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Skwirl posted:Oh gently caress, there needs to be a Juggernaut as a dumber Parker miniseries. Oh absolutely. I like Claremont's groundwork for Juggernaut, that he's essentially just too stupid to be good on his own-- he was given the power to barge through and break stuff, and can only really think to apply that in the most straightforward way possible unless otherwise directed by someone smarter or more willful. That Dazzler issue is great, as are all the issues from around that era (like that famous Spider-Man fight iirc) where he's just walking around trying to live his life as a regular dumb guy but huge and invincible. Nicieza touches on this in his X-Force as well, this idea that Juggernaut is not going to pick a fight he doesn't have to, because it's a waste of time. I think a crime book where he gets to be that sort of brutish but essentially not actively sadistic operator would be a good fit. If they were still doing those Noir books that would be perfect.
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Jun 21, 2019 23:00
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Sometimes I'm ambivalent about Hickman but I guess if anybody can figure out how to tell a decent Exodus story it would have to be him.
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Jun 26, 2019 05:07
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Open Marriage Night posted:The most interesting thing is that Nighcrawler is there. He’s never been a leader, but more of a moral compass. He was de facto leader of Excalibur for a good stretch of time, led Technet during a memorable Excalibur subplot, briefly (I think) led the X-Men after Storm lost her powers, co-led the X-Men with Archangel during I want to say Austen or Casey's run, and was leader again during Claremont's third run in the mid-aughts. He's not usually framed as a "leader-type" character like Cyclops or Mr. Fantastic or whoever, but there have been plenty of memorable and interesting stories about him having to put aside his flippant demeanor and lead.
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Jun 26, 2019 05:54
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X-Tremists is one of the best X-books in years, and the side books like X-23 and Mr. and Mrs. X have been strong. It's not like the entire line was in a tail spin heading into this revamp, it's just that Rosenberg is on the flagship book for some reason instead of, I don't know, writing a Havoc solo book in the corner where he belongs. It's baffling. It's like they had no ideas for the centerpiece of the line but are just unwilling to not have it be published-- in which case why not make like Inferno and just have Age of X-Man, which has ranged from perfectly entertaining to phenomenal, take over the actual line instead of shunting it into a series of minis? Have the main plot play out in UXM, keep the side stories in miniseries, and just... don't bother putting out the ugly, forgettable, mess that is Rosenberg's tenure?
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Jun 27, 2019 04:41
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What's the total death-count from his run and how many of those deaths landed with any emotional impact or gravity at all? Off the top of my head I can think of: Strong Guy Rahne Sunspot Chamber Sabretooth Vanisher Dark Beast The Nasty Boys The Marauders It's so transparently setting itself up to be undone, but still, is this what Marvel thinks people want to read? I usually don't like to harp on comics I don't like when there are so many I do, but I'm just dumbfounded by his entire approach. Edit: On top of Rahne's extraordinarily tacky trans-panic death a few months ago, this week also gave us a scene of Sabretooth salivating over the thought of "breaking" her. Just dismal stuff.
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Jun 27, 2019 05:42
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Open Marriage Night posted:Laura and Cassandra are nearly the same character. Not really?
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Jun 28, 2019 06:31
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Skwirl posted:I need to check out the rest of the Age of X-Man books, I've only read X-Tremists but I dug it immensely. Yeah, it's fun. It isn't as excellent as X-Tremists or, imo, as good as X-Tracts or Prisoner X, but it's a good solid Nightcrawler story with some fun twists and interesting world-building.
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Jul 4, 2019 11:06
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Adnor posted:So who do you think will tragically die in the last issue of Uncanny? Matt Rosenberg, in an Animal Man twist you'll never see coming.
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Jul 14, 2019 23:33
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I think to an extent Hickman is being a bit modest. Even if he didn't really take a ton of major Fantastic Four characters and concepts off of the table, for example, he did expand what kinds of stories future writers could do with them in a pretty significant way.
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Jul 19, 2019 04:55
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Oh good, one Fables just wasn't enough.
