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Another AD thread about a Kickstarter sandboxy MMO. herewegoagain.jpeg
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May 5, 2017 03:31
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Pawn 17 posted:edit: The vanilla WoW cost over $75M in today's money to make. Vanilla WoW was also complete poo poo compared to most MMOs today and simply had the advantage of being one of the first to market.
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May 5, 2017 22:42
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Now I know reading every single word in a sentence is hard, but I believe in you. Like Zaodai said, "by modern standards" is the key word. MMOs that don't actually exist don't count, because they don't loving exist. I honestly can't believe I have to say this. Claiming that WoW was "well-made" ignores the disastrous launch (and several months there after) of being plagued by constant server crashes and game breaking bugs. That's not too mention that on release WoW virtually devoid of content outside of basic themepark grinding which was padded out by it's Korea-tier grind rates. Heck, it didn't even have proper PvP support until a year later. Even it's server capacity was something abysmally small like 1k or 2.5k (I don't remember exactly nor do I care enough to look up which one it was). If we compare the "bare-minimum" of what is expected from a modern MMO, WoW on release would have failed to meet nearly every standard.
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May 6, 2017 06:20
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Gumbel2Gumbel posted:Why is anyone comparing a game that launched in 2004 to modern standards. We were playing Grand Theft Auto Vice City on our Playstation 2's when it launched. Cause people were bringing up WoW's original game budget and I was pointing out that the number was largely irrelevant because although WoW was great for it's time, it's release version is trash by today's standards.
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May 7, 2017 00:40
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Kimsemus posted:It's also way a lot of AA survivors formed into BMW as well. We like to play seriously and have fun, but don't like all the drama. Fishing. Pact. *que laughter*
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May 19, 2017 05:50
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Zaodai posted:The problem with that is a bunch of 100 man servers tend to be expensive Only if made by people who don't know what the gently caress they're doing. If you're going to do sharded servers for an MMO you have an auto-scaling setup with AWS or someshit with a bunch of Docker containers for all the micro-shards. "super-responsiveness" has almost jackshit to do with server cost since you're bottleneck is networking latency, not CPU cycles, so you can jam a bunch of 100 man shards onto a single large EC2 instance whose cost is negligible if each shard has at least one $15 or something subscriber since you're down scaling instance amount and size based on peak. Like these are all problems that have been solved before, they just require a sufficient knowledge of technical know-how to implement which all of these companies clearly lack.
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May 26, 2017 03:40
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Zaodai posted:For action MMOs, 100 people on the same screen all doing anime teleport flip kicks in realtime would take up a fair amount of processing power to keep track of all of them while they're all interacting with each other. Not at all. Such computation costs are incredibly cheap CPU usage wise. Like literal microseconds cheap. The only thing CPU computations struggle with is physics simulation (for what god forsaken reason you would decided to do a serverside physic simulation is beyond me), but assuming you do, you can just grab an instance with a GPU attached (granted a bit more expensive), and offload the math to that. Again though, not CPU issue. The real issue is in the networking layer where a 100ms message is considered "average" and is already tens of thousands times slower than than whatever computation it carried. Zaodai posted:For it being "solved", nobody bothers to do it, suggesting it hasn't actually been solved suitably. I said it was possible to do cheaply, I never said it was easy. I actually said the opposite. The problem is that the game-dev industry has a massive brain-drain in terms development talent. Anyone who could setup such an infrastructure is either getting paid a dickton at Blizzard to stay at Blizzard (just using Blizz as an example here), a dickton literally in any other industry, or went small-time indie to make their own project and actively avoid projects like this like the plague. That being said, it's not like systems like this don't exist in the wild. Such infrastructure is basically the norm for any SaSS product outside of the industry. I know for a fact that Riot is using this to host games (except going the other way, rather than 10 Docker images of 100 players per instance, they have 100 images of 10 players per instance [the actual numbers idk, but it's likely somewhere in this range if not higher]).
