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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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On the Krakoa world map, most of Japan has vanished. Art error... or cluuuuuue???

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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Alright, I was kind of down on House of X. Powers of X, however, is bananas. Any single one of the ideas getting thrown around here could fuel several years worth of comics, and there's like twelve. I can't even tell if it's good, really, but it is ambitious as all hell.

I had kind of resigned myself to the idea that Hickman's run would be long on big ideas and short on sharp characterization... and then we get goofy Nimrod, who is immediately one of my favorite characters. Also, Nimrod is doing not just X-Men 2099, but X-Men 3099. Also also, the fact that Nimrod and his followers in the year 3099 have killed all humans. I'm really hoping we get some Warlock or Danger perspectives on this future three way human-robot-mutant war.

Really loved the historian's note of "in retrospect, it should have been obvious that Sinister was going to betray us."

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Avicus posted:

Maybe Moira VI teams up with Sinister. I don't want to think about how her power would work with clones...

I was kind of thinking Sinister just because he's the only major X-villain Moira isn't recorded as seeking out, besides obviously unhelpful groups like the Purifiers. Either that or maybe a DoFP timeline, since she really goes hard after the Trasks in the next life.

I don't remember all that Legacy Virus business well, but wasn't Moira (supposedly) the first human victim of it? Did it jump to any humans after her?


Man, this is a really gonzo issue.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Skwirl posted:

You are in for a loving treat. Not since Kirby left Fantastic Four was there a more important or entertaining superhero book published.

Please keep us updated on your read through, I love reading people's first reactions to these stories.

Claremont's run absolutely holds the hell up. I've been going through a full reread for the first time in more than a decade and the difference between it and basically anything else being published is night and day--not necessarily (but often) in terms of quality, but there's just a deftness of characterization and a density of story that rewards close reading.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Parallax posted:

it's less cultural stuff like this (although i was thinking, if its only been ten years then colossus would come from a completely different russia, and would probably be quite a different character,) and more the idea that a character like kitty who joins the x-men when she's 13.5 but is now written like she's in her late 20s early 30s? when generously she should be like, 19-20 years old

Kitty is like 24 at the oldest, maybe even younger. I'm pretty sure all the O5 are only like 28ish at this point.

Kitty in particular is kind of weird because she was aging pretty consistently for a while, and then hit 18 and everything just slowed the gently caress down.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I'm expecting the upshot to all the stuff re. the Phalanx in this issue to be that the only thing that can avert humanity's absorption into the Phalanx singularity is mutantkind, and without mutants the universe is fated to become a single robot entity. The idea being, presumably, that regular life-forms can't adapt fast enough to outpace robot evolution. Hell if I know which life that's taking place in, but I'm pretty sure that's what's going on with the X^3 stuff.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Yeah, the limit on the number of Moira's lives is a really weird issue. I have to assume that continuity is going to continue on her latest life, which means that it's going to have to incorporate the tragic death of a 12 year-old or younger girl, or just ignore Destiny's rather specific warning.

I was thinking that Moira might have lost her powers on M-Day and so she's just going to die at the end of this one, but Life 4 seemed basically to mirror the current path of the X-Men, including the "Lost Decade." Maybe she was one of those to remain mutant back then and she lost her powers this time?

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Neurosis posted:

Diplomatic immunity exempts representatives of a nation from the jurisdiction of the courts of other countries. It's a personal immunity, attaching to everything a representative of a foreign sovereign does. It is indeed how it works - it's just no nation has ever claimed (to my knowledge) every one of its citizens is subject to that immunity. I imagine the custom would quickly disappear if nations regularly tried this kind of thing.

It resembles in many ways the unequal treaties forced by colonizers on their colonies in the 1800s, which makes sense because mutants are operating from an advantageous position.

There's some real interesting stuff in this series about inevitabilities in the way that mechanical beings develop. First you have the Phalanx from a couple issues ago, and now the idea that a Sentinel-producing culture will lead, eventually, to a self-aware, self-replicating Nimrod.

I'm starting to wonder who's writing the exposition pages. They definitely seem like they're in-universe. I would assume it's largely based on stuff Moira's picked up in her lives, or maybe Nimrod's databanks in the far future, but even ten lifetimes seems like a few too few to start making broad statements about the inevitability of the Singularity.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Neurosis posted:

Hickman has almost certainly been doing a lot of that. A lot of his comics present information like that. He missed out on his calling somewhere in the corporate world.

I think he's talking from an in-universe perspective? At least, I've been wondering that. From the tone of stuff like "the pretender" it's clearly supposed to be written by someone in-universe. I was thinking it was info compiled by Moira through her lives and prepared for the Moira X timeline.

Was it a plot point or even brought up at the time that the destruction of Genosha killed almost all mutants? I don't remember that being a thing at all, but the infographic had 16 of the world's then-17 million mutants on Genosha at the time. Morrison was leaning hard into the mutants on the rise stuff at the time so it seems likely that wasn't his intention.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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danbanana posted:

Yeah, it's very explicit how many die in E is for Extinction and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Morrison's run. Committing a Holocaust-like event on a metaphor group like mutants should be the only thing that gets mentioned for about five years in that book. Instead, Morrison jumps to telling stories about high school kids getting detention and convoluted plots about Magneto pretending to have a black hole brain. Part of his argument was that it made being a mutant more unique, as if having another 1M or 17M mutants makes a difference when we can only really follow/catalog a few hundred. Compare that to how universe-wide the No More Mutants thing was pushed, how dramatic Mutant Massacre was, or even how terrible something like the (very problematic) Legacy Virus was treated. Sixteen million mutants dead? Whatevs.

Man I didn't remember that at all. I'm guessing that's largely because, as you said, it's not actually treated with any kind of gravity in continuity. The most fallout I can think of from that story is Kitty's dad dying on Genosha and whatever Necrosha was. Oh, and Emma Frost shutting Tony Stark the hell down.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Edge & Christian posted:

Morrison built the backdoor Sublime escape clause into his version of Magneto, but it's also easy to forget that Morrison's New X-Men came a decade after Claremont left the X-Books for the first time. Claremont spent a decade 'redeeming' Magneto, but Claremont's last X-Men stories also featured:

1) Magneto renouncing his belief that mutants and humans could co-exist.
2) Rebuilding Asteroid M and pointing nuclear missiles at everyone on Earth
3) Torturing Moira MacTaggart for 'influencing' him into being 'good' when he got deaged
4) Getting violent and crazed be cause of Fabian Cortez, who was boosting his powers and making him unstable

At the end of the arc he snaps out of it before destroying humanity and nobly sacrifices himself, knowing he's too far gone.

But then in the decade between X-Men #3 and #114:

- Magneto come back, creates an EMP pulse that shuts down the entire planet, threatens everyone, rips Wolverine's bones out, gets his brain shut down by Xavier

- Magneto's coma brain creates Onslaught and tries to destroy/enslave the whole planet

- Magneto threatens to kill all of humanity unless they give him Genosha, they do

- Magneto kills/enslaves all of the humans on Genosha, builds an army and plans to overthrow all humanity. He kidnaps Xavier and crucifies him above his throne.

I'm probably forgetting something but everyone who wasn't Grant Morrison that worked on X-Men comics from 1991-2001 did a terrific job of 'ruining' Magneto, he just remixed/did the greatest hits of the previous decades, which was basically the whole run.

I'm not a fan of the way Magneto is portrayed in NXM, but yeah, it's hard to argue (besides a couple extreme actions) that it doesn't make sense in the context of where his character is at that point. It's more that morally murky Magneto is far more interesting than Silver Age villain Magneto so that's the character people tend to default to.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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The Question IRL posted:

I know it was a theory I heard thrown around in the Wizard days of comics. And I think I read it being confirmed in some internet interview in mid 2000's.
I can't find it on a Google search. But I did find out that Proteus dad is Joseph McTagert, which might explain why he selects that name.

Ah, the Zaladane school of character relationships.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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BrianWilly posted:

And yet everyone seems to be acting like they're back and that this is a resurrection. The narration literally refers to it as resurrection.

Kinda strange, isn't it. Seems like something that should be addressed.

As far as the not-dead characters are concerned, it's a resurrection. The Scott, Kurt, Jean, etc. who come out of the eggs are the same people they've known for years, minus up to seven days' worth of memories. But they all still died in space.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Rick posted:

Didn't at least one text portion say they've never tried it before? Obviously other excerpts are from later files because they've tried it a bunch at some point.

