The democrats are a waste

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Tom Perez B/K/M? This poll is closed.
B	77	25.50%
K	160	52.98%
M	65	21.52%
Total:	229 votes

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Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Majorian posted:

I think they would have stayed home, by and large, or voted for Stein, or written in Clinton's name.

That popularity would probably not have continued to grow if Clinton had been removed from the nomination by the DNC.

Also this Hillary has her reputation in the shitter because of all the poo poo that has been revealed after the election. She was never liked but besides the lovely hangers on alot have given up on hercdue to these internal revelations. Her getting removed would have been a confirmation of Hillaries rants abot a vrwc. But now with Bernie being part of it. Alot would have stayed home.

Frankly as much as i love Sandrrs i think him by himsekf largely in office would not do us favors. This defeat made the left realise that centrists have been lying about their effectiveness and given progressive politics a new wind.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Apr 21, 2017

# ¿ Apr 21, 2017 20:13

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 17:18

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

NewForumSoftware posted:

Why change the subject? I'd really like to know what makes you think people would choose to let Trump take the Whitehouse? Do you think Bernie's messaging wouldn't have gotten to them? Abuela or bust? I imagine there's about as few people there as there are on St Bernards side.

People are spiteful. Especially when you remove their candidate on a technicality.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2017 21:10

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Nevvy Z posted:

The alternative is letting Republicans choose the Democratic candidate. I think it's a fair advantage.

yes so many gop guys will turn out in enough numbers to swing the primary.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2017 22:49

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Majorian posted:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the left would be wise to co-opt Obama. Turn him into the left-wing version of Reagan.

"Obama was a cool dude, wasn't he? We're doing what he REALLY wanted to do, but the mean ol' Republicans and Blue Dogs kneecapped him!"

I can get behind this. Hell I half suspect Obama might do it in his book in order to keep up his reputation. Maybe he'll say something about singel payer or Mdicare for all as having been impossible "then". But that people now see the truth. Or some other BS.

# ¿ Apr 22, 2017 08:40

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Majorian posted:

You know you're going to have to back up your assertions that leftist criticisms of Clinton played any meaningful role, right?

I'd really like him to explain how criticism in the primary is treason.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2017 00:36

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Majorian posted:

Yeah, once again, if anyone needs a reminder of why Jamelle Bouie and other liberal columnists are absolutely part of the problem...

This is why I keep telling my dad to stop reading slate

# ¿ Apr 23, 2017 01:13

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

SSNeoman posted:

Living in the past it is. You're talking about poo poo that was solved a decade ago. Seriously look at my previous link, he made those decisions back in 2008.

That poo poo happened so long ago that groups like PP and NARAL no longer care.

There is no conspiracy to use abortion as a wedge issue come on.

DOn't give me that poo poo. You lying creatures are using this as a wedge and you know it. Stop lying to us. This is why we have to force you guys out of the party. We don't need lying creatures in it.

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

They do this to themselves.

At least this rear end in a top hat is honest about using it as a wedge issue.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Apr 26, 2017

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 05:01

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

How am I making it a wedge when I'm the one accepting pro life Democrats? The people making it a wedge are those demanding the purge.

Really? I mean was it the left that demanded Mello be punished or was it Clintonites? I mean I think Kaine should be properly coralled so he understands that he no longer answers to the financiers. But I also am not going to move to primary him unless he starts some really blatant poo poo against the party.

I also love that some here seem to think that putting everyone they cannot agree with on ignore means they no longer have to actually deal with people challenging their views. I mean one comes to DnD to debate and discuss. If you ignore all you cannot agree with is there much of either going on? I am of course just making a observation.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Apr 26, 2017

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 05:22

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

What the poster who cannot deal with posters actually disagreeing with them saying is that they gladly have a double standard. That being that they'll care about abortion when it makes Bernie look bad.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 06:58

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/04/26/sanders-and-21-democrats-introduce-bill-to-raise-minimum-wage-to-15-an-hour/

In good news Bernie and prominent Dems are pushing for raising the minimum wage. Hope he keeps ensuring a united party commites to actually helping people. You know despite him being a racist sexist monster.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 17:29

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Nevvy Z posted:

It's clear that you are deliberately misinterpreting his words to make them out to be lies. Why undermine your own argument like that though? I disagree with many posters here on this issue, but i get their arguments. This argument is really obviously bad and disingenuous.

