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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

GoneRampant posted:

I was actually considering trying an LP of Dead Man's Switch back in December, but it fell through. I do agree with pretty much everything that's been said about this game- it's not bad, great in some places, but Dragonfall blows it out of the water. I actually was going to use nearly the exact same character voted for here- female Elf Decker, but with more of a focus on Rifles over Drones. There's just too much content that's locked behind Decker powers to be anything but for at least one playthrough.

I'm also the worst kind of Shadowrun fan- never even touched the pen and paper game, since Shadowrun's reputation as being nearly impossible to DM for means no one wants to lose their sanity. I've also had back luck at finding an online game for it.

Someone asked about Adepts earlier. They are pretty bad in this game, but became unholy killbots in Dragonfall and Hong Kong.

But I'm definitely going to keep an eye on this, given how much I loved this game.

Shadowrun is impossible to DM in the same way that 3rd Edition D&D is impossible to DM. The fundamental math does not work, statting up an adversary exactly as you would a PC is a tremendous waste of time, combat exists in a binary state between "you do nothing" and "you one-shot them," and entire subsystems are tragically busted in and of themselves, let alone where they interact with the main engine.

Much like 3rd Edition D&D, the secret to being a good DM is to figure out how many dice a Vaguely Challenging enemy is and throw that number of dice when appropriate and consider the mechanical side of things settled.

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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
This Armitage guy, what a joker.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
One of the touches that I really appreciate in the Shadowrun setting is that, thankfully, even the most powerful megacorp is vulnerable to the foibles of its low-ranking employees.

Sure, an Aztechnology Jaguar Warrior kill squad can level a city block in defense of corporate secrets. However, Debbie in accounting has been seeing Mikhail in purchasing, so she "goes to take a walk" most Tuesday afternoons and leaves her computer logged in to obscure her extracurricular activities from Corporate. Sure would be awful if someone in a maintenance outfit took a look at the local accounts while she was, ah, "consulting with colleagues."

The same story plays out a million times and more per day, with only minor variation. Not even Lofwyr, dragon CEO of Saeder-Krupp, can hope to keep a handle on all his employees. Doesn't stop him from trying, but he triggers the severance clause of a high level contract a lot more often than he'd expected to when he first established it.

(Saeder Krupp execs have significantly more lavish compensation packages than most other megacorps. The catch is the severance clause. In the event of you committing a fireable offense, Lofwyr gets to eat you. Rumors that he sets you on fire first are dismissed as way, way too tacky a pun.)

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Poil posted:

Compared to real life future Shadowrun has:

+Magic
+No global warming
+Dwarves, trolls and other cool races
+Affordable cybernetics, the most basic 20/20 cybereyes costs as much as an iphone and can be done in an afternoon

-Magical monsters like hellhounds and ghouls

-Well okay there is global warming, but it's being opposed by Literal Armies, bankrolled by Literal Dragons
-The American Supreme Court ruled "you know what gently caress it, we give up, corporations are bigger than nations now" back right about now
-Predictable effects on human rights followed
-Kristallnacht Times The Whole Goddamn World Happened That One Time
-Wal-Mart is powered by blood sacrifice that may or may not be tearing the walls of reality open to They Know Not What in the name of increased quarterly profits

+the food they sell is really good though

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Shoeless posted:

-The shocks caused by magic returning to the world caused massive natural disasters such as earthquakes, killing tons of people.

The largest among them was passed off as a natural disaster mostly because the real story would scare people, and the REAL real story would embarrass a lot more powerful people.

This will only get very obliquely referenced in the game proper, but part of the reason the US has been split into a bunch of sub-nations is history's greatest scam. Very long story short, magic's only just come back in a big way, a Native American guy with some terror/magic connections calls up the president, and says "Howdy! You want to give my people back their land?" and is of course told 1. how did you get access to this channel 2. lol gently caress off.

"Your funeral."

Five minutes later every single volcano in the continental united states goes off, every tectonic plate does a little dance, and the San Andreas Fault shrugs half of LA right into the ocean. He gives it half an hour, long enough for the sheer scope of the devastation to become only initially apparent.

