Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2: Obviously

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Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

A Good Film. I didn't have high expectations, so maybe that helped.

Enjoyed the poo poo out of the fact that randomly Sylvester Stallone, Michelle Yeoh, Ving Rhames, and David Hasselhoff are all in this movie, and Hasselhoff is the actually important one.

And a couple of things on the during-credits scenes; I don't know the character very well, but since I know he's involved in all the Infinity Gems stuff, I presume the guy the Sovereign were building at the end is Adam Warlock?

And I'm really shocked one of the credits scenes wasn't an Avenger or two showing up to deal with the aftermath on Earth, and doing a "Huh we'll have to look into this poo poo going down in space I guess" bit.

# ¿ May 1, 2017 22:08

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 15:58

Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

Lord_Magmar posted:

In general I think this movie managed to do emotion really well, compared to some of the other Marvel Movies. But that might just be me caring more about these characters.

I actually ended up giving a poo poo about Yondu's death and the Ravagers turning up for his funeral. Part of it I'm sure was that it was all very pretty, but still, I felt genuinely moved for a guy who's basically a comedy sidekick.

# ¿ May 2, 2017 17:10

Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

There is. Sex is uncomfortable and disruptive in the movie's universe, and it threatens all life in the galaxy.

I'm not sure that works, for a couple of reasons; to start off with the other big antagonists of the film are all about not having sex. And when at the end they double-down on the whole "Kill those jerks" bit, it's through a further exultation of non-sex procreation. Back on the main plot, if sex and procreation are bad, then the revelation of Ego's killing of all his kids wouldn't be portrayed as as much of a horrifying act that it is.

It's more reasonable to point this all towards the various family-related film thoughts. Sex isn't portrayed as bad, it's treating family, whether that's biological or not, badly that's the driving force here, especially so as to satisfy one's own desires. Ego having huge amounts of kids isn't bad; Ego having huge amounts of kids and then killing them to further himself is bad. It's the abandonment, even destruction, of family and family ties that threatens the galaxy. Think too of the point on which the movie turns; it's not Ego revealing he's Quill's father, or revealing he had lots of kids, it's Ego revealing that he killed Quill's mother rather than risk that tie preventing him from his ultimate goal. And the Big Cave of Dead Kids just before that.

# ¿ May 9, 2017 17:36

Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

This is where you need to grab the subtext by the balls and notice what is the source of fear is - it's the father's promiscuity. He has other children and families. The irony is this is that despite the big statement about how it's okay to be special, the movie embraces the fear of not being special.

Nah, that doesn't work - again, note the point at which the plot turns. It's not Ego revealing his promiscuity; if it was, we wouldn't need Dead Kid Cave, or his revelation about his personal hand in Meredith's death. Dead Kid Cave prepares the immediate oncoming shock; killing Quill's mother is the hit, both to Quill and to the audience, if the various people talking about gasps from the cinema at that point are to be any judge of its effectiveness. Too, Ego's end goal is about as opposite promiscuity and sex and procreation as possible.

Promiscuity as a source of fear, on the other hand, doesn't work as subtext; Quill would love to have more biological family, that's his whole interest for the first half of the film. And once again, the other big villains of the film are a natural counter - they've eliminated promiscuity from their society entirely.

Also I would've said that the movie did the exact opposite of embracing the fear of not being special. Ego, the villain, is driven by that fear. The Sovereign, villains, are driven by that fear. Quill triumphs when he give up something that makes him special. You can even dig down into the Gamora/Nebula plot and see that Nebula, who had very good reason to fear not being special, ends up being able to move past that, cementing a turn to the good guys in the process.

# ¿ May 9, 2017 18:38

Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Ego killing Star-Lord's mother is really just effective as a swerve, otherwise you're just reiterating my own points - the father has a skeleton full of closets, he has other women and other children. These are all things that children fear. It's not very effective, so people focus on the gasp and shock of that swerve.

