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tqilamknbrd posted:Fair enough, thanks all. No, Sacred cat is a fair bit better, although this is for draft not sealed. Having lifelink is huge, but it won't go in every deck. It wants to be in either a going wide lots of creatures aggressive deck with pump your team spells, or a slower deck looking to get to the late game and willing to have a card that will gain some life, maybe hold off a creature or two and then chump twice. Even if you have Regal Caracal it wouldn't meaningfully change my opinion on Sacred Cat, you aren't likely to have them in play together.
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Apr 20, 2017 02:36
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I didn't draft/whatever yet because I haven't ever played live, just MTGO, but I'm out of state at a restaurant while I visit family and went out to get breakfast alone, and was reading this thread and I can hear the kitchen staff loudly talking about what they did last night and I heard the word cartouche like 5 times. Welp that's my story hope you enjoyed it .
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Apr 23, 2017 16:51
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Lol at banning a card in legacy for being too omnipresent that isn't Brainstorm.
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Apr 23, 2017 20:15
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Someone with photoshop skills replace Sensei's Top in that sign with Felidar Guardian from the tweeted picture and then copy it 50 times to block out most of the WOTC building for me. TIA.
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Apr 24, 2017 20:16
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80s James Hetfield posted:Why in the gently caress is Thorn of the Black Rose a $12.00 card on MODO. Palace Sentinels $4.60?! gently caress me I thought this was some worthless crap card and sold it for like .05 cents to some bot like five days ago.
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Apr 25, 2017 19:06
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https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/pro-tour-copycat/ Ehh this about sums up why Copycat sucks and should have been banned.
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Apr 26, 2017 15:26
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My favorite thing about MTGO is the tournament practice room. I went there to test Saheeli/Marvel after not liking Mardu anymore and it was clearly just casual people not interested in playing tournaments ever. In 20 matches I played 1 Mardu and 19 BW jank and all in energy aggro lists. When I finally got in the queue, guess what I played? All Saheeli and Mardu, no exceptions.
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Apr 26, 2017 22:47
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Sampatrick posted:I think it's extremely obvious that what happened is that SCG/CFB/whoever else called and told them that they need to fix Standard because attendance is falling faster than it did during CawCaw standard. Then WotC looked at the public outcry, shrugged, and decided to ban it. Not banning it at first was pretty dumb, but not banning it until five weeks from now would have been extremely dumb. This new standard cannot be as bad as what we just had or competitive Magic could take a hit that it won't recover from for years. As it stands, it might not recover from the last couple seasons being so loving awful. I can't recall people ever being this pessimistic about Standard being a fun format. People might say a current format is poo poo, but normally people still think a new format might be fun and exciting. Nobody was excited for this format. Not even the prospect of a Cycling control deck made people excited for this format. So WotC did what they had to do in order to hopefully get people interested in playing Standard. I think this is the least bad thing they could have done after not banning on Monday (even if Saheeli was the better ban). They have always banned things in a reactionary manner, sometimes they get it right but mostly they're wrong. They didn't even get the Caw standard bans right, they only should have banned Stonefirge Mystic, the card somehow Boros Aggro and Caw blade shared, but they banned Jace too because people hated it, it was expensive because it saw play in other formats and represented the dreaded 'pay to win' aspect of magic people complaint about. Sure it was pushed and overpowered, but so is virtually every eternal playable. A set later Snapcaster, an even more broken card, would get a pass because it was only rare, and thus affordable. I mean thank god they banned cat, card needed to go, but they banned it due to people being upset instead of because it was a format warping piece of poo poo that was ruining standard.
