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Blademaster_Aio posted:But they have guns? I mean, bad idea provoking them further. Doubtful, actually. Japan has a rigorous gun control law that has been reflected in the media- it's why you typically never see any guns, or far too many in anime, but not if it's set in Japan and making pretense to realism- and while this is a fantasy story, it's set in modern Tokyo, so this is reflected in the story. It's why so much has been made of getting model guns, and honestly Maaku would probably be in enough trouble if he was caught with one of those. Yes, yes, Mafia group, and they don't obey laws and alla that... but even the Yakuza have tacit agreements with the government to stamp down of gun proliferation, so between the strict embargo at ports and the stonewalling of the still very large Yakuza groups, it's often too much of a pain to just get a gun for just anybody to use, even for Mafia groups like Kaneshiro's- and even if he did have one, a gun related incident raises way too many red flags and attention by the police. Not that any of this really matters, as they all probably had other weapons and after all, had Makoto pinned down in a way that they could hurt or kill her before any of the gang could do much at all.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:23
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:That voice does not match that face. Ask these guys! But yeah... that's Kaneshiro, the threatening criminal genius with Shibuya under his thumb. Are you threatened?
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Sep 14, 2017 16:25
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Arist posted:Makoto’s Awakening (Watch this) I really hope you guys are doing what Arist says and are watching these videos. I really, really do. 
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Sep 16, 2017 20:47
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GeneX posted:Makoto brushing you off because you're too stupid to be friends with is another good thing She's not kidding about that, by the way. She is a gated Confidant, meaning you have to be at Knowledge 3 before you can begin it- student council prez don't truck with no dummies. And just like Ann before Kamoshida was dealt with, she's got other things on her mind. And, uh, that's a scarf that Makoto's Thieves getup is wearing, not a cape. Arist posted:...gains Dream Needle from Inugami’s skills. Personas have certain inheritance types that determine what skills you can give them from fusion (though skill cards ignore this), and the Gallows process picks randomly from the applicable skills. As you can imagine, this is abusable as hell, though with a few caveats. You can only do it once per Persona per day. Furthermore, part of a Persona’s damage calculations is its base level, so while this can be used to hold onto a really good Persona for a lot longer, you’re still going to want to ditch it eventually. Not true, actually; it has nothing to do with the day. You can only do it once with one persona, as long as it remains in your inventory. Thus, if you strengthen a Persona through Gallows, register it, delete it from your inventory through fusing or dismissal, summon the same persona drom you inventory, and strengthen it again. You can do this as many times as you like, and the only caveat is having enough money to constantly withdraw an increasingly expensive Persona. So yeah, you can abuse that... as long as you have the scratch for it. Which you decidedly will not have, unless you exploit casting confuse on Mementos bosses for money.... resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 00:02
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Strange Matter posted:I'm just impressed that the game took the time to give Ann and Makoto a scene together to talk out their own issues. Bechdel Test Passed! It is a really nice moment, isn't it, where two characters just see each other and apologize for past unpleasantness outside of the plot or character prompts?
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Sep 21, 2017 17:58
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Solitair posted:I was told that Ohya's Confidant is the worst in the game, both in terms of story and the rewards you get from it. Does anyone agree? Beyond one scene that is probably ill advised, I thought it was all right, even though the perks you get are as mentioned not very good. The voice actress does a good job with her; it's Yukino's voice actress from the last game, and she does a good job with portraying the character- one of my favorite bits is the establishing scene is the way Ohya shifts from silly drunk to perceptive reporter in one dramatic cutaway ("As if.") but it's not really something you get from reading.
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Sep 24, 2017 02:54
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Awww, thanks, Ari! I like sharks and skullmen too!  (I also like Makoto's finisher, because she sometimes hollers out "FISTS OF JUSTICE!" and it's kind of the greatest thing ever but you don't really get that without audio for the picture)What I don't really like is this Palace, especially if you try to do it all in one day. It's not quite the slog that Kamoshida's Palace was, because you have a stronger pool of Personae and thus more flexibility and resistances, but the game ups rthe difficulty by giving you stronger enemies to fight- enemies that not only have no weaknesses, meaning they can only be knocked down with crits (like our friends the Oni- fortunately they are susceptible to ailments and have rotten Luck) and enemies that cast everybody's favorite attacks: the instant-death move, in Light and Darkness flavors. And depending on the level you approach the bank, you might not really have a good counter for either... meaning that while you're here, you have to either bite the bullet and hope luck favors you (a bad idea in these games), or try to acquire both an Angel and an Orobas so you have some form of defense against Hama and Mudo, and try to bring down an Oni through magic or crits. And that takes SP. A lot of it. So satire or not, this entire dungeon functions as another wake-up call up this games ladder, where the difficulty curve more starts to resemble a wall- that's the way it goes in SMT land, I guess.
