Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


chumbler posted:

Where's Maiev, who did nothing wrong and was proven right?

The Dark Prelate is already in the game, though?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


If you aren't AAing as any support you are doing it wrong.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Junkrat on the new splash screen looks... unfinished.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


SKULL.GIF posted:

Kel'Thuzad has like 800x the depth Garrosh does and way better and more robustly designed talents. :psyduck:

Whoever designed KT's talents should be in charge of every single hero and hero rework.

Ana's talents are similarly great, with lots of utility and options packed into every tier. What the gently caress happened with Garrosh?

Anyway, I hope they take the Ana/Kel'Thuzad talent design philosophy and eventually (lol) rework the other heroes who need it.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Ana base skin recolors are also really, really good. A+ hero release all around.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Power Bottom posted:

find = "spells"; replace = "equipment"

I don't buy that line of thinking at all. They were able to take someone like Stukov's who's mostly a passive bystander with a hulk arm and give him a robust, deep kit.

A big part of Garrosh's problem is mostly Bloodthirst being a bad, unsatisfying ability with very underwhelming talents. Some outside-the-box thinking could have helped here, instead we get "Bloodthirst creeps" "Bloodthirst more often" "Bloodthirst heals more". Why not a talent that heals you for a portion of the damage dealt by the victim over the next X seconds? A talent that removes the Bloodthirst heal when used at high health, but reduces the cooldown and hits harder? And so on.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Toshimo posted:

Actively hurting the experience of 4 other people on your team by stealth-muting them so they can't see that you can't communicate makes you an rear end in a top hat. Full stop.

I've played with this guy before and he's a full on rager and ALL CAPS SCREAMER. No wonder he thinks ignoring assholes is bad.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Johanna's role is to be incredibly obnoxious to actually get past, between the blind, succ, and the slow. In theory with Diablo/Anub'arak/Garrosh once they burn (or miss) their abilities you can largely ignore them and go straight for the squishies. With Johanna and her low-cooldown abilities the engagement window is much, much shorter, and the squishies have much more time and leeway to use their defense/mobility or to back off entirely.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Stitches also feels way less fluid than Pudge and Hog. Something about his hook feels really bad and finicky, I think it's the enormous hitboxes in this game. It's easy to accidentally snag a minion even when you're threading the needle.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


chumbler posted:

It's funny to me that a D.Va skin gets as big billing as some new heroes.

You used to play League, this isn't unusual at all for the genre to headliner a legendary skin.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Sensual Simian posted:

Is Cupbead really as difficult as everyone has been claiming or is it just the normal 2D sidescrolling bullet hell type difficulty?

Always ban Cuphead if you can't draft him.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


TulliusCicero posted:

Also how the hell do you actually kill Malganis in a match? Dude has sustain for days.

I've been playing a lot of HOTS lately ever since getting disillusioned with my re-entry into League (Summoner's Rift is an absolute garbage map and I don't want to play against people who've spent 6 years memorizing jungle paths), and holy poo poo Mal'Ganis is really something else -- and this is coming from an avid Anub'arak main. It's not even necessarily the sustain, the amount of CC he can dish out against an entire team is really something, especially when there's someone like Kael'thas to follow the CC up.

Sure you can pissjar him but good luck doing that between the constant knockups and the 2.5 second sleeps as he zooms away.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


The last time I played HOTS was roughly around the time Genji came out so I've been getting to know the new heroes gradually. I never actually properly tried Kel'Thuzad despite him being a few releases prior to Genji, but having spent a few days on him I think Blizzard's design team really nailed the "raid boss" feel. I remember thinking, prior to KT's release, that there wasn't really design space for him between Kael'thas and Jaina, but Blizzard went a pretty different direction and just loaded him up full with "Don't stand in the loving fire, otherwise holy poo poo" spells and it somehow works really really well.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Illidan is still straight busted in QM as there's barely any coordination to work against him. Just gotta ignore for a few minutes your team crying that you aren't joining teamfights with your earth-shattering 80 damage at level 3 as you build stacks and soak XP. Once you get The Hunt then you can just join every single fight, soak up a couple more damage stacks, and then go back to farming waves and camps.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Moola posted:

Most of the hero reworks took some unique characters and made them bland as hell

Which characters do you think were flattened out by their reworks?