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Apr 27, 2017 14:35
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Sampatrick posted:They banned Jace because Jace was the best card in that standard. Caw-Go was arguably the best deck even before Stoneforge was around. The other top tier decks were things like URx Twin featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, RUG Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UW Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, UB Control featuring Jace the Mind Sculptor, and then RDW and Valakut. Jace was more prevalent in that format than SFM. You are way off and the best deck after cawblade was Valakut by a mile in that format or twin if you prefer, definitely not Rug, which wasn't a control deck anyway. Jace was not more prevalent than SFM and also not better than it, at the time it was banned. Snapcaster was and is better than Jace in a format with preordain, although we never saw them together, and thragtusk was not the dominant card, it was snap, Geist and Resto, nobody was resolving swags once that deck broke out. Snap remains better in Legacy and modern than Jace, and SFM was better than both in standard and would be in Modern too. All the multi colored non SFM Jace decks were only a thing before Sword of feast and famine broke out and changed that format forever.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:52
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TheChirurgeon posted:I didn't say it was bad--I very much enjoyed my Ghost Dad deck. I was just pointing out that Snapcaster wasn't a degenerate or format-defining card in standard at the time, so complaining about it being on the level of JTMS or Cawblade is, to me, crazypants It absolutely was in the deck that played 4, the UW Flash deck, and it was insanely dominant and the best deck in the format by a ridiculous margin.
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Apr 27, 2017 15:55
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TheChirurgeon posted:Hmmm nope I was talking about a completely different standard than this, you know, the one that had Mana Leak, 1 and 0 mana cantrips where Snappy was insane like he is in older formats. They rotated out Mana Leak and pretty much all of the good cheap spells specifically because of how good Snapcaster was, and it was STILL great. But yeah this clearly is not the format or deck I was talking about.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:22
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My point, now somewhat lost, was that they don't ban cards based solely on power level or prevalence in a format. They ban because they are unpopular. Cards like Bloodbraid elf never got banned because they weren't chase mythic so people didn't care as much, if it had been 70 dollars per elf it wouldn't have made it out of Block Constructed.
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Apr 27, 2017 16:47
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Sampatrick posted:I mean, you're right but I think you're missing the point. Obviously the ban hammer will only fall when people are dissatisfied with Standard. If the format is just Mardu mirrors all day but people love it and FNMs are booming, WotC won't do poo poo. This is kinda obvious. WotC only changes things when people are unsatisfied. Why would they change things if people are happy? Well, yes, but I think this banning, and the previous standard banning, and the one before that, are just appeasement. They aren't testing or worrying about the format or collecting data, they are just making sure they keep certain groups happy and don't get fired and aren't really planning or thinking ahead. The explanations are all theatre and there is no philosophy that is guiding them, which is just embarrassing. I mean they clearly got it right banning the stupid cat combo, but the way it happens reveals incompetence or at the very least a lack of a clear plan at the highest levels.
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Apr 27, 2017 17:45
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Tales of Woe posted:JTMS also fits into the same category as Emrakul the Promised End where on top of being powerful it's a card that lets the opponent perform the MTG equivalent of torture on you before it kills you, and you can't just scoop because your opponent might use the fateseal or the Emrakul turn wrong and leave you with outs. These cards are way less fun to play against than other finishers despite achieving the same ends. I mean Jace uptick was definitely unpleasant but I think not that different than any slow control deck win con. Being drownyarded out or towered out is all pretty much the same, the format had fetchlands fateseal wasn't even a real lock. People just hated the card because when your deck cost 80 bucks and a JTMS was 100 it felt unfair. It's one of the most popular cards in other format with a ton of people begging for it to be unbanned, right or wrong. Emrakul also wasn't slow torture, it was actually very quick, it's just being mindslavered is the actual ultimate feel bad in magic that most competitive players will scoop rather than go through it unless their deck is designed to be immune lack Lantern control or something similar. It's an insanely dumb ability to put on a to cast trigger on a card that's pushed to see a lot of play.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:02
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Smashing Link posted:Let's not forget Rishadan Port for a long run of inducing frustarted semi-helplessness in opponents before you get around to killing them. I always think of opposition as the ultimate no fun torture card but magic has had plenty of them. Some of them like Blood Moon are actually fine and help balance a format. I think Modern will always be a better format than Legacy as long as Wasteland is still a card, and a huge number of games just don't happen due to it.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:32
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mcmagic posted:Yeah. Blood Moon is completely obnoxious and much more of a feel bad in legacy than Wasteland. People just sort of have accepted getting wasted out of games it doesn't make for a good format and Blood Moon isn't anywhere near as prevalent.