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Sep 26, 2017 13:09
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Arist posted:It's from a parody of an Australian series about a man at a party who slaps the child of one of the other guests and the drama that unfolds from there. It was based on a novel that won awards and even got an American adaptation two years ago. Oh, yeah- The Slap. That was all the rage a little while ago, my mother read the book and found it interesting. Never was moved to seek out the TV series though; the book is set in Australia with the family of the slapped child being Aboriginal (race relations and the problems that people face being something of a major theme), but as I recall the cast of the show is all white.
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Sep 27, 2017 00:26
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amigolupus posted:Also, I'm guessing the passwords feel less clunky in Japanese? Because it's making our cast of idiots look even worse right now. I can't help but imagine that Makoto's been rolling her eyes and using a sarcastic tone in this entire section. That... wouldn't surprise me either, nor would it surprise me about the pun thing... they do love their puns over there. But I hope Ari does OK, and give him Kudos for attempting the dreaded algebra, at least! (I might have had to write something down at that part too, numbers and me haven't really mixed...)
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Oct 4, 2017 13:34
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Funky Valentine posted:It's never really revealed what they did with the Kaneshiro-dollary-doos. Unless Iwai now has a bunch of fake money in his back room. Probably just burned em or threw em away; the money itself is worthless, after all, it's the case that Iwai probably took. By the way, that's another place that the voice acting is really good- Ryuji's "Nooo" really does sound like all of the holidays have been cancelled, it's great.
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Oct 11, 2017 21:53
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Arist posted:
Man, I love the goofy answers in this game- not just for the factor to our MC, but for the tangents it causes some of our more out-there party members... particularly Morgana, as moments like this remind us that he isn't as smart as he pretends (although this instance does come off a little more as childish naivete than straight up stupidity). Also, I'm glads we've gotten to Hifumi, because she's pretty much the best. (and that's in both personality and awarded skills) And Chihaya is... not, but I see her as less evil or assholish and more... well, you'll see. Although it is true that maxing her link is a really good way to get the flexibility of time needed to get all the social links in one go.
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Oct 15, 2017 18:13
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Wait, in that case… maybe the Holy Stone is supposed to help you get better at cooking!
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GeneX posted:I kinda feel like Kawakami's story is just a bit too overwrought. No need for the part time job stuff, just say you were tutoring him, he got stressed, ran out on you, and died in a car crash. I like the idea though, and I like how Kawakami immediately goes back to refusing to do any work, with a new justification. Well, that's kinda this game's whole thing, isn't it? On the one hand, it wants to touch upon serious subjects like abuse, corruption, and the neglect of the poor and destitute by the more fortunate ... but on the other hand, it's also a picaresque melodrama in which both the villains and their victims are meant to be symbols rather than relatable characters, sort of how Fantine in Les Miserables is meant to represent all of the put upon women of society, but Les Mis isn't exactly a melodrama (although it had a lot of melodramatic elements). So what you have is a villain like Madarame, meant to be a stand-in for the greater ills of plagiarism and exploitation of students, as almost this gross parody who was singlehandedly responsible for everything bad that happened in Yusuke's life, and you have Kawakami, with her lost student and subsequent exploitation by that students guardians, meant to less be a stand-in for anything in particular except the themes of the arcana associated with her, which we will get to I presume, when her link is finished. Honestly, whether it works or doesn't is up to you... and I would never presume to say that this particular mixing of themes is perfect, not when there is a so much better example in the Yakuza series over yonder, in nearly every way that counts. But for me, I would say that it mostly works, or that it does in Kawakami's particular case. I find that it does dovetail into the themes of the Temperance card pretty well, and moreover, I appreciate the paradigm shift incorporated into the writing of this SL: when I first met Kawakami, I thought she didn't want me to be in her class because she believed the rumors about me, or otherwise didn't care enough to say different...but now we learn it's because I served as a reminder of her greatest failure and where everything went wrong for her, and the profession she used to love turned into a millstone around her neck. It had nothing to do with me... well, yes it did, but not in the way I thought. I find that to be a good incorporation of the theme of things not being as they seem... and of course, it provides us with even more villains tainting the worlf through their villainy. I don't really know where people are getting the idea that the world is fundamentally cruel and unjust, when the message of the game seems to me to be that the only thing cruel and unjust about the world is people like Kamoshida, and Madarame, and Kaneshiro, and these awful fuckers leeching off Kawakami. Just my two cents, anyway.
