|
Today's update brought to you by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4xI1gua748 TheMcD posted:Wait, Paco has 8 Charisma? gently caress me. My elf mage with a major in Charisma had 8 Charisma after finishing the second to last part of the game! And Paco doesn't have any cool at all - he manages to keep the facade up for about a minute before it crumbles like a house of cards. Yeah the fact that he had 12 Charisma when 9 is the cap for humans was the first sign that something was maybe a little off in my original save.  Iretep posted:The real reason to take quickness over str when you want the 3rd weapon slot is quickness increases dodge while str raises nothing useful besides damage. Which leads to me to wonder why ever even do a melee build when its so point hungry for so littler return. Like later games actually make melee a bit more useful mechanically but thats for those times. Right now im pretty sure str is pure garbage. Yup, unless you really want to throw lots of grenades Strength is practically a pure dump stat for most characters since there's no item weight mechanic either. I've never tried a pure melee character in Returns, though.
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 13:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 06:57 |
|
|
A point or two can be nice if you use grenades regularly, at least.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 13:54
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:A point or two can be nice if you use grenades regularly, at least. That's certainly true, I suppose "pure dump stat" is a slight exaggeration as the range increase to grenade throws from every point of Strength is pretty generous and they're basically useless with just 1.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 14:23
|
|
|
Kanfy posted:Concept art - Renraku Arcology Skyline Ah the Renraku Arcology. Veterans of the tabletop game will remember this place fondly. I love how this piece really nails the feel of the entire world. off in the distance with the bright sunlight, you have these gleaming massive complexes, which might not be too bad to live in. Immediate in the foreground, you have a road that desperately needs repair, and an old electrical pole that everything else has basically been nailed to because it's there. And then of course one of the corp buildings is on fire. You have to wonder how often those fancy places get hit with some sort of explosion/magical accident/etc considering the amount of runners being hired.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 15:09
|
|
|
Here's a bigger version if someone wants a new wallpaper or something, I dunno.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 15:27
|
|
|
The arcology was a fun high risk, high reward target. Getting in might only require bribing Mr. Sakamoto with a couple thousand nuyens cash to fuel his gambling addiction, but turn down the wrong corridor and you could wind up unleashing the apocalypse . There's a fun what-if module where the whole arcology goes dark and you're hired to break in and find out why. Turns out they managed to summon Cthulu. Now, hardened shadowrunners who've seen the underside of the magical cyberpunk world aren't going to go mad from seeing a few fishmen - but horrors from beyond the stars aren't exactly worried about a few bullets and grenades. Added Space fucked around with this message at 18:04 on May 6, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 18:01
|
|
|
Added Space posted:The arcology was a fun high risk, high reward target. Getting in might only require bribing Mr. Sakamoto with a couple thousand nuyens cash to fuel his gambling addiction, but turn down the wrong corridor and you could wind up unleashing the apocalypse . But come at him with a boat to the face and he folds like a cheap suit
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 19:16
|
|
|
There's a certain bit of background scenery in the game in this area I think that was a backer request from an old SR GM of mine, it's a black van with a red racing stripe and clothes on lines or racks around it. The origin story for what eventually got the group dubbed (by itself) the A-Team when one of the characters stole it. Though the guy was the one to add the stripe and spoiler.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 19:32
|
|
|
Kanfy posted:Today's update brought to you by
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 19:56
|
|
|
At this point of the game I thought I had the motive of the Ripper down pat. I was pretty wrong.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
Iretep posted:The real reason to take quickness over str when you want the 3rd weapon slot is quickness increases dodge while str raises nothing useful besides damage. Which leads to me to wonder why ever even do a melee build when its so point hungry for so littler return. Like later games actually make melee a bit more useful mechanically but thats for those times. Right now im pretty sure str is pure garbage.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 21:16
|
|
|
At this point in the game, I had noticed that the Universal Brotherhood was showing up more often and more prominently than Random Background Scientology Ripoff would, and was basically waiting for the other shoe to drop on that.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2017 22:31
|
|
|
Iretep posted:The real reason to take quickness over str when you want the 3rd weapon slot is quickness increases dodge while str raises nothing useful besides damage. Which leads to me to wonder why ever even do a melee build when its so point hungry for so littler return. Like later games actually make melee a bit more useful mechanically but thats for those times. Right now im pretty sure str is pure garbage. You can deal a lot of AP damage if you invest in melee.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
It sure is convenient and not suspicious at all that the one coroner we knew happened to show up so far away from his usual place of work. Robots vs. hellhounds sounds like a fun excursion though.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 20:32
|
|
|
Ain't no crime to make some extra nuyen, gotta stack that soy-cheddar when you can!