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Jul 25, 2019 18:42
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TomWaitsForNoMan posted:I mean, with how sinister everyone was acting in this issue I wouldn't count on it being as hilariously pro-Israel as Fables was. "You have new gods now" isn't exactly the speech of a sympathetic figure. Oh for sure I think he's not on that level, and is a more sophisticated writer, but I also think his Avengers stuff in particular was brought down a little by a certain uncritical orientation towards power, even if he was pretty sharp on writing about power's effects. I guess I'm cautious but planning on keeping reading. The stuff about the new mutant language made me roll my eyes a bit because, yes, almost every culture has, at least, a linguistic niche carved out within the space of an existing language, but a new alphabet illegible to human eyes seems like a weird direction to take the basic allegorical premise of mutant comics. I don't write in gay runes, although god, I wish I did, I just have, at best, a handful of slang words or shibboleths that might signify differently to people within and without that community. Even something like Polari, you know, was designed to be fairly easily picked up by English speakers who cared to learn it.
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Jul 25, 2019 19:55
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Destiny was a pretty prominent supporting villain throughout Claremont's run and showed up in a bunch of other titles during that period alongside Mystique's Brotherhood and, later, Freedom Force. She died in UXM #255 way back in 1989 and has, somewhat astonishingly, stayed, as far as I know, dead ever since. She was a pretty cool character, and if there weren't already enough good reasons to dig into Claremont's back catalogue, she is one more. In a period where queer characters were much more taboo, and practically invisible in the pages of mainstream superhero comics, Claremont pushed the romantic relationship between her and Mystique as close to text as he possibly could have, and they really do have a fascinating dynamic even if much of it has to be inferred.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:08
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Soonmot posted:Yeah, just do that. AoXM was okay, but most of the tie ins were actually really fun. X-Tremists was excellent, one of my favorite titles of the year.
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Aug 16, 2019 20:45
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Yvonmukluk posted:The only problem with this theory is that Ultimate Reed is presently appearing in Future Foundation. I doubt Hickman would let him show up in an ancillary book if he was so important to HoxPox. He's also been in Venom and Absolute Carnage, so, you know, those slices get around.
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Aug 29, 2019 19:48
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If you stopped reading in 2000, there are some things you may want to catch up on. Grant Morrison and Kieron Gillen had excellent runs, and Matt Fraction's is ok. Some people vouch for Joss Whedon's but I think it's a little rote. There are very worthwhile side titles between now and then as well-- Rick Remender's X-Force, X-Men: Red, Tom Taylor's run on Wolverine, Mr. and Mrs. X, Peter David had a very long second run on X-Factor if that's your thing, and I'm sure I'm missing plenty of other stuff. Oh, Milligan/Allred's X-Force/X-Statix was phenomenal. Mike Carey hopped around titles a bit and many of his long-running threads kind of fizzled out imo but he was always very readable. Si Spurrier did excellent work across a couple titles as well-- his stint on X-Men Legacy is a lot of fun and imo informs a lot of the sensibility of the Legion tv show. Basically, a very sketchy and brief thumbnail of what you missed-- starting with Morrison, the X-Men were reimagined as more explicitly politically and socially radical, a subculture that embraced its position as the next step in culture. After his apparent death Magneto becomes a countercultural icon and we begin to see a nascent sort of punk mutant movement by way of Quentin Quire, a snide young Xavier student who starts out as an antagonist but eventually comes back from the dead as a recurring good guy. Emma Frost is firmly entrenched as a member of the core team, and acquires a group of proteges, identical telepaths known as the Stepford Cuckoos. After a big stupid crossover, the mutant population is reduced to fewer than 200 and everybody is put on the defensive. Cyclops steps into a political leader position as the de facto head of a mutant community located off the coast of San Francisco, and gradually becomes more and more radical until he and Wolverine come to blows and the latter heads back East to set up a more traditional school. For awhile the books are split between these two factions, with the West Coast branch doing more high-concept sci-fi stuff and the East Coast books focusing on new young mutants and low key superhero drama. After a fracas with the Avengers Cyclops and his