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Oct 19, 2017 00:19
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RareAcumen posted:He knows better than to open his mouth because there're only six classes and thus, six people who could know his secret. If anyone starts whispering about his in class crimes, he could easily trace it back to them and completely destroy them. None of them fight demons for days on end, he could easily jab their eyes out or give em' the ol' heart tap or whatever terrifying act of violence they spread about him without even trying. Actually, it'd just be him and him alone knows the secret, because this is the only real classroom these kids stay in. You're thinking of the western-style high school in which all the chilluns go to the respective teachers rooms for their period, but in Japan, it's the teachers come to your classroom. Your homeroom is your room, and the desk is your desk; that's why so much is made about the homeroom you get in each class, because that's the only place you get to sit during class for the whole year. It's the students that keep the room nice and tidy too, no janitors to clean up individual classrooms, just the bathrooms and hall. So if anyone were to find out about Maaku's extracurricular activities, we'd no exactly who it was that snitched. Yeah, he ain't saying poo poo, even if he knew or cared.
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Oct 19, 2017 16:48
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Arist posted:
She really should; heck, she should have been a party member with a Persona. Drag queens need more representation in games.
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Oct 25, 2017 18:53
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We’re all out of booze… A certain sloshed reporter drank it all.
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Regrettably, it doesn't look like our Tora knows as much about coding as he does about speechifying... more's the pity. But a large update today, to finish up the Kaneshiro saga, and to set up new bumps in the road, including a burgeoning conspiracy, finals approaching, and a more compenent spy than Makoto getting into our business... as well as to chec in on our old friends Starry eyed hid, Rockjer, Lush, and Foreign Barker. Full plate today, and full plate when we go to Mementos and knock out... what is your quest count, Arist? 10? 12? And of course, we have our new Confidant, the prosecutor and awful person Sae. I was kinda amused when we got some folks wondering if she is a sympathetic figure because she's interviewing us now, and hopefully we have an answer: nope. She might have moments approaching clarity regarding the upholding of law, but her clear ambition and outbursts toward Makoto (which as this thread has already identified, leap past outbursts due to stress and right into emotional abuse) is firmly in the "lovely adult" camp and even Makoto can see it: Arist posted:
Pictured: TFW you realize that the guardian who fed and raised you is not stressed or going through a rough patch, but is genuinely kind of a terrible person... Poor girl. 
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Oct 29, 2017 00:33
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Promotion… You’ve changed, Sis. But… I’ll be OK. ...I finally found a place where I belong.
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Kay Kessler posted:Those two aren't even in the top five most hateable confidant-related targets in the game. ? They're in my top five, and maybe I'm just forgetting some people already, but would you mind pointing those people out as well? I'm pretty sure we share at least one other target though... Yeah, the test music is pretty chill, and somehow I need to arrange a MIDI of Morgana saying "Ooh, we can do this!" for when I need encouragement. And privately... the fact that Sae is just as bad at interrogating people as her sister is at spying on them does warm me towards her a little. This game... you can't take it seriously.
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Nov 5, 2017 21:53
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Lord Koth posted:Well, either Maaku's wearing contacts occasionally, or just wears glasses to look intellectual and doesn't actually need them. Pick the option you like. Ding ding ding! Remember the description for his glasses in the inventory is "for looking smart," and also he wasn't wearing glasses in his flashback to before the game... he doesn't really need glasses and either his teammates have cottoned on to that, or were just being random. He just wears them to dilute his "delinquent" image- delinquents don't wear glasses, after all. Science, or something. I've always really liked the "I like the shade" line and Ryuji's follow up to it.
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Nov 8, 2017 20:31
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Deltasquid posted:My favorite part about the interlude is how Yusuke just rapid-fires these responses at the group within seconds and Ryuji's texts briefly pop in between Yusuke's walls of text. Whoever was in charge of the comic timing with regards to the text chats was on point. Oh yes, it's probably my favorite chat conversation in the game... you can just feel Makoto's  at the end.
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Nov 12, 2017 14:10
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But that's for Palaces. If the target is in Mementos (i.e not quite twisted enough for a Palace of their own), all you need is the name and then to find them.
