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Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Rhyno posted:

I got waaaay too into the Matrix when it came out so my dad bought me a "Philosophy and the Matrix" book and jesus christ the author was so far up his own rear end.

So it was by the writers (and therefore directors) of the sequels.

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Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Roth posted:

Sorry guys, but you all need to read my thesis on how superheroes are fascists.

Lol if you are a grown man still reading juvenile power fantsasies.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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CapnAndy posted:

Both parts of that headline are true, though?

They are true but they don't really relate to one another unless the Hugo Awards are awarded to the best selling titles.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Skwirl posted:

I bet there's a quantifiable effect on sales when you slap a "Hugo Award Nominee" or even better "Hugo Award Winner" sticker on a trade paperback.

Possibly. It kind of reminds me of shows like Arrested Development which would get nominated (and sometimes even win) a bunch of awards but were never big ratings winners and were always on the brink of cancellation.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Considering how much comics were influenced by science fiction pulp stories and many early creators were complete sci fi nerds you would think there would be a closer relationship between comics and the hugos.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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The thing that I find interesting about the Vertigo line (as well as a few other titles outside of DC comics proper) is that they seem to attract a different market and therefore do well at book stores (at least in the past when book stores were a thing). The Vertigo stuff, and pre Vertigo stuff like Watchmen and the likes interested the more "mature" reader, that is an older crowd than the usual teenager reading comics in the 90's, so those older readers would be able to pick up those books in book stores and such.
I don't think Marvel has really tried this as they try to focus almost exclusively on their superhero stuff (even with stuff like the Max line) so DC really tapped into a well with their Vertigo line that Marvel just didn't seem interested in following with.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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CapnAndy posted:

DC loses the rights to Watchmen if it ever goes out of print, so they had that early lesson in keeping certain TPBs on store shelves forever.

To be fair I don't think DC nor Moore thought that Watchmen would be so popular that it would stay in print forever. If people stopped buying it it would probably go out of print.

As far as non-Vertigo DC mainstays there is Dark Knight Returns and Kingdom Come that come to mind. Some others probably include stuff like All Star Superman, Batman: Year One, Killing Joke, Planetary, Batman: Black and White, the Loeb/Sale Batman stuff, Batman: Black Mirror, Batman and Superman: Earth 1 GN.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Roth posted:

Yeah, if I remember right they created some new suoervillains named after the Horsemen of the Apocalypse and had them ruin Bkack Adam's life for some reason.

I always felt that was the weakest plot of 52, but at least it had Dr. Sivana carve up a turkey with a chainsaw while laughing maniacally.

I thought it was an awesome plot that went in a direction that I didn't really care for. Initially when introduced it was an island filled with mad scientists given the money and resources to do whatever their crazy brains could think of, which is an awesome concept on it's own. Sadly it ended up being fairly generic, though the result of one of the experiments did provide for a truly shocking scene in the comic. Still the idea of an island just filled with mad scientists is really cool.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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First Second has been publishing some really awesome graphic novels lately too. Really recommend Sailor Twain and This One Summer

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Gaunab posted:

What are some good Batman stories? I've read Year One, Killing Joke, Knightfall, Dark Knight Returns, The Man Who Laughs, Monster Men, and The Mad Monk. I like the more grounded stories where he's on his own but I don't care about those things as long as the story is good.

Read Batman: The Cult and cry that Wrightson passed away this year.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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There is also Batman: Year 100 by Pope which is pretty good, Black Mirror by Snyder which has been mentioned before, Long Halloween and Haunted Knight by Loeb and Sale.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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You know, every few months or so we do these "recommend a Batman story" thing and while there is nothing wrong with these lists, I am also kind of curious about some anti-recommend Batman lists. Which stories should people avoid and why.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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El Gallinero Gros posted:

If Chuck Dixon wrote it, it's poo poo.

Outside of his politics which really didn't have any play in his actual comics his run on Nightwing and Robin are very well regarded. Even his Detective Comics and Birds of Prey runs were solid. It sucks that he is a right wing jerk but if you didn't know that about him you wouldn't really have anything against his comics.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Aspen comics is gonna be the new Image. I can just feel it.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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haitfais posted:

Avoid Hush if you're already familiar with the ins and outs of Batman and cape book story structure. It makes a half-decent "baby's first Batman," but the more comics you read, the more glaring its faults become.

