easily be intolerable.
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Sep 16, 2017 23:20
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Chokes McGee posted:Counterpoint: the Androids are basically humans with beepy boopy parts in them so... Maybe humanity survives in a way? This is my read. Supplementary material has pointed to androids being increasingly humanlike in functions and tasks they can perform - basically the only thing they can't do is have children. But emotionally, androids are still, well, rather childlike in many ways. They're programmed to help humans. So they need a humanity to protect, and the soul searching that they'd need to go through to really come to the conclusion that humanity lives on in them is potentially catastrophic.
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Oct 11, 2017 19:09
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I always assumed 6O was one of the nameless operators you cut down during the escape sequence. God, the Machine Network are sadistic little shits. They're loving this - you really need to hear the voice they use (which sounds like it might actually be 6O's voice, holy crap) to get the sense of just how much childlike spite they display in this sequence. If Pascal and co are innocence in a positive sense, the Machine Network are the dark side.
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Oct 22, 2017 21:52
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Interesting and sad that, despite being very obviously infected, and for that matter being a less advanced model with presumably weaker firewalls and defenses, the Commander manages what none of her subordinates do: she never attacks 2B and 9S. Even the Operators don't manage that and they're literally not built for combat. She just walks back into the control room to die. 
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Oct 23, 2017 16:05
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Sax Solo posted:I really love the effect of the repeated title, also the repeated SHMUP segment. Route A starts with the SHMUP drop, and in Route B you see it from 9S's point of view. In Route C it's just another drop from space SHMUP segment, it's definitely the third cycle, but poo poo is all wrong, it's not fun anymore it's scary. Personally, I think Routes A and B are really necessary to the game's punch. You can't be upset when likable people start unfairly dying without having been given time to like them.
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Oct 23, 2017 17:33
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MysticalMachineGun posted:
Remember we have prior instances of androids storing their memories in their weapons.
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Oct 23, 2017 23:39
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Route C: 9S's No Good, Very Bad Day I find the symbolism of the Flooded City very suitable here. 9S mentioned that the bedrock had been bombed out in the last big war. The entire City area you spend the game in is doomed to disintegrate and collapse into the sea. Which seems very fitting for the existentialist tone of the game.
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Nov 3, 2017 18:28
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Is it really desertion if you're basically doing the exact same thing you'd have been ordered to do? It's more like counterfeit machine murder? Unlicensed machine murder? Theft of brand?
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Nov 6, 2017 01:06
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...! posted:The pods have called her "YoRHa unit A2" a couple dozen times now, along with many other people referring to her as YoRHa. The distinction seems more physiological than cultural. A2, 2B and 9S are internally different in anatomy and functionality than the models the Resistance belong to. (They mention that androids are regularly working on modifying themselves to be more human. The only thing they actually can't do is have children.) So A2 is YoRHa model, but doesn't actually belong to YoRHa. Just like White is actually an older generation model but belongs to YoRHa. In a world of mass produced chassis, IFF signal may actually be more important to individual identity than faces or bodies.
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Nov 15, 2017 21:43
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chiasaur11 posted:2B and 042 respected each other too much to be this fun. He's kind of right. A2 has many good points, but she's not really very smart.
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Nov 17, 2017 01:30
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Momomo posted:Yeah, the idea is that Pascal taught them fear, but not how to deal with it. They end up getting so scared that they just want to not be scared anymore, and killing themselves is the only way to do so. This is an entirely believable response from severe trauma. There does come a point where the world seems so unthinkably, overwhelmingly painful that your only escape from the eternal terror is suicide. I've encountered suicidal ideation in seriously traumatized people like this (though never felt it myself) before. If the kids' committing suicide doesn't make sense to you, well, I'm glad you've never encountered people in that level of despair.