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Apr 27, 2017 18:49
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DangerDongs posted:That Sultai Delirium/control deck looked cool at least for the 30 seconds of air time it got after the Mardu / GB matchup for the 3rd time. Any list for this I can find? I'm looking for anything that isn't U/R as I played it some last season and its a huge chore, especially the mirror, and not even great vs Mardu
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Apr 29, 2017 21:05
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Rinkles posted:The new-new-rotation makes this set feel like a small one. This will continue to happen every other block. Tales of Woe posted:it was like that in the past with spring large sets and they still managed to impact the format significantly e.g. Dragons of Tarkir and Rise of the Eldrazi both added multiple top tier decks. Those didn't particularly feel like small sets to me. A lot of the problem is cards not being powerful outside of their block synergies. Delirium and Energy are great examples, you need a critical mass to make them effective or solid enablers. Meanwhile a deck like Mardu works because it is just a good stuff deck, it'll take Cast Out and possibly a planeswalker and discard the rest. The design on some of these sets for constructed was terrible, and the only new 'archetype' is TorrentialGearhulk.dec because it only cares about card type. They also made the majority of the Aftermath cards well short of constructed playable.
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Apr 29, 2017 23:36
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DangerDongs posted:Cut // Ribbons in Mardu is wrecking G/B I mean two mana flame slash isn't good enough because it is awful vs Mardu, and in general, but I guess anything can happen with the weird way in which they are building sets now. I think that card is extremely fringe and not going to see much play.
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Apr 30, 2017 01:06
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The stupid Smuggler's Copter ban fucks up this entire standard. That card would have enabled some sweet decks, but now the only way to enable the new Roar of the Wurm is with trash like Noose Constrictor, and it isn't good enough on its face. I mean the card was pushed too hard but now there's a critical lack of enablers for various decks. It's a great limited environment but I think they whiffed hard in constructed with this set compared to Kaladesh.
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May 1, 2017 00:41
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PJOmega posted:I don't know which one makes for a worse draft environment, Baneslayer or Glorybringer. Outside of Glorybringer I loving love drafting this set. I'm so torn because it's a huge boon not having it at mythic, but it is a complete blowout at 5 mana that gives you immediate value and then runs away with the game if they can't answer it.  I'm currently 1-0 with this, winning the Drake Haven mirror. This is the sweetest deck I've drafted in a long time. I first picked Drake Haven, and got passed Sandwurm Convergence P3P1 after picking Cast Out P1P2.
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May 4, 2017 10:57
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Sickening posted:Zombies just got so much out of the new set that makes the deck a very good midrange deck. There is a very small chance it could become tier 1, but most likely a very solid 1.5/2 deck that people will enjoy in standard. I mean it isn't terrible but at the end of the day its just idiot creatures and a few removal spells. 2 mana hand disruption doesn't cut it for an aggressive deck. It still is missing a good threat like Gravecrawler or Bloodghast to really put it into contention. Relentless dead just doesn't impress me. Hilarious how it has spiked to a crazy price already.
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May 6, 2017 01:49
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Sickening posted:If the creatures didn't draw cards, produce tokens, reanimate, and have evasion you would be correct. It's more that the cost of all those things is too high. 3 mana and 1 or less card in hand is a lot different than 1 mana and a zombie. Tapping three zombies to draw a card rather than attack seems like a weird anti-synergy. The menace is probably the best thing it has going for it, but card for card and synergy wise it feels so much worse than GB to me.