Also, I can't believe I'm the first to mention Kevin Smith's Cacophony and Widening Gyre. If you like yourself, don't read them. In fact, you'd be better off never reading a comic with Smith's name on it. For a man who loves comics in general, and Batman in particular, he is really loving bad at writing them.

I read Cacophony and it was dire, and have heard only bad things about Widening Gyre, but I have also heard good things about his Green Arrow run and I seem to be one of the only people on this forum who liked his Daredevil run.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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purple death ray posted:

There's always people who insist that a terrible thing is actually secretly brilliant and amazing. Especially if it's spectacularly bad, bizarre and borderline incoherent- nobody's in here talking about how great the Onslaught storyline was. Mediocre stories don't inspire that kind of devotion. Hell look deep within yourself and you might find that you've got something like that of your own. (Mine is the movie Batman and Robin.)

It's just a thing nerds do.

cd.txt

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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X-O posted:

So was 9/11 the definitive line in Miller's career where everything before was good and everything after was complete garbage? Has he written anything good since?

You know that one scene in the Simpsons where Bart replays Lisa breaking Ralph's heart and saying "this is the exact moment you can see his heart break"? Well you can do the same thing but replace the video with DKSA and "Ralph's heart" with "Miller's brain".

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Edge & Christian posted:

I liked DK2 from the perspective of yeah, Miller definitely didn't want to do a real sequel to Dark Knight Returns and when he did, it was only natural that it was a reflection that a decade and a half had passed in comics, in Frank Miller's life, and in the world. As an almost MAD magazine send-up of SERIOUS MODERN COMICS it obviously kind of shits on the original work, but deliberately so. David Brothers wrote a fair bit about DK2 years ago when we both actually blogged about comic books, and I agree with pretty much everything he said. It's also worth noting almost the entire book was written (and drawn) prior to 9/11, so while that's a tidy narrative, it doesn't really work re: DK2.

As for All-Star Batman and Robin, another big two writer told me at a bar that when he e-mailed Miller to ask him how he felt about the book, its marketing, reception, and his hopes for the project, apparently Miller wrote back with

"Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$"

So make of that what you will.

This doesn't explain why the art got so bad half way through the run. Like there was a sudden lack of shits given halfway through and everyone just became elaborately boxed shape.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Lurdiak posted:

I hear Rhyno's store has a special room where you can cuddle with your anime pillows with other homestuck cosplayers for a small fee.

It would be wrong for Rhyno to close his comic shop because it is pro ably the only place that is keeping all the creeps in his neighbourhood off the street. By staying open he is doing a very important job for the community.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Rhyno posted:

I got engaged today!

Congrats dude. So you having Guy Gardner theme wedding?

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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I was checking to see if Simease Dream came out in 1994 but it came out in 1993. Sorry 1994, you were so close to being cool

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Teenage Fansub posted:

Not a bad movie year from what I've seen.


It was like comics and movies were heading in two different directions that year. Comics got stupider and more terrible, while movies were embracing the more indie gen-x vibe.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Guy Goodbody posted:

I read the first volume of Snotgirl, and really liked it. It's kinda like that manga No Matter How I Look at It, It's You Guys' Fault I'm Not Popular!, in that the main character is genuinely kind of a lovely person and a gently caress up, and most of her problems are of her own creation, but you still end up rooting for her at least a little. And the mystery is really interesting too.

I was pretty meh on Scott Pilgrim, so I'm surprised at how much I like Snotgirl

I quite liked Minutes so give that a shot.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Lurdiak posted:

I'm still seeing people all over social media talk about "the failure of the leftist ideology" whenever someone brings up Marvel's sales. :thumbsup:

Well I mean if you chose to ignore such thing like facts you too can jump to stupid conclusions.

By you I mean those silly people and not Lurdiak personally.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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What a bunch of old farts. And still reading comics no less.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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purple death ray posted:

Do you really want the kind of chick who only knows one Grateful Dead song though

Limp Bizkit. Our generations Grateful Dead.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Ghostlight posted:

Grateful Dead are actually much better than Limp Bizkit.

Grateful Dead never ignited a riot at Woodstock so....

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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Rooting for Lemire to win best writer for Black Hammer alone.

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Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

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I don't like him because of his stupid hair. That is the only reason I need. Luckily I don't need to look at his stupid hair when I read his comics so it is all good.

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