Hollow Knight - Little bugs on a grand adventure

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Hollow Knight - Little bugs on a grand adventure

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

lets hang out posted:

actually i was rewatching the scene when the dreamers show up and throw you into a dream world and they made it sound like your character crawled out of the abyss however long ago and just left the kingdom entirely. then i guess enough time passed for the kingdom to fall apart before they returned, drawn by the seal weakening but having forgotten everything like Quirrel.

here's a video https://polsy.org.uk/play/yt/?vurl=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FIIQaks_hHo8%3Ft%3D102

Yeah, but how? The Abyss was sealed shut.

# ¿ May 21, 2017 10:39

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 00:19

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Didn't the vision of the chosen vessel ascending end with the door slamming shut?

# ¿ May 21, 2017 10:55

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

lets hang out posted:

I figured Zote was related, just an unusually colorful failed attempt. There's another one impaled in the room where you first fight Hornet holding the dash item. Kind of seems like a ton of them leaked out.

Zote's Precepts refer to him having parents (who he hates, like everything else) so he's not another failed attempt.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 06:40

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Precept Eleven: Mothers Will Always Betray You. This precept explains itself.
Precept Forty-Three: Never Forgive. If someone asks forgiveness of you, for instance a brother of yours, always deny it. That brother, or whoever it is, doesnt deserve such a thing.
Precept Fifty-Two: Beware the Jealousy of Fathers. Fathers believe that because they created us we must serve them and never exceed their capabilities. If you wish to forge your own path, you must vanquish your father. Or simply abandon him.

I mean the father one could be the king, but the rest don't make sense. Especially #43, why would a Hollow Knight ask for forgiveness? They can't even talk.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 07:58

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Further evidence against the theory: Zote's face moves. Hollow Knights have masks.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 08:05

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Oxxidation posted:

All bugs have masks (and it's implied that they're all made and painted by that one loon in the Deepnest). The Hollow Knight just doesn't really have anything under the mask - it's mute because it doesn't even have a mouth. It can listen and it can see because that's all it needs to serve its purpose.

For that same reason there's no way that Hollow Knights would be found anywhere except in Hallownest, because they're mindless constructions of the abyss programmed to access the Black Egg and purge the infection. They don't really have "parents," they're voidstuff inhabiting the innumerable corpses cast into the Abyss and animated with the King's magic.

Where does the game say that all bugs have masks?

# ¿ May 22, 2017 21:31

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Oxxidation posted:

I could probably get one later tonight, but basically they've got faces the same color as their bodies and their eye sockets are swirly vortexes, kind of like pencil-scratchings.

That could just be the maskmaker, of course. He's a weird one.

I just got the impression that all the Deepnest bugs had masks, but not all the bugs in Hallownest did.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 21:58

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

JuniperCake posted:

If you are talking the traitor lord fight then the only way to save that npc is to not talk to them in the other zones so she never gets the courage to help you in the first place. Maybe you could do it after the fight?

If she's in the fight she will die. But I think that's the end of interactions with her either way but if it makes you feel better.

There are NPC storylines but you can't really change the way how they play out for the most part. Beyond little things like, you can choose to bring the delicate flower to elderbug for instance. (It doesn't stop you from completing the quest either, you just have to get a new flower.)

Well most of them anyways. Come to think of it there are two exceptions but they are for pretty minor characters.

Actually if you kill the lord fast enough she survives the fight.

# ¿ May 25, 2017 09:05

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Oh, I think I just misread the wiki page.

I thought it was dialogue for if she survived the fight, it was dialogue for if she doesn't take part in the fight.

Nevermind, I'm dumb.

# ¿ May 27, 2017 07:19

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Your options:

1) Continue struggling through Crystal Peak. There's a key movement ability available from the upper section and entrance to another zone in the lower right.

2) At the bottom of Fungal Wastes through the Mantis Villages is access to Deepnest. Deepnest is hell if you haven't upgraded your nail at least once.

3) If you have a Simple Key (one can be bought from Sly and one found in City of Tears), there's a passage downwards just to the left of the fountain in the City of Tears which unlocks a sewer level. Have fun.

I honestly really liked Crystal Peak and your other options aren't the best zones but you might like them more.