I've been very pleasantly surprised by every rework I've tried out so far. Turning must-take talents into baseline abilities has, without any exception I can think of, been an improvement.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


I haven't tried Sylvanas yet, will give her a spin today.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Every single match, around the time heroic abilities kick in I get some pretty serious lag, then after that it runs smoothly again. Never has an issue running prior to that nor afterwards. Anyone else run into this?

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


I've been playing some Storm League lately, and why is Sylvanas so popular? Every time she's picked she seems totally impotent and never does anything meaningful or swingy to turn fights, other than I guess nailing a Wailing Arrow.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


This Zeratul rework is amazing. I played a shitload of Zeratul before but he always had a clunkiness to him that the rework completely clears away. Might of the Nerazim/Twilight Falls was exactly what his kit needed. Kinda can't believe he gets a 20 second cooldown Rewind, no wonder he's banned all the time in ranked.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Excelsiortothemax posted:

While Zeratul has his Blink, I feel that it’s never enough at times.

How are you using him?

Wormhole at 7 is mandatory, it gives you a vitally necessary flexibility in how you engage and disengage.

My typical build is:

  • Move Unseen (Shadow Hunter is bad imo, if you're able to stack Blink cdr in any meaningful way then they already either can't escape you anyway, or you don't really need to exit soon, and Greater Cleave is a crutch talent)
  • Psionic Strength (Rending Cleave means you're conceding 2 minutes into the match that you won't be able to assassinate targets, Darkness Descends is cute in the gimmick pure attack damage build and lets you merc a lot easier)
  • Wormhole (Ever since Vorpal Blade became baseline for Zeratul, Seeker in the Dark is overkill. You can reproduce Wormhole's functionality with Warp Skirmisher and just saving Blink to escape, but I like the mindgames I can play with Wormhole combined with Might copies.)
  • Might of the Nerazim (Void Prison is for matches where you won't be able to assassinate anyone so you shift into utility/damage support for your team.)
  • Mending Strikes if they don't have heavy burst, Spell Shield if they do (and to be diligent about toggling it to save it for Jaina combo or Pyroblast or whatever). Shroud of Adun is for bads.
  • To taste, but I favor Master Warpblade > Sentenced to Death > Void Slash. I usually only take Void Slash if I'm having trouble that game finishing off targets on my own, and instead focus on dumping as much AOE damage as I can before wormholing back out and relying on my teammates to finish them off. Master Warpblade is basically a free extra burst ability. Sentenced to Death usually only works well if you take Twilight Falls and sequence your combo properly.
  • Twilight Falls > Nexus Blades, usually only ever take Nexus Blades if I have Master Warpblade and I'm getting into protracted duels (bruisers, Valeera, etc)

Engage in stealth using Move Unseen's speed boost, save Blink for escaping or chasing a wounded target after they attempt to peel you with an escape ability. After you dump your initial Q/W, evaluate the situation. Is the enemy team going to react and peel you? Blink out, and copy-blink if necessary to get yourself to safety. Are they preoccupied with other stuff? Copy your Q or W, finish off your target with Zealot Blade stickiness if needed.

Essentially every single non-bruiser/non-tank in the game is a free kill for this Zeratul build if you catch them alone, and a good amount of bruisers/tanks can't really overcome Mending Strikes' healing. If you gank often enough the enemy team will just group up nonstop, at that point you start lurking their backline and either taking down their healer/mage before blinking out, or forcing their frontlines to turn around and peel you off, opening up their formation for your team to charge into them.

Zeratul is also a surprisingly good merc hunter, especially with Mending Strikes. If the map isn't showing any good gank opportunities then you should be grabbing camps.

