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Maaku Hamiru is pretty good, but I'm a sucker for a Meaningful Name(tm), so my vote is for Akira Kurusu.
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Apr 14, 2017 03:31
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Powering through this game myself (and yeah, I'm another guy who bought a PS4 for it) and if I can get tired of it, I haven't yet, so I'll join in the LPs when I can. This is a really good game, though, you should buy it if you can. A question, though: why do some of you dislike the tonal clash in comparison to the other Persona games? I find it refreshing that we have three whole games now in which there is a discernible emotional thread... and I don't really see what's so wrong about the way it goes about establishing the tone either. I mean, look at the main character and his situation, and look at how the Velvet Room appears to him: no fancy elevators or limousine rides for Maaku, just chains and a prison cell to reflect the injustice done to him. If P3 was infused with moribund, existential sadness and P4 suffused with the joy of self actualization, the mood of P5 would seem to be anger; this is an angry young man we are in control of here, angry in the way previous Persona protagonists have not portrayed as being.* At least, that how I reacted, to the point I'm surprised and somewhat disappointed Arist isn't choosing the more dickish options being offered to him; due to the thorough unpleasantness with which everyone has been treating him, why should he be nice? (This is not, however, to say that our hero isn't, or wasn't a nice guy; on the contrary, he strikes me as having done everything right before his fall from grace, to the point of protecting a woman from a rapist... which should if anything, make him angrier.) Anger is the key, and a totally acceptable reaction to what's going on in this game... And the crux of the game would seem to be whether the anger within him becomes a conflagration to consume himself and those closest to him, or becomes a torch to protect the innocent and wronged, and expose the guilty. *P1's protagonist was pretty much a cipher, as is the standard for all RPGs at that time; P2's guy was little better and was meant to serve as a balance to the real protagonist, Maya; P3's protagonist seemed too emotionally repressed to really be angry at anything; and P4's protagonist... well... was many things, but outside of a very specific plot point that would frankly make anyone's blood boil, "angry" wasn't particularly one of them. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 16:23
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MythosDragon posted:The tonal shifts are in the game itself, even when not comparing it to 3 and 4. I'd give examples, but I'm pretty sure that would be spoilers, right? Ah, so for you, it's less the tone it's going for and the manner with which it tries to get there, yes? Fair enough; emotional manipulation can be annoying when too blatant, and even if all storytelling is arguably manipulation, there is a way to do it that's much more graceful. Nor is it particularly fun to be presented immediately with hostility straight out the gate, but I went into this game knowing something of the essential plot and themes, and reasoned that this beginning section was a set-up for later catharsis, an expectation which so far hasn't let me down yet. I truly don't mind being directed to certain emotional states in service of a story or theme, even if those emotions aren't particularly fun, but that sort of touches on the whole "are games art?" discussion that I would prefer not to get into. But they certainly chose a direct way to do it by just throwing you off the deep end in negativity, and if that doesn't work for you, than it doesn't work. As for tonal shifts, I think I know at least a couple of which you mean, but I find those part and parcel to this series, and nothing I've seen has been a deal breaker thus far. (Bear in mind that I am a certified weirdo who's played through things like Pathologic and liked them, so take my opinion with that in mind.) Re Red: Oh don't worry, there's plenty of interpretations for all of those things in terms of what the color represents. Artistically speaking, I have to echo that one guy's praise of how the menu uses so much red (a primary color, and a bright red too) without it being unobtrusive. That's hard to do, and worthy of praise. Arist posted:I should also say I'm mostly playing Maaku at the start as someone trying to keep his head down, but if you're worried I'm not going to be defiant enough later I'll keep that in mind. There's a few great options I was absolutely going to pick, though, if you're worried about those. Oh, good, I'll look forward to it. And please, I'm not trying to backseat-LP here; do what you think is best, and don't pay too much attention to me, just sharing my thoughts. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 18, 2017 19:44
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Dinictus posted:I really need to look through the entire anime now. That is some stellar voice acting and comedic timing. It's probably the best form to experience the story of P4, I would say, if you haven't played it. (Be warned, it amplifies everything, warts and all... and the warts are warty.) But yeah, how 'bout that P5, huh? Still good, and stylish.
