Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2: Obviously

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2: Obviously

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

I mean, you can call anything shallow and surface-level. It didn't stop me from crying during a loving Marvel movie.

I lost my dad a couple years back, and a heartbreaking A-plot about fathers and sons was not what I was expecting.

# ¿ May 8, 2017 02:01

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 06:14

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

A character's relationship with their "toxic masculinity" (for some reason people are really proud of this clumsy synonym for machismo)

Because machismo isn't usually seen as negative, or having negative effects on men, and toxic masculinity speaks both to the damage it can do to others, as well as the damage it does to men.

But people attack new terms that are descriptive of existing phenomena if use of those threaten comfortable but damaging norms, so now PTSD triggers are a punchline all over the internet. People also invent new terms for better, existing ones to make them sound selfish, so now civil rights are identity politics.

The linguistic battle for our collective soul is real.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2017 20:03

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Real stupid, perhaps.

Instead of speaking and thinking in terms of patriarchal ideology (terms that have been around for decades at the least), you've taken the language of pop psychology and cultivated a fantasy about infectious toxins. And now you're living in a zombie movie.

You engage in 'linguistic battle' by dispensing with truth and accuracy in favour of expediency. Your goal is to 'win' the political argument as quickly and easily as possible, ends justifying the means, by depoliticizing it - by simply labelling the troublesome threat a biohazard.

Are...

Are you projecting, or something?

Edit: Also, a large percentage of the population thinking I should be dead for what I am is not a "political argument," and neither is talking about one of the causes of that viewpoint.

LividLiquid fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Sep 3, 2017

# ¿ Sep 3, 2017 22:38

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

I said none of those things, so I'm not sure how to respond. I remarked that identity politics as a term is an attempt to make civil rights sound worse. They're literally the same thing.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2017 23:57

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Well no, that's just an equivocation.

Congrats on falling for the latest bullshit republican reframing. Next, would you care to tell me all about about virtue signaling and cultural marxism?

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Egalitarianism is a term from the 1800s.
Ideology is 1800s, popularized early 1900s.
Biopolitics is from 1905.
Etc.

'Toxic Masculinity' is a recent perjorative rewording of 'hegemonic masculinity' (a term from 1987), that omits/erases the concept of hegemony for some reason. The first hit on Google is the Geek Feminism Wiki, discussing videogame protagonists. Google Trends says it exploded in popularity around 2015. I haven't been able to find a source from earlier than 2014.

Ok, so new, better descriptors of existing phenomena are only valid if they're old. Got it.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2017 20:29

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

How are identity politics and civil rights describing the same thing?

Because when I say I shouldn't be murdered for being queer, people tell me to stop talking about identity politics.

It's the same bullshit that was thrown at pro-Civil Rights people in the 60s to suppress dissent with a new coat of paint, because that's how people do.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2017 17:18

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# ¿ May 11, 2024 06:14

LividLiquid: Apr 13, 2002

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

I like toxic masculinity because it's a middle class concept that basically demands a blanket condemnation of the working classes.

Case in point, the group representing "toxic masculinity" is Yondu's crew, a bunch of proletarian freaks who all die in favour of the self-pitying ones.

I few people tried really hard to get us off this by doing the exact right thing: recognizing that I was getting nowhere with SMG, and talking about something else.

Follow suit.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2017 08:24

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2: Obviously