Isn't that what you do all the time? Also for you to accuse anyone else of being disingenuous. :lol:

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 17:32

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Condiv posted:

hmm, something tells me you're being disingenuous as usual

Remember he admitted to being that when it came to abortion and Mello.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 19:21

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Nevvy Z posted:

Wishing death on people because they disagree with you online. Truly The Enlightened Left.

Death? Thats horrible reeducation in the Alaskan tundra?

# ¿ Apr 26, 2017 23:42

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

JeffersonClay posted:

Only in this thread I guess?

I didn't know that allowing people to have a federal insurance program that would be subsidized by rich people taxes means wanting to get rid of Obamacare. Could you please explain how this weakens Obamacare?

# ¿ Apr 27, 2017 03:08

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

JeffersonClay posted:

Obamacare is a federal insurance program subsidized by rich people taxes. It just doesn't have a public option. A public insurance option wouldn't stop Wall Street from indefinitely profiting from sick people, though.

It would limit it. Which is a good start.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2017 03:18

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Ardennes posted:

The Democrats are harder to grasp because a portion of liberalism is certain respect for human rights, so it is far more difficult to understand how to balance that with their economic philosophy which is exploitative. Republicans obviously don't give a poo poo about much, for them against anything that gets in their way while Democrats try to dance around the subject. The Republicans are certainly more openly sexist, racist and homophobic, but in the end they are honest about their hatred while it is hard not to see the Democrats and many of their backers as two-faced.

I think a better world is possible and that the status quo is not working for humanity. We have reached the end of our tether as far as globalization goes, and we are skirting the edge of a much more desperate world. The problem is it is going to require both courage and leadership and something that barely exists in our political systems these days (even among the left-wing).

I am a bit more cynical. i believe that these people who now advocate for greed is good, at their core are rather evil. or at least the result of extremely bad upbringings where they didn't get proper discipline from teachers or their parents. To build a better world I really am convinced these people who see any regulation as an attack against them. Any expectation as a crime. Will have to be removed and made to learn what the authority figures in their young lives never taught them Because I believe if a new system is to come such people cannot be allowed freedom in it.

Kilroy posted:

If he's not going to argue in good faith then why should anyone else? gently caress him.

This. JC only care about his cheap clothes and cheap fruit.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 19:45 on May 13, 2017

# ¿ May 13, 2017 19:42

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

asdf32 posted:

The left needs to be on the side of workers which means dealing with the reality that "well regulated industry" and the capital it requires doesn't magic into existence. The history of its development has always included lovely factories Amd that's been true for the first world and socialist industrialization as well.

Until altruism can fuel multi trillion dollar transfers of wealth trade is the way for poor countries to get capital to within their borders and until they actually have well regulated industry labor may be their best export.

Actually that's horsehsit. The best way for a poor country to advance is to engage in central planning and industrialize from there. Certainly helped ROK.

# ¿ May 14, 2017 16:15

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

asdf32 posted:

Trade helped ROK.

Yes and so did not relying on foreign capital to industrialise.

# ¿ May 14, 2017 21:18

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

mcmagic posted:

https://twitter.com/politico/status/864583752026120192

Democrats are a waste.

This has to be the most Larry David picture of Bernie Sanders.

# ¿ May 17, 2017 02:51

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

reignonyourparade posted:

Or, perhaps, like noted abolitionist and actual former slave Frederick Douglas.

Thanks for posting that. You know I wonder if Douglas ever read Marx because that sounds vaugley Marxist. Meanwhile the Nation calls out the wonderful peoiple at the Center for American progress and their joke of a conference.

Nation posted:

Why Bernie Sanders Wasn�t Invited to CAP�s Ideas Conference
The party has a coalition-building problem.
By George ZornickTwitter
Today 3:06 pm

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Sen. Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders joins striking federal contract workers in Washington, DC, December 7, 2016. (Olivier Douliery / ABACA)

In the battle over ideas in the Democratic party, it�s clear the moderates aren�t getting much quarter. This was on display at the �Ideas Conference� held Tuesday by the Center for American Progress, the central policy and personnel clearinghouse for Democratic administrations. Just before the event, the think tank released �A Marshall Plan for America��an ambitious jobs guarantee via �a large-scale, permanent program of public employment and infrastructure investment.�

The racially and gender-diverse main speakers ranged from the liberal to the very liberal. Senator Elizabeth Warren gave a strong lunch keynote demanding strong antitrust enforcement to break up concentrated economic power. Senator Kirsten Gillibrand extolled the necessity of paid family leave, Senator Cory Booker demanded universal health care, Senator Kamala Harris called for the total decriminalization of marijuana and the election of �progressive prosecutors� nationwide, Representative Keith Ellison called Trump�s voter-fraud commission a scam and a �set-up,� and Senator Jeff Merkley demanded a green transformation of the energy economy that would put �every coal electricity-generating plant into a museum by the year 2050.�

Many of these speakers, particularly the ones gifted a �keynote� speaking slot, are widely rumored to be seeking the White House, and the mainstream media portrayed the event as a cattle call for 2020 candidates.

But there was an awkward absence: Senator Bernie Sanders. He was not invited to the �Ideas Conference,� and his exclusion makes clear that, while Democrats are converging around a general set of ideological principles, the party still faces some serious coalition-building problems.

CAP president Neera Tanden explained to The Washington Post that �We were trying to emphasize a new generation,� and a CAP spokesperson told The Nation that nobody who ran for president before was invited.

That�s true as far as it goes, but with any scrutiny it feels more like a post facto justification for not including Sanders. There�s a big difference between Hillary Clinton�now a private citizen with no future electoral plans�and Sanders, a sitting senator who polls as the most popular politician in the country and who has pointedly not ruled out a 2020 presidential campaign. The press materials for the conference proclaimed it would �bring together national leaders of the progressive cause,� and there�s no real way Sanders doesn�t fit that description, or rationally should have been excluded simply because he ran for president last year. (The presence of Susan Rice and Tom Daschle onstage also puts considerable strain on the idea that only new voices were being elevated.)

Attendance was restricted in other ways, too. There was no website for the event, which was held at the swanky Four Seasons hotel, nor a way for anyone to attend unless CAP sent a personal invite. (Though one could pay $1,000 to attend the �Progressive Party� after the conference.) The audience was primarily donors to the think tank, as well as CAP�s professional allies across DC and a whole bunch of media.

This left the event with a distinctly elite feel, despite the genuinely populist economic agenda that was being promoted. Daily Kos founder and self-appointed �granddaddy of the resistance� Markos Moulitsas drove the point home when he huffed during a panel about �that grassroots Bernie thing� and how it was a detriment to the party.

And that�s the real split in the party right now: between the grassroots and the establishment represented at the Four Seasons on Tuesday. It�s less about Bernie versus the Clintonistas, but rather that the wide array of socialist activists, community organizers and radical labor groups that existed for quite a while in Democratic Party politics and lined up behind Sanders when he ran for president are now feeling energized and emboldened.

That movement exists on an entirely parallel track to the professional left in DC. A lot of those groups will be meeting in Chicago in early June for their own version of an ideas conference. Sanders will address �The People�s Summit,� which is being held by the National Nurses United, Progressive Democrats of America, Democratic Socialists of America, the Food & Water Action Fund, Our Revolution, and others.

THE STAKES ARE HIGHER NOW THAN EVER. GET THE NATION IN YOUR INBOX.

�CAP couldn�t have made [the Ideas Conference] feel any less like that if they tried,� joked one progressive activist who attended Tuesday but wished to remain anonymous for professional reasons.