"Soooo, want to give my people back their land, or you want another one?"

Next week, most of the western united states has been ceded to the suddenly-instantly-formed Native American Nations, Tentative Supreme Leader That Guy.

Oh, PS, in order to do that he needed to get a solid third of his not-particularly-numerous people to commit ritual suicide in a particularly nasty ritual, and could not have even hypothetically have done it again for another year at minimum. By the time what was left of the US government had a way to figure that one out, they'd lost any meaningful ability to retaliate, and they'd told their people "look guys magic is a thing and these people seem to know how it works, we'd rather have wizards as friendly neighbors than an insurgency."

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

SIGSEGV posted:

/\/\
Don't worry, steam sales are coming soon.

They've been named as a faction in game and are a cult and more than just that: a shadowrun action. There's no way we're not at least getting a job or two on the side poking at them.

Actually is there any faction in shadowrun that isn't a bunch of pricks in a systemic way? Apart from irrelevant tiny powerless groups?

As in the real world, depends on the flavor of prick.

Ares Macrotechnology's CEO seems to be a genuinely decent sort, and taking active measures against various existential threats to the world at large. Sure, self-interest is involved; the only thing better than being able to sell a gun that kills the ravening flesh-eating monstrosities is being able to sell nutritional supplements that stop you from becoming a ravening flesh-eating monstrosity. Regardless, the Ares #brand is very much about Protecting You From The Umbrella Corporations Of The World, coughcoughaztechnologycough.

This is a good thing, as Ares also provides the last word in megacorporate security.

Every major population center in the Sixth World has a satellite with a battery of Rods-from-God on it and an ARES logo. 99% of the metahuman population is one sentence and five minutes from being killed by Damien Knight, in an attack against which there is no possible defense.

So, uh.

Good?

UCAS government, what's left of it, tends to not be complete jackoffs.

The Vatican is also surprisingly okay; they're one of the ridiculously big names in the magical world, because 1. between all the poo poo they've looted and all the poo poo they've collected by more legitimate means over the years, they're sitting on a hoard of magical artifacts that makes dragons envious 2. they got a head start into researching magical theory courtesy of discovering holy poo poo, some of these rituals actually invoke things. Mostly the exorcism ones. You want someone to chitchat with spirits, you should probably look elsewhere, you want someone to chuck thunderbolts at your enemies, any megacorporate wage-mage will do you, but when you absolutely have to shut some magical bullshit down, you send in the Order of Saint Sylvester, packing bell, book, and candle.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Fat Samurai posted:

That's cool. I know basically nothing of Shadowrun besides what's shown on the games and assumed that with all the magical bullshit organised religions had mostly disappeared.

As befits an alternate history line invented in the early 90s, the entire middle east gets handwaved into "uh, a dragon happened, also islam is not happy about any new developments" and nothing happens there, at all, ever.

Because the game was fairly big in Europe, though, they had to establish a certain degree of 'so, what the gently caress were the catholics up to when all his went down." Answer: they started off being firmly "yup this is all satan bullshit" and reversed stance real hard in 2024, not before they had a few schisms about it. The French church said "well you can gently caress off" at saying metahumans didn't have souls (not least because some fairly high-ranking french clergy went metahuman), and the German/Portuguese ones said "well you can gently caress off" at the statement that nah, jk, they do.

Also the Irish government and the Mexican government making Catholicism illegal kinda was a kick in their rear end.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Shoeless posted:

He was the president of basically the remains of the USA, so yeah I'd say he counts as a faction.


Well, Satan is actually a real, active entity it turns out. So that validates a whole bunch of religious organizations, at least in their own eyes.

Not quite.

The Adversary totem exists, sure, but Satan he ain't, any more than the Skyfather totem is God.

The Adversary is young, aggressive, sexy as all hell, and willing to do capital-A-anything to bring down the throne. He is the breaking of boundaries, the will to reduce the corrupt authority and all its pointless laws to ash. He is Rebellion, pure and simple. Adversary shamans make pretty good shadowrunners!