That Ego has his unknown Dead Kid Cave secret isn't your points, that's the text of the film. The point you made that I was addressing was your belief that "Sex is uncomfortable and disruptive in the movie's universe, and it threatens all life in the galaxy.", and later on, "what is the source of fear is - it's the father's promiscuity." Both ideas are actively disagreed with by both text and subtext of the film. Both two big villains have eliminated, or seek to eliminate, promiscuity and sex, and thwart procreation, either before it happens or after.

Your point that children fear those things could work very well, on the other hand... except that the typical sources for that fear don't work in this instance. Fear that promiscuity might lead to a father leaving his family? That's already happened for Quill. Fear of negative repercussions for the family? Also already happened. Children can fear promiscuity in parents, but Quill, specifically, doesn't have a reason to. The opposite, in fact - promiscuity on the part of his dad means he has a bigger family, and that's his goal. On a more comedic level you could even point out that Quill's dad being promiscuous means he's less likely to pass judgment on Quill in turn for stuff like hitting on the Sovereign's leader, or the whole blacklight bit from the first film. Really, promiscuous Ego is a win-win for Quill. It's familicidal Ego that's the problem.

quote:

And Ego's end goal is again mixed metaphors like I mentioned - he's both an evil father and an invasive species that threatens to overtake all other life. What's also being ignored that it's not very asexual at all, what with all the liquid gushing through narrow avenues.

The metaphors actually end up working pretty well together; Ego's fatherhood isn't portrayed as negative, and to the contrary, when he's "dad Ego" he gets portrayed well. It's his rejection of fatherhood for the mantle of invasive species that's the problem. His abandonment of one role for another highlights the difference between the two concepts.

And to my memory liquid doesn't gush down any narrow avenues. It erupts from outside the... gas station? Diner? and from then on just kinda grows upwards and out, and down big broad streets. Lots of open spaces.

# ¿ May 9, 2017 19:32

Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

MisterBibs posted:

I figured the scene that identified Ego the best was when he screamed something like "I will never again be alone!". Dude is inherently afraid of that, and it would ultimately ruin his plan: even if he succeeded, it'd be precisely what he didn't want.

Speaking of, one thing that didn't make sense to me was he's a big music fan, but he's happy to kill off any artist but himself?

# ¿ May 9, 2017 19:33

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 15:58

Revenant Threshold: Jan 1, 2008

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Sex is a disruptive element in the movie - a huge, all-consuming and growing thing that in GotG2 threatens families and life (a tumour is what kills Meredith Quill). Victory is achieved by cleasing the infectious organism. Chaste or family-like embraces represent the height of healthy love in the movies.

I don't want to kinkshame, but if tumours are involved in sex for you, I think you may be doing something wrong.

Seriously, though; it's not sex that's a "huge, all-consuming and growing thing" that provides a threat. Quite the opposite; the literal, textual example is Ego self-propagating, and destroying the good that came from sex in order to do so. On the emotional level, same thing; Ego's huge quest that consumes him utterly leads him to murder his own family, not sex. And that itself can be presented only a bad thing when the results of sex - his children's existence - is presented as a good thing. And again, with the whole "chaste" thing - the Sovereign are chaste, double-down on their chastity as they double-down on their villainy, and they are not portrayed as an example of "healthy love", let alone the height of it.

Victory is achieved by cleansing the infectious organism - that part is quite correct. Nothing to do with sex, though.

quote:

It's mixed metaphors, since abusive fathers and existential threats are intimidating for largely opposite reasons.

No, not really. To go back to what you were talking about before with childhood fears, an abusive parent can be just as much a threat to life, just as much an unknown, just as much a power beyond any possible defense, and just as much a threat that seems to take over the entire existence of the intimidated. And to take it down to the specific example, the threat of the abusive father and the threat of the existential threat are the same; death, and usage to further Ego. The metaphors work pretty well together, both generally and in the specific.

Revenant Threshold fucked around with this message at 20:39 on May 9, 2017

# ¿ May 9, 2017 20:37

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