Hollow Knight - Little bugs on a grand adventure

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Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

There's an ingame plot explanation for the White Palace, including the traps. It fits quite well with everything else.

# ¿ May 18, 2017 02:06

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 17:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I am very curious about how to save a certain NPC that dies during a boss fight.

# ¿ May 25, 2017 06:16

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

SirSamVimes posted:

Actually if you kill the lord fast enough she survives the fight.

I'd love to know how to do this consistently.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 18:05

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Massive spoilers.

Insects exist and have minds and societies outside of Hallownest (The mantises and deepnest existed before and after, for example). The warning about bugs losing their minds appears to be specific to Void-created ("higher") beings. It also appears to be inaccurate, as the player character is identified as a void that is notable for having left Hallownest and come back.

The order of civilizations appears to be roughly as follows.

1. Void. ?????? There's a civilization down there somewhere, and it's antagonistic to the Radiance. Entities within the void, despite what other NPCs say, do seem to have some form of independent identity, but at the time of the game this is mostly as specks in a great mass. Snail imagery appears in a fair amount of Void civ stuff, sugesting ties to the Shaman npcs.
2. The Radiance. The Radiance probably destroyed the Void civilization. Radiance's rule is less a civilization than a horrifying mesmeric slave cult built on Radiance absolutely controlling everyone it touches. The moths were the main figures in that civilization.
3. Hallownest. Wyrm dies and is reborn as the White King. The King destroys the old civilization and forces Radiance into the realm of dreams. He builds a new civilization in Hallownest, which is really well-developed.
4. Radiance reasserts itself in the dreams of insects all over Hallownest, preying on their internal worlds and turning them against the King. The King, who appears to be immune to this, tries a number of different things to isolate Hallownest from the Radiance, some of them really desperate. These include, in roughly this order: killing dissidents who are being manipulated by the radiance, having a child with Harrah, the whole hollow knight thing, locking down the City, removing the Palace into a separate dream space.

Somewhere during 3 and 4, the King hits on using the Void to create servants for a number of different roles, a process that they don't seem to be exactly hostile to. It's worth noting that from things like the statue in the City, the King both respects void entities and does in fact view them as individuals, at least while they're masked.

# ¿ May 31, 2017 23:50

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

A part of White Lady's lines:

Do I seem prisoner here? If so, it's not by any choice but my own. These bindings about me, I've chosen to erect. There is some shame I feel from my own part in the deed, and this method guarantees it cease. I still feel that urge you see. I always will. A voracious desire to spread seeds upon the land, to propogate myself, to breed.

So it seems likely she's a plant or fungus of some sort.

I think that there are two ideas expressed by NPCs that should be considered unreliable:

1. The Hollow Knight (or other Void creatures) are truly "hollow". They seem to possess separate identity and agency, despite what others thought.

2. Radiance created anything. Seer quote:

The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still. They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time. But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king. How fickle my ancestors must have been. They forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even. And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal. But the memories of that ancient light still lingered, hush whispers of faith... Until all of Hallownest began to dream of that forgotten light.

Again from context, (and using the dream nail on posessed enemies helps clarify this), it's not so much that the Radiance truly created the moths as that they were its slaves. "basking in the light" means being possessed and controlled by it.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 03:24

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Relevant lines from Bardoon:
For quiet retreat did I climb up here, away from spitting creatures. Ormmph... Yes. High up. Away from simple minds, lost to light.
Theirs is a different kind of unity. Rejection of the Wyrm's attempt at order.
I resist the light's allure. Union it may offer, but also a mind bereft of thought... To instinct alone a bug is reduced...Hrrm...

Who are the other people our fungal friend is speaking to?

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jun 1, 2017

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 03:34

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

The statement is ambiguous when the source is unreliable. What do moths do with light?

Ambivalent posted:

some of his mushroom friends, I guess. They got kids and warriors and ogres, so they got some sorta structure.

Also Hallownest's Crown, on top of the Crystal Peak, could be a moth village or something? Definitely have that big Radiance statue which says 'Remember... Light...' when you nail it. But is there a Radiance/Crystal connection? Various NPCs talk about the crystals having light and a source of heat inside them, as well as whispers and dreams. Myla (the mining bug) certainly got all radiance'd up, but could just be from being in the Crossroads. otoh, Hallownest seemed to mine and use them for all sorts of stuff, including as energy.

Radiance infiltrates and consumes everyone through their personal desires and weaknesses. For the miners, it's the crystals, for the soul institute people, it's souls, for the maggot it's protecting its peers.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 08:54

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

The seer still buys into what the Radiance is selling. he/she still sees its influence as "worship".