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Apr 19, 2017 18:38
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Ohhh, yeah... there we go. I do not think I can put into terms how much I LOVE the entire Persona awakening thing this game has going on. No cards, and no Evokers, the Persona is a literal mask that changes into your spirit animal, which you physically tear off- a process that looks painful every time (which I also love). The sinister appearance, the process, the recurring motif of breaking chains (which comes up again many times)- it just looks so great. I also admire how quick the game is to throw you in the deep end- no hours of getting to know the school and your situation here, just: Day One: Arrive in city, you are degraded, and are vexed. Day Two: go to school, you are degraded and are vexed. Day Three: You go to school, end up in Bizarro Land, are kicked and punched by some weird pervert in a robe, and are vexed so much your vexation turns into a ghoul with a top hat who tells you to make your vexation known. Shows they paid attention to how much people complained about P4s relatively slow start.
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Apr 20, 2017 17:17
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:The one thing that disappoints me about Arsene's awakening is that it doesn't have Maaku whispering the traditional "Per... so... na..." as the one thing he says out loud all game. Other than that it fuckin' rules. I know, right!? It was so awesome in every other way, but there is tradition to follow, drat it! By the way, I personally love that no one in thread has thus far commented on the newest party member. It really is indicative of the up-to-eleven immersion in craziness that after magic castles, torture dungeons, and a pervert in robes beating you up, by the time we get to this point, it's like, "Alright, a talking cat mascot in a cell asking to be let out... Why not."
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Apr 20, 2017 22:20
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Arist posted:
And here would be the other reason why I'm surprised Maaku is being so nice, comparatively speaking. The ancillary dialogue in school, for some time, is just like this, either about the protagonist or anyone he knows and speaks with. Coming off of P4 and how welcoming Dojima and your school were, it's quite a jump; It'd probably take a while to capture screenshots of all of the things all the students say about how violent you are, what a freak you are, how they wish you'd gently caress off and die etc etc... these are the shittiest, meanest, most judgemental and narcissistic (which is to say, most realistic  ) teenagers imaginable.
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Apr 22, 2017 18:53
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Then again, I’m sure you two losers get along because the both of you are nothing but garbage. Get it? You’ve already gotten on Kamoshida’s bad side. That means the whole school’s against you!
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My name is William Kidd, And what God's Law forbid, Most wickedly I did When I sailed.  Yeah, that's pretty cool; the Persona designs are really great in this game. Yeah, Ryuji's heart is in the right place, and Mittleman does some great work with him; he is most definitely my favorite "starter bro" character in the series (with Junpei being a distant second).
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Apr 26, 2017 01:49
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Yeah, it's not really gentlemanliness that defines the party as a whole, it's rebellion against authority. Not ndcessarily corrupt authority, either. So really, in Ryuji's case, any pirate would have done.
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Apr 26, 2017 20:59
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MythosDragon posted:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, Shiho is the best. Shes the only person whos just straight up, "I hope Protag is okay" and she immediately became my favorite character, so obviously the next few hours got me. Right? Right? That part and Ryuji's introduction of believing your side of the story and immediately getting outraged on your part- they were like cool breaths of air on a hot summer's day after the cold brutality of the rest of the opening. It actually gives you a reason to continue with the plot beyond the "But thou must" nature of other video games, so all in all, I like this opening quite a bit (even with Ryuji's whole pie-in-the-sky idea that the victims of continual abuse would confess and offer proof because the school delinquent and the new student with an assault charge say so). Anyway, this update offers the first "Social Links" of this game, and already it's worth discussing how differently these are being handled this time around. First off, as Arist already pointed out, our first link with our bro Ryuji is the Chariot, the seventh card in the Tarot, rather than the Magician, the first card, and consequently the Arcana of the first real characters we meet in other Persona titles (Junpei in 3 and Yosuke in 4). It happens that way because that's what happens- on the first step of his journey, the Fool meets the Magician, who sets him on his initial path- it is the card of action, initiative, of making plans, the so called "masculine" principal. Their meeting typically forms the arc of the entire story (it is Yosuke's idea to use the persona's they discover to catch the murderer in P4, for example), so... it's interesting to consider the implications of the formation of the Chariot first. Another interesting thing: the way the Fool arcana shapes out. Like all Persona games, the Fool is associated with the protagonist and increases along with the story, but in the past, it's also been tied with the formation and development of a group- the SEES team in P3 and the Scoobies in P4. Yet here, the link is tied not with the partnership that Ryuji forms, but with Igor himself- a much greater level of interest in the proceedings than he's ever shown before. Another thing with redolent implications... but that's as much as I'll say for now about that. And yes, the Protag is a glorious snarky rear end in a top hat and some of his responses are really great.