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Nov 18, 2017 03:38
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Arist posted:
Oh, god it's happening again... urge to plant my fist in Ryuji's face... rising... Second goddamn time you've done this. These games like characters of this kind=- Junpei, Yosuke, and now our Ryuji- and each of them has approached a point of most punchability at some point of the game* and that time is very near for Ryuji, and it is a shame that actually having the opportunity to deal a crack upside the head to a deserving party has not really been implemented in these games. (Yosuke got punched true, but he asked for it first; not really the same.) But yeah... Sojirou's story is really something, huh? The story of Futaba is actually a really well done serious moment, the first really good one since Shiho's suicide attempt, and it's kind of a testament to how well its pathos comes through, even whist book-ended by wacky shenanigans, is a testament to the games power. Another testament is the paradigm shift that has occurred regarding Soujirou's character: think back to when the MC first met him, how bitter, sardonic and dismissive he sounded of the MC and his entire situation- how he did not even invite you into his home after taking care of you, and the calls he made to someone female painted him as a philanderer. And now, at last, we have the reason for that enforced distance ( prompted by our groups flagrantly illegal activities, I might add), and the bitter, jaded disciplinarian we were introduced to is revealed as hard working, compassionate, understanding, and probably the most moral and upright characters in the entire game. It's actually a well-done character reveal, and I take my hat off to the writing for pulling it off. So now that we know the circumstances of Futaba and why she approached us herself, it would seem that our next quest is more akin to the dungeon raids in P4 than our previous adventures, where instead of descending into the heart of an unrepentant, unaware criminal, we're going into a place where someone asked and invited us to deal with trauma they can't handle. It's a lot more palatable that forcibly rehabilitating someone, and makes one wish there had been more experimentation with the formula than what was there. But heck with all that, because Akechi's here, aw yeah. Arist posted:
Reason why Akechi is Best Boy 1: that dreamy smile that Arist has finally shown; doesn't it melt your heart? And his wink  *with the exception of Yosuke, who stayed there for most of it... it might be more appropriate to say that he had moments of non-punchability among... everything else. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Nov 20, 2017 |
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Nov 20, 2017 03:05
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I Ilways liked that cutscene- not THAT part, mind you, but the sheer scale of the desert is pretty cool. As the screenshots show, you can see the city on the far horizon... it's just got this vast gulf of desert between it and this persons palace, because there is that much of a remove of this person from the world. It's a striking image... and also, more than a little depressing, like a lot of things about this character. I've always kinda liked this dungeon, even though I freely admit that it probably looks the way it does to accommodate the personae you start getting around this level. But I can't really say why yet.
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Nov 24, 2017 20:58
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Glazius posted:Ah, instant death. I suppose it's a reason to focus down whatever can cast it. Yep. And the bad thing is, you don't have anything at this level that can block out both Hama and Mudo, making every fight kind of a crapshoot on whether or not you can take Anubis down or not before he gets either off- which can be difficult, given that he has no weaknesses, leaving only crits to knock him down. Though this is (partially) made up for by the voice they designated for him. You can take or leave the setting of this Palace, but I take it, as it is a place in which I can hear Great Anubis, Shepard and Guardian of the Dead, he who weighs the hearts and one of the oldest and most revered figures in the Egyptian pantheon, open a battle with our heroes by snarling "Come at me, clownshoes!" at you. If that isn't the most SMT thing, I dunno what is.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:45
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Gruckles posted:It owns how Futaba has a more persona 4 style awakening, but she and her shadow just sort out the stuff she's been ignoring instead of trying to kill eachother over it. It really is great, isn't it? You can take or leave this dungeon with its standard setting and samey corridors and repetitive gimmicks, but this scene makes the dungeon worth it because it delves into the mechanics of what a Shadow is. The fact that the Shadow, it its own way, is trying to help Futaba underlines that the Shadows really are the suppressed side of a person; the P4 cast were initially unable to accept what their Shadows were saying about them, causing the shadows to turn violent... but here we see Futaba finally solve tne mystery weighing her down, because the inclination to solve that mystery is what she was suppressing. Like the others, she feared the truth, but on her own realized the truth is not to be feared... it's such a low key revelation, and yet it's one of the most courageous, embracing, and dare I say revolutionary actions in this series yet.
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Dec 21, 2017 02:59
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Arist posted:
Yusuke might not be mi favorite, but he does definitely have his moments
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Dec 26, 2017 23:49
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Now, raise your hands higher! More… Give me more anguish…! Bring it to its upper limits! Like this!
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Arist posted:
As has been noted, Tora is the best, and one of the ways he's the best is that he has a functioning brain in his head. Much merriment has been had over Ryuji's inability to keep a secret, but let's face it- none of the guys are exactly spy material and it's amazing they've gotten this far without getting into any real trouble... so it is gratifying that you have characters within the story that tweak on to the thuddingly obvious. Such as, "why would this normal high school kid hang out with this failed politician trying to get his groove back, to the point of actually going to private dinner meetings with said politician?"... I would balk at calling this a smart game, exactly, but it's good to know that it isn't quite that dumb. Other characters who are the best: Foreign Barker and Drunken Souse, and it is my hope that after all this, the latter is able to get some help and get his life on track 
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Jan 10, 2018 17:10
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It’s as if my heart is being manipulated. Perhaps… If the Phantom Thieves truly do exist… then I’m sure they’re very much like you.