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May 26, 2017 08:46
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Rad Russian posted:If Netflix can do it, so can a game where someone decides to dump $200mil (hah!) into designing a similar on demand server infrastructure in the cloud. So your local area has 100 players just like your favorite DayZ clone, where you go about your day with friends and fight in small action-packed engagements. Except you don't need to pay $200mil to design something that's already been designed. Unless what you meant $200 mil to maintain it, which is an equally stupid notion since your cost scales to usage so you don't need to worry about have a $200 maintance bill unless you actually have a Netflix size userbase. Rad Russian posted:The actual world is huge and has 10,000 players in it at the same time, and you load up next areas seamlessly as you go around and new instances are spun up on the fly. ONE DAY PEOPLE! Yeah, a game called Planetside 2 does that.
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May 27, 2017 00:43
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Ya'll care too much about random neckbeards on internet. Can we all just get back to talking about "totally not a scam mmo"? The whole "nodes" system seems pretty stupid tbh. It's basically a grindy content lock system that masquerades as reactivity. I'm not sure what it actually serves to add to the game. Sure, it might be fun building poo poo up the first time around. But either A) poo poo will never get torn down and therefore will just always be at max level making it no different than a static environment. B) poo poo will constantly get torn down making a massive tedious grind to rebuild everything. Like I can see this working if the world-state got reset in some way every few months like Crowfall/PotBs/HnH or if they had constant new servers that would be merged into an existing server like China. But at this point this just looks like standard themeparking with extra steps.
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Apr 13, 2020 19:40
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CoE was an obvious scam because they never demonstrated that the game actually works as an MMO as they never released anything outside of pre-rendered footage and tech demoes that had nothing to do with the game. The team they had working on the project (at least during the Kickstarter announcement) literally only had one programmer on it who hasn't actually ever been credited on an MMO. AoC at least has given some "influencers" hands on experience with an accelerated progression version of what is supposed to be the final game including dungeons. And I guess their random foray into making a BR does prove they're capable of making a multiplayer game that can support more than a dozen people. I'm not saying that AoC won't turn out to be a scam, but if it does, it's going to be a significantly more competent scam than CoE.
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Apr 21, 2020 11:43
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Only most of Alexander DeLarge's threads are for scam games that will never come out. Some of them are scam games that actually came out.
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Apr 21, 2020 19:28
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Ya'll literally giving your money to a guy who worked in a MLM (XanGo), made his money in real-estate, and has absolutely no prior game-dev experience. It would be one thing if he simply funded the project, but since he's admitted that all the design decisions are made by him, I'm very skeptical if this will actually play anywhere near as good as people are making it sound. Since he basically picked up the scraps from EQ Next who didn't take a well-paying job and his budgeting does seem somewhat reasonable, I'm confident that they will finish something that technically works as an MMO. I just doubt it will be a good one. To clarify, I'm not saying that it's a scam because he was involved in a MLM at some point when he was younger. We all make bad life decisions in our youth. I'm pointing out that the guy calling the shots has no qualifications to call the shots short of "I played MMOs for a while" and by that logic your manchild of an uncle should be qualified to coach his favorite sportsball team because he watched all their games. SweetBro fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jul 21, 2020 |
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Jul 21, 2020 03:35
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:like, why bother putting flying mounts in the game if only 10 people out of 10k are gonna even have them? spend the dev time doing anything else. "flying" is pretty much just a debug feature. Content development to support it is what would normally take up most of the time, but that's only an issue if you actually need to make content for it.