Move Unseen is somehow the least popular talent at Master/Diamond which I don't understand. Being able to blink out, reset cloak, and very quickly reposition to go after their backline a second time is super great. It also means that if scenarios go bad you'll never get run down by a mounted opponent.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Having a bigger q aoe isn't just a crutch, it literally allows you to hit more targets

Zeratul isn't a mage, he's an assassin. You have priority targets, hitting other targets beyond that is largely superfluous. Baseline Cleave size is big enough to hit 3-4 heroes, merc camps, an entire wave of creeps, that's really all you need.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Oh I didn't see that you said void prison and all the cleave talents were not good. Nevermind lol

If you want to go Q build and Void Prison then that works but you might as well just go Kael'thas or something if you want to dump area damage all over the enemy team without being able to confirm a kill.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Tried out a game with Q build against Imperius/Mephisto/Brightwing/Xul/Zul'jin. Lots of melee clumped up in battle. Figured I'd get extra value out of the cleave and dot -- nope, felt impotent as hell all game long other than picking off Brightwing solo a few times. Couldn't duel Xul, couldn't duel Zul'jin, couldn't duel Imperius. Teamfight contribution was mostly limited to blinking in, dropping empowered Q and then W on someone, wormholing back out and twiddling my thumbs for 5 seconds as I watch Brightwing erase my damage in three pulses.

Granted a part of it was playing from behind on Volskaya, but with the normal build I would have killed the (overaggressive) Xul repeatedly in lane and ensured the team didn't fall behind in XP.

As posted earlier I really would've felt a lot more effective dropping Flamestrikes as Kael'thas. At least then I would have also had a stun for the Imperius and Xul repeatedly charging into my team.

Will give it a few more games but initial impression is I had significantly less control over game flow than with the full assassin build, and didn't really clear camps/waves any faster.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Game 2: Kael'thas/Butcher/Li-Ming/Ragnaros/Zagara on Dragon Shrine. We get rolled over almost immediately, not sure I could have made a difference even with assassin build.

Some notes: I acutely feel the loss of Move Unseen, having to mount-up all the time (which breaks stealth) is a big blow to my maneuverability especially while hanging around shrines playing footsies. Greater Cleave I haven't noticed a single benefit from, before GC I can hit the entire enemy wave/bruiser camp with one cleave, after GC I can..... hit the entire enemy wave/bruiser camp with it. In teamfights, I tag I guess maybe one extra hero with it every other or every third Cleave compared to baseline? Doesn't really rate above judicious blink targeting and timing. Rending Cleave's 40% extra damage is basically worthless on waves (you still need two Cleaves to clear it no matter what), slightly relevant for merc camps, somewhat relevant in fights. I'd take +30% damage from Psionic Strength that applies to my entire kit and autos. Shroud of Adun is hot garbage, three hits from Mending Strikes overtakes it and actually lets you merc without needing to back repeatedly or healer support.

Void Slash is actually pretty good now that I've been playing with it more and I'd push it a lot further up my ranking about even with Sentenced with Death, even without taking the 1Q and 4Q talents.

Game 3: Anduin/Artanis/Jaina/Butcher/Tracer on Hanamura. Normally a game that I absolutely unquestionably go assassin on and just make Anduin/Jaina miserable, but let's see.

Notes: I'm completely incapable of dueling Artanis and will be avoiding him as much as I can for this entire match. Greater Cleave isn't even enough radius for me to hit someone hitting a wall from the other side. I'm a complete liability in fights and we quickly go down 1-2 levels before the 7th minute. Void Prison picks up some value here that I'm not sure I could have effectively managed with Might, by letting me consistently shut off Jaina/Anduin while my team deals with Butcher/Artanis/Tracer, and again as I catch Butcher doing their elite camp and am able to lock him down long enough for my team to show up, kill him, and take the camp with help of a D.Va bomb and Alexstrasza flame spam. That second one I definitely couldn't have done with Might of the Nerazim, as Butcher had slaughterhouse up and ready to go. Another Void Prison on top of Tracer blinking into Anduin/Jaina seals the game and we pull off a comeback pushing straight into their core at 14 minutes.