core followers-- Magneto, Emma Frost, Colossus, and Magik-- become empowered by the Phoenix and set themselves up as demigods seeking to rule the world. They get beaten up and defeated and in the climax Cyclops accidentally kills Xavier, but his grief is short lived as he discovers that during his god phase he managed to reignite the mutant gene or something, and saved his species. There continues to be a split between Cyclops' radical faction and a more conventionally super-hero-ey squad operating out of the mansion for a few years, until eventually Cyclops dies and a lot of that is swept under the rug. Enter several years of comics so blandly inoffensive that I'm honestly struggling to think of what you might have missed-- a decent comic by Tom Taylor in which a resurrected Jean Grey tackles large-scale problems, and I guess Kitty Pryde fails to get married. During this time period, roughly, Beast drags time-displaced versions of the Original Five from their teen days and they run around for a few years, Iceman comes out as gay in a not very good Bendis story leading into an ok-to-decent Sina Grace solo series, and Teen Archangel briefly dates Wolverine's teenaged girl clone Laura, who eventually becomes, believe it or not, hands-down the best character in the line. Cyclops dies of space flu or something, but it's ok, he comes back soon enough. Finally another little crossover goes down in which X-Man traps most of the known mutants in a pocket dimension while the rest of the world believes them all to be dead. Cyclops muddles about in about a year's worth of truly abominable comics by Matt Rosenberg, until finally in the middle of an incomprehensible fight everyone else comes back. Rosenberg's run includes a staggering amount of shock deaths that were immediately undone, so don't worry about it. Many other things went on in the dozens of ancillary titles-- Wolverine dying and coming back, Xavier dying and coming back (?), Magneto being good and then bad and then good again, all sorts of vague stuff with Bishop and Cable, etc., but you can follow those threads at your leisure without missing much in terms of hopping back onboard. You may want to look up a few important new characters introduced in the 21st century-- namely, I'd imagine, the Cuckoos, Xorn, and Omega Sentinel, although I would not be surprised if Fantomex and Dr. Nemesis crop up in the near future. None of these are at all necessary to read and enjoy Hickman's project (although it wouldn't hurt) so you could also just dive in with his run and probably be perfectly fine. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 29, 2019 |
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Aug 29, 2019 22:08
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This was the first issue that really landed for me. The little exchange between Logan and Kurt was really great.
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Sep 4, 2019 17:36
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I feel like the entire direction of the book is dictated by the Genoshan genocide-- I didn't spend every second of every day in the early aughts explicitly talking or thinking about 9/11, like, I took math tests, I went on dates, I learned to drive, I went to work at Wawa and came home, it wasn't the dominant topic of my life even if it increasingly dictated the direction of the cultural environment I lived in. And when I did think about it, I really thought about it-- when my highschool held an assembly about registering as a conscientious objector, when my best friend's family got anti-Muslim graffiti on their garage door, etc.. In that sense, even if I didn't really appreciate it fully at the time, reading New X-Men as it came out was a pretty interesting meditation on a culture responding to an ontologically overwhelming crisis, in good ways and bad ways. I think this is watered down a bit by Morrison's insistence on taking a taste of every single piece of the X-Men pie-- I don't care about the Starjammers, and yeah, his take on Magneto at the end works in the context of his story, but is kind of a rotten thing to do with a long-established and well-liked character who, presumably, other characters would like to use. Overall I still like it, even if, honestly, when I do reread it I'm pretty selective in which parts I care to revisit.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:51
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Yeah he started as a very repressed, prim teenager and grew into a man who for various reasons had to remain pretty repressed and, literally, pent-up. It's a nice simple parallel between his character and his powers-- he can't let loose, he can't let his facade drop. Hence one of his most iconic moments if Jean holding back his beams on that butte so they can look each other eye to eye, a moment of vulnerability and contact that for him would have been incredibly rare and precious. I think it makes total sense that he'd be attracted to partners who can understand him and "read" him without making him articulate his feelings out loud. Maybe that's not totally healthy, but I think it's a good character beat, and it made the gravity of Emma feel really real and visceral in NEX. Him and Jean had a relationship that was basically, "we're mutants, we live this bizarre life, but we also love each other like anyone else on earth" whereas Emma offered "that's fine, I guess, but I can give you something that only a mutant telepath can give you, and I'll be proud of it." She pushed his limits a little in a way that Jean never did.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:49