But, well, shamanism is a two way street. And as totems bend their shamans, so can shamans bend totems.

And when you bend the power of the Adversary to forge a throne rather than to bring one down, you are calling on something dark and terrible. Something toxic. Something that pretty much everything in the spirit world can agree needs to be put down and put down hard.

Dragonfall has some Good Missions, I mention apropos of nothing.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Night10194 posted:

Someday I wanna see some middle eastern cyberpunk.

I mean Dubai is basically already an insane cyberpunk dystopia already.

I have only ever read one thing along those lines, and it was set in Africa. The Eye, the Ear, and the Arm is so Shadowrun it hurts. It is also so young adult literature it hurts, but in my defense I was thirteen at the time.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Shoeless posted:

That's not the impression I've ever gotten from the various material I'm encountered with him in it, but I'm by no means a Shadowrun lore expert. Interesting to see another person's views on the matter.

No way to be cute about this one: cross-referencing the primary source with that nice guy down by the magic shop will fill you in on the details your primary source is missing.

It's one of the very nice details of these games- they're willing to let characters' totally understandable foundational assumptions be dead wrong and letting their mistakes stand.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
rip, steve jackson

shame that after the tabletop games market collapsed you turned to a life of cybercrime

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

King Doom posted:

is0bel is the worst character because she straight up killed her buddies cat because he was mean to her on the internet.

deckers are the worst

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Glazius posted:

I imagine eventually there'll be cyberware worth purchasing for a rigdecker? Skillwires or something?

Cyberware in Dead Man's Switch is kind of unimpressive in this regard. It gets more creative later on, which is kind of Dead Man's Switch in a nutshell.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
Little touch in there. What, precisely, totems are is the subject of a great deal of debate. But the one thing everyone can agree on is that what they appear as isn't what they are. They represent concepts, ideals, and appear to practitioners of shamanic magic in a form they find easiest to associate.

Dog is not the totem of belly rubs and licking your nuts. Dog is Loyalty, both given and earned, to the pack and to the follower.

As such, he's one of the few totems that will genuinely gently caress you up for ignoring him. Adversary always gets his in the end, Eagle gets doing your thing solo, and trying to venerate Shark instead of just going on a bloody rampage is going to get you bloodily rampaged. But if you do not demonstrate loyalty to Dog, Dog will return the favor. With interest.

And that jack in Jake's head is a pretty profound expression of disloyalty to the spirit realm.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

GhostStalker posted:

Don't forget the ol' Shadowrun standby pistol, the Ares Predator. Any self respecting Runner should never leave their squat without it. I forget which model the one in the game is, probably the Predator 2 because it kinda looks like the Robocop gun.

Ares Macrotechnology: This Summer's Action Flicks Were Brought To You By Our Small Arms Marketing Department.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Poil posted:

The Predator is kinda silly since it's, as far as I know, always the best choice for a handgun regardless of edition.

Yes! :fap:

Spending far too much time pouring over the books just for a single gun is quite fun. What upgrades to get for it? What ammunition to use? If it's a shotgun or rifle is it better to go for the bayonet or the monofilament chainsaw? Underbarrel bola thrower? Underbarrel grenade launcher? Underbarrel flamethrower (yes, you can mount that on a flamethrower)? There's just too much awesome stuff.

In 5 it isn't. There's a published adventure partially based around it: Ares Small Arms is horrified to discover that they are definitively bottom of the rankings at this season's self defense expos, and a series of Ares-on-Ares shadowruns follow as the execs involved make desperate bids to shift the blame.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

IBlameRoadSuess posted:

I bet in the end all the runners just successfully hack the databases and everyone involved is blamed.

As per ancient and honorable Shadowrun tradition, my group came to the conclusion we'd make more money faking our own deaths and selling the information to the highest non-Ares bidder.

So, yeah, sort of.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

PMush Perfect posted:

From all the reviews I've seen, you just made that adventure sound way more fun than it actually is.