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Jul 21, 2020 08:43
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Len posted:A friend of mine has been hyping this game the last two days, Google tells me the head dev worked on EverQuest 2? Is that not right? It's right, but that's not the actual person in charge. The person in charge is Steven Sharif who has no game dev experience. The "President"/COO (John Moore) who also has no game dev (or COO experience) and pretty much just seems like he's straight out of a mid-low tier liberal arts school. Now having a token "President" is whatever. The concern is Steven Sharif who was the man responsible for bringing in this project together and has made it clear through numerous interviews that he's the one calling the shots here as far as design decisions go. So while the rest of the team are yes, in-fact ex-SOE people that he picked that will likely be able to successfully build his vision (it's why I'm not thread making GBS threads as hard here unlike other notable Kickstarter MMOs which I don't anticipate will be released due to no one involved knowing how to develop an MMO), I just have serious doubts whether his vision is actually one worth building. This appears less of "experienced dev team comes together to build a revolutionary MMO" and more of "rich kid pays SOE leftovers to make his dream MMO".
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Jul 22, 2020 00:45
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orcane posted:Let's lifetime pass the next Hey, say what you will but Age Of Conan is still a thing. And the combat was probably some of the best for any MMO in its time.
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Jul 23, 2020 03:00
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:It’s only a debug feature if you don’t care about how finished the terrain looks from flight. This exact thing is the reason why blizzard had to redo the old world for cataclysm. You can’t hand wave it away as “lol no clip” because that’s objectively not what it is. If everyone is stuck on the ground you get to cut some corners and make certain things not actually solid, since players can’t reach them, but now suddenly you have to do all that work because you want a couple of guys to feel special? If it’s supposed to be a pvp raid thing, you can still do that with just big monsters that the guilds can capture as a group and keep around for defending sieges. Yes, everything you said is mostly correct. Which is why I added the: SweetBro posted:but that's only an issue if you actually need to make content for it. No one is going to invest time in polishing or designing content for the 5 people who fly. They're gonna get to lord over the peasants, but they'll have to look like they're playing Gorgon Online or some poo poo while they're doing it. Let's face it, this the most practical approach to a stupid problem. Which going to be likely the actual approach experienced developers are going to take when appeasing the rich kid throwing money at them.
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Aug 1, 2020 07:28
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Killstick posted:This game is going to be a great test case for what the opposite of publisher interference looks like. Actually this is basically the distillation of publisher interference to its purest form. The guy with all the money is calling the shots regardless of whether or not they have any merit beyond his own preference.
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Aug 3, 2020 07:40
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a neurotic ai posted:10 years ago I would have thought this was the best poo poo ever. Ya'll overthinking this whole "shifting world" poo poo. In practice there now a few decaying progress meters that fill up when players grind poo poo, and a bunch of enemy spawns, quests, static visuals, and build plots that are disabled until said progress meters are filled up. They're just building a full MMO as usual and then just adding a bunch of grindy gamefied mutually exclusive content-gates. EVE is a bad comparison because EVE has never been a game about any of its mechanical systems. EVE's actual game content has always just been a backdrop for the Player - Player interactions. Which is why the overwhelming majority of its PvE is not denoted by the playerbase not by how fun or interesting it is, but it's efficacy in generating ISK, the risk for non-consensual PvP, and barrier to entry. Nobody in EVE rats, with the end goal of ratting faster.
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Aug 3, 2020 07:54
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Killstick posted:I meant more in the sense of the vision and the money residing in the same place instead of having to constantly fight the publishers market research team over the direction of the project. Whether that vision will lead to a good game or not I leave to each ones imagination. In that sense "true" indie games are a far better example. Mostly because, just because you have a vision doesn't mean that vision is actually good. Also you're pretty mistaken if you think developers fight publisher market research teams. That's not how it works. Generally speaking publishers have a portfolio of games that they would like to have at any given time. While that portfolio is commonly impacted by market research data it is not like a there's an active dialog with the developers about it. More often than not, developers themselves bend to to squeeze into a publisher's desired portfolio space to get the initial funding. The most common time where there is an active dialog with developers about this, is when the developer is failing up to live up to their end up of the bargain. But again, this is generally not done by the market researchers (it's just not their job), but is typically done by someone around the exec level.