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Open Marriage Night posted:You shouldn’t like Magneto. He’d enslave or kill every human on Earth if he had his way. Xavier makes nice with him as an attempt to keep him on some sort of leash. Let’s not forget what a jerk Xavier can be, and he’s supposed to be the good guy. Except of course for all the comics where he's not like that. Being a fan of superhero comics is always an exercise in selective reading and I think you and I have selected very different readings. That's certainly an interpretation of the basic premise of the character, and one that, as E&C pointed out, a lot of writers have gone to. I just think it's dull and a waste, and the most obvious and easy thing you can do with someone positioned as the more radical alternative to the reformist good guys. As a member of a marginalized group, one that the X-Men comics have often turned to for allegorical heft, I like it when the character set up to provide an alternative to ameliorating the powers that be gets to be something other than a pantomime villain. Claremont and Gillen had really compelling takes on the character to me. He made sense in their hands as somebody who'd been really traumatized by violence and oppression and was less patient with the long-game than some of the X-Men. I think Dr. Doom is a different animal completely because his basic elevator schtick is that he's a supervillain but with the resources, powers, and Kantorowiczean sense of self-sovereigny of a king. I agree that sympathetic portrayals of him tend towards the icky. But I think that's because the concept is intrinsically villainous in a way that Magneto's doesn't necessarily have to be. How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 21:52
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Didn't Emplate imprison and hideously torture Monet for years? This is part of what makes me iffy about Hickman's detached style of story-telling-- you'd think that, even if this wasn't dealt with right away, there'd be some kind of glad-- an ominous close-up, a reaction shot of her face or something. Instead he's just sketched into the background with all the other bad-guys and I'm going to be genuinely surprised if there's any acknowledgement at all that one of the most prominent characters of the run so far is being asked to coexist peacefully with her abuser, any sort of scene between them or scene where she talks about it, or anything. I'm willing to be surprised! I was surprised by the scene between Nightcrawler and Logan a few weeks ago, pleasantly so! But I'm still going to be surprised.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:51
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Billzasilver posted:Is that any worse than Sinister or Sabertooth? Or some not-yet-seen villains like Dark Beast and Sugar Man? It struck me as more "off" because Hickman is at least dealing with some of the dissonance of those characters being on the "same side" as the X-Men now. I think the Apocalypse stuff actually sells this idea pretty well-- he looks terrifying, huge and powerful and not at all humbled, in the last pages of this issue, and so his full-throated endorsement of Krakoa comes across as troubling and significant. Sinister's another good example. When Xavier and Magneto go to meet with him, he's not just acting evil, he's also acting erratic and unreliable. The narrative is sending us all sorts of fairly well-executed red flags to indicate something's not right. At the same time, we get enough of a peek at Xavier's motivations, as well as Magneto's, to make some reasonable working assumptions about what's driving them to make these ideological compromises. Whereas Emplate-- who I just chose as an example out of the whole scrum of bad-guys who showed up-- is just standing there, he doesn't talk, he isn't indicated by name. This in the same issue that Monet gets a whole page to herself, proving ("proving") that she's really "herself" (to whatever degree mind control or whatever may or may not be going on). You'd think she'd have some reaction to seeing her monstrous brother roll into town, much like we got to see certain characters react, or were at least given, as readers, clearer cues on how they might react, to Sinister and Apocalypse and Sabretooth.
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Sep 18, 2019 21:53
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Codependent Poster posted:House of and Powers are just setting up the status quo going forward. It's big broad strokes with some explanation put in here and there. I don't expect much time to be given to interpersonal relationships/conflicts unless it directly affects the setup. Chores??