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Nov 25, 2017 22:07
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alexminor posted:I think one of the keys people aren't discussing much in regards to 2b and 9s is they may also be lacking empathy because there is nothing to live for. Most of the robots who appear to have emotions are dead, they were responsible for making parts to keep the resistance camp androids running. The androids are mostly dead and the ability to make new ones dead. Aside from revenge there really is no reason for them to continue living. So everything they do should be viewed from that angle. I don't think there's any evidence that the androids as a whole are incapable of reproduction. It's specifically YoRHa androids that got wiped out - a specific faction thereof. Androids and machines make up worldwide civilizations. That said, 9S, 2B, A2 and Pascal are all seeing their worlds disintegrate. What are the other androids to 9S? Nothing. YoRHa is all he's ever really known, and it's been obliterated in the cruelest way possible. He also has said outright he expects to die soon. He's not fighting to keep living. He's fighting to make the machines pay as a last defiant act before he dies.
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Nov 26, 2017 10:46
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It pales in comparison to the what the christ of the mind wiped Pascal selling machine cores (though I didn't really feel much about the other parts, since machines use modular parts and don't seem to have a taboo against their reuse) but 4S's utterly calm acceptance of his own imminent death is pretty sad anyways.
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Nov 28, 2017 16:58
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amigolupus posted:I don't know, I just don't see 4S accepting his death or something. He seemed to be more "Welp, HQ's hosed so might as well work with the Resistance and help however I can." Sure, he's still fighting an endless war against the machines, but 4S seems to be in a much healthier place than 9S. Point. Maybe I'm reading more despair into the text than was meant. I got a vibe of "Well, everyone I know and love is dead, my HQ is destroyed, and I can't expect repairs or resupply. May as well be useful for the Resistance until I die." chiasaur11 posted:Ah, the classic argument school of "nuh-uh!" 5. YoRHa look sexualized. This is very, very intentional. There is a very strong erotic undertone to nearly all of Nier: Automata. Think about how consistently androids are portrayed as A: passionate, albeit often in defiance of emotions being "prohibited," B: deeply messed up, and C: somewhat sadomasochistic. Taro constantly uses sex in his games. Nier: Automata is no exception. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 29, 2017 |
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Nov 29, 2017 17:23
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darealkooky posted:don't pretend that at least 25% of this games sales weren't entirely because 2B has a phat rear end, something can have lots of deep meanings within the greater narrative AND be a great marketing hook. Well, yeah. And Taro certainly never has shown any shame about churning out what people want. I include 9S in the statement that YoRHa are sexualized, though.
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Nov 29, 2017 17:35
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Dabir posted:It's the exact same situation. They're identical, at their base state, to the one that screwed up. They're not people, they're machines, they're equipment. Look at that Samsung phone that started catching fire recently, sure yours might not have caught fire but you wouldn't walk around with it in your pocket all day because it's the exact same model as all those other phones that did, and what if... Way to totally miss the entire point of a story about humanity in synthetic beings, agency and existential angst.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:15
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I like the part where 9S comments the Network is just messing with him, because it is. It's mocking his every attempt, with 2B, to find meaning or connection to the machines by hinting that yes, everything they thought they were doing to help individuals may have just been a sick attempt to gently caress with them. The Soul Box is where the Network's sadism towards 9S goes into overdrive. It's deliberately dribbling out things just enough to unbalance and hurt him and he's not doing very well to begin with. The whole affair is intended to tell 9S: You don't matter. Your entire world doesn't matter. The woman you love doesn't matter and we're going to take even the memory of her from you. You're discarded trash. Now what are you going to do? I mean, when you get right down to it, the Resource Collection towers aren't intended to stop 9S, they're meant to egg him on and eat away at his mind. He really, really needs to take a breather and rest, but he can't do that because everything they're doing is designed to keep him too angry to stop. The Network are sick fucks, and the chests to "reward" 9S for your actions in the sidequest are a great use of game design for narrative purpose. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 08:10
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jyrque posted:Hey, he stabbed her by his own volition. I'll repeat something I said earlier: textually, androids are sadomasochists. Jackass says so outright. Factor this into 9S's disintegrating sanity and the things Adam told him earlier. 9S is a decent kid, but there is some DARK poo poo in his brain, and he's just suffered incredible mental trauma.