# ¿ May 29, 2017 23:21

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

SinineSiil posted:

Thank you, could you describe Deepnest Hell a bit? I have upgraded my nail once.
And also, how do I deal with Crystal Hunters in areas that have just few narrow platforms and death pit below?

Some areas of Deepnest have constantly spawning enemies that take about four hits to kill with an unupgraded nail. Other areas have an enemy that has a ton of HP, deal 2 damage and are only vulnerable for brief periods.

As for Crystal Hunters, you can reflect the shards they throw at you by hitting them.

Internet Kraken posted:

No, but after beating him the first time he runs away. He can be fought again in a nearby area that requires the double jump upgrade to reach. There's no real reason to feel obligated to fight his second form anytime soon, or at all. Its just the same fight but sped up with more damage and all he guards is a mask shard.

I feel like explicitly describing a boss fight and what rewards it has should be spoiler tagged.

# ¿ May 30, 2017 00:31

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

SinineSiil posted:

Beat the boss, got the upgrade and got out! Got second upgrade to my nail too!
I've heard that getting that upgrade changes something about the world though? I hope it won't get rid of any shopkeepers..

No shopkeepers disappear. Go pay a visit to the Crossroads though.

# ¿ May 30, 2017 21:31

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Eopia posted:

So one thing that confuses me is what exactly caused Hallownest's fall? After the Hollow Knight sealed away the radiance for however long it was before the game starts, the civilization apparently lasted long enough for a statue to be built for it, yet somehow Hallownest fell and the White King pulled his palace into the dream world and died for some reason even though the Radiance was gone at the moment?

The Radiance slowly leaking out just caused the downfall of Hallownest over time. For whatever reason the King left/died, which meant he wasn't able to take measures against it.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 00:55

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

I mean just because she thinks you could contain it indefinitely doesn't mean you could.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 01:11

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

They have the collective name Dreamers.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 01:39

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

But Bardoon says that those who succumb to the light are reduced to merely base instinct. Just because the moths themselves retained sapience doesn't mean all bugs did.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 02:00

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Maybe he thought it would make it harder to break the seals if one of the Dreamers was all the way in Deepnest.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 23:03

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

George Lazenby posted:

Hey, I'm one of the devs (William). You're right that Nosk turned out to be kinda underwhelming compared to its buildup. It's because when I came up with the idea of the whole lead-in, we were already wayyy beyond scope but I convinced Ari to let me do it by saying we could make the actual boss fight as simple as possible. I'm glad we squeezed that whole thing in, but yeah it makes for a bit of a dip in quality. I think I'm gonna sneak in a new move for ol Nosk in one of these content packs, try to do the poor guy justice.

It's been really great reading everyone's thoughts on the game by the way! I constantly lurk SA so I've been following the thread, but thought maybe I shouldn't jump in too much. I'm super happy people are getting into it though!

Please give lots of money to whoever did the voice of the Dung Defender.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 06:27

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

George Lazenby posted:

Haha man, thanks everyone! Heaps nice to hear you're enjoying the game. I've spent today doing dull business accounting stuff and bug fixes, so reading everyone's kind words is a nice pick-me-up. Gotta smash through this stuff so I can get back to the Hidden Dreams stuff.

We haven't done any write-ups or anything unfortunately. I considered it during development, but we just didn't have any time to dedicate to it. Also, this is our first proper game so I wasn't all that confident we could write anything particularly educational - a lot of the game was kinda put together on the fly and lots of it was based on intuition rather than particularly careful planning.

Haha, the Grub is me! I just did a Pikmin impression. Most of the voices in the game are me, Ari or Makoto (Ari's partner, the voice of Hornet). I had heaps of fun doing all the enemies and monsters and stuff, like the fluke monsters in the waterways and those mummies down in the crypts. Doing the Collector was great fun as well.

Hehe, that was me again! Another extremely fun voice to do.

Hmm, dunno. A lot of the voice work in the game (that we couldn't do ourselves) are just friends and family in our office's tiny kitchenette-thing. My Mum did a few, like the White Lady and Marmu - as a backer, she got to pick the design for Marmu so she sent us a photo of this dude:

My girlfriend did Iselda (the mapper's wife) - it was a sweltering Aussie Summer day, we were recording in a tiny room, and we had to turn the air con off so it wouldn't drown out the recording. We kept recording lines over and over, with me constantly telling her to sound more bored. So that bored/exasperated/irritated tone you get when you speak to Iselda is the real deal!