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Aug 3, 2020 08:03
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If you think this game is going to attract a casual audience, you're pretty delusional. The population is going to be largely be sperglords who have too much time on their hands, with a rotating 30% population of core players who just wanna try something different before eventually moving onto something else. See for casual factors, I have something I call the Deskjob Test. It's an entirely meaningless based in no other proven facts. But since I've played MMOs for longer than some people who can now vote have been alive, and I've done some game design. It's clearly 100% infallible and the absolute arbiter of the TRUTH. The Deskjob Test is as following: Assuming you're working a boring deskjob where your supervisor doesn't really give a poo poo about what you do, but you generally need to step away 5-10 mins every hour or so do actual work. How playable is the multiplayer game? Then extending this rule. Assuming your work picked up and you couldn't play for a couple of weeks. How much was lost? On the supercasual side, we have mobile games like F/GO which have so little direct realtime interaction with others that they're basically singleplayer player. These kinds of games you can comfortably play at basically and deskjob. And outside of promotional events nothing is ever lost. On the hyperhardcore side you get games like HnH or Salem. Where not only is stepping away or being distracted likely to end with character death, the perma death and harsh PvP (and even PvE) ruleset can result in permanent loss large amounts of progression. Not playing for some time can lead to even greater losses. In the middle you actually get games like EVE, which while having certain aspects of the game that suffer from the hyperhardcore-levels of reprocussions. But you don't actually have to engage in them to play the game. I personally for played an entirely separate EVE game while I was working at uni on my alt accounts than on my main. Where on my alt accounts I just sat all, day-trading and speculating in Jira/Amarr while shitposting in chat and trying to scam people. So long as your assets are mostly liquid or something stable, taking a few weeks break doesn't hurt you (can actually benefit you if you accidentally crashed a market you're holding). Given the information we have so far, the game's direction does not seem to well suited for short, frequent, and immediate disruptions during play (due to open world pvp nature of the world and seemingly minimal gameplay options that don't expose you to it). Nor does it seem particularly palatable to infrequent but prolonged absences from the game (due to maintenance grinding requirements). Ergo, this game would absolutely not be playable for most people at their deskjob, and therefore likely not have any casual appeal.
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Aug 5, 2020 04:12
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Hy_C posted:Its hard to compare a game that's not out to one that is, but comparatively if AoC launches with what it states it will. Wouldn't you say crafting/maintaining your home plot be the draw in for casual players? I draw comparisons to BDO where you have folks who just do the crafting empire and not focus on the grinding/pvp aspect of the game? BDO is fundamentally different because it doesn't include non-consensual PvP (or at least, it's super easy to avoid). The reason why you can run a crafting empire like that is because so long as you don't get to the soft cap (55?) world pvp doesn't get enabled for you. Players can't influence you ourside of the market. You also don't necesarrily need to upkeep your crafting empire. I may be wrong (it's been a while since I played BDO) but there aren't massive maintance fees you constantly have to pay due to limited spaces since multiple players can "own" the same building. I would say that given my understanding of how the mechanics of the home plots work, not only are the buildings non-instanced (even apartments which are instanced are still tied to a non-instanced structure) meaning scarcity causes value to skyrocket meaning that the "tax rate" should be quite high (otherwise you get an ArchAge situation), but also since they're all vulnerable to destruction due to their "node system". Being away from a couple of weeks could mean coming back to the ruins of your house. Like in HnH and Salem. This is also pretty different from FFXIV where you basically have no risk of losing your house. hobocrunch posted:Can we just wait for the beta at least before typing up those type of posts. I'm not really on any side of the fence yet, the game is barely even a game yet, and right now it's literally just Steven speaking.
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Aug 6, 2020 03:51
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cmdrk posted:bear looks cool and good. ^ Game looks visually alright. A bunch of obvious bugs, but I won't hold bugs against a game in development.
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Aug 7, 2020 07:56
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Sachant posted:sounds like some bored millionaire ant colony game where he just wants a fantasy world in which to lord over everyone else with his hideous personally exclusive bear-butterfly mount. That's because it is.