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Dec 5, 2017 17:09
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Hunt11 posted:I don't think the meeting between A2 and 9S could have gone any worse without one of them literally dying. In one fell swoop, A2: * denied 9S any sense of bittersweet closure at putting his adopted mother figure out of her misery * viscerally killed another person 9S loved (seriously, it's not a mercy killing at all; Taro does not mess around at how violent death is ugly) * reinforced 9S' impression of her as a brutal sadistic tormentor * Didn't even really bother to explain why she mercy killed 2B, leaving instead with a pointlessly cryptic comment seemingly designed only to make him feel worse. A2 is FRACTALLY, inexcusably bad with people, to the point that I think she's a deliberate takedown of the mysterious loner type. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Dec 8, 2017 |
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Dec 8, 2017 23:33
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Dr. Snark posted:When I saw this scene I was like, "Dear god, is there any way 9S can suffer more at this point?" Then I remembered, "Of course, this is He's there. The machine network doesn't seem to have a particular grudge against 9S, so much as just the cheerful sadism of angry, malicious children. He's just a toy for them to gently caress with.
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Dec 8, 2017 23:37
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we're talking about here."
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...! posted:I was always under the impression that 21O asked to be turned into 21B so she could physically protect her son Nines in a way. I figured it was more that she had just never bothered to fix any of the damage to her frame. A2 seems to be a death seeker. It's not entirely clear how human androids' physiology is. Per Taro, they can mostly do everything humans can do, so that implies the skin and fleshy bits aren't purely vestigial.
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Dec 8, 2017 23:43
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U-DO Burger posted:A2 was probably trying to help 9S become a good person by killing 21O so he didn't have to do it himself Well, yes, but it also means he doesn't even get to do 210 the service of killing her when what's left of her mind is begging him to do that. Which means the grief just keeps festering. A2 is Bad With People.
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Dec 9, 2017 00:00
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And the blending of android love and sadism is complete. That's the chilling thing about Kyle's acting here: 9S is still very obviously in love with 2B even as he butchers her copies. His tone is uncomfortably close to lust. It's like Taro saw the usual "stake the loved one" plot beat and said, "that's really hosed up! Lemme show you."
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Dec 14, 2017 17:35
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Dr. Snark posted:Waaaaaaay back when Jackass mentioned that a core part of android programming was that violence generated a feeling akin to love. And...well...she wasn't exactly wrong given this... Yup. And yet, it's totally in keeping with both the series' blunt sexuality and the game itself.
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Dec 15, 2017 00:01
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I love the visual language here in 9S's continued degradation. He's a matched pair for A2 by now.
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Dec 18, 2017 03:38
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KamikazePotato posted:Lost among all this existential exposition and emotional turmoil is the fact that 9S just beat the crap out of a bunch of flight units. Suicidal murderlust is a great force multiplier.
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Dec 18, 2017 04:40
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Omobono posted:I think it's explained in extra materials that Scanner models don't have melee combat capabilities, they can't equip or wield melee weapons.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:20
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Kase moch posted:Screwing with completionists is all well and good, but at some point it hampers the player's enjoyment of the game. Knowing at least some sidequests would simply punish me for trying them made me skip any that seemed overly difficult, and led to missing a fair bit of content that would've fleshed out the story a little. Would've been nice for the game to have indicated "doing this sidequest gives a reward" and "doing this sidequest is for idiots whom the developer hates".
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Jan 18, 2018 18:41
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:If Emil clones are to be considered as any less than the original, then I've got bad news for 2B and 9S. Uh, well, I suppose it doesn't matter all that much for 2B anymore, but 9S might want to be careful around those vending machine teleporter things in the future. Wow, it's like you literally have taken the exact OPPOSITE message from this game. I love how this game can be summed up as "P-zombies are bullshit."
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Jan 19, 2018 09:29
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This area is harrowing and all. But on the other hand, it's not like a bunch of machines are also grade-A dicks twisted with hatred and sadism by the forever war.
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Feb 10, 2018 00:49
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The sass you get if you lose the fight is hilarious.
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Mar 1, 2018 09:01
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