Out of curiosity, is there any pattern to the bug language gibberish? Or were people just told to make up their own words?

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 11:35

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

I really appreciate that the addition of a new stagway (guessing in the Ancient Basin) and a new way of traversing Hallownest seem to be a direct response to criticisms of the game. Devs that listen about issues and iterate their design based on them are the actual best.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 12:34

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Mindblast posted:

This is why I made screenshots like crazy. Steam is pretty handy like that!

Speaking of, is there any possibility that one of the content updates can include a "Hide UI" option? I'd love to get some desktop backgrounds out of some of the areas.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 12:41

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

The charm says that it contains the gratitude of grubs about to move on to the next stage of their life. The achievement is called metamorphosis. The grubs are fine, they're just going to become adorable grubberflies. :3:

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 06:34

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

imo the White Palace is good.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 08:42

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Dancer posted:

Hey we've kinda heard all those arguments before. Please don't start it up again. Some people like WP, you (and some others) don't. Can't we leave it at that?

how dare people post their opinions

George Lazenby posted:

Haha yup! My golden child/self insert.

You voiced the Dung Defender AND Zote? You are a true voice acting hero.

Also, seeing as you're adding features with the content packs, is there any possibility of a "hide UI" button for screenshots?

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 12:08

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

George Lazenby posted:

That's something else on my list of features to look at, yeah. A fair few people have asked for it, and I'd love to see the screenshots people grab with it. No promises, but it might pop up in content pack 1 or 2!

Also RE: White Palace. If it's any consolation, I had to play it through plenty of times myself without charms, and played harder configurations with fewer checkpoints haha. I'm not the one who designed it, so it was legit hard for me the first few times. I designed the Colosseum waves though, so if you raged out at the Trial of Fools you can blame me. I actually realised after release that I accidentally put in more enemies than I meant to in the bit with spikes at the bottom where you have to continually wall-jump. People dealt with it though, so oh well!

The question of whether White Palace is or feels 'optional' is pretty interesting. Originally it was more detached from everything, but then we decided it would be a bit sad if it only lead to a powerup or something so we started thinking about how an 'alternate' ending could work. The idea is that you could finish the game without ever doing the hardest bits, but you could get a different outcome if you went for it. So in our minds, or from our point of view, we were adding content to the game by putting in a new ending behind White Palace as a reward for people who do it. But from a player's point of view, this feels more like we've taken the 'proper' ending of the game and locked it away behind the white palace, making people feel like they HAVE to do it.

Not sure if that made sense, but It's an interesting difference between the perspective of us as devs and players that I've been thinking about recently a fair bit. Certainly a lesson I'll remember for future projects.

Oh and regarding which bosses must be fought to finish the game, I think the list is:

The two Elder Baldurs in Crossroads, the first Hornet encounter, Watcher Knights, Uumuu, Hollow Knight

Interestingly, you don't actually 'kill' anything in a few of those fights. So a pacifist run is almost possible!

So was originally the Hollow Knight the only ending? You had to maintain the cycle?

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 04:01

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Applewhite posted:

THE RADIANCE belongs in the real true final boss hall of fame if only for the badassitude of her intro. Seeing the Sun grow wings is a real "oh poo poo" moment in the best way. Pls make sure she makes a cameo in Wreck it Ralph II

THE RADIANCE is a drat good boss fight, especially after the disappointment of how easy the Hollow Knight was.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 04:14

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

I really like getting a serious platforming challenge. The game's controls are tight and fun enough that it deserved an area that really tests your skill at mobility.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 08:18

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Applewhite posted:

No! I am a serious gamer and I will play until my thumbs bleed if that's what it takes to get 3 extra seconds of footage after the credits!!! I find the existence of anyone who would do less viscerally offensive.

Well I have news for you then.

http://hollowknight.wikia.com/wiki/Mister_Mushroom

# ¿ Jun 12, 2017 11:31

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Ambivalent posted:

I think that is part of the point. You're supposed to feel disappointed if you just woke the dreamers and fought the Hollow Knight, skipping tons of zones. It's like if you just beat Richter in SotN and thought that was it.