My GM is pretty good at deciding "no, this is stupid, we are doing this my way" when a published adventure does not live up to snuff. Your Game Will Vary.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Lynneth posted:

The hell are insect spirits? Can someone elaborate on those and why they're bad?

Jerks.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

wiegieman posted:

If we needed any more proof that McKlusky is an absolute moron, talking like that to a shaman is a really bad idea. The Salish-Sidhe Council is a geniuine world power, mostly because of what its shamans can do.

Yeah, that's nice, they can take it up with Lone Star's customer service department.

On a personal level pissing off shamans is dumb, but Lone Star is who you hire when you want to be sure the little people know loving with your stuff is a one-way trip to an rear end-beating. Blind, stupid police brutality is part of their selling point.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
An additional chiming in on the subject of shamanic totems: they appear as you expect them to. Many wells, one water. In the CAS, seekers after a battle with someone bigger than them do not find Dragonslayer, they find Johnny Reb, much as in England they find Saint George. In Egypt (and Egypt alone, for reasons that actual modern-day students of mythology still shrug their shoulders about when asked) Authority and Life-Giver switch elemental affinities; Skyfather and Earthmother replaced by Earthfather and Skymother.

Courtesy of the fact the Native American Nations got a head-start on magical bullshit, and in those first terrifying post-Awakening days people who had even the slightest idea what the gently caress were thin on the ground, the vast majority of UCAS shamans have a distinctly Native American flair to their totems. The kid who's throwing around magic powers she says Bart Simpson gave her, once her story comes to the attention of a legit shamanic circle, will be met by "yup, this is Coyote up to his usual bullshit. someone with magesight make a circuit of the local gambling dens, you should find a Coyote shaman hustling, they'll be able to teach the kid how to handle this nonsense." And after a couple months of tutelage, the kid will know that Bart was just the face Coyote wore to make her feel more comfortable.

The Native American Nations don't wield a lot of hard power, but they have soft power crackling out of every orifice.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Cthulhu Dreams posted:

It doesn't make any sense in universe though. Workers are paid with company scrip and buy from company stores. Why would an Ares company store sell Aztechnologies consumer products? The entire point of the setting is that hte Megacorps are vertically integrated and as such would never do that by definition.

Has always been a truly weird part of the setting.

Because for all Lofwyr's tried to make it otherwise, a CEO can't control every part of a megacorp.

Stuffer Shack, the local McDonalds equivalent, is almost 100% a vertically integrated Aztechnology product. But the employees you're selling fast food to gotta come from somewhere, and the local hiring agency's gonna do you better than Corporate's, and if you can get a leg up at those SoyBell fuckers across the street by getting a used Saeder-Krupp fryer instead of the company standard you better goddamn well believe that the franchise operator's going to make that call ten times out of ten.

A megacorporation is not one organism; it is made up of several billion metahumans with agendas, incentives, profound interests in half-assing it, and no practical reason to like their fellow members of the corporate family. Employee discounts are a lot easier than trying to restart currency from scratch.

Not, of course, that some enterprising VIPs haven't tried. Sure is a shame that their projects have this nasty tendency to end up making the news. drat conspicuously unidentifiable "terrorists."

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

GhostStalker posted:

Isn't Stuffer Shack more like future 7-11? At least, that was my impression reading Food Fight. I remember seeing a future McDonald's in the culture/vice fluff book from 4th Ed, but its name is escaping me at the moment. I do remember how ridiculous its menu was in how they managed to stuff substitutes into every part of the burger, and don't even give you potato fries.

Also a possibility!

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
BTLs: a drug so nice that step one of detox is getting you a heroin habit.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

OAquinas posted:

What I found interesting is the way Hong Kong presents BTLs. Bit more nuance there--plus an actual decision besides "smash bad thing."

As in any very thinly disguised drug metaphor (with a side of being a metaphor of escapist fantasy) you've got grades of this stuff. Your high-grade, responsibly-programmed stuff is still going to hopelessly addict you, but you'll be mostly functional to keep buying. Our buddy in Hong Kong has a supplier with an eye for the long term!