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May 6, 2017 18:17
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This is a weird set in that White is absurdly deep at common and green unusually shallow. A big problem is the two drop green exert creature is the worst in the cycle. They don't really get an above the curve creature at common until their 5 drop, and the naga mana dork ramp decks haven't impressed me.
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May 7, 2017 19:53
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Angry Grimace posted:Topdeck Matters cards that provide their own value or let you random-chance dig for value are stupid. It's like Cascade - you shouldn't get a 3/2 haste plus anything else you happen to topdeck. For free. Aetherworks counts among these stupid mechanics because the cost to use it is ridiculously low (you either hit Ulamog or a way to use Marvel more). If Aetherworks had like, any meaningful restrictions on using it (letting you cast literally any spell for six energy when half your deck probably gives you energy) I guess I could see it being okay, but as-is its horribly unbalanced. The restriction is you have to fill your deck with cards that give you energy, and have said energy, and the marvel. This is slightly different than BBE, where the restriction is fill your deck with cards. Running the full 4 Ulamog, your chances of hitting one off a spin, even if you haven't drawn any, are lower than 50 percent. That also required you drew and activated Marvel. I personally like the deck but it's about as fair as it could possibly be.
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May 7, 2017 22:50
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Hellsau posted:Calling Aetherworks Marvel fair is insane. Turn 4 Ulamog is not fair. That's the point, that's why people are willing to deal with the setup cost and accept the times that Marvel misses. When you spike a 10 mana creature on turn four, and then keep the Marvel around to do it again if they answer the Eldrazi, it doesn't feel like you're playing the same game as your opponent. It's silly to call Marvel fair because you have to put a bunch of weird or bad cards in your deck and then draw the right distribution of cards. If that's the case, Legacy Storm is a fair deck - you have to put a bunch of card-disadvantageous cards into your deck like Dark Ritual and Lotus Petal, plus bad cards like Lion's Eye Diamond and Ad Nauseum, and then you need to draw Ad Nauseum and the mana to cast it. Yeah I mean if it was anything remotely like ANT and had fast mana and tutors and card selection and discard it probably would be insane. It has none of those things, wtf are you even talking about. PJOmega posted:Are you cross posting from mtgsalvation? You've gotta be a gimmick poster given your track record. I'm not a gimmick poster, maybe you just know a lot less about magic than you think you do? The deck isn't some oppressive force in the metagame like Saheeli, and yet people in this thread are comparing it to BBE of all things.
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May 8, 2017 00:36
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suicidesteve posted:It doesn't need to be oppressive to be terrible gameplay. See also: most of modern. OK cool, you don't like the spin it and win it gameplay, that's fine, nowhere did I say it was good gameplay, I was discussing the deckbuilding, activation cost and fizzle rate as balancing factors, not whether or not it was some highly interactive deck that's great to play and watch. The deck is basically this standard format's version of a ramp deck, except a bit higher variance then is normal for that kind of deck.
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May 8, 2017 00:49
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DangerDongs posted:You make it sound like running Attune with Aether, Rogue Refiner, Harnessed Lightning, and Whirler Virtuoso is such a slog. The only card that deck runs that is weak is the puzzleknot, but even that nets 6 life and equals an other spin. Black has several answers, including Transgress the mind, and a number of maindeck answers are seeing play, namely Cast out and Commit //Memory. I also had to look up what I said about Cut // Ribbons "I mean two mana flame slash isn't good enough because it is awful vs Mardu, and in general, but I guess anything can happen with the weird way in which they are building sets now. I think that card is extremely fringe and not going to see much play." Yeah that's still the case, it is a 1 of in some Mardu lists because it doesn't hit Heart and is also bad vs Avacyn and planeswalkers. Who knows maybe it becomes a staple and I'm wrong but I think the front half of the card is pretty bad for constructed and the back half restricts it further.
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May 8, 2017 04:56
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Don't talk about magic cards in the magic thread when they are being discussed. I got it.