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Funky Valentine posted:
By the way: am I the only one a bit uncomfortable with the fact that Maaku just went ahead with cleaning and reorganizing a person's room without their knowledge or consent? I mean, it all led to a gag about her laser focus and Futaba herself seemed more or less OK with it, but... in my experience people like futaba tend to have private organizational schemes and get kinda antsy about people touching their things even without the massive trauma they've undergone- and with that trauma, I do wonder about the invasion of personal space being helpful in this instance. I guess when you've been in someone's cognition, messing around in their room feels like small potatoes.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:06
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Hey guys I just spent four hours cleaning Futaba's suspiciously sticky floor, with no help from my great and helpful friends. In less important news, Japan is saved.
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RedMagus posted:Seconded. This game does oscillate rapidly in between "disturbingly on the nose" and " ", doesn't it? I mean, its highs are quite high and I am generally on board with its messaging (heinous misogyny and homophobia notwithstanding), but all in all, it is probably the most uneven Persona game; P3 was solidly dependable in its existential angst, and P4, as has already pointed out, is probably the most grounded (although its liberal use of Idiot Plot and characterization which might charitably be described as wildly inconsistent damage my opinion of it in the long term). I might have to do some serious thinking as to whether I have a favorite among them, or if they're all such different experiences they can't be compared.But yes, we are in fact doing the "let's help this traumatized girl by dragging her into new experiences, and not by taking her to a therapist or letting her figure things out at her pace" thing, Lord help us. This will go swimmingly, I'm sure 
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Jan 23, 2018 04:25
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Arist posted:Is it just me or is it super hosed up that we’ve just decided to change the heart of our friend’s mother without their knowledge or consent and with no real risk of harm at play? I mean, it sucks for Hifumi but I’m not sure she wants us brainwashing her mom to get out of it. It isn't you. I mean, it's still sort of within our wheelhouse, as we are addressing a problem with few other options- Hifumi is being asked to take a fall, even without the weird sexuality being forced on her by her mom- BUT... she didn't ask the phantom thieves to do it, so yes, there is an element of corruption here that the game never really addresses to my satisfaction. Because no one really asked us to take care of the cat torturer or assaulter either... I wonder how great a leap it would be to try to stop crimes before they start. Or start commanding donations somehow (although that part was touched upon briefly by Majima, but only the once). Also, Iwai
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Jan 27, 2018 02:16
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Aww, and you didn't even get to the best part! (Note: it is not the best part, and if Arist wanted to skip it entirely and just say "a fun time was had by all" and move on, I would not blame him in the slightest.) At least the fireworks scene with Futaba is genuinely sweet, and we really need more scenes of that nature in this series, as far from the exploitation of young girls and girls in general as can be gotten. I also kinda like that bit with Akechi too, even if he was trying to garner sympathy in the most transparent way possible... but darn it, I still can't really talk about why, and won't be able to for some time. But I do still wanna kinda hug him and tousle his nice hair. e: Goddamn it, ought to know better than posting whist watching the giant bomb endurance run at the same time... too much persona. resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Feb 3, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 20:33
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Yeeeeep, there we go. The ogling of teenage girls in skimpy bathing suits is one thing, but it's just not a trip to the beach in Persona without a liberal dose of "Katsura Hashino is a homophobe," is it?  The thing with the lobsters, though, is pretty good, and I wish it were attached to a better scene so I could enjoy it.Morgana...
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Feb 6, 2018 00:31
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Yeah... high end sushi joints are really good, but be prepared to spend. I've never had that particular price tag, but the cost can balloon, especially with a large party. Of course, here it's probably another "little girl= big eater" joke. Arist posted:
 Morgana can be a pain, but it was obvious to me when playing that all of his antics and overbearing attitude are posturing to hide his insecurity, the equivalent of an animal fluffing up or spreading its wings to make itself seem bigger. He is absolutely crippled by his doubts about his place in this group and his own essential personhood, and he deals with that insecurity in the way a lot of young males do: in asserting dominance over the other males in any way he can, which is why he never misses a "Let's All Dunk On Ryuji" party, as he's the only one who responds to aggression (being insecure himself). But Mona can't really do that anymore, now that the party has a dedicated navigator, and having no outlet for his doubt, he does the other thing of holding in his emotions until they burst out in a torrent. It's a terrible thing to see, and it's all the more frustrating that the MC can't do anything about this clearly unhealthy dynamic because he isn't allowed to do anything- heck, isn't even allowed to notice, the way the games presented. There's a lot of things to juggle here, true, but it's a shame we can't at least talk to Morgana about if anything is wrong, or just buy him some nice sushi himself. Or alternatively, take Ryuji aside and remind him in as gentle a manner as you feel warranted that we'd both be dead without Morgana's help, and I think you're hurting his feelings so maybe ease off a little.
