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Mister Adequate posted:Wow it's EXACTLY like us Remainers were saying all along. Umm, I think you'll find we're actually remoaners, and we probably hijacked the talks to make the Prime Minister sound like a horrifically out-of-her-depth buffoon purely so we can smugly say "I told you so" to the real patriots who should hang us as traitors to God, King & Country once we're out of the dastardly cultural Marxist cult that is the ECHR.
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May 1, 2017 00:46
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jBrereton posted:Yeah I'm saying I have some paper ones, they are presumably not usable anymore right? Down south? No idea. But up here, I've definitely had one fiver accepted in the past 3 or 4 months, maybe more. They are definitely not common any more but I think you should be able to still use them. I was meant to quote this and then edit into the previous post but I forgot. Oh well.
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May 1, 2017 00:48
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Pissflaps posted:He's on of those old fashioned politicians who thinks that being able to form a government is important. And the way to do this is by pointing out factional differences in the middle of a general election campaign? That doesn't sound like a good way to win an election. There's a time and a place for Labour members to have a reasonable and free discussion on the merits of the leader. That ended the minute the PM called for a snap election. Assuming quite reasonably that Labour won't win, we can go back to those discussions the day the results are announced. But of course Tony is on the record as preferring a left-lead Labour Party to lose so of course he'd work against it during an election campaign.
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May 1, 2017 11:10
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Namtab posted:I feel that performing a citizen's arrest on Blair would probably get me actual arrested Martyrdom is an effective political tool, don't write it off completely.
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May 1, 2017 11:11
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https://twitter.com/TelegraphNews/status/858750626058035200 Have some Peak Lib Dem
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May 1, 2017 11:25
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Intrinsic Field Marshal posted:I thought I would share some spicy Karl Marx Quotes since its May Day but its bound to upset some people so I wont Yes, the UK Marxism Thread will be outraged by Marx quotes Oh, of course you pick up antisemitic quotes. How clever.
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May 1, 2017 14:55
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Lord of the Llamas posted:https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/859078057218506753 This is good for humanity though
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May 1, 2017 17:25
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jabby posted:The latest ICM poll aptly demonstrates why subsample questions should be taken with several tonnes of salt. More people say the last two weeks have made them less likely to vote Labour than more likely. The opposite is true for voting Tory. However the Tories lost a point in voting intention and Labour gained. With the possible exception of headline voting intention it's all bullshit because people will choose the answer that reflects best on their chosen party. Mate, I dunno how you keep not getting the memo but there is no hope, the Tories will win the election so just stop.
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May 2, 2017 17:33
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jabby posted:That does look very likely, although I'm not sure what it has to do with me thinking partisanship inherently ruins the utility of certain polling questions. It was more about how you try to excuse every gently caress up that the Labour front bench makes, like clockwork. I dunno, the election just isn't very interesting to me, you're right. It's more of the same, further proof that the British public are too poorly informed to be trusted with electing representatives in their best interests, and too complacent & disengaged to put the work in themselves (see Pissflaps regular proclamations that asking more of him than to put an X in a box come election time for one example). Better to just enjoy the horrifically dumb poo poo like that pillock cutting up his Labour membership because the NEC are going to investigate if a dodgy racist Twitter account belongs to a candidate or not safe in the knowledge that none of this actually matters. Which sounds more defeatist than I actually am, I firmly believe that a better world is possible, just not in the foreseeable future and certainly it won't come through the ballot box. You're not changing attitudes without improving education, encourage and improve skills like the ability to critically absorb and judge the worth of sources, and strengthen class consciousness.
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May 2, 2017 20:43
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MikeCrotch posted:Forkboy mate, you seem a bit depressed.
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May 2, 2017 21:10
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jabby posted:Well, a) I quite like most of the Labour front bench and it annoys me to see the decent politicians get attacked for poo poo that Doesn't Actually Matter, and b) in the post you quoted I was making a general comment about political polls that wasn't specific to Labour or the front bench. I'd counter that actually believing that actual socialist reform could occur in our current political climate is far more mad than going "hurr hurr, hope is a lie" but what do I know? Anyway, you seem to have missed the "sounds more defeatist than I actually am" part of my post, by making the mistake of thinking that the only way politics happens is at Westminster. At this point I really don't see how a revolutionary, syndicalist road to socialism is more absurd than a parliamentary route.
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May 2, 2017 21:22
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OwlFancier posted:And I would suggest that because we live in a nominal democracy, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future, it is a bit silly to restrict the use of the political axis across the actual major political participants because they're all, relatively speaking, in the middle of the axis if you extend the axis to include libertarian dystopia-turned-effective-monarchy and revolutionary anarcho communist syndicalist free association utopia. But this is the sort of dumb perspective that ends up with extreme ideologies like monetarism being normalised into the mainstream as the new centrism, and ends up with moderate ideologies like Corbyn's being painted as extreme. There is no way this is