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Orv
May 4, 2011

Calidor posted:

Goons getting called out on MMORPG.COM as though this article is some kind of Goon offensive against the game. Those folks are seriously deranged.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/464558/pc-gamer-theres-something-strange-about-ashes-of-creation/p1

One dude says some bad poo poo about EVE goons, another sort of implies that maybe the article author is bad because he's a goon, that's about it. How you even found that thread probably speaks more about you here.

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Orv
May 4, 2011
I like that they don't have a single ability that isn't directly stolen/ported from some other MMO. Which at some point, I guess everything has kind of been done, but sheesh.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Mulva posted:

If half those games release in any form I would be greatly shocked. If this game is one of them I may start assuming I live in some sort of alternate Lovecraft dimension, because that poo poo would defy everything I know about how the world works.

But Revival got canceled?

Orv fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Sep 19, 2017

Orv
May 4, 2011
They fired a bunch of people end of last year but it's totally fine it was nobody essential game is still happening by the way we're selling more stuff!

E: Or was that Elyria? Neither are happening either way.

Orv fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Mar 6, 2018

Orv
May 4, 2011

Freakazoid_ posted:

A Tale in the Desert had offline gathering tasks. No being caught and sold into prostitution needed.

Then what's even the point, really.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Ehud posted:

Here’s a new gameplay video that shows a bunch of combat and some siege stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59ih84Xh5E8

You know if I wanted to play that lovely wizards and rogues and warriors CTF Source mod I'd just play that.

And yes it's an early release but it should inspire me to want to play it.

Orv
May 4, 2011
It only just now really struck me how hilariously stupid it is to make a BR mode to test your MMO.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Zaodai posted:

That's ultimately the stumbling block for all these pie in the sky MMOs that promise huge battles and player driven worlds and all that crap. Sure, you can probably code the engine to take it and to render all the stuff you need if it were a single player game or everybody were always on a LAN or something. But the netcode challenges and especially the infrastructure challenges of getting everything to not just chug and die under the load make it impractical for an MMO.

There's a reason that when huge battles happen in EVE they have to resort to time dilation which is just standardized lag.

While I've come to think it's never going to amount to an actual game, the seven years Camelot Unchained spent on building an engine has in fact paid off with 100s of people on screen and very little appreciable frame loss or lag. Of course it looks like a modernized DAOC, if it was modernized in 2008, but if they actually manage to pull it off in another 7 years it might be worth looking into.

Orv fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Mar 23, 2019

Orv
May 4, 2011
Calling this unsalvagable garbage is an insult to unsalvageable garbage.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Ort posted:

I was excited to see some stuff but probably a good move. Back when Blizzard made good games they would delay stuff to make sure it’s right, which is always the best move for the long term.

Most games you could delay for their entire dev cycle again and unless they spent that time stripping out the rotten core designs the game will still turn out terribly. Far, far more games have been delayed - at least at the level of global delay announcements - and still come out bad than have been saved by them. One or three person indie passion projects probably skew that math a little but certainly not a lot. Ashes of Creation is probably not at either point yet and realistically creating an actual honest to God indie MMO that isn't just a playable half scam is gonna take a ton of time, but it won't magically turn into a good game if they take forever. What Miyamoto should have said was that a delayed game is better, if it's already good.

Orv fucked around with this message at 05:23 on May 11, 2021

Orv
May 4, 2011

punk rebel ecks posted:

https://www.nintendo-insider.com/sh...ociated%20with.
*

Also, the thing is that Miyamoto said that at a time when forever delayed games weren't a thing yet. Duke Nukem Forever, the most infamous title, was announced the same year that comment was made. Kickstarter obviously wasn't a thing yet. Games often had development times of a year or two at most. Even massive RPGs. I mean, Half-Life 2 was seen as being in "development hell" because it took five years to release. The issue back then was that publishers really pushed developers to released games that were just not ready. It wasn't uncommon to have developers be commissioned to create and ship titles in under six months. Today it may seem that many developers need to know when to call it quits like Kojima or countless Kickstarter campaigns, but at the time rushed game releases were a major problem.

*I assume this is a translation error and he meant to say "I didn't mean to say that a non-delayed game is always bad".


I was being overly pithy and shouldn't have misquoted a half remembered thing anyway, but what I was getting at was actually something else after I thought about it. My concern with Ashes is that as Ffycchi has said, it's actually in development and even if they're delaying it now, it's still going to be in an actual, honest to god alpha state in July. We've seen a ton of games go down the road of giving backers access during even late alpha stages where a lot of stuff is set up and figured out and then spin their wheels for years trying to accommodate frankly a bunch of people that shouldn't be anywhere near a game in that stage. Kickstarted MMOs in particular have failed at this stage of things or come out of it with a giant, unfun mess - Crowfall most recently - that isn't going to be remotely sustainable. The ideal thing would be to close up shop, tell everyone to gently caress off for four years and deliver a game. But that djinn is long out of the bottle, that probably isn't sustainable unless they have a ton of outside investment and people would lose their goddamn minds because gamers are the most entitled children on earth.