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Feb 9, 2018 20:56
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We’ll be counting on you, Futaba!
This feels way better than having some dumb cat guide us!
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How is it even possible to cheat in those games? Was there some kind of secret code, or gameshark for the PS2 I never knew about?
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Mar 6, 2018 16:55
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Yeah, seeing the treatment of the other women in this game, I'm... not too broken up about not getting more Shiho.
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Mar 14, 2018 19:50
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So we have, in fact, forgotten all about the beach outing, and the pains took there (as they have been since P3) to get all the fetishization of girls in swimsuits that they can, and then some? And yes, I suppose it is better now that we don't have Yosuke to open his big, stupid mouth (or for the protagonist to agree with him, for some ungodly reason), or that the girls don't act uncharacteristically awful in a scene because men are like this but women are like this, dontcha know, or that we don't have some fat girl to mock for being fat*... but this is still a game in which Ohya deflects suspicion against her by pretending to go out with a teenager, a thing which goes completely unremarked upon or deconstructed by the game. That there are so many plots dedicated to some of the terrible things that happen to women and girls in society is fine, but it clashes when the story uses a lot of tropes which have their origins in sexist thought. People have been talking about such moments as they come up, but then seem to lose the thread, but I havent forgotten such moments and nor do I wish to. We can and should do better than we have done, for women and for other minorities. So fine: yes, I admit that this game is in some ways better than the other persona games and for a lot of other games. And I freely admit that a lot of this griping is just me being a Grumpy Old (Asexual) Man muttering about the drat kids on his lawn and his own personal gripes... but surely, it would be nicer if we stopped objectifying women, right? And stopped commenting on what people of both genders wear and how they wear it when they go out- it's a free country, and I have better things to do with my time than to comment about how other people use their freedom of expression. And speaking of freedom, I wish the gun-havers would kindly shut up about their second amendment rights, or at least stopped shooting black people and kids. If you want to give someone guns, why not to sex workers? Then they could overthrow their exploitative pimps, form a union, and start demanding a 15 dollar minimum wage. Which is something we all need. As well as universal health care. And stop globally warming the planet. And sto raping women and children you freaks. And GET OFF MY GODDAMNED LAWN! *Who really should have been in the party/ a lot more involved than she was. I mean, she wasn't nice, but she knew what she wanted and had a degree of awareness and body acceptance that I found refreshing, and a lot more interesting and memorable than short, thin unblemished girl number umpteen. (Or maybe I just remember her fondly as her appearances corresponded to Yosuke eating poo poo, but my opinion stands.)
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Mar 16, 2018 15:51
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Oh dear, did I worry people again? I didn't really mean that to be taken wholly seriously; I'm personally doing quite well, and am much happier and healthier than I was, say, a year previous. Things like that whole spiel just sort of happen on days when I'm the only one at work, am extremely bored, and In A Mood. Good thing this thread isn't about Monster Hunter World, or I'd be yelling about the game being a celebration of colonialism and the promotion of trophy hunting, and how if I want to play a game about savaging a beautiful critter just minding his own business and wear its guts for garters, I should at least be made to feel a little bad about it, as in Shadow of the Colossus. ...Not for nothing did I get my av, is what I'm saying.
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Mar 16, 2018 17:50
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Closed-Down Pizza Parlor posted:Have you considered stepping outside At work, remember? Can't well serve the professors, mind the desk, and police the shelves whilst taking in the sun, unfortunately... still a few hours to go. Tell you what, though- I'm sure not bored anymore! (Seriously, SA, you make the day bright, I would never have come so far without you. )HIJK posted:1) Yosuke is funny and cute and cool and my boyfriend and I like him and yea he's an idiot but he listened to me when I set him straight close to the end game of P4 so actually he's Good (tm) and I'll fistfight anyone who wants to argue with me Between this and the points raised in the posts previous... I believe it is time for me, to use 
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Mar 16, 2018 20:17
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GeneX posted:Please stop posting I have been glomped by the great spirit of Trotsky, and my mind burns with the desire to smash capitalism and to baptize all people everywhere with liberty and equality using the blood of billionaires, white nationalists, and MRAs... so that may prove difficult. But if you grant me your power by typing "stay safe, socialism ghost" and posting it in this thread, He will leave my body and be free to roam the earth once more, as Joe Hill does. Solidarity to women, to minorities, and to the working class! Solidarity forever! ... OK, seriously now: what is so wrong about the fact that I'm raising these questions about the treatment of the female characters in this video game? The video game itself, through the plot, has raised the issues of blackmail, bullying, and sexual abuse, and has painted all of these as wrong, so is it not appropriate to take this game and its creators to task and ask them to account for the double standard of calling out these evils whist indulging in humor and cliches borne of the same sexism that leads to sexual abuse? Yes, this is a created environment with characters not meant to be parallels or representations of real people and these events can't really be comparable to real life... but so what? The subtext that leads to those greater evils is still here and present, as I am pleased to see at least some posters have noticed, so why not talk about them? Because it's a game you use for escapism, and you'd rather not talk about it? Fair enough, but I need some escapism myself, and given that the awful things men have done to women are one of the things I want to escape from sometimes, I tend to notice when such sexism is right in front of my face- and believe it or not, it isn't always, in any kind of video game. Is it because you can't consider a game fun if you think about it too much? I guess I can see that, but discussing a game and what it says, in picking apart the symbology and the greater meaning behind the imagery and the action, both intended and accidental- that's fun for me. That's how I enjoy games, and movies and books- all of the ways a culture takes its mind off of work and of life, and how that informs the identity of that culture. Isn't that fun to talk about sometimes? Or am I just a weirdo? (Don't bother answering that one, we all already know.) I'd also go into HIJK's use of the word "Westerners" and wonder how that matters at all in critiquing something, but it seems it's quitting time, so I gotta catch the metro. Peace!
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Mar 16, 2018 22:07
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You know... I do see where they were going with this sequence. While the conflict between Ryuji and Morgana hasn't really been built up to my satisfaction (again, I see where they're going- two people who are similar in terms of values and essential outlooks on the world who should be friends, but aren't due to clashing personalities and personal faults, see literally any "buddy cop" movie- but this translates in the game into them being pissy at each other and not really coming to any agreement, even in secret, and it doesn't really work), Morgana's doubts and insecurities... mostly have been? I mean, it's been well established by this point that he's a pompous tit who doesn't really talk about his emotions, because that would mean talking about how insecure and scared he is about being wrong, about being left out, about being neither human nor cat but... other. So yes, I can see why he'd do this, at this point too- it's obvious he's just using the current tiff as an excuse for leaving a group he has come to believe would kick him out soon anyway, because he doesn't really believe that he belongs there anymore, if he ever really did. And I mean, it's not like that plot-line doesn't work on its own merits- isn't there a plot-line like this in Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol 2? But this iteration is doomed at the outset because we already feel detached from this entire conflict... and a lot of the reason why is found in this comment here:Really Pants posted:Why are any of these people friends again? The biggest problem I have with the Persona series is not really the plotlines or the characters, but the interaction between these characters, or more appropriately the lack thereof. In all 3 (main) games, you have disparate individuals who are drawn together by the weird poo poo going on and become fast friends by the end of the game, but it seems I'm left with a question every time: when did that happen, exactly? There's a lot of fighting Shadows and a lot of "dramatic" moments of tragedy and horror, and yes, camaraderie can be fostered by witnessing such events together, but what about the slow moments in between them? You know, just talking, finding common ground through discussion, engaging in leisure activities, sharing meals, just calling up to ask questions, figuring out boundaries and apologizing for mis-stepping, doing nice things for each other- all of the things that real life friendships are actually based on... where are they? Usually these games just have one such event, usually some kind of celebration, which is generally undercut by the plot or some writers ungodly attempt at humor, so it's like it never actually happens at all. P3 had most of the characters in a common room, usually sitting by themselves and doing, and P5 doesn't even have that: they just talk at each other over their phone, mostly. It seems that any sort of friendly interaction that happens at all is between the MC and the characters individually, through the social links, with sometimes the confidants in question asking "Hey, wanna hang out?" in return, but only to you, and never actually to each other, it seems, except in passing. It's... really very cold, and odd, and it'd be one thing if the game acknowledged it or used it to emphasize a point, but we are told that no, really, these people do like each other and would die for each other in the end. Yes, Yosuke might be a total douchenozzle that constantly objectifies and teases the women in our party, and once signed them up for a beauty pageant without their knowledge or consent and constantly needles another male party member about his issues for "teh lolz," but he's a good bro who would die for you, honest. And it's not like there are ways to get around concerns of party gestalt, either: consider the Tales of... series, who have an entire system dedicated to putting the plot mostly aside and focusing solely on character interaction between party members through skits. I mean, god knows those games are mostly poorly written, cliche-riddled messes too, but I am much more inclined to believe that those teams actually have relationships with each other by the end.