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Sep 19, 2019 00:23
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McCloud posted:It's actually kind of difficult to overstate what Charles accomplishments would mean for the mutant population. I know it's a bit of a droll comparison to say the X-men are queer/minority coded, but as a queer person I can say that I can absolutely understand why the idea of Krakoa is so seductive. Speaking in very broad strokes, pretty much every single queer person lives in a society that otherizes them, and at best they live somewhere that accepts their otherness, and at worst..well you know. Even in the best case scenario we're constantly reminded that we're different from everyone else. We're practically non-existant in the culture around us, we're not the subject of love songs or the protagonists in block busters, we're an afterthought at best. Krakoa is a place where the others become the norm, where you're not an outsider looking in, where you are at the cultural centre. I recall the first time I went to a concert after Pride in brighton , and the feeling of liberation knowing everyone else was the same as you is impossible to describe, and it took me by surprise because I hadn't realized the extent to which I felt like an outsider in the society i was raised in. But more than that, Charles also gave them safety. They are beyond reprisal and punishment from bigots who wish to hurt them for simply being themselves. It's easy to see why they would be so fanatic in their devotion. If somebody invited me to a secret community of queer people but we all had to cut ourselves off from the outside world, speak a secret esoteric language and vow unwavering allegiance to a shadowy, distant, and frequently sinister genius, I'd say no thanks, I already have an MFA. But really, I think the premise you're describing is quite different from the frankly really ominous and icky society that Krakoa actually seems to be on the page. Imagine a queer community that opened its doors to all abusers, all TERFs, all racists and misogynists, just because they fit under the broad rubric of queerness. I don't know if that's utopian so much as it is just naive and stupid. It certainly hasn't ever worked out well for any queer community I've ever been part of. It looks flat out predatory-- the term "cult" has been thrown around a lot in the last few pages of this thread, and I think that's because Hickman is explicitly making it seem like a cult.
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Sep 19, 2019 10:11
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Skwirl posted:Has a mutant ever given birth to a non mutant? I don't recall Grayson Creed being a mutant but there's a lot about Grayson Creed I don't recall.
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Sep 20, 2019 08:27
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Not quite what Skwirl was asking but the antagonist of the first arc of X-Men: Gold was, IIRC, the human daughter of a mutant father.
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Sep 20, 2019 08:37
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BrianWilly posted:I personally wouldn't go as far as "this is just a promo for future books," but my general point remains: how many characters acting out-of-character does it take before we get to call it bad writing? How long do we have to wait for some great reveal that makes everything make sense again before it's considered bad writing? I agree with this and the substance of your previous post-- I remember a lot of this same rhetoric around his Avengers runs, in which the ominous and troubling ethical situations the characters were put in, and the distant, arid way in which they were often written, was waved off as just setting up the pay-off. But like-- I didn't like the pay-off either. I didn't like the world ending in nastiness and acrimony as a cabal of stiff-lipped dude kings curated their arc. I liked a lot of the mini-series and stuff that came out of it, but the run as a whole wound up leaving precisely the same sour taste in my mouth at the end as it did in the beginning. The fact is, and I don't want to cast aspersions on Hickman personally who I'm sure is very likely to be a wonderful guy, that I just don't like or agree with a lot of the fundamental moral principles that a lot of his stories emerge from, and I don't think they're an exciting or healthy way to take this medium. It's not just a clumsiness or lack of interest in adding in humanizing moments to his stories-- it's a blase disinterest in the overwhelming majority of humanity, period, in favor of telling ponderous fables about sad men making big decisions. Maybe he's exceptionally good at the kind of story-telling he likes to do-- I presume so, since people seem to love it. I just don't think it does much for me. I think a large part of it goes back to the big flaw in the mutant narrative in general-- that these are ostensibly stories about a marginalized population finding community and strength in each other, and, in the past decade or two, stories about that population coalescing as a political demographic. I love the elevator pitch of this series-- "ok, mutants have had enough and are making their own paradise-- what does it look like? what are its laws? what is its culture?"