I honestly hope it turns out differently, I hope it comes together and is decent and sticks around for more than eight months or two years or whatever. I expect, however, that they're making the exact same mistakes everyone else has and it's going to end the same way, even with this delay and the apparent knowledge of the devs/backer community that they need to keep it hands off for a while longer. And while as I said in my first post, things like this do take a large amount of time, five years into a project with "We probably shouldn't let people without a critical eye/development knowledge anywhere near this" is not a great look no matter what.

Orv
May 4, 2011
We're all decrepit ancients now, ain't nobody got time for that poo poo.

Orv
May 4, 2011

KirbyKhan posted:

Let he who has not thrown down $200 on a beta cuz of FOMO cast the first stone.

[Casting Stone ... 3.2]

Orv
May 4, 2011
What

Orv
May 4, 2011
I mean ADL is unequivocally a dumbass and a harbinger of failure but that seems extreme.

Orv
May 4, 2011

ShowTime posted:

It's because people think the game is $500. Yes, you have to pay $500 to participate in the alpha (or be a streamer I guess) but you also get a year of game time and $150 in-game shop money, plus all the other stuff. Chat just sees the game as $500.

$500 is just too much to me to commit too, unfortunately. I'd hate to spend the $500 and play for 3 months.

Almost irrespective of what the $500 gives you, charging it for alpha access feels insanely scummy. People do not actually view that as "We're overcharging for alpha access because we want people who will understand this is under development" (because no one ever does), people view it as $500 for alpha access.

Orv
May 4, 2011
Lol

Orv
May 4, 2011

Doublestep posted:

like yeah spending money on games is fine if you can afford it but also I'm absolutely going to make fun of you for spending $500 on a game that hardly exists and is a coked up fever dream

It's this. In my years of playing WoW I have unquestionably spent probably a couple thousand in subscription, expansions, accounts and services costs. Ashes of Creation seems like it has a better chance of actually getting out the door in a good state than most Kickstarted MMOs and I do fundamentally agree that $475 for a lifetime sub and a bunch of cool stuff is a worthwhile purchase if the game survives, but not before it's got a single thing to show for it.

Orv
May 4, 2011

Gay Rumsfeld posted:

Lots of people itt really concerned with how others spend their money.

Reminder that Path of Exile had a $12,000 supporter pack when that game was in Alpha (and yes, people bought it). Lots of people give money to projects early on because they believe in them, they want to support them, and they want see them succeed. Many of those people also have very large disposable incomes. This really isn't hard to understand.

People are allowed to spend their money however they want, I've always been tired to loving death of the years people spent posting "Don't preorder" and poo poo like that. I'm saying for me, and for a lot of other people, it looks, looks mind you, like a lovely scam to price alpha access at that level.

I'd be thrilled if it turned out not to be cause what they have working now looks like it could turn out pretty good. I don't and won't trust that it will until it has.

Orv fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Jul 11, 2021

Orv
May 4, 2011

RagnarokZ posted:

But you shouldn't pre-order, you should wait for reviews, you are essentially undermining a core principle of pro-consumerism, that we can make or break them with our spending.

This hasn't been true since there were like five hundred people buying mailed copies of shareware games. Too many people who will never watch a single review or ever once visit a game review website buy the years biggest games sight unseen. The MW2 boycott meme was staged but it is also is absolutely correct.


E: And to be clear, that sucks rear end. Companies that repeatedly make poo poo games should not get by on sheer numbers because they have X franchise that will always keep them afloat. But that's how it is, so pre-order games if you've done your due diligence (and it exists to be done, which is what people are saying about AoC here), you have the money and think you will enjoy it because that's literally all that matters, enjoy your hobby before the lights go out cause they're gonna.

Orv fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 11, 2021

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Orv
May 4, 2011

FrostyPox posted:

I mean in that case go nuts, dude.

It's just that so goddamn many kickstarter MMOs wind up being scams or, at best, complete garbage that it just boggles my mind that there's people who are like "Yeah I'll spend $500 on this unproven, untested, currently nonexistent game in a genre with a spotty-at-best track record", but if I was in your shoes I'd probably say "gently caress it" and do the same kind of thing

Yeah, pretty much agree with this entirely.

Sorry Ffycchi, that sucks beyond reason and I hope you can beat the median without it being too rough.

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