If that is time #1 though and Xavier didn't tell Nightcrawler and Wolverine about their backups (probably two people who may not be too keen on a backup), well,

I don't remember if that's said explicitly, but it's clearly the case that this is the first successful use of a hypothetical technology. In the previous issue Xavier was apoplectic over the deaths of the team, which makes sense since it means there's a, say, 45% chance that the cloning concept won't work, or will produce defective clones, or whatever. There's a possibility the entire group isn't dead forever, but only a possibility.

Then you have the reuse of the very first panel with the weirdly mincing Xavier, and now that we've gotten the context to it it's basically an expression of pure delight and relief. There's also the ceremony afterwards, and presumably they're not gonna have one of those every single time somebody dies.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I honestly liked the characterization of Alex being a lovely, "I don't see race" kind of guy. Not that that's what Remender was going for, but hey, whatever.

It made for a neat moment in Uncanny, I think, when Kitty and the others are watching the speech and going "that's some bullshit."

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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I really appreciate that during the council vote to "exile" Sabretooth, while most people are agonizing over the decision Sebastian Shaw's just like, "Sure, whatever, I don't care."

I'm sure there's still some more revelations to come out of HOXPOX, but I've been ready for this series to be over for a couple of weeks now. All the weird Krakoa stuff is great, but I also want some stories about the characters living on it, and the ones not living on it, and everybody elsewhere. There was a hint of that in the PoX stuff with Nimrod and the Chimeras, but they weren't really further developed past the first issue. The celebration scene in this week's issue was great, but frustrating in how that's basically one of a scant few hints of the stuff in these series so far.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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BrianWilly posted:

I think I liked a lot of this a lot more than a lot of HOXPOX. Not that Krakoa isn't still a weirdo cult nation, but at least we're having a bit of fun with it.

Yeah, hopefully that we've gotten the board set up, we can continue seeing a little more of what these characters are getting up to.

I enjoyed that they basically reset Vulcan as a character, because the previous version of him was poo poo and basically unusable. Always happy to see Rachel, too.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Aphrodite posted:

Wolfsbane can turn into multiple wolves.

Gah, I was so close to forgetting this

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Gonna be honest, my reaction to reading that interview was "so, it's a wolverine solo book"

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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There was a weird reference to "North Valnon" as a country ruled by a kleptocratic family, which is weird, because North Korea has definitely appeared in other books and there are scenes set in both Russia and Taiwan here. Has Marvel been treading lightly around NK recently or something? I'm reading a lot fewer comics than I used to.

Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Edge & Christian posted:

A lot of times this is done if they're going to go deep into creating characters for the ruling party.

If you have a random racist supersoldier and some mercenaries get beat up, it's fine to just call it "Russia" or "North Korea" or whatever real country.

If you're going to do a whole plotline where the leader of a country is giving supervillain monologues and entering into a devil's bargain with [supervillain] and trying to invade other countries or whatever, that's when you go with Fake Country. That's presumably why they used Transia instead of I dunno, Turkmenistan for the X-Force series last year, and (I'm guessing) that's why Duggan is using North Valnon side by side with Russia.

Oh wait, North Valnon is the Not North Korea that Duggan used not only in his Hulk series as Aphrodite pointed out, but it was also the setting for a lengthy subplot in his Deadpool run, where the North Valnonian government was rounding up dissidents and trying to turn them into ersatz X-Men using horrible science experiments and bits of Deadpool. So that's a great example of where to use Fake Country, a story where the country's leaders are directly running torture/death camps and you have the heroes killing a ton of high ranking government officials.

That was the exact storyline I was thinking of re. North Korea, but I guess I had forgotten they didn't use the actual NK for that. Thanks, my bad.

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Rochallor
Apr 23, 2010

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Skwirl posted:

Just move the war to Afghanistan, someone who was 18 when we first invaded would be in their mid 30s now and we're still sending teenagers over there to die. If you need war time trauma and a sliding timescale our forever war in the middle east is loving perfect.

This is the obvious solution, yeah. Iraq's even better. It's not like we're ever going to run out of wars to plop him into.

Magneto's history with the Holocaust is a more pressing problem, but he's been de-aged multiple times and magnets something something slow the aging process.

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