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Aug 8, 2020 00:51
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People shitbashing Dugneon Finder while advocating for the presence of a casual playerbase in this game fundamentally misunderstand what casual players actually want in a game (or don't actually care, because rather than viewing casuals as a different segment of players with their own valid wants and desires they view them as a necessary evil NPCs for them, "the hardcore gamerz", the real protagonists to lord over). Which ironically enough is exactly the kind of player this game is made to appeal too, and is also exactly why none of the design decisions will actually ever attract a casual player base.
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Aug 10, 2020 00:24
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Because all indicators point to it actually being made as opposed to basically every other Kickstarter MMO that is just in a perpetual state of alpha for 5+ years.
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Aug 10, 2020 00:42
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Common complaints about dungeon finder are less of a dungeon finder issue and mostly an adage of the usual: "Given the opportunity players will optimize the fun out of anything." Even though SWTOR had a dungeon finder on release, the instances experience was far better than even pre-dungeon finder WoW, since there was no wiki to guide people through the dungeon, we bashed our heads and worked together to figure out dungeon mechanics even if it meant wiping on the same boss for hours on end. I suspect that even if modern games were to remove features like dungeon finder, the sterility of PUGs wouldn't change. The only thing that would change is that most people would stop running low-level dungeons with PUGs, and that at higher levels you'll just be thrown a link to the wiki and be told to read-it before being booted from the group, since by that point you're invested enough in the game that you're expected to at least skim a guide. You know, like how it was with WoW right before the DF got introduced. Which mind you, WoW was still the best case environment for a DF free world due to its massive player count. Pretty much any other game had introduced solo mode for lower level dungeons since it was basically impossible to find a group for them. You find people with this unforgiving "you should already know what you're supposed to be doing even if its your first time" attitude in basically every multiplayer game (especially the competitive ones) with their so 'helpful advice' being "go read a guide" or "go watch a youtube video". DF is just accelerated the poo poo that was happening in MMO communities, but it also brought a lot upsides. Primarily being able to engage people who would normally not even bother doing dungeons because they found the prospect of finding a party too tedious and/or were not interested in the rewards from said dungeons by removing that barrier to entry.
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Aug 10, 2020 10:58
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Hy_C posted:I feel that all the studios with large figureheads resemble that like Blizzard with Metzen. My.com is Russian right?
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Aug 11, 2020 06:32
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And I'm sure like every other MMO that came before and tried this, there will be a lot "punished" sperglord alts around.
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Aug 25, 2020 05:57
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Cardboard Fox posted:This is probably the best video they've shown so far, but I'm still not seeing the main draw. It just looks like an Alpha Guild Wars 2. They're not. Cause tertiary gameplay loops are hard to showcase even when they are well though out and showed off well. It's why games that tend to strongly rely on them like grand strategy games tend to have massive CG trailers with basically no gameplay. And I'm very skeptical about the whole node system as a whole being anything special. Everything we know about it so far basically describes it as "these quests are locked off until this gradually depleting bar is filled up to X amount." Like the only MMO with a tertiary gameplay loop that actually sounds innovative that's in development that I know of is Crowfall with the whole "constantly resetting world" thing that was somewhat courted by a few games like PoTBS and HnH, but unfortunately that game seems to be completely hampered by garbage grade primary gameplay loops. This, this at least from the trailers seems to have at least a mediocre primary gameplay loop (certainly no Black Desert or Blade & Soul), but it's tertiary loop doesn't seem to be very promising which is kind a problem given how much they've been banking on it. SweetBro fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 14:39
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Piss the off with making GBS threads on ADL. Yeah, the bloke's love for lovely MMOs is at this point an actual meme but insulting a guy for for reveling in the trash he loves is cringy AF and reeks of an insecure manbaby.
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Jun 22, 2021 03:09
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Just further proof that EVE goons are the lowest tier of goons. They need their own containment zone. Biowarfare posted:actual question, is AoC happening or another KS scam?
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Jun 23, 2021 11:23
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