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Apr 28, 2017 13:48
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Hm... I should have specified. By "meet" I mean "actually form Social Link with", because only then do you really get into the nitty gritty of why that relationship is related to that Arcana and all their resultant personae, as well as the "lesson" behind that card. In the former two Persona titles, the link of the Magician was either first (P4, even before the Fool is established) or could be formed early on (P3, with either Kenji or Junpei)... so this time around, the script is flipped a little.
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Apr 28, 2017 17:30
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Arist posted:The stakes have never been higher. We’re about to get expelled, and if that goes through, the terms of our probation mean we’re headed straight to juvie. Kamoshida is one devious son of a bitch. For the record, Kamoshida is voiced by D.C. Douglas, probably best known as Albert goddamn Wesker. He’s an all-around amazing VA, and while Kamoshida’s Japanese voice isn’t bad, this is probably a straight upgrade. I've heard Kamoshida's JP voice, and it... well it seemed really weird to me, kinda nasally and way less overtly threatening than Douglas' interpretation here, and it didn't really click with me... until this scene here. What strikes you is how... completely unconcerned he is with everything that's happened; one of his students just attempted suicide, and he doesn't even sound remotely sorry. It's skin-crawling to hear, and just makes everything seem even worse. So, yeah... good job, game, for presenting a villain so immediately and viscerally hateful. And... well, it really doesn't do us any good here, as this isn't a VLP, but talking of voice acting, Morgana's initial reappearance in cat form is a really stellar example. Ryuji's VA in particular really knocks it out of the park; his "Does that mean you have a phone?" line is amazingly delivered, and his response to your "Meow?" response (which is, in fact, the only correct response, Arist, well done  ) makes it sound like he's two seconds away from a conniption then and there, it's great. So good job... uh, Max Mittelman? Good work, there.
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May 1, 2017 20:10
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vdate posted:I will say I am surprised that Arist did not pick the 'gently caress yes let's do this' options with Ryuji after talking with Ann. Kamoshida was skeevy enough beforehand; I can't help but feel that that little revelation should have been enough to tip Joker over the edge. I suppose he's already been burned on the 'good deed' front? Alls I know is, I certainly couldn't hit the "He deserves it" button hard enough after the powwow with Ann ( would have used a jackhammer if any harder). But I suppose I can see where Arist is going here; killing somebody (or potentially turning them into a vegetable forever) might weigh on his conscience, especially if his new label by society as a neer-do-well might drive him to never, ever do a bad deed again out of spite.
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May 3, 2017 01:56
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mauman posted:Anytime I got annoyed with Morgana, I'd look at him and then go "ITS A KITTY" mode. Probably why Sojiro backed down so quick; it is the rare, heartless man that cannot be softened by the full use of "kitty kitty aww kitty." Interesting thing about Morgana's social link: he is the Magician, and his tarot card says Le Bateleur, which is translated in french as street performer- a juggler, a tumbler, a player of tricks. It could refer to a kind of magician, but more refers to the cards and balls, "nothing up my sleeve" kind, rather than any mystical figure... which fits rather splendidly to the game and his role in it.
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May 9, 2017 11:48
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I quite like Dr. Takemi, punk goth and very possibly a quack who probably wouldn't actually poison you, but... She's a character, and a great early source of Guts raising; I'm glad that they've pretty well run with social links that raise your stats, all of them can be raised a little by at least one- but only on a rank up, so its not inexhaustible. Still there are quite a bit more opportunities to raise your stats than previous games, which does make it a little more forgiving. Although, some of you might be wondering by this point if the story is going to do that cut away to Sae demanding to know about x person every time Maaku forms a social link, well... it will. And it gets somewhat trying, in part because it weakens an already tenuous framing device (you told us you didn't have a lot of time, lady, and yet you spend a lot of it trying to find out about possible accomplices which may or may not be real?), and also because it seems like an exercise in futility as Maaku obviously isn't saying poo poo. That hi-five, though, is endearingly bad.