These idiots we've just met are the equivalent of a bunch of tweakers putting together a meth lab in a shed out back. Their product is cheap, awful, ludicrously potent, and going to kill you very, very quickly.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
Oh, there's plenty of people who are hopelessly loving evil in the setting.The shades of grey are exactly how many hopelessly evil people you're willing to use to try to accomplish your goals, and the odds are good that your friendly local Mr. Johnson looks at you about the same way you look at someone like Holmes.

Welcome to late-stage capitalism cyberpunk, baby! How you gonna get around in this sleazy bedroom town if you don't put yourself up for sale?

Of course, clearly, Holmes was just a crazy person operating on his own, and it is a safe assumption there is no deeper conspiracy behind his murder we have brushed up against. Just sell all that weird poo poo we found in his office to the highest bidder on Shadownet and call it a day, is what I say.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Glazius posted:

Yeah, given how astral echoes work I wonder how all of Seattle hasn't already turned itself into a festering pit of murder-spite.

...yeah, about that

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

RedMagus posted:

What's funny is all the talk about the world being so toxic that eventually horrors from outside come in and wipe everyone is pretty identical to what happens in a game of Dominions, from the LPs I've seen.

The last big gasp of the metaplot actually answered the question of why the toxic hellscape hadn't triggered magic apocalypse yet, and they did a pretty job of demonstrating they did, in fact, have that one planned.

The Great Wyrm Dunkelzahn was the first nonhuman president. Was overwhelmingly popular! And at his inauguration, he was assassinated. This kinda ripped the heart out of the nation! The conspiracy theories started almost instantly, and then went into absolute overdrive when Dunkelzahn's Will got read. Incidentally, if you're running a Shadowrun campaign, Dunkelzahn's Will makes a great list of plot hooks.

Intro to it reads "This "will" concept humans have developed seems to be a way to reward allies and punish enemies even from beyond the grave. I am honestly kind of embarrassed we didn't come up with it first. So, anyway, here's the list: one, most of my hoard goes into the Draco Foundation, an organization tasked to carry out the terms of my will, two:" etc etc. The one that made literally everyone go "WHAT THE gently caress" was Bequest 32: "The Draco Foundation will grant one wish to any person who can prove they shook hands with John F. Kennedy. He seemed like a decent person."

You learn precisely what the gently caress in an intensely railroady official adventure. Extremely long story short: it's one of the pieces of ritual magic so old we have forgotten it's ritual magic: Sacrifice The King To Bring Back The Sun. At a moment that the hopes and dreams of an appreciable fraction of metahumanity were tied up in him, Dunkelzahn took the express route to the Astral Plane (Apply C4 directly to the forehead) and took all that hope with him, to be used as heavy weaponry against the incoming monstrosities.

Dragons around the world are still aggressively debating how the gently caress he pulled that off. In one notable event, two of them got into an argument on ShadowNet about it, which was concluded by [long sequence of nonsense characters]@skadmin saying "you idiot children have given away more in the last ten minutes than he did in ten years of that insipid talk show."

So sleep tight, children: somewhere in the Deep Astral, a Dragon-President-God fights entities of unfathomable horror so you don't have to. Also, his mortal representatives will offer several hundred thousand nuyen if you can track down the Maltese Falcon. One of his bequests was getting the Falcon itself to the guy who showed him the film the first time, and predictably, the team that recovered it had difficulties delivering it.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
The reason the Shadowrun universe is vastly superior to the 40K universe is that in Shadowrun it was done, it happened, and the few people who know it was done are mostly just jealous they couldn't pull off the same trick. Anyway, moving on, what's the latest quarterly report. No what are you stupid we're not going to publicize this, it'd cause the stock market to panic.

There is hope. It's not much, and the corporate apex predators are just as capable of commodifying it as they are anything else, but it exists. You will do little things to make the world a better place, and odds are good nobody will ever know. But they will happen, and if you're lucky, some of them will even endure.