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2017 21:34
|
|
|
Glazius posted:It sure is convenient and not suspicious at all that the one coroner we knew happened to show up so far away from his usual place of work. Are you telling me you don't trust that face?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
I'm enjoying this LP - it got me to buy Shadowrun Hong Kong which is now $5 on steam if anyone is interested. Will I lose out on anything by playing that before the previous games?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 06:25
|
|
|
ModernMajorGeneral posted:I'm enjoying this LP - it got me to buy Shadowrun Hong Kong which is now $5 on steam if anyone is interested. The way the matrix is handled is different, almost divisively so, but I find both the Hong Kong and Dragonfall/Returns ways enjoyable. There's some other mechanical differences but that's the major one. There's no real continuity between any of the 3 games though, aside from minor mentions of events in other places. Enjoy the game!
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 06:43
|
|
|
Vadoc posted:There's a certain bit of background scenery in the game in this area I think that was a backer request from an old SR GM of mine, it's a black van with a red racing stripe and clothes on lines or racks around it. The origin story for what eventually got the group dubbed (by itself) the A-Team when one of the characters stole it. Though the guy was the one to add the stripe and spoiler. I don't know if it matches your description exactly, but it's true that there is a large black vehicle next to the crime scene.  ModernMajorGeneral posted:I'm enjoying this LP - it got me to buy Shadowrun Hong Kong which is now $5 on steam if anyone is interested. Good to hear you're enjoying it. And $5 for Hong Kong is a steal, this game is a little tougher to come back to after playing the latter two but it doesn't really matter whether you play Dragonfall or Hong Kong first.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 08:13
|
|
|
I'd honestly recommend playing Returns first. Both for pragmatic (Playing in order means you appreciate the gameplay changes made and see steadily improving writing) and personal (This is a really good entry point into Shadowrun and makes getting into Dragonfall and Hong Kong a lot easier) reasons.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 08:20
|
|
|
GoneRampant posted:I'd honestly recommend playing Returns first. Both for pragmatic (Playing in order means you appreciate the gameplay changes made and see steadily improving writing) and personal (This is a really good entry point into Shadowrun and makes getting into Dragonfall and Hong Kong a lot easier) reasons. I tend to recommend giving Returns at least a shot first as well, but if you just want to jump in because of the sale on Hong Kong then I'd say go for it. Also  Paco just disappeared from my group, so now Murphy is talking in his place. I'm starting to think I have talent for encountering bizarre bugs in this game.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 09:07
|
|
|
Kanfy posted:
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 09:21
|
|
|
Shadowrun: Hong Kong - Extended Edition is 75% off on Steam. There is also a bundle with all the games, but I'm not sure about the pricing because I have most of the stuff already.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 09:20
|
|
|
Okay, from what I can tell, the stat-increasing bug is still in effect and remains in effect even after a fresh install. And like I thought, it seems to apply to all NPCs because my hit chances are abysmally low even by Very Hard standards. I'm starting to think that saving and loading is just fundamentally messed up in base Returns, but just to make sure, I'd appreciate if someone with the game could see if they can cause the same thing to happen. Just make a character, get to the initial flashback, and quicksave and quickload several times over (as in save -> load -> save -> load -> save etc.) before talking to New Larry and initiating the first combat. Then see if Sangoma's and Sam's stats look something like this 
Kanfy fucked around with this message at 09:40 on May 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 09:38
|
|
|
Oh poo poo, I think I've figured out what's going on. When I tried to do the above save/load business on Very Hard, every load increased Sam and Sangoma's stats by 2. Out of curiosity, I tried doing the same on Hard and noticed the same thing happened except their stats increased by 1. On Normal and Easy, there seemed to be no difference. So what it looks like is that Hard and Very Hard are applying a flat +1 and +2 modifier respectively to all NPC non-Body stats but for some reason it only happens when you load your game, re-applying and stacking every time you do it. Now here's the real funny part, I started up Dragonfall: Director's Cut where your companions also start off as NPCs on the first screen. I started a game first on Normal and then on Very Hard. Dietrich's stats upon starting on Normal:  And upon starting on Very Hard:  Flat +2 boost to everything including skills and +1 to Body, which I assume is what all your enemies get on that difficulty in Dragonfall. Now while this is still clearly hosed, fortunately the load/save issue doesn't seem to exist and I know for a fact that I played through the game on Hard without ever noticing anything weird and without my characters' stats ballooning to insane levels. Unless this is some weird local issue only applying to my games, this seems like a pretty major bug. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 10:46 on May 12, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:19
|
|
|
So, time to play on Normal? Or to Ironman this poo poo?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:33
|
|
|
That might explain why my player character consistently felt really loving useless compared to Glory, Eiger and Dietrich when I recently played through Dragonfall.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:33
|
|
|
Randarkman posted:That might explain why my player character consistently felt really loving useless compared to Glory, Eiger and Dietrich when I recently played through Dragonfall.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:38
|
|
|
This is crazy. I never noticed anything like this when I played, which was a while ago. Could it be a bug introduced since then by a patch?
GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 11:42 on May 8, 2017 |
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:40
|
|
|
Kanfy posted:I don't know if it matches your description exactly, but it's true that there is a large black vehicle next to the crime scene. Oh poo poo, my memory was wrong (been a long time or I mixed a few things up), but that's the one! There's no mistaking the A-Team van, guess it's selling guns these days, heh.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:45
|
|
|
GunnerJ posted:This is crazy. I never noticed anything like this when I played, which was a while ago. Could it be a bug introduced since then by a patch? When the game was launched it was pretty bug free but i heard they left it pretty buggy for some reason with later patches. Thankfully they mostly patched the bugs in dragonfall and hong kong.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:54
|
|
|
So the game applies the difficulty bonus when you load but it also saves the enemies stats when you save, and that's why it keeps on stacking as the game keep reapplying the bonus over and over through every save/load cycle?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 11:59
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:So, time to play on Normal? Or to Ironman this poo poo? I mean, I'll probably have to switch to Normal unless someone can figure out how to fix this. I've mentioned it before but I have to do quite a bit more saving and reloading than usual for LP purposes and while it might otherwise make for a funny challenge, I'm not going to deal with having sub-50% hit chances on nearly everything. If I want to play a game where I miss almost every shot, I can just load up XCOM. Although now that I think about it, there was that way to play DMS on the Dragonfall system which might mean I'd only get the "lighter" and more easily avoidable version of the bug from DF. Not sure what I'll do. Either way I'm just glad that there seems to be some way to avoid the issue. When I first noticed the same thing happening again, I was pretty worried I'd have to drop this whole LP because of it. GunnerJ posted:This is crazy. I never noticed anything like this when I played, which was a while ago. Could it be a bug introduced since then by a patch? Hard to say, the pre-Dragonfall version of Returns only had autosaves so even if the issue was around back then already, it would've been far less obvious. I can't find any mention of this bug anywhere, so the idea that it might've existed all this time is kind of nuts. Poil posted:So the game applies the difficulty bonus when you load but it also saves the enemies stats when you save, and that's why it keeps on stacking as the game keep reapplying the bonus over and over through every save/load cycle? I'm no coder but that's what it looks like to me, except that it includes all NPCs including companions not in your party. I don't think the stat increases apply at all unless you do load your game though, so maybe difficulty level has no effect whatsoever until you do that in a given area? Or maybe there's some other passive effect to accuracy or whatever that only applies in combat? I dunno. For what it's worth, Hong Kong doesn't seem to be affected by this.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 12:12
|
|
|
Just wanted to say your lp got me interested in looking at these games and they've been real fun! On the bug talk, the only one I saw of note was hilarious and of a similar vein. Instead of a reload overriting all npc stats, it overwrote my character's info with that of a dead npc.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 12:54
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:Just wanted to say your lp got me interested in looking at these games and they've been real fun! Good to hear it, getting even a few people to discover these cool games means this whole thing isn't just a terrible waste of everyone's time. The only major bug I remember encountering across the games up until now is the fact that in Hong Kong the Rigger companion's skills which allow them to buff their drone don't seem to work properly, making that character a fair bit weaker than they're supposed to be. Other than that it's been mostly minor and avoidable stuff here and there. A little extra polish and fixing wouldn't have hurt the games any, but this stat accumulation thing is the only actually gamebreaking thing I've seen personally. One of the funnier minor glitches I did come across was also in HK where a combat situation didn't end properly, meaning in the following scene where the characters were supposed to walk away from the area in a group, I instead had to watch them all individually trod their way to the door in turn-based mode.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 13:52
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:On the bug talk, the only one I saw of note was hilarious and of a similar vein. Instead of a reload overriting all npc stats, it overwrote my character's info with that of a dead npc.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 14:26
|
|
|
Is the difficulty level something you can change in game? Because then you have the (somewhat hassle-y) solution of switching it to normal when saving and then switching it back to Very Hard after loading.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 16:36
|
|
|
TildeATH posted:Is the difficulty level something you can change in game? No, you can change it at any time but you have to do it from the main menu which as you say is simply too much of a hassle. I'll probably just play on Normal, it's not like it'll make that much of a difference as far as this LP is concerned. I'd still like a confirmation from someone that they can reproduce the bug though, just in case. Starting Dragonfall: Director's Cut on Very Hard and checking Dietrich's stats would probably be enough as well.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 16:55
|
|
Kanfy posted:I'd still like a confirmation from someone that they can reproduce the bug though, just in case. Starting Dragonfall: Director's Cut on Very Hard and checking Dietrich's stats would probably be enough as well. Can confirm Dietrich's stats match up with what you've seen on my end.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 17:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 5, 2024 06:57 |
|
|
TheMcD posted:Can confirm Dietrich's stats match up with what you've seen on my end. Thanks, I figured as much. Guess I (or someone) should mention this on the forums or reddit or something, people ought to know about it.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2017 17:46
|
|