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May 16, 2017 01:28
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Arist posted:I don’t say it enough but these new Persona models are really excellent across the board. They sure are. Another great thing about fusing personae in this game is that they all, to my knowledge, have a unique awakening that more or less completely fits who they are supposed to be, or at least seem to. Agathion here, for example, seems like an overeager kid who can't wait to start busting faces; another persona might sound completely different, more regal, comical, sinister, or what have you. There are no repeats that I've seen; the only such effort to differentiate personae in the past have been with Jack Frost and all of his offshoots, and only then to incorporate that "hee-ho" thing they do. It's really cool, and the only drawback in this sequence is that you lose Arsene in finding it out (and I'm pretty sure you have to use him here, if you don't want another persona you could easily acquire through adventuring at this point). I do have to wonder how they haven't by this point incorporated actually going to the Velvet room a little bit more seamlessly in dungeon-crawling times... or better establish why the various Persona teams are OK with a leader who spends long moments just staring into space and possibly giggling for no reason apparently discernible.
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May 19, 2017 21:24
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Yeah, Berith and the "Heavenly Protector" as that Persona's name is still secret (though easily guessable) are real pissers in combat; Berith is immensely strong compared to the other shadows and past the Chapel, you start encountering enemies with attacks that hit twice, an absolute bane for your characters at this level as everyone's HP is still low (and you don't have anything that reflects physical yet). Think the first dungeon would take it easy on you? Oh no: you're in SMT land, and life comes at you fast. For this reason, Kamoshida's Palace is one of the more difficult and soul crushing Palaces to do in one go, despite being at the beginning. There's ways to do it, of course, generally by exploiting every weakness you can, but it's messy and not very fun.
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May 21, 2017 23:48
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vdate posted:OK but did you really expect any other answer? At least for the first boss it would legitimately be interesting to get the skin-of-your-teeth experience in addition to the one where everything goes smooth. Indeed, and this is an SMT game we speak of, after all; it just wouldn't be right if you portrayed it as an effortless experience with no loss or scary bits. Other bosses, use your discretion, but here? It'd be more informative to see both. vv Only if you do things exactly right, and even then, all it takes is a knockdown on one character before a good run spirals into failure. Being feast or famine to the degree this game is doesn't make it particularly easy. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 16:35
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Yeah, there we go; I really, really like Kamishida's Shadow, it really is a triumph in both design and implication. The characters can talk about going about things stealthily all they like, but this is a Swashbuckling Adventure (tm)- it's all very well to go on about plans routes and calling cards, but you know that the bad guy is hidden behind the curtain with his men, and it will come to a rapier fight on the parapet or some such. You don't hammer through what an awful shithead Kamoshida is and then not find a new meaning to the ter, "beating the devil out of him". One little understated thing I loved about the calling card scene was how Ann doesn't even look at Kamoshida, just keeps her head bowed the whole time.
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May 30, 2017 18:02
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Sojirou's pretty great, yeah, and I'm glad to see more turning around on him. His Social Link is quite good and possibly my favorite (I might have to think about that, though, because there are some really, really good ones in this game). As for Morgana... I generally like him and where his character goes, but I don't blame anyone for being put off by him at this time, because his "thing" for Ann is honestly kinda creepy and... stays that way, although it becomes much easier to ignore later.
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Jun 1, 2017 19:15
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I don't really blame Ryuji for being conflicted about this; yes, it's what we wanted to happen, but... seeing somebody do a complete 180 like that is concerning, because of how much it smacks of "brainwashing"- of forcing somebody to accept the "correct" viewpoint without them going through the development necessary to make that change natural. I mean, the way it's portrayed here is most akin to religious epiphany, but it was no God or self examination that brought it about- it was us, actively beaking the evil thoughts out of him. The fact that the game doesn't shy away from presenting that ambiguity, and the question if it really is any kind of solution for short or long term, is something that does impress me, even if they don't really go as far as they could have in grappling with that issue.
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Jun 8, 2017 20:50
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 I know the gutter, and I know the stink of the street! Kicked like a dog, I have spat out the bile of defeat! All you beauties who towered above me, you who gave me the smack of your rod- Now I give you the gutter! I give you the judgment of God!And now we come to the true, juicy meat of the game; dealing with Kamoshida was forced upon you, but the reality of the world and the game's skill of setting up such delicious assholes and then letting you tear them down is great for putting you on the train for some good old fashioned mob justice. Are you pumped? I'm pumped. Oh, we're also voting. Well, I'm kind of a geek and a fan of the classics so... FriendsOfABC?
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Jun 15, 2017 20:41
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Hunt11 posted:Or it could be because he wants to look more harmless and hopefully mitigate the amount of poo poo he gets for being viewed as a criminal delinquent. This. The Clark Kent effect, she be real, yo.
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Jun 22, 2017 17:06
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Yeeep, that's... that's Mementos, all right. I'd like to say the monotonous soundtrack gets easier as the game goes on, but that would be a lie; hope you can phase out the music! (Or more likely, put your TV on mute...) I mean, geez, as least Tartarus sorta-kinda-not-really gave variations between its themes per floor (not nearly enough to make it pleasant, mind, but enough so I could ignore the track more easily for longer). Really, I would ignore it if I had the option, but... you shouldn't really do that; it's a good place to farm resources, equipment, and money, and it is the only way, as Arist says, to advance Mishima's social link. Mishima is... well, Mishima is a dweeb, no two ways about it, but experience to your backup party members is very good, and I do like his SL and it's theme. So don't scrimp.
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Jun 26, 2017 19:47
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Aw. Chariot might not stretch the boundaries of the Tarot meaning in any specific way, but it's still has some really nice moments. Also, hope you go see Mr. Yoshida again, he's a cool guy and I like him.
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Jun 29, 2017 21:05
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DeafNote posted:
I suppose I do feel kinda bad (because I have a little black and white myself), but... he's still a pompous tit who makes trouble, so I mash that button without guilt.
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Jul 6, 2017 01:33
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Arist posted:Uh-oh! Seems like the Phantom Thieves have gotten themselves into yet another wacky situation! D'you know, I could hear the laugh track and studio applause after you said this line. This series is so weird that way: genuine cosmic horror, existential dread, and pathos regarding man's inhumanity to man bumping up against waaaaaaaaacky high-school sit-com shenanigans! :iamafag: And the silent protagonist is in yet more hot water because his companions can't keep their big mouths shut (and he can't open his unless allowed). Clunky, but I don't actually find it so annoying here, because recall that these kids are still pretty far from their ideal character developments still. Yusuke might be being a dick here (and yeah, he kinda is), but you need to remember he's just only met these guys a few days ago- he has no reason or desire to bear all his dark poo poo to total strangers, especially two idiots who can't take a hint... an issue not really helped by Ryuji failing to understand the sometimes quite complicated feelings abuse victims can have for their abusers (Ryuji failing to understand things is... something of a running theme, you'll find  ). The relationship between the characters here is kinda jagged, even in comparison to other Persona games (especially 4), but honestly, I dig it- it feels, well, a lot more authentic in how meetings between such characters would actually go down. Even if the characters in question are more caricatures...
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Jul 7, 2017 22:18
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I wouldn't call Ryuji stupid, myself; he's more slow and myopic then straight-up dumb, and his temperament issues don't really help matters. We're still a little way into a very long game, so there is a lot of development to go.
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Jul 10, 2017 16:43
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Arist posted:
I love this guy. Really, that there are so many interesting side characters that actually makes the place you're living feel like a gently caress-huge city is one of this games' strength. Meeting new people was pretty rewarding in P4, too, but, really, I find more characters stick out in my mind in P5 than P4 (the only one I remember, besides your SLs, was Funky Student, but then, he's really all you need, isn't he?)
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Jul 21, 2017 18:00
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Shalalaaa, your smile…/Shalalala, during the rice season… No, no, that’s no good! Ah can’t let m’country side show any! I need to write a soul-shaking rock song… I need the gods of rock to speak through me!
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GeneX posted:So did the game forget about the whole "running an artist factory farm and kicking them out with no life skills" thing? It kinda feels like his great crime is supposed to be extreme plagiarism related to Yusuke rather than ruining multiple lives, which is a bit of a letdown from Kamoshida's sexual and physical harassment of the volleyball team (with attempted coercion of Ann into sex on the side.) Like, okay, he's a fraud, but the art factory farm seems like a much worse moral failure than hijacking Yusuke's childhood and letting his mom die. Yeah... I don't think Madarame's skills are being forgotten or downplayed, exactly, but it does feel like somebody on the team decided to make things a little personally darker for Yusuke to make this boss seem like a progression from Kamoshida and a crime worthy of brainwashing somebody. I mean, I didn't really need it: I was already invested with the "artist farm" thing, and as a good demsoc there are few things as viscerally abhorrent to me as the theft of a person's labor... but murder is a much more visceral- and thus a more cinematic-crime than plagiarism, because it's far easier to get people invested that way. It's why you see movie after movie of people taking down crime bosses, serial killers, and murderers, and not so much, say, hedge fund managers, health insurance CEOs and and bankers of too-big-to-fail banks that are run into the ground, even though the latter group destroys more lives than any two bit thug can ever hope to. That, and Yusuke is a party member now, and has to be completely shriven of his past to move forward, blah de blah, insert character development here.
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Aug 3, 2017 20:30
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While I will not spoil things and have no intention to, Kawakami's Link is really good, in terms of content and relationship to respective Tarot; possibly best in game for me, but I struggle with that between this and others. But I'm not going to go to bat for how it comes about, and I was just as worried at the beginning as some of you must be. Ann's S-Link is... interesting, but ultimately not one of my favorites, even though it definitely is the best Lovers S-Link in the Persona games. Also: Arist posted:
The cunning-est spy, like unto the very shadows! Holmes himself is no match! 
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Aug 15, 2017 23:37
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Arist posted:
As God is my witness, I've never been able to resist choosing this line every time, either. Both because a) cops, ick; B) Maaku seems like the sort of person to do that anyway; and C) it's not really like we can make any claim to secrecy that makes sense, given that we are here, on a public glass bridge, flagrantly discussing sensitive matters where any schmuck can hear them and relate them back to the recent broadcast. You shouldn't go, but if you're going to go, why not go all the way?
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Aug 17, 2017 22:04
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Aww, poo poo, it's best boy Goro! A shame the OP didn't catch a picture of his dreamy smile... Daww, heart-melting!  And I am appreciative that the game isn't really shying away from the very real dilemma that the powewr of changing hearts presents. Because no matter how you look at it, it is forcibly changing peoples perceptions of themselves and their actions, and that makes things squicky; Maaku said that they only target criminals, and that may be true so far, but... it is a real slippery slope before them, as shows like Death Note have already shown. As the game has presented us with actions, our scenarios, as Petra has already said, have been presented as the lesser of two evils*, but these things still bear thinking about. *Well, the first one was, anyway; there was no need for Yusuke to force the issue as he did in the second case, and that he did is the only reason we were stuck in that situation at all.
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Aug 26, 2017 02:17
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W.T. Fits posted:I dunno, Death Note wasn't so much a slippery slope as it was a sheer drop-off that Light gleefully dove into head first. Well, yeah... I meant slippery slope as presented by the story, not necessarily what the characters within the story do with it. Death Note is far from a perfect story (rehashed some story beats too much and suffered from too many ancillary characters, for two), but one of its great strengths is it's ability to present the classical lure of power and a variety of ways to react to it, and through that struggle between viewpoint, posit other, greater questions: whether it is possible to wield the power of death without becoming a criminal like Light, what measures are necessary to catch such a villain, how society chooses what to deify and the rightness of that, etc. And more impressive is that these questions are never really given a definitive answer. And in this story, the characters are not given the power to kill, but the power to change: to make a bad man good, or at least to direct him down a path you preordain, and we've done that so far not just to Kamoshida and Madarame, but two of our high school peers as well (as well as... Nekohara? Is that his name?). These targets were all "good" targets, as in the harm they were doing is measurable and could not be stopped by other means, but the fact remains that we chose them ourselves, because they violated our own sense of right and wrong, and we have to question just how much the fact that they hurt us, the people we care about, weighs into our decision. Because Mishima is an eager little beaver who has jumped on our bandwagon wholeheartedly, and Ryuji keeps seeing his "lovely" adults and rankles over the lack of respect he still has to deal with. And Morgana has already been established as being clever, but lacking foresight and self awareness. How long, I wonder, before it starts becoming not about "fixing the ills of society" but about "securing our place within it?"
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Aug 26, 2017 12:38
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ajkalan posted:I don't know if showing this drunk man and not connecting the dots that he's also the jerk at the hotel is an attempt at dramatic irony or the writers being deliberately obtuse, but I don't think it works well either way. I don't really think it's as bad as what you're saying. We are speaking of the worst day of Maaku's life, after all; there probably is an element of suppression that's going on here, especially given how high up the guy appears to be in society, and how badly Maaku was hosed up by his whim. I don't read this so much as "Maaku isn't connecting the dots because melodrama/pacing", but rather "The very sight of the man who ruined Maaku's life bring up a lot of poo poo he really doesn't want to deal with right now, plus he doesn't know the guy's name, so why torment himself?", which doesn't strike me as being too unreasonable from a writing standpoint. Bear in mind it took a good 2-3 months of being Ryuuji's friend for him to really open up about the details of why he's in Tokyo, and even then when in a place of comfort and trust.
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Aug 28, 2017 13:36
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 drat! We're in a tight spot!So anyone who was wondering how long such a prominent and public hiding spot would last... well there you go: just about one boss, just like the last one. And while yes, it is Ryuji's fault for giving the game up (which I think we all knew would happen as well, I think), I'm with Arist in saying that Yusuke should not be pointing fingers at this juncture. I mean, we all had a good month or so to point out to each other that hey, maybe our meeting place is a little too flagrantly public to discuss "certain things", especially given them being accosted by the cops, and Maaku himself knowing about at least one person obviously following them. And given that Morgana approved the hideout in the first place for whatever reason and said bupkiss before today, I don't imagine anyone in our group has the ground to come the I-told-you-so routine. Criminal masterminds, we are not. And yes, Sojirou continues great, even if Maaku wasn't a party to his tenderness today. When I first played this, he came off as such a jerk that I had begun nicknaming him "the Old Goat" in my head, and... well, as you can imagine, I had really started ti regret it right about now. Arist posted:
I love these guys.
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Aug 30, 2017 18:23
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Naturally! They’re dope! Things’ve been so down in Shibuya lately… I keep hearing about all these gangs. Guess Japan’s not so different from my own country...
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Omobono posted:Let's be honest, there are probably three other morons at school loudly declaring that, Ryuji just happens to be an actual Phantom Thief (and thus doubly a moron). Well, he may not be loud, but there is that Starry-Eyed Student that freely tells anyone who talks to him that he's totally a Phantom Thief. (Of course, I gather not that many people talk to him much at all, so he may not count.)
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Aug 30, 2017 22:07
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Not really much to add at this juncture, except to recall that by this point in the Temperance link, I was feeling much more comfortable about where things are going. While the situation of your homeroom teacher moonlighting as a maid for one of her students is still quite "Oh Japan"... first we pay her 5000 to take a nap, and now we did it to eat a ramen bowl that for sure doesn't cost more than 800 yen a pop. Even if she is still being cagy about why she needs the money, that's still hilarious. And thanks also for choosing all of the responses I didn't in my playthrough, because I tend to roleplay these games and care about nerdy things like "tone" and "conversation flow".
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Sep 7, 2017 20:10
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ApplesandOranges posted:For all the things that P5 does right, positive portrayal of homosexuality is still something they have a long way to go for.  Yeah. Because Japan has made same sex sexual activity legal (or at least not prosecutable in and of itself) since 1880 when the installed the Napoleonic Code, and Japanese media has portrayed homosexuality for at least that long if not longer (seriously, some VERY saucy woodcuts back in the day), some people have this idea that Japan is this bastion of tolerance regarding homosexuality and alternative lifestyles which... No. Christ, no; not in the least. You're not able to be prosecuted for sexual activity, but same-sex marriage is not recognized and there are zero legal protections for getting fired for being gay, being refused goods and services for being gay, or seeking police protection if somebody does want to give somebody the ol' bashin'- not to mention hate speech or misrepresentation like the end of this very update. Things are changing for the better, of course- just last year, the Pew Research Center found that 54% of polled Japanese citizen think homosexuality should be accepted by society, for example, with 36% disagreeing, and there's a hefty age gap there, I'm sure you'll be shocked to know  - but in terms of media representation, well... there is a very segregated genre which deals with homosexual relationships and generally, the Japanese audience does not, on the whole, care for being surprised or challenged (you know- a bit like Americans!  ). Consequently there's still only a handful of books/movies/comics/shows/games that admit that the QUILTBAG+ community is even a thing that happens, and of these, fewer still are willing to actually interface with being a non-straight, non-cis individual and the issues such people face, lest they find their work pigeonholed into aforesaid genre because "that's where the queer stuff goes." And a lot of the representation that does get in is crap like this: burly men in flamboyant clothes who are always horny and thrusting themselves upon any "cute" boy they see, hot girls who kiss each other and press their tits together because they know people are watching, and trans girls who have nothing better to do than "entrap" innocent young men because nothing worse than being tricked into falling for anything but a "pure" chick, amirite? Yuck.It's particularly egregious here, a game ostensibly about hating injustice and reforming the ills of society, to have such a massive, pulsating blindspot. I mean, in 2015 the Shibuya and Setagaya wards announced they would try to recognize same-sex couples with a proof of partnership, which isn't quite the same as legalizing gay marriage, but would be used in, say, establishing hospital visitation rights, or renting an apartment in both names. It seems a good opportunity to have one of the Phantom Thieves' targets be somebody who is preventing somebody from visiting a sick relative because of homophobia or something, but alas. That seems to be a little bit too revolutionary, even for this game. (And wow, guys... I was a little down on Ryuji too, here, but no, I wouldn't find it wicked funny if he got raped. Geez!)
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Sep 12, 2017 14:42
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Arist posted:Part 52: 6/19-6/20: Makoto, Makoto, Makoto More like: Makoto... I think it's fair to say at this point that, while I like other characters in this story for different reasons that I will bring up later, Makoto here is probably my favorite character and the character besides the protagonist that most exemplifies the main themes of this game. Here is a character who, unlike some of our party members who were condemned for real or perceived wrongs (i.e. Ryuji), did everything right: kept on the straight and narrow, got good grades, didn't make a fuss, and even made Student Council President in one of the most prestigious schools in Tokyo (we are told). In any other drat anime or game, she'd be admired and praised, and probably have enough power to run the drat school (these stories get weird atimes) and would be already on the career path of their choice, but here, what does she get? The principal foists off duties on her not her responsibility and that she is plainly not equipped to handle, and holds her future and family reputation hostage to keep her copacetic; her guardian, whom she very plainly loves and admires, blows up at her for saying the wrong thing at supper; her council members and fellow students cast aspersions on her ability to handle things and accuse her of only doing anything to secure a college recommendation... and now the final straw: our own party, the heroes of the story, rejecting her and deriding her as useless, and in so doing committing the very thing that was committed against them, and that you would think they would feel the pain of more than anybody- relying on vicious rumors and hearsay to dictate the "truth" of a person. Now, it is understandable to a degree that this is how they'd react- Makoto did, after all, pressure them into this through blackmail- but it should be obvious to anyone watching her actions (as everyone in our party should be, considering Makoto's "ability" at stealth ) that she's doing all of this because she is genuinely concerned about the threats to her students and wants to do something about it... and is still trying to process the guilt, shame, and horror of Kamoshida's confession, and if she could have done something about it had she been more perceptive, more active, more what have you.And you have to remember, that even if we have pretty well established ourselves as the Phantom Thieves, our illustrious party is still composed of incomplete people at the beginning of their development, who, if we are going with the Tarot interpretation, are still very much in the reversed and contrary position. Ryuji (chariot) still vomits his anger out against anything that gets his dander up instead of mnnaking it work for him; Ann (Lovers) cannot recognize the feelings of a sympathetic person and disrupts harmony by heeding the same apparatus of hearsay that alienated her; Yusuke (Emperor) displays only judgmental pomposity instead of the guiding authority we should... and the closest thing we have to a coach and guide (Magician) is clever, but also an insecure, prideful wreck who would sooner eat broken glass than admit that he wasn't the hottest of hot shits. There is no reason that they would just come together here, much as we would want them to, and to see our champions of justice reject someone who wants to help them in such an unjust manner...it's uncomfortable to watch, to say the least. But it is understandable, and I am gratified that the game is making the point that just because somebody has suffered from prejudice and know intimately how it feels to be shunned- that doesn't automatically make that person more enlightened and less likely to shun others for prejudicial reasons. So this game's pretty cool for that. ...That having been said, I hope Arist does what he says and upload a video of Kaneshiro's English voice, because... um, wow. I mean... I kinda think I know what they were going for?... But it doesn't work?... Very much at all?... You have to hear it to believe it, is what I mean.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:58
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