And if you're -really- lucky, you'll be able to make some nuyen doing them!

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Graylien posted:

Maybe I'm missing something but why is this more 'what the gently caress' than any of the other batshit stuff in his will? Is it the assassinated presidents link?

Imagine that immediately following the assassination of a president it is revealed his will left a couple million dollars to the Lee Harvey Oswald Foundation.

"This has to be a subtle message to someone. but who"

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

I dont know posted:

Do you know what adventure that was in? I thought they went into what happened in detail the novels, but deliberately left it vague/ambiguous in the sourcebooks/adventure modules to allow GMs to come up with their own things.

That Guy We Won't Reference Because He's Kind Of A Walking Spoiler's Back.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
Blood magic is honestly one of the things that the system does best with as far as thematic bridges.

Drawing back from the ridiculous minutiae of the setting, the underlying draw of the shadowrun setting is the mix of magic and punk elements. And one of the key aspects of cyberpunk is Everything Is A Commodity Now. You, and everything about you, are an item on a spreadsheet with a nuyen count attached. Might be some high-level megacorporate tally of how much you will be expected to buy from their new ad campaign, might be some creepy wierdo like Holmes seeing your name, an organ, and the corresponding payout, but you are ultimately nothing more than a series of numbers to the world around you.

"But think of the magic of the world!" Yeah, no, dragons took to this world like fish took to water, that should have been a much bigger warning. Anyone looking to magic to save them from commodification has another thing coming. Wage-mages are a thing. Talismonger outlets are a thing. And, ultimately, blood magic is a thing.

Magic, ultimately, is weaponized symbolism. And it is no coincidence that one of the most powerful megacorps in the setting runs on the power of blood. Because blood magic -is- the symbology of the Fifth and Sixth world. "Your life, for my power." That spreadsheet tallying your value, it turns out, was missing a row: the potential returns on ripping your still-beating heart from your chest in a ritual to empower the latest project rollout. It's a poor corporate overlord that leaves an asset like that unleveraged. Aztechnology is not the only corporation indulging in blood magic. They're just the only one where it's official policy.

The reason you don't get to play a blood mage in Shadowrun is the same reason you don't get to play a comfortable megacorporate executive. This is not a game about the power you get by reconciling yourself to something unspeakable. This is a game about what you do to survive in their shadows.

Great news! The crazed sorcerors practicing human sacrifice in remote castles are no longer a thing. Tom in HR has made the 'remote castle' part obsolete.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

GunnerJ posted:

But if blood magic weren't conceivably a thing you might try to do in order to survive in the shadows, there wouldn't need to be a rule against it. "Be unbelievably rich and powerful" isn't really even in the same conceptual category as "do a blood ritual" in terms of finding solutions to problems.

Didn't say unbelievably rich and powerful. Just said comfortable. Mike The Middle Manager who dabbles in shadowrunning on the side because his life feels empty is probably a decent character concept too! But you want to play him, you gotta get him fired first. Game requires a certain ground level of powerlessness in order to function.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

White Coke posted:

So a cyberzombie retains all of its knowledge and intelligence, but is enslaved to obey whomever has trapped it soul in its body? Does a cyber zombie become more powerful at lower essence levels?

Hypothetically, a cyberzombie doesn't have to be enslaved to anyone. Functionally speaking, anyone who is stupid enough not to install failsafes in a cyberzombie deserves what they have coming to them.

See, there's this thing called Essence. It's one of the few stats that in-universe has been scientifically measured... admittedly through extremely ugly forms of trial and error. Every piece of cyberware drops your essence by a certain amount, with unpleasant results for dedicated magic-users. Essence describes how closely your soul corresponds to your body. And fairly early on in cyberware research, people started to notice cyberpsychosis. As you had more cyberware installed, you tended to get more distant, more reserved, until past a certain point of augmentation you went on a murderous rampage, a suicidal rampage, or most often both of the above. Extensive psychiatric therapy could delay this. But not prevent it. Once a certain percentage of your body was metal, you were a dead man walking.