Game 4: Sylvanas/Fenix/Valeera/Rehgar/Illidan on Alterac Pass. Taking a lot of willpower to not just go assassin build here as this is going to be a game full of duels.

Notes: The Valeera and Illidan are overconfident and feed early on, but I have a bad feeling about how this game will turn out with me going mage build and the rest of my team being Li Li/Raynor/Li-Ming/Tychus. Will need to nail my VPs. VPs pick up a lot of value here with Li-Ming and Tychus being able to wind up their nukes to burst down fragile targets before Reghar can drop fat heals on them. Illidan playing recklessly lets me pick up value from Void Slash, and Greater Cleave lets me be sloppy with positioning and still tag Illidan and Rehgar both as they try to engage onto our ranged carries.

Backbreaking VPs plus Valeera getting into a snit and feeding delivers an easy victory.

Conclusions: I stand by my opinion that Greater Cleave is suboptimal, especially compared to the opportunity cost of losing blink uptime or consistent movespeed. Time your Qs and position better. Rending Cleave is whatever, lower damage ceiling than its alternatives, but a more consistent damage floor. Shroud of Adun is straight up the worst talent at 13. Void Slash is a lot better than I initially gave it credit for.

Void Prison requires a significant gameplay approach shift but is, after playing several games with it, probably the more reliable all-around option.

SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

I don't really know how solo queue is but from my experience playing in ngs and heroes lounge, you were trolling if you didn't go q build. You could still assassinate people and at 16 you had some of the best team fight damage on the entire game.

I'm hardly NGS tier but I was able to hit Rank 1 / borderline Master when I was giving this game dedicated playing time a few years ago. I'm sure the game's changed a lot and I'm not even that good anymore.

My general take is that adding a bit more splash damage in fights isn't always going to be "meaningful" damage, while extra kill speed on a specific target is going to be meaningful (less time to be healed/peeled, less time to wind up abilities, higher chance of catching them with cooldowns down). Ever seen pubbies complain that Illidan is bottom for hero damage? Similar principle is at work there.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


garthoneeye posted:

Supposedly, the reason RoD was never touched before was that Blizzard’s internal metrics showed it had a better win rate than Horrify.

I have a friend who is a gigantic Gul'dan nerd and very very good player who exclusively took Rain of Destruction. He says the change is a nerf to it because it cuts the range by 50%, forces you to guess where the fight is going to be, and doesn't let you immediately start raining destruction (since now it starts after 1.5 seconds instead of immediately).

I don't fully agree with him, in particular because I tend to be a much more aggressive player than he is (which naturally comboed well when I'd go tank/bruiser and he'd go Gul'dan) and see precasting Rain to wade immediately into battle to be a huge damage boost, but I think he does have a point that being able to safely "join" fights from essentially 1/3 the map away without putting Gul'dan at risk was a big benefit of the old RoD. Tilt the scales, while still being able to fight elsewhere if needed, kind of like the Abathur conundrum.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Well I found a use for Greater Cleave, it's pretty good in brawl where everyone's constantly clumped up anyway.

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


Charles Bukowski posted:

What makes Abathur and Illidan such a deadly duo?

Symbiote attack speed at 4 turbocharges Illidan's passive and makes it impossible to escape from him unless you can run through a gate. The extra shielding, health regeneration, and damage from symbiote is icing on top making Illidan capable of 1.5v2ing pretty easily, and the game snowballs from there.

This is counterable but

Moola posted:

quick match

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017



Artanis is one of my most played heroes and I largely agree with your review but at the same time he feels like he's in an excellent spot balance-wise and even minor buffs to underused talents would push him back up to permaban status like from a couple years ago.

Some of your buffs to the defensive talents turn these talents into ones I'd always take and just be a constant presence in the enemy team rubbing their faces off.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

SKULL.GIF
Jan 20, 2017


drat, Chen must've really been in a bad place if they're moving 13/20 talents down to levels 1 and 4 and buffing the talents in the process.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply