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Android Blues posted:Yeah, in a lot of ways it feels like it shouldn't work (it's so silly and not even in an ironic, self-aware way) but it does. Against all odds, some of the most important comics ever written. Most highly influential comics runs are satires, commentaries, or deconstructions: Claremont's Uncanny isn't that at all. I think about that period a lot, and I've decided that a big part of why it has the power it does is because it often isn't limited to just being a superhero book. There are big stretches of the original Claremont Uncanny X-Men that are very self-consciously young-adult science fiction, or horror, or Frank Miller-esque crime fiction, or European-influenced high sf, but you can count the Marvel-style hero vs. villain black-and-white punch-up stories on the fingers of one hand. (Maybe that fight with Mystique's Brotherhood that leads into the original Morlocks story? Arguably the #150 Magneto book that starts his redemption arc? The Mesmero circus thing?) Claremont's Uncanny really embraces the go-anywhere, do-anything comic book ethos in a way that very few of its contemporaries ever did, and gets really flexible about its own genre starting around the early '80s or so. It's especially notable if you compare it to a lot of the other stuff that Marvel was putting out at the time. Early '80s Avengers in particular is just straight-up superhero stuff, no gimmicks, except where it intersects with Simonson's Thor. There's probably something to be said about how a lot of the good stuff in '80s Marvel is fiction that happens to star a superhero, rather than straight-up superhero storytelling; David's "The Death of Jean DeWolff" is a borderline-noir murder mystery, Simonson's Thor is a weird take on mythology filtered heavily through Kirby, Miller's Daredevil is a gritty crime drama, etc.
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Mar 1, 2019 23:59
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Guys, I'm playing LEGO Marvel Super Heroes as part of an article I'm writing about children's software and they've got Cyclops in it with the power to destroy things by heating them up with his optic blasts. I am so nettled by this on Jay Edidin's behalf.
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Mar 15, 2019 09:33
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Man, I really can't shake the idea that Rosenberg's entire run has been a really long issue of What If? It's really reminding me of that Weapon X run Frank Tieri did in the 2000s, and that is not a compliment.Skwirl posted:They almost never actually killed people, but during Claremont's run most of the X-Men were written as though they would kill as a last resort. poo poo, a good chunk of the first Brood saga is Wolverine thinking about how he's gonna have to ice all his friends when they start to turn. Wasn't Cyclops the one who actually killed Jean Grey/Phoenix at the end of Dark Phoenix Saga? No, she telekinetically aced herself by reactivating old tech from whoever created the Blue Area of the Moon. Cyclops was always the Boy Scout who refused to kill, but he softened on that, most notably at the start of Morrison's run. Storm was reasonably anti-murder as well, at least for a while. IIRC, however, "heroes don't kill" was a huge point of Jim Shooter's run as editor-in-chief at Marvel, which is part of why the level of violence in that period was so weirdly bloodless. The moment he got fired, you started seeing a general relaxation of the no-kill policy in Claremont's work in general, particularly when it came to enemies like the Brood or the Marauders.
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May 16, 2019 06:13
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Skwirl posted:I'm thinking of re-upping my Marvel Unlimited subscription and while I've read most of the Claremont era and a pretty good helping of X-comics from Morrison's New X-Men to present I've read almost nothing in between, aside from Age of Apocalypse are there any must read arcs from the 90's? Warren Ellis's Excalibur is rough as hell compared to a lot of his later work and has really inconsistent art, but it's a fun book with a lot of big ideas, which was rare at the time. I'll also admit to a soft spot for Fabian Nicienza's Gambit solo. Beyond that, '90s X-Men is a highly influential dumpster fire.
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Jun 6, 2019 19:35
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amigolupus posted:So would you all say Rosenberg's run has dethroned Austen for the title of the worst X-Men run ever? Rosenberg is basically going to end up as a historical footnote before the entire line gets redefined, and I think he knows it; especially in the latest issues, it feels like he's trying to cram a planned multi-year run into as few pages as possible. Austen had the keys to the kingdom with no end in sight for a long time, and if you compose a bottom five all-time list of X-Men story arcs, Austen still has a hammerlock on at least the bottom two. Rosenberg's bad weather; Austen was nuclear winter. Open Marriage Night posted:I’m having a hard time sleeping. Anyone want to argue about Neal Adams Havok being one of the best costume visuals of all time? I think you can make a fairly decent argument that nobody ever drew it as well as Adams did, despite decades of attempts, and that limits some of its effectiveness.
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Jun 21, 2019 09:14
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Dawgstar posted:I am curious who took a look at that War Machine series he did and decided 'yes, let us give him the keys to the X-franchise.' I can't find backup information for it right now, but I seem to remember that it was one of those right place, right time situations. Joe Casey's run was supposed to stay weird and go a lot longer, but he felt suffocated by having to work around both Morrison and the X-office, so he left unexpectedly. Somebody threw the job to Austen because he was a writer with time on his hands and they had a hole in the schedule. Subsequently, his run didn't actually impact the sales on Uncanny all that much (I assume because there were still several hundred thousand manic collectors at the time who would've kept buying the book if it gave them anthrax) and he was overshadowed by Morrison, so he got to stick around for 32 issues. It also probably didn't hurt that it was the early 2000s at the height of the Joe Quesada weird period, where a lot of similarly odd poo poo got thrown at the wall. Compared to something like Phoenix: Legacy of Fire, Bill Jemas's Marville, or the short-lived Emma Frost solo book with diet porn Greg Horn covers, Austen was at least hitting deadlines and selling well. ...according to IMDB, he's actually an executive producer on the new She-Ra show now. Wanderer fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jun 21, 2019 |
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Jun 21, 2019 17:17
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Archyduchess posted:But Rosenberg's run-- and in all fairness, this began before it was solo-written by him-- is worse I think because it's a fundamentally reactionary vision of the X-Men. Those are interesting points. I suppose I'm too stuck in viewing it through the lens of the jaded comics fan, where there's just no way that most or all of the changes in Rosenberg's run aren't swept under the rug almost immediately the moment he's off the book. It's hard to take any of it seriously because it feels like a particularly bloody What If? or, as you said, a fan project. Conversely, Austen was a dark period in a weird time for the company as a whole, and some of his damages (most notably killing off Skin) have lingered to the present day. There's a lot about Rosenberg's Uncanny that reminds me of Frank Tieri's Days of Future Now miniseries from 2005, where Tieri was moving really fast, murdering vast numbers of characters, and making big changes, all because it was A) an alternate-universe story and B) utterly undone at the end of issue #5. Both books even have a somewhat sympathetic Juggernaut joining the X-Men. Come to think of it, that's actually weird. A lot of the worst and weirdest runs in X-Men history also involve a Juggernaut face turn.
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Jun 21, 2019 20:57
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davebo posted:So Wolverine has a daughter and I had to go around scavenging for Marvel Comics Presents which I never would have bothered doing if I didn't love me some Art Adams anyway. The one time I was in an actual comic shop months ago I saw MCP #1 with Wolverine and Monkeyman from Monkeyman and O'Brien on an Art Adams cover and had to have it, but then realized it wasn't Monkeyman just some Gorilla and figured I wouldn't be back in the shop regularly to buy an anthology series like that so I skipped it. It's funny to see these issues currently on ebay skyrocketing as the speculators frenzy. Comic shop owners pissed because Marvel gave them no heads up about a new character for a book with poor sales that I think is getting cancelled anyway, so they all sold out and there's already a 2nd printing that no one will buy because it won't be worth as much. I really doubt that story was meant as a setup for hot new character find of the year 2019, As Yet Unnamed Logan Daughter. I'm a little more curious how she ended up blonde.
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Jun 27, 2019 20:54
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Yeah, I read a couple of the earlier chapters because I like Charles Soule. It's not really set in the 616, as it's a generational story, with the conceit that it takes place roughly in real time. I'd have my doubts that Logan and Sylvie's daughter would cross over even if not for the major character deaths in the latest chapter.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:23
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Yvonmukluk posted:Huh, maybe him and Zdarsky should have compared notes. If nothing else, Soule makes it quite clear that a Wolverine: Life Story miniseries would, after a certain point, degenerate into at least 50% of its page count depicting panels of Logan drinking alone in a bar. In other Wolverine-sprog news, Claremont's story in the Exit Wounds one-shot features '80s-era Logan and Kitty going to rural Japan to bail out a noodle shop that's under fire from a protection racket, with Logan trying and failing to conceal that the shop's proprietor is his great-granddaughter.
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Jun 27, 2019 21:47
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given his age, it shouldn't even be immediate descendants. it should be great-grandsons and great-nieces. dude should have a family tree that looks like Mick Jagger's.