-- but I think the answers bore me because they are, precisely, answers furnished by the same kind of writer that has been furnishing them for decades: a straight white guy locked into believing that the horizon of the future is essentially, still, people that look like him except with cooler clothes and maybe super powers. My favorite three X-Men adjacent runs of all time would be -Morrison, who if nothing else has a long (albeit imperfect) history of being conversant with queer theory and culture, and well-attuned to the queerness of the superhero genre -Claremont, who is basically the Foucault of comic books and whose extravagant kinkiness has long been a running gag in online fandom -Leah Thompson's X-Tremists, which is more honest and blistering about sexuality than any comic by a guy I've ever read What's Hickman bringing to the table? I think these questions about what individual mutants think, how they reconcile their new lives with things they've left behind, etc., aren't just epiphenomenal because like, if we're supposed to take this narrative about Krakoa seriously, well, these are the people who live there, the people that make that society up. Society isn't a set of laws or a decision made by political leaders, it's the gestalt consensus and lived experience of the people that live in the midst of those laws. That's where the story is and I think we just aren't getting that. To wit: I don't buy the orgy jokes re: this last issue, because, well, why am I to believe that these characters are all going to bust into an orgy? I've seen them stolidly deliberate for pages at a time, conspire, make stern faces, and then this brief threadbare scrap of "socializing." The art sells a sense of cameraderie and intimacy and excitement, but Hickman isn't pulling his weight-- these characters still feel sexless and anomistic, like they're all hovering in orbit around each other. There's nothing there to make me give a poo poo about the macro level. I'm all in with the idea that mutant culture shouldn't adhere to the sexual and cultural mores of anywhere else-- give me polyamorous, pansexual Cyclops, give me, a la Claremont, characters just wandering around in bonding gear, let's unpack what gender presentation means in a society with a decent population of shape-shifters, lets for sure dig into all that, but like, in this comic, by this author, I barely even buy that any of these clowns are friends.
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Oct 3, 2019 21:36
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Fritzler posted:I want to see how much he hates Fantomex, Gambit and maybe Northstar. Just want to see a terrible conversation between all 4. I would love to see what Northstar is up to.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:01
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I really don't like this implication that Xavier has just been putting on a song and dance in every monologue he's given over the past five decades of comics. I'm also not sure when this fall-out with Magneto alluded to in the text piece happens, how long it lasts, what's been quietly retconned-- like, I don't know, was ripping Wolverine's adamantium out part of the plan? Was the Mutant Massacre part of the plan? Did they have any sort of heads-up on Cassandra Nova and Genosha-- for that matter, was Genosha always doomed to failure? Was the Dark Phoenix stuff something they could have prepared for or did prepare for or was that a fresh wrinkle? It just opens up a lot of questions completely separate from the characterization stuff, and maybe in a different context I'd be very interested in seeing those questions get resolved, but right now it seems like a weirdly myopic approach to writing shared characters in a shared universe.
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Oct 9, 2019 19:10
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I'll be honest, the last moment where I really though "oh, he's got me now, I'm hooked" is when I was absolutely sure after those panels that he was going to have Xavier and Magneto kiss. I was scrolling down on the splash page on the next page, with the fireworks in the sky, and was like "oh wow, he's pulling the trigger. They're gonna be kissing" and I was wrong. It's petty and micro-scale but I think that would have actually begun to sold me on the stakes of this new society-- if this new ideological approach could, after all this time, allow two characters for whom it's always been fairly easy to read simmering sexual tension, to finally get over their differences and just go for it.
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Oct 10, 2019 15:43
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Aphrodite posted:Wolfsbane can turn into multiple wolves. Well well well, look at Ms. Rahne over here with her fancy grad school degree and her Deleuze and Guattari superpowers. I see how it is.
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Oct 21, 2019 15:28
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I think even Hickman could agree with me that where should be a Doug Ramsey solo series in which every issue is about him going around to some new thing and saying "what up" and just getting its read on stuff. In pulse-pounding issue #17 Doug Ramsey finds out what an oyster thinks. Doug Ramsey gets the scoop on what the squirrels are saying... when Doreen Green ain't listening! Doug Ramsey translates the collected prose of Clarice Lispector into Doop on a dare. Doug Ramsey hangs out with a teacup and an escritoire. Doug Ramsey finds out what entropy's top five desert island albums are. Doug Ramsey and Gambit take a cajun cooking class-- you'll roux the day you miss this one, true believers. Doug Ramsey teaches the Phoenix Force how to say cusses in Dutch. And so on.
How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Oct 29, 2019 |
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Oct 29, 2019 04:02
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