Also if you just killed the dreamers and went straight to the Hollow Knight, you'd probably be a lot less powerful and the fight would be less disappointing.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 10:47

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

The most disappointing thing about the fight's difficulty is that everything else about it is rad. His moveset is cool, the music is fantastic, the way he starts out as a simple swordfight and his attacks become more and more infection-based as the fight goes on is absolutely awesome.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2017 11:25

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

guppy posted:

I hate multi-phase fights, everyone feels like they have to do them. I'm just as glad Hollow Knight wasn't a massive exercise in frustration.

Actually multi-phase fights are great.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2017 22:32

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

You have four options that I can see.

1) Beat the Soul Master, get a new powerup.
2) Go to the bottom of the Mantis Village for another boss fight that gives one of the best charms in the game and unlocks access to another zone.
3) Use a Simple Key (there are two available by now, one sold by Sly and the other sitting around in the City of Tears) at room to the left of the big fountain to unlock access to the Royal Waterways
4) Sell whatever relics you have to Lemm and buy a Lumafly Lantern, giving you access to Crystal Peak.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 00:30

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Because platforming is fun.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 12:45

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

myDad posted:

Did I miss something in Deepnest? I was at a loss for where to progress & saw a post about getting the Pale Ore from Deepnest.

I found a few benches, Harrah The Beast, and the Dream Nail, but didn't fight a boss. Maybe the path to the right of the bottom-most bench? I'll check it out

e: Or the Weaver's Den but that place looked tough

e: Pale King eh? Found em. What's with the fountain though? Don't really want to throw money in a fountain lol

The Deepnest Pale Ore is behind a hidden wall in the room to the left of the hot springs.

The fountain gives you a vessel fragment

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 00:43

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

skasion posted:

This was certainly an interesting decision by the developers. I was a bit let down the first time I got to one. I wonder if that was always part of the design -- the game definitely spends a good bit of time building them up as these legendary godlike figures and then...you just beat their comatose asses to pulp and suck their unresisting souls out.

I'm pretty sure that's an intentional decision. I'm guessing that the idea was that the boss fights were on the way to the Dreamers (uumuu, watcher knights) but whatever boss fight was guarding Herrah was cut. The "sit and rest" scene definitely felt like setup for a spooder boss that never happened.

dishwasherlove posted:

It's crazy that this game was created by such a small team.

I do not understand how their sole artist survived the trial of hand-drawing this entire loving game.

To add more to the mind-blowing achievement of this game, the kickstarter only got ~44k USD.

SirSamVimes fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Jun 28, 2017

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 06:13

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Gamerofthegame posted:

My key complaint with the game so far, beyond just hitting a dead end by virtue of an upgrade and having to kind of memorize what I might need to get past it hours later, is this fukken dark souls bullshit re:deaths

god drat

Losing nine hundred sparkly rocks in the early game because I started to get frustrated only leads to further frustration

the game gives you far more geo than you need for this exact reason

# ¿ Jun 29, 2017 04:46

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Pigbuster posted:

Will they be doing version 1 with the thorn charm glitch? I kinda stopped paying attention to that scene after I sped through the steel soul 100% run.

I thought it was gonna be any% glitchless

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 10:12

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Gamerofthegame posted:

Man. The Lost Kin fight really empathizes problems with the game's controls and how it moves. If they do a sequel of some sort I hope they dump it all and start from scratch; the good half second post-focusing before you can actually do any inputs, the rather large corner blindspots for your attacks and how murky changing your direction midair is for attacking makes that fight a pain just because of the blobs. The actual boss? Exactly the same, maybe double health.

The games movement and controls are both great and smooth and the Lost Kin is a super fun boss fights. :shrug:

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 00:38

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Ori is good, but Hollow Knight is far better in every way except maybe the platforming.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2017 23:21

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 00:19

SirSamVimes: Jul 21, 2008; ~* Challenge *~

Desperate Character posted:

heh, it happens to everyone. I remember when I never rented Psychonauts a long time ago because I thought it was a game about ants called Psychonants

i mean Raz and Misha sorta looked like ants from Bugs Life right?

also how are you supposed to find Hornet in Kingdom's Edge? I beat the game and went to almost every zone but I missed that fight entirely

She's not even hidden though? Like there's just one vertical passage in the open that requires a double jump.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 09:29

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