It�s hard to envision a functional political party where there�s such a fissure between the elites and the grassroots. It has already caused the Democrats no shortage of pain, even in the Trump era: The race for DNC chair was also much less about ideology and more about who would get control of the party mechanics�the established hands or the newcomers.

Elbowing Sanders out of the party isn�t going to solve this problem, though many Democrats seem intent on doing it. Politico ran a story on the same day as the Ideas Conference quoting several top Democrats who clearly want Sanders to go away, while blaming him for the party rifts. �He�s a constant reminder. He allows the healing that needs to take place to not take place,� one said.

Meanwhile, being shunned by party bosses is rocket fuel for the Sanders movement. �If you want to understand why establishment Democrats lose, look at CAP. They hold their�grassroots conference at the Four Seasons and don�t invite grassroots progressives,� one progressive strategist affiliated with Sanders but not authorized to speak for him told The Nation. �They charge $1,000 per ticket to attend their �Progressive Party��and eat canapes while wondering why they are out of touch with the rest of the country.�

https://www.thenation.com/article/why-bernie-sanders-wasnt-invited-to-caps-ideas-conference/

# ¿ May 18, 2017 00:32

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Confounding Factor posted:

Tom Perez Bombs Speech, California Dem Chair Tells Protesters �Shut the F**k Up�
http://observer.com/2017/05/tom-perez-california-democratic-party-convention/

https://twitter.com/davidsiders/status/865738858326917121

tl:dr Democrats are a waste

We're going to win, and we're going to ensure that sociopaths like JC vote GOP.

# ¿ May 21, 2017 06:08

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Despera posted:

The kind of people who love single payer as long as it's named after a white man are the kind of people you build a coalition around.

. This is perhaps the laziest poo poo posting in this thread. Whichi s saying something.

# ¿ May 21, 2017 06:52

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Phi230 posted:

Turns out those assholes are just conservatives

Well I would say most are really liberals, and are showing the limits of liberalism. Liberalism would be fine with a world with injustice if the injustice is accomplished through grounds that are not explicitly authoritarian, or racist, or that explicetley are done based on birth rite. As long as the injustice is done for the sake of advancing property they are fine with it. No matter how horrible. Also the violation of property that wasn't just the result of recent conquest for most liberals is far worse then the previous injustices. That is why we are seeing this breakdown now. To thse liberals us wanting to resolve the problems of property is a great crime.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 17:25

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Phi230 posted:

Guillotines solve many problems

I think if we continue working we can begin to pruge county parties of sub human filth like them, and then in another four to six have so purged the party that they'll either vote GOP or not at all.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 17:45

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Are we really? When one looks at polls,most people support center left to left wing policies? Is it really that there is no center?Or is it that we had the leadership of this country become completely disengaged from what the majority wanted?

# ¿ May 22, 2017 17:56

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

One thing I would go as far as suggesting as going Lenin on country organizations. Look up if the buildings and the party by laws allow people to bring weapons to the meetings, and the left should then turn up heavily armed. Intimidate the centrists.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 17:59

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Paradoxish posted:

There is no definition of a political center that isn't in some way relative. I would argue that we're in this state because the American political center has shifted so far to the right that "centrist" policies now represent real and tangible losses for even the moderate left rather than acceptable compromise. This is especially true on social issues where the American right is unable to even agree that cops shooting unarmed black men is a bad thing.

I misunderstood your original comment. Sorry about that. You are right. Although about the police shooting thing, I would argue that after the crime wave of the 80s the Police were preety much given carte blanche to do whatever they wanted. i remember there was this case in New York where police murdered a black man for getting out his wallet. No consequences whatsoever. All that is different now is that people have cameras on all their phones.

# ¿ May 22, 2017 18:21

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

I love how JC can't even defend any BC polkcies. But then attacks any attempts to fix them.

# ¿ May 24, 2017 18:23

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

JeffersonClay posted:

Actually the western Canadian polish community has no greater friend than me, although they do chafe at the suggestion they need fixing.

Bill Clinton not British Columbia, you dishonest poo poo.

# ¿ May 24, 2017 21:01

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Ah JC now pretends to like those on welfare.

# ¿ May 25, 2017 23:33

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

shrike82 posted:

I have to say given all the hot takes here about Quist being the progressive candidate and Ossoff being the devil-centrist one, it's pretty good to see Quist losing and Ossof likely winning.

What happened to that great silent progressive majority that the thread was crowing about?

I rate this troll post 3/10. Really need to put more effort into it. Quist ran with very little support from the party, and put up a good show. I hope he's there in 2018.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 05:20

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

VitalSigns posted:

Idk silly hippy dumb-leftist candidate Quist is on track to outdo Pragmatic Serious-Person's Choice Hillary Clinton in Montana by double digits, and her opponent was a self-admitted pussygrabbing rapist

Hey, I hope to see more like him running in 2018. Guy really put up a good fight and didn't run a joke of a campaign.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 05:51

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

JC if you means test UBI it is not universal anymore. Just say you don't think we should hand out money to everyone for free.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 17:11

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

ISIS CURES TROONS posted:

lol you fantasize about murdering people because they disagree with you about politics

Hey at worse you had a four in five chance of surviving gulags.

# ¿ May 26, 2017 18:16

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Doc Hawkins posted:

Prisons today are already overcrowded and inhumane, we'd need a gentler design. Something with a lot of fresh air and exercise, and free classes in practical skills and societal reintegration.

Outside you say? I have the prefect place. These boreal bogs in Alaska, would be perfect for that.

https://nsidc.org/sites/nsidc.org/files/images//Boreal_Forest_Thaw_lake_AK_small.JPG

# ¿ May 26, 2017 18:32

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

ISIS CURES TROONS posted:

Rich people's assets being seized and redistributed is such a awesome, great idea. I expect one day soon US voters to go for it.

FTFY.

# ¿ May 27, 2017 02:32

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

ISIS CURES TROONS posted:

Pretty sure any straight up wealth transfer laws would be slam dunked in the courts as a violation of the 4th.

Then why have they not invalidate any of the current laws? Also Baja sucks.

# ¿ May 27, 2017 12:48

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

KomradeX posted:

Here's where the bullshit comes in, it wasn't the working class that self destructed the New Deal over racism, it was the much vaunted Middle Class. Christ all you have too do is look at the number of Unions that supported the Civil Rights movement. That the hard hat workers in New York City were scum shouldn't have tarnished the entire Working Class. But it did because a certain class of Democrat wanted to jettison them so they could become the party of educated professionals and shrug off the working class and the policies that benefit them.

We blame Republicans, but Rhett democrats were complicit and supported the destruction of the Unions. And even with that the poor working class still supports the Democrats by a clear majority and it is the Middle and Upper Classes that the Democrats try so hard to appease that hate them. Liberals so desperately need to push the narrative of racists being poor, rural and uneducated so they can ignore the racism that is rampant among the educated, urban, middle and upper classes. It's nut the poor who love law and order worship the police, it's the Middle class. Let's stop making excuses for the one part of society that fascism always appeals to by blaming the working class

Well I have the perfect campaign message. ~~Gulag~~ reeducate the borguis/ middle class.

# ¿ May 29, 2017 04:17

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Maybe, the fact that people are willing to listen to a populist demagogue promise their jobs back and then they turn their ears off to racism, while the few people who only care about race now also turn up.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2017 22:35

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 17:18

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

rudatron posted:

Look, let me help you guys ignore b5. This guy recently had an interview on chapo, but his article is I think interesting to read, it being relevant to idpol: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/05/ta-nehisi-coates-racism-afro-pessimism-reparations-class-struggle

Thoughts?

It is a pretty good article as it looks directly at the economic reasons used by the upper class to divide us all as children of God from our struggle for human dignity.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jun 5, 2017

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 04:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The democrats are a waste

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