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May 8, 2017 06:57
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I haven't been able to watch any of it, are the Top 8 decks known already? I'm guessing it was a fairly even split of Marvel/Mardu/Zombies, did UR, GB or the weird UW spirit list make an impact at all? I also tested a bunch of Marvel builds and the Temur Marvel builds and the version with 2 Chandra 2 Bounty of the Luxa was my favorite. Any Cut // Ribbons being played? e: It's only for PC but the Streamlink Twitch GUI app is great if you hate Twitch and its lousy interface and how awful it is in a broswer. It will play twitch through a VLC window.
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May 14, 2017 00:42
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Mardu is still putting up 5-0s on MTGO. I don't think it's bad, just likely what wasn't played by the top teams. I don't think there is an obvious best deck which is good, the cat ban gave a pretty wide open format.
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May 14, 2017 03:39
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In my experience, Gearhulk decks can't always quickly close out the game before you hard cast the Ulamog, assuming they keep you off Marvel. U/R is great vs GB and Mardu, but only medium vs Marvel, and really struggles vs all flavors of zombie due to their fast clock and recursive threats. Chandra, Flamecaller as a 4 of is spicy AF, good for whoever brewed that one up. It just had a huge spike on MTGO if anyone still has their copies, sell em before anyone is certain how good they are while they're in demand. e: Looks like the only G/B player and two of the Marvel players were the only 6-0 players in draft to make the top 8, Yukuhiro, Froehlich and Tobiasch. The number one seed has 4 Wayward Servant and 0 Relentless Dead, which doesn't surprise me one bit. Also 0 of the Dispossess/Lost Legacy nonsense and the full 4 Transgress, which again doesn't surprise me. All the threat light Marvel decks board into Tireless Tracker anyway, if a card like that is ever good, it's against a real combo deck like New Perspectives. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 04:29 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 04:03
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Hellsau posted:This top 8 is a thousand times better than it would have been if Cat wasn't banned, and it's much better than anything during Aether Revolt standard. They've gotta stop printing stuff like Company and Marvel that uses variance as a balancing mechanic, though. CoCo was, or perhaps even is, simply too good given its performance in standard and modern. Marvel, on the other hand, might just be too tilting. The Marvel player remembers every time they hit Servant of the Conduit when Ulamog would have won, and the Marvel opponent only remembers them hitting Ulamog every drat time.
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May 14, 2017 05:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnk7xYTvUG0 I just want to point out that in the first two minutes (all I watched) of his SAFETY NETS WILL MAKE YOU WEAK video, Woo, while walking on a resort beach, talks pointedly about the spoiled sons of Genghis Khan, who squandered his empire and were 'soft'. I feel like that criticism holds a lot more weight from the successful son of a conqueror like Alexander the Great, instead of the man playing pretend wizard that looks like he's doing Gandalf cosplay. I'm not sure if I'm more surprised he's an anti semite, or that he's even particularly good at limited. I thought he was known for constructed deck brewing.
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May 14, 2017 09:06
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ThePeavstenator posted:Seriously, gently caress Marvel and gently caress WotC for thinking that grindy value bullshit is preferable to a real control deck existing. U/R could certainly emerge as the fourth deck in the format, it wouldn't surprise me one bit. I think with the rise of zombies Jeskai control might be a thing, with Magma Spray, Cast Out and Fumigate, radiant flames, etc.