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Jun 28, 2019 01:02
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amigolupus posted:So basically Logan's trying to compete with Scott for overly-elaborate family trees? That won't be a competition until Logan's involves time travel. The fact that we aren't virtually overrun by second-, third-, and fourth-generation sniktlings is actually testament to Logan's remarkable restraint.
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Jun 28, 2019 17:24
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Isn't that a possible future kid? I don't think those should count.
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Jun 28, 2019 18:24
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Skwirl posted:In all honesty this probably isn't even the worst couple of weeks the New Mutants have had in their history. There was that one time that the entire team got murdered by a mad god, then temporarily reality-warped so they'd never existed at all. That was probably worse.
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Jul 16, 2019 00:09
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There's a lot about this run that feels as if it was meant to be at least a year longer, especially these last couple of issues. Cortez gets fried by a Sentinel and you don't find out it was him for a page and a half.
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Jul 17, 2019 22:07
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Dawgstar posted:So who's left alive from the original Generation X? Jubilee, Husk and Sync? Just Jubilee, Monet, and Husk. Synch died in the original comic's run, near the end.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:11
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thats a no from me posted:The designs remind me a lot older Hickman stuff, especially Pax Romana. I'd almost go so far as to say that being caught up with the X-books right now is actively detrimental. There's a lot here that Hickman seems to be ignoring outright.
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Jul 24, 2019 21:12
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BrianWilly posted:Yeah, I know, I know...the whole point right now is that we're supposed to be saying "What's going on? Why is it like this?" and that's the big ol' mystery of this book. I get it. The thing though is that I'm really trying to figure what is going on and why it is like this and, to be honest, I'm not coming up with any answers I like. To my mind, the big question is how much of the book is Hickman being Hickman--dudes making big sweeping melodramatic proclamations to one another in secret rooms--and how much is a deliberate long game. There's a lot you can point out as far as deliberate framing choices, like how nobody seems to be on-panel at all unless they're wearing a mask.
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Jul 25, 2019 09:52
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I still hate Sinister for killing Kate Kildare in the Kieron Gillen run.
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Jul 29, 2019 05:43
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Jim the Nickel posted:Along these lines I want a team of the quiet dorks with obvious mutations like Eyeboy and Ernst and Glob that maybe aren't the best fighters but who could have outreach roles to new mutants. Like make it so they don't feel like they have to go live in the sewers with the Morlocks just because they're a lil ugly. With special guest lecturer Benjamin J. Grimm.
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Jul 30, 2019 22:21
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Actually, I'd be legit interested to see a book or an arc like that from somebody like Leah Williams, where mutants with blatantly non-humanoid appearances are used as part of a gentle conversation about body image in general.
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Jul 30, 2019 22:23
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BrianWilly posted:There's definitely some weird time travel-ly thing going on, or going to go on, or having been gone on. That Moira scene is.........perplexing. Between that scene, the helmet Xavier's in, and somebody mentioning the World at one point, at least some of this isn't actually happening. I don't think the sheer dream-logic structure of it is just Hickman playing with formalism.
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Jul 31, 2019 22:29
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Skwirl posted:I'm just going to double post instead of doing a third edit, but what other mutants would be famous in universe in a pop culture sense and not just because they saved and/or almost destroyed the planet? Hank McCoy would be a pretty high-tier scientist even without the X-Men, and he used to date Trish "Not Lois Lane" Tilby. I could swear he used to do a lot of time on talk shows and stuff like that as a rented mouth. Warren Worthington III is an international playboy, idle rich kid, and handsome billionaire, so he would've been all over the society pages even before he died a couple of times and got weird. Storm's still pretty well-known in Africa and was even before the various Wakanda retcons. Being married to T'Challa almost certainly would've pushed her over the edge into in-universe Kate Middleton territory were it not for the mutant thing. Colossus's brother was a cosmonaut and he was an up-and-comer in the New York art scene for about ten minutes back at the end of Claremont's run, so he's very fame-adjacent. Psylocke was a supermodel for a while, as noted. Nightcrawler was apparently a famous trapeze artist for a while as a kid, then grew up and led Excalibur. He's probably a rock star in Germany these days. Havok was an Avenger and made his "how about Alex?" TV speech that nobody liked. Cannonball would probably have gotten his fifteen minutes out of that time he spent as Lila Cheney's hookup buddy. Sunspot's in the same boat as Angel, but is way more media-savvy and outgoing. He ended up broke at the end of U.S. Avengers, but that's probably not going to last. Karma inherited a billion-dollar company under extremely weird circumstances in Marjorie Liu's run on Astonishing and is an out lesbian of Vietnamese descent, so I'd expect her to be on a bunch of top-ten lists and magazine covers. Monet is rich, telepathic, immodest Eurotrash and is only not famous because she doesn't want to be. Emma Frost was an heiress, a millionaire, and a fixture of the New York idle rich before everyone found out she was a mutant.
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Aug 6, 2019 23:23
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I was gonna say Bill Nye, where he's brought on as a general-purpose "scientist" regardless of his actual discipline.
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Aug 6, 2019 23:32
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I don't think we've got enough yet to figure out what's going on. This is Moira MacTaggert, who's been dead for years in 616, and getting capped on Muir Island by Mystique isn't one of the established timelines here. Hickman even made a point of digging up her maiden name, which is a deep dive. Plus, her son Kevin is listed as one of the Omega mutants in House of X #1, and I can't help but notice that she explicitly didn't end up with Kevin's monster of a father in any of the established timelines in this issue.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:13
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I did miss the conspicuous omission of life #6, though, so thank you for pointing that out. I read too fast for my own good sometimes.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:17
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Skwirl posted:Aside from the last issue of Rosenberg's Uncanny are there examples of no Phoenix Jean doing really amazing TK tricks She punched Sabertooth from northern France into the Pyrenees one time, which meant she threw him most of the way to Spain.
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Aug 10, 2019 20:13
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Rochallor posted:Claremont's run absolutely holds the hell up. I've been going through a full reread for the first time in more than a decade and the difference between it and basically anything else being published is night and day--not necessarily (but often) in terms of quality, but there's just a deftness of characterization and a density of story that rewards close reading. I get the feeling that a lot of the writers who grew up reading Claremont ended up going into other media, which feels a bit rare.
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Aug 11, 2019 18:07
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Donde Esta posted:Has it been explained somewhere how Cyclops is back? Scott saved a guy's life early in his career. Teenage Cable went back in time to talk to that guy, who'd gone on to work for Tony Stark, and get him to come up with a miniaturized version of Stark's Phoenix-force battery gadget from AvX. The guy did so, teen Cable swiped Scott's body, and they implanted the gadget in Scott's body. A little later, when the Phoenix force briefly brought Scott back during The Resurrection of Jean Grey, the gadget collected a little bit of energy from the Phoenix, which rejuvenated Scott.
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Aug 12, 2019 07:55
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Rumda posted:Isn't the reason Deadpool's healing is 'stronger' because it's not having to deal with constant adamantium poisoning Yeah. Both Laura and Deadpool heal faster than Logan because neither of them have a couple of hundred pounds of toxic metal in their systems.
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Aug 14, 2019 00:58
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At noon on her birthday, Emma always takes a couple of hours to mind-control someone at the Pentagon into altering all her records so she was born a year later.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:01
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Android Blues posted:Claremont was reportedly trying to do the same sort of thing with the Cyclops/Madelyne Pryor plot, but got steered away from it by editorial. Which is a shame, because that turn really does a number on Scott's character. Yeah, he's said before that the reasoning behind shuffling Scott off to Alaska, and why the original ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga was to have Scott and Jean retire together, was that he thought the characters needed to gracefully retire and let younger characters take the reins. If he'd had his way, the New Mutants would've been wave one of a steady cycle of protagonists who'd come to the fore, then move out.
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Aug 15, 2019 03:03
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Neurosis posted:Wasn't the Reed thing something that was played with for the limited run series of FF v X-Men like 20 years ago and it was wrapped up in the same story arc with 'Nope, that was just something Doom planted to gently caress with the rest of the FF'? Or did they go back to that? There's probably an argument to be made that Reed tends to be caught in a similar cycle to Johnny, where he begins a lot of runs as distant and disinterested in his family's lives, and eventually has to refocus on them. Off the top of my head, though, there have been a couple of takes on him where he feels guilty about the accident and like he should've known better--that's a big part of the Waid/Weiringo run, for example--but the FFvXM limited series by Claremont is the only one that goes further. Even there, as you said, it's a particularly low-key Doom scheme.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:15
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Jeffe posted:Sorry this question is about 3 months late, but I was catching up on some random things and flipped through War of the Realms and the Uncanny tie-in, and... why the heck, in issue #2, do Cyclops and Havok suddenly look disheveled and wearing heavy coats, and I think Cyke mentions he was resting when he was delaying sniping? I can't find anything that happens in the main book referring to it, and if it was in the WotR books I guess I missed it, that thing was a bit incoherent without all the tie-ins, it seems (which I don't have), so I started skimming it quickly. There's a time-skip between issues #1 and #2 of the X-Men tie-in. It isn't very well explained, but the X-Men show up right after the battle of New York in WotR #2, then end up fighting guerilla-style in the city for a while. It doesn't really jibe well with the rest of the crossover, but that's Rosenberg's run in a nutshell.
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Aug 26, 2019 18:28
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Kingtheninja posted:Did Mariko ever have a kid? Sort of. If I remember correctly, Logan adopted a girl named Amiko in the wake of a disaster (the dragon attack on Japan that happened when the X-Men returned to Earth following the first Secret Wars), and that girl ended up first in Mariko's care, then in Yukio's. There'd also be plenty of room for Mariko to have ended up pregnant at some point, especially when you take multiple timelines into consideration.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:55
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CubanMissile posted:drat, I wanna know who he's referring to in all the Sinister Secrets but I don't think I know enough X-men history. So far I got: #1: Sinister himself, I assume. #2: Jumbo Carnation, the mutant fashion designer who appeared briefly in Morrison's run, and who died of a drug overdose in his first appearance. I remember him having a weirdly outsized presence in later stories, considering that he was basically created to die to introduce the Sublime subplot. #3: Yeah, that's Madelyn. #4: I don't think that's been set up yet. #5: Logan and Jean, if you assume Nate and/or Rachel Grey count as kids. Then again, there are also a couple of weird signs in this thing that this isn't the Jean we're used to, like how she's wearing the old Marvel Girl suit and nobody seems to be taking her seriously. #6: Sounds like Ernst, but I'm curious what the "samples" are. Could be whatever Sinister was planning to make a new body for Martha from, or it could be the mutant embryos from the Jeff Lemire run. #7: Scott, Alex, and Gabriel Summers, with an Adam-X joke thrown in there. #8: Apocalypse and his Four Horsemen. I'd be curious who the "originals" are. It could be the '80s version with Archangel, the 11th-century version from Remender's Uncanny Avengers, or some as-yet-unrevealed version. #9: The mention of kids and fireworks makes me think of Jubilee, but she's never really had an official love interest. It being a "non-couple" crosses Kitty and Peter off the list, and Alex has already been the subject of a secret, so that means it's probably not him and Lorna. I suppose it could be Kitty and Doug, since they were best friends back in the Claremont days, but have barely interacted since Doug came back from the dead in Necrosha. Maybe Jubilee and Monet? #10: I'm gonna go ahead and say that the happy Sinister who Xavier allied with isn't who he seems to be. Could be Sublime, or Cassandra Nova, or something else.
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Sep 11, 2019 17:25
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Skwirl posted:Who's the blonde lady standing next to Sinister when they show up? It kinda looks like how Magik has dressed recently, but I don't really associate her with Sinister. Lady Mastermind in her Chris Bachalo outfit.
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Sep 18, 2019 21:22
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Skwirl posted:Has a mutant ever given birth to a non mutant? I suppose Quicksilver's daughter Luna counts. She didn't get powers at all until the Terrigen Mists kicked in.
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Sep 20, 2019 18:05
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Was I supposed to be reminded of the Zeon orgy sequence in Matrix Reloaded by today's issue, or is that just me?
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Oct 3, 2019 04:06
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You know, I took just enough philosophy classes in college that it's warped my brain, so I'm having a hard time getting over the basic metaphysics of the resurrection method. If Xavier battery-backups your mind, and the Krakoa island crew teams up to reproduce your body, and the two get reunited to form a somehow perfectly functional version of you... is that still you, or is it just a duplicate that thinks it is? Wouldn't it be more apt to say that it's a sequel or a continuation, rather than you? Obviously, from the outside, as per the terms of the fiction, it's as good as resurrection, but if it happened to you, would that still be you behind those eyes, or are you dead and there's somebody else doing your work back in the world? I'm overthinking this, but it bothers me.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:55
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