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Mar 22, 2018 15:49
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That is indeed a hat I wish you could find and wear in-game. (Or, y'know, in real life.) Re: Shinya and "swearing"- I suspect this is another cultural thing that is difficult to translate within the restrictions imposed by the medium. Less of a use of specific words, and more of an attitude thing, I mean... due to the construction of the language, Japanese doesn't really ascribe the same cultural weight to specific words that English does, being a more contextual language. That's not to say that Japanese doesn't have invectives- it does, and if you've literally ever seen an anime in your life, you know exactly what they are- and Shinya may or may not have been using them... but that really doesn't matter, because what the adults were referring to was his tone. And perhaps, even the form of Japanese being used, because there's more than one; it's a sort of spectrum between the informality that societal equals use for each other (containing little to no deference) to... well, the kind of ultra-formality you don't really hear anymore outside of a pop-culture portrayal of olden times, how nobles supposedly talked to each other. This is all a long winded introduction to say: if you're a young person in Japan, you don't talk to an older person the way Shinya talked to Maaku this update. At all. Not if you don't want to cause trouble. It's only forgivable in this instance because Maaku is an eat-poo poo teenager, pretty much the lowest rung on Japanese society as far as most adults are concerned, and they both are in an arcade, a place for informality. If he had been anywhere else, and talking to any one else not his age or slightly older/younger... yeah, there would be trouble. There would be Words, parents would probably be contacted and made to explain their son's behavior/apologize for it, etc. Shinya's age might be a factor too, as he's still pretty young... but given that people are commentating so much on his behavior in the background (and that Shinya apologized himself), I think it's safe to say that he is approaching the age where the "precociousness of youth" is no longer a sufficient excuse for poor behavior. Japanese is very stratified and restrictive when it comes to hierarchy and what you're supposed to do in most if not all situations, and the culture does reflect that. This is sort of the same thing with Ryuji's title of "Vulgar Boy" before we knew his name at the beginning- he's not vulgar because he slouches and says the word "poo poo" occasionally, he's vulgar because he immediately does all of the things you're not supposed to do when you first meet somebody- asking accusatory questions without so much as a howdeedoo, whilst immediately violating personal space to boot; not asking Maaku his name or offering his own; spouting off facts and suppositions without even a token effort to see if Maaku is following along; being very pushy- you get the idea. It's not very forgiving, no, and skewed unfavorably towards older folks... which dovetails nicely into your comments about the old people and what they have to say about current events. And yeah: the relationship between the young and the old, the very palpable tension between the two in Japanese society, what, if anything, each group "owes" the other, and what all of this says about Japan and the struggles it faces, is... something that comes up in Japanese media, yes. Multiple times.
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Apr 2, 2018 21:08
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Robindaybird posted:I feel like this is the biggest flaw with the S. Link and similar mechanics in a lot of video games (NWN2's influence system comes to mind especially with Qara), is with some exceptions, you're pretty much suppose to pat their rear end even if they're shady, being stupid, or it's outright wrong or else you're The Bad Guy. Some of it is programming limitations, but it can be frustrating to not go 'hey, stop doing the thing it's creepy' and having it actually matter. While this is all true... one of the things I should mention at this juncture is that Mishima is not actually one of the links your talking about, as increasing his Link is not dependent on your responses to him in conversation. The thing that increases moon levels is fulfilling the quests in Mementos, that's it; just do that and the level will increase every time you talk to him. And I really like that- while I don't know if I would go so far as to say that anyone planned it to this degree, his link not being dependent on your responses really fits nicely with Mishima and his story. One, it paints him favorably, because it shows that the thing he really cares about is helping people, above how you treat him, and two... well, it allows you to actually speak your mind without fear of reprisal. Because here's thine thing: I really like Mishima and his link, but... you guys aren't wrong in what you've said about him. He is boring, he is annoying, he is unhealthily obsessed with all of this, and frightfully clingy- yes he's been hurt by his experiences, but that doesn't change that for most of his link, he's... really not all that much fun to be around. (Also, I personally enjoy that we're getting to this part of his Link now, at a part when we're experiencing similar weirdness with everyone wanting to deal with some fast-food magnate out of the blue, and nobody on our team really questioning this; good parallel, that.) But as other people have said, it makes sense that he feels this way, and it fits extremely well with his assigned arcana: the Moon is the card of doubt and deception, and is thought to actually be the card the most parallels the shadow self as Jung imagined it. One of the interpretations of it in a reading is how the way forward in life can be obscured by our feelings, how our fears and anxieties can twist and warp our vision of ourselves and our priorities. Mishima is, at heart, a good kid who means well, but his fear that his might be a nothing, a "zero," just as his bullies have said, is corrupting those good intentions, turning a genuine desire to help into a desire for vindication, a desire to be known and rewarded, praised as a hero. The way this is presented, to me, actually strikes the balance between being somewhat sad to watch, and also, being kinda pathetic as well.
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Apr 5, 2018 18:30
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