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May 14, 2017 22:07
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Hellsau posted:This deck went 8-1-1 and 7-3 and is 105 tickets online, so it'll probably be getting a poo poo ton of results on MTGO in the coming weeks: Just the variations within Temur Marvel decks are absurd, the temur energy shell is definitely the most diverse in terms of playable cards in standard, and somewhere in there, or splashing white, is the best deck, if anyone can figure it out. Cat Combo would have ground every deck in this format to dust. That deck has a plan B good enough to 5-0. I don't think I'll play zombies anytime soon because the cards all spiked and I took an extended break from MTGO until Kaladesh so I don't have a lot of the deck, but I like this standard format with Cat gone, I think it has a reasonably competitive deck for just about any type of player, and some good budget options. Star Man posted:I'd love to get into zombies but I'm not dropping $80 on a playset of cards that's going to dive in six months. I'm also really hesitant to pay $35 for Liliana, the Last Hope while she's still in Standard. Of all the cards in standard right now, Liliana is the one I'm most sure is going to steadily tick up in value post rotation. Both 3 mana Lilianas are insane and are going to be modern staples for the foreseeable future. Marketing New Brain fucked around with this message at 23:08 on May 14, 2017 |
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May 14, 2017 23:02
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DangerDongs posted:I've been playing control and midrange for about 5 months now and want to play something aggro for Game Day, so I decided on Mardu. Veteran Motorist beating down vs Marvel and smoothing out your draws is definitely what I would be playing. The only creatures Ballista picks off in zombies are 1 mana, and that matchup is too fast to get a big ballista out. The only deck that wants it at this point is a G/B deck that can really abuse the counters. It was also an easy way to flip Avacyn, so it is possible that it still has a place (I was playing Mardu before that was a deck) but honestly I doubt it. For the record, the last 3 Mardu vehicles decks to 5-0 MTGO are playing 4 Veteran Motorist maindeck and 0 Ballista in the 75, with 2 Avacyn (down from 3 for a lot of builds).
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May 15, 2017 02:14
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DangerDongs posted:Thanks. I think its one or two Oath of Liliana and that's it, mostly as a way to get value 2/2's to protect your planeswalker. I think you still want minimum 2 fumigate in the sideboard, and the new hot tech is 2 fatal push and 2 Declaration in Stone maindeck, because it deals with a resolved Ulamog and exiles a bunch of annoying zombies threats, can hit multiple threats at once, and is insane vs their tokens. I'd probably play a third declaration in the board, I think it will be that good. As to which planeswalkers you play for the sideboard plan, I think 2 Nahiri 1 Chandra, since she's easier to cast and being able to exile instead of deal 4 damage is a huge upside. The ability to hit enchantments and sometimes marvel is just a bonus. The Mardu deck since Amonkhet has had amazing mana, so I wouldn't worry about spires being a little worse. You also get to play 24 lands with multiple Canyon Slough to fix and prevent flood. Having played Marvel, I can tell you, Dispossess it not the way to go, pack 2-3 transgress, and hope to fire one off turn 3 if you can. They're way better because on later turns they hit Tireless Trackers and planeswalkers and strip the turn 8 Ulamog that was getting cast next turn.
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May 15, 2017 04:10
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DangerDongs posted:I might try 3 push 1 Declaration. Those are the right moves in the sideboard, although vs Marvel I liked to keep in all the aggressive creatures, and just drop the fatal pushes for transgress and an anguished unmaking. Transgress is great vs them no matter what SB plan they go with as all their impact cards are 3+ mana. Its the toughest match to sideboard because it has so many builds, but fatal push is awful vs Marvel, and Transgress is great. I personally never boarded out my 1 toughness guys except vs GB because of their Ballista but the deck has a ton of play to it, I don't think there's any real consensus. I think vs Zombies I'd cut toolcraft even on the play because it can't block and any random 2/2 zombie can blank it. In all the time I played the deck the only thing I learned and know for sure is never cut Thraben Inspector, in any matchup. I also decided to play the Jund Gods list that went 8-1 or something at the PT after watching CalebD stream it to 5-0. I made very minor tweaks but the deck feels great if zombies is a big part of the meta.
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May 15, 2017 07:31
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Marvel won't need a ban, it is as successful as it has ever been and it still isn't dominating and people have already adjusted. Today's 5-0 decks have 1 Marvel, 2 Mardu, 2 UR control and 4 zombie decks. There still isn't even a consensus on the best Marvel or Zombie build, but the deck isn't exactly going to get strengthened by new sets since the core mechanic is limited to Kaladesh.
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May 16, 2017 02:39
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