...we need dream nail messages from more of the enemies and bosses, but they're a pain to get.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Jun 1, 2017

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 09:18

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Most NPC bosses discuss being led to the actions that cause their death by either delusions, or by prophetic dreams. Soul Tyrant discusses being led to the whole soul thing by a dream. Xero talks about being inspired to take up arms against the king in a dream that told him attacking would stop the infection. Infected low-level enemies think they are dreaming as they attack you.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 15:51

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Midwife indicates the spiders stopped reproducing because they were infected by the Radiance:

"Would you hear about myself? There's not much to say. I'm a servant to the nest, though few in recent times would seek my service. Our brood is lost to that pestilence of the mind. A sad fall for the most intelligent species."

Given that the deepnest used to be a functional part of the civilization (with a tram station and all), one possibility is that the Radiance reduced them to insane hunger. If so, this would seem to have happened after Hornet was created. Using the dream nail on spider enemies might provide some amount of clarification.

The Midwife talks about Herrah having both herself and the brood sacrifice something in exchange for Hornet, there's no indication that it's reproduction, or that the sacrifice the brood made was losing themselves to the Radiance.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 23:18

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'm going through taking screenshots of Dream Nail text from as many enemies as I can. There's a really impressive amount of variety here.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2017 07:34

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

skasion posted:

What are these things, anyway?

# ¿ Jun 2, 2017 22:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

The glowing tablets appear to specifically be for void beings created by Wyrm, which were the people whose minds were created by the mask maker. "ancient caste" might actually refer to the Void civ, who seem to have once occupied the entire playable area.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Jun 4, 2017

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 05:26

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'd love some additional, harder arena fights.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2017 02:58

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Not too subtle with who these are, eh?

Dream Defender and dream Zote

# ¿ Jun 7, 2017 23:28

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

skasion posted:

I'm really hyped that they're actually continuing to add to this game but I have to say I'm hoping for a few wholly new boss designs at some point and not just dream versions of stuff we've already seen. Or at least they could touch up bosses that are kind of underwhelming in the main game like Nosk or the big dumb jellyfish rather than bosses that are already cool and good. I guess dream Zote would have to be pretty original of necessity. Unless the "fight" is just you playing astral pinball with his limp, pathetic spirit.

given the angle of the sword he's holding and the shoulders, I think we're in for Giant Grimdark Beefcake Zote, who might be in Bretta's dream instead of his own.

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 00:45

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Thank you for this incredibly well-made game! Have you done any writeups of your design process anywhere? The level of careful, detailed design that's gone into every aspect of this is mind-boggling. I'm especially digging the use of enemies and maps as training for bosses atm.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jun 8, 2017

# ¿ Jun 8, 2017 05:06

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'd like to be able to spend money to fix up the starting town, and, eventually, Hallownest as a whole. Fix those broken fast travel places, clear out some of those corpses...gradually turn the game into New King of Hallownest simulator.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 06:53

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I've been thinking about possible challenge run configurations:
Minimal hunter's journal completion
No light item
No sword upgrades
No Grubs

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 13:12

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Large sections of the White palace can be skipped with some thoughtful use of charms, or with careful observation.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 20:53

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

In other news

1. I've been finding odd things to use the dream nail on and grabbing screenshots, clarifying some of the context of the Big Bad and the King.
2. I saw someone in a speedrun...escape during the False Knight fight. is it possible to break out of the room after the first "round"?

Some of the routes I'm identifying are making me curious about a minimum kills run. I'm realizing a remarkable amount of stuff is obtainable/reachable without any killing. I've been going down the list, and I'm not sure you have to kill anything, ever.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Jun 11, 2017

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 21:59

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

OK, is a pacifist run doable? So much of this seems by design. Let's set aside the dreamers. What else has to die at your hands to complete the game?

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 23:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Zinkraptor posted:

You have to beat the false knight, right? You definitely have to kill the bosses right before the dreamers, like the million rolling guys and the jellyfish. I might take a look at the map and try to figure out the others.

You don't have to beat the false knight- there are other ways into the city. I need to test the other two you mention.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2017 23:42

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Is it possible to bounce up the top of a certain lighthouse?

# ¿ Jun 13, 2017 10:28

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'm finding all kinds of interesting things with the dream nail, filling in some grey areas in the plot. Some useful info even came from one of the benign ghosts in the resting grounds!

# ¿ Jun 21, 2017 09:45

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Has anyone seen what happens if you rescue a certain damsel only after facing your superior, the True Hero, in the arena?

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 09:58

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

George, please add another, far more difficult, section after the White Palace where you have to do nothing but avoid Royal Retainers complaining at you about the White Palace.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jun 23, 2017

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 03:13

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I believe our fungal friend is actually speaking with a set of less-prominent NPCs. Secret ending/extreme spoilers ahoy:

1.Fungal Wastes:
...It's nice that you were able to help your friend. So you're not hungry any more?
Yes, that was quite the appetite. I was impressed. Still, we all move on sooner or later.

To greater things, perhaps? So much can be achieved in just a short time...

This appears to refer to Confessor Jinn/Steel Soul Jiji.

2. Kingdom's Edge
...Shouldn't trust the eye they gave you. Rely on your own instincts.
If you've got a keen nose, use it.

And while you're hunting for secrets, beware those who are hunting you!

This is probably Leg Eater, who discusses being able to smell the player.

3.Deepnest
...The dead can't make use of wealth in any case. What would they spend it on?

Yes, a big brood like that. They need food. And shelter. And toys.

If you keep some for yourself... Well, I think you deserve it. Yes...

This is Tuk, or possibly Leg Eater, the only two NPCs who obsess with money and appear to be robbing the dead.

4. Howling Cliffs
...What was called a "hero" in its moment may be called something very different after time has passed.
The crimes and triumphs of our predecessors echo all around us, don't they?

The chains of fate that bind us all together... do you really want to break them?

Unclear. Could be Lemm.

5. Ancient Basin
...Well if things are getting too dangerous down there, maybe it's time to take a break?
Come back up and spend some time hunting, or gathering, or wandering aimlessly.

No, not too much longer now...

Unclear, Cloth maybe.

6. Fog Canyon
...I haven't seen her, no. I'm sure you'll remember where you left her eventually.
Trust the moon, or yourself. Or trust her. You need to trust something, that's my point.

Hmm? No, not him. No. Absolutely not.

Unclear.

7. King's Pass
...It's not by tools that you'll triumph, it's through your smarts, your speed, your determination...

Unclear.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 11:38

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'd like to see some no-firefly runs, and, ooh, no bench run.

# ¿ Jun 26, 2017 07:04

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Has anyone tried using the dream nail in a dream warrior fight?

It appears likely by their design that the dreamers were never going to be bosses.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2017 02:48

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'm hoping Dream Zote is genuinely incredibly difficult.

But the other option would be great, too. I guess what I'm saying is I really trust the developers of this game.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 15:25

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Pigbuster posted:

Yup. I'm honestly unsure why that's in the game. It seems like it's a setup for a pacifist run but I don't think that's actually possible.

It's so, so achingly close, but alas, no.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2017 19:00

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

JuniperCake posted:

Yeah Kingdom's Edge was one of the last ones I found but that was because I put off Deepnest for a while. That said it has some of the absolute best music and atmosphere and it's absolutely one of my favorite zones. Deepnest for all as interesting as it could have been was just underwhelming.

There's just not enough content in Deepnest compared to other zones I feel despite having some cool npcs in it.

Have you found the hidden web?

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 5, 2017

# ¿ Jul 5, 2017 21:28

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

dancingbears posted:

I dunno about anybody else, but this doesn't sound too familiar. Could you elaborate, please?

There's a super-obscure room that teases a future DLC hidden inside a hidden area inside a hidden area in Deepnest.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2017 03:48

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

dancingbears posted:

Oh, the that place with the weird orb? I had forgotten about that thing! So that's what it was?

There's more to it.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2017 05:50

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Primal aspids:
1 wait for it to fire.
2 move a bit left or right.
3 attack.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2017 12:53

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Ambivalent posted:

Some folks found a new hidden room, maybe added with a recent patch?

VITRUVIAN GRUB, from near Collector's place.

That may be a map.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2017 13:58

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Ambivalent posted:

Some folks found a new hidden room, maybe added with a recent patch?

VITRUVIAN GRUB, from near Collector's place.

Also, I found a (new to me) scene when I killed Herrah last, and even waited until after beating Hornet and getting the King's brand. When I came out of Herrah's dream, Hornet was waiting there to talk to me and tell me some stuff about her mom...

Has anyone tried transforming in front of these?

# ¿ Jul 10, 2017 04:48

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Form of unn plus grub charm

# ¿ Jul 11, 2017 04:09

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# ¿ May 4, 2024 17:36

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

If you skip the fight with mr. skippable from the early game, is it possible to get to the secret area in the room without beating him?

Ambivalent posted:

What is transforming? If you mean focusing, then I have, yes.

I was thinking there was a Shape of Unn+ grub transformation, but there isn't. It may be worth trying some other things, though, such as the grub abilities.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2017 05:28

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