It took some mages being brought onboard the project(s) for people to discover just how literal that assessment was.

It took some amazing developments in healing magic, pharmacology, and psychology to discover just how surmountable an issue that could be.

Doctors will admit, if pushed, that yes: the will to live is something that matters in a patient's survival chances. Past Essence Zero, mages will confirm: that will is gone. The soul is detached from the body. And in its place is a horrific void. They can staple a facsimile of your soul back onto your body, but the void will remain, and absent regular arcane treatment, it will one day eat your soul and you will finally, blessedly die. Unfortunately for cybermancy test subjects the world over, this astral void is part of what makes cyberzombies so dangerous; magic directed at them, whether hostile or beneficial, unless boosted to obscene heights is going to flat out fail. Fortunately for the world at large, this also puts a hard limit on how powerful a cyberzombie can be made; at a certain level of negative essence, the rituals required to keep body and soul remotely connected will stop working.

This soul-death-but-not-really manifests in a number of ways. First and foremost, the cyberzombie develops an exciting suite of psychoses that require regular chemical and talking-to-an-expert treatment in order to not blossom into full on murder-suicide rampage. Imagine gender dysphoria, add phantom limb syndrome, throw in every possible flavor of suicidal ideation, and then multiply by several thousand. Cyberzombie brains are 30% Prozac by volume as of moment one, and that's just to keep them at a "not -suicidally- depressed" baseline. Second, it turns out that absent that undefinable will-to-live, the organic components of the cyberzombie are going to start engaging in a turf war between aggressive tissue necrosis and several dozen different flavors of cancer. Third, as the howling void they have in place of an astral presence grows stronger, it is going to start attracting the REALLY BAD kind of spirit to trash anything nearby.

There are workarounds for these problems. It's amazing what weapons researchers can come up with in the name of creating a commando who could take on a magic-supported armored column and concievably win. A number have been put into field testing. And yet with all the powers of megacorporate weapons research in play, the Shadowrun universe has yet to see a cyberzombie that lasted more than a year before failing a combat trial or "failing a combat trial."

You could, of course, try building a robot. There have been AIs built in the Shadowrun universe! They have, unfortunately, been a crapshoot. To the tune of "there is a reason why we are currently on Internet Three, Internet One and Internet Two did not die clean"

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

MJ12 posted:

The clear solution is to create Shadowrunner Bob's Premium Burger Market and Blood Magic Joint. You can sacrifice the cow for power, then you can sell it as food for a profit.

why do you think there is a Stuffer Shack in the heart of even the most hideously poor neighborhoods in Seattle.

Vertical Integration, baby!

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

GunnerJ posted:

We probably don't want to talk about this right now, actually.

The in-universe explanation verges on spoiler territory.

The out-of-universe explanation we can give you, and it totally owns. The company that made Shadowrun was based out of Chicago at the time, and, well, they were making a game set in the near future. So of course Shadowrun-Chicago was full of all sorts of injokes based on each others' personal lives, places they really liked got appearances in plot books, etc, etc, it was getting to be a problem.

You know how there's that old advice in writing to murder your darlings?

"Nope, gently caress you, we're blowing it up, Chicago is now an apocalyptic hellscape populated only by the dying, the lost, and the damned, our office was ground zero for -The Incident-, our hypothetical future selves all died, default setting is now Seattle."

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
You may wonder why it is that a couple of rich well-to-do types are big into the Brotherhood. Please continue to wonder this, because it's genuinely a very nice touch.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
Yup. Beside that.

Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006

Siegkrow posted:

What about the Bortherhood of Steel?

Wait, they became Fascists. poo poo.

"Became."

everyone always ignores that your introduction to the Brotherhood was a door guard tricking you into dying of radiation poisoning for a laugh

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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!!
May 31, 2006
I did appreciate the ex-shadowrunner character- it's a flicker of the characterization they do much better in the following games.

You're not the only one doing this. And some people get out. As you've ~maaaaaybe~ grasped at this point Father Willy's choice of places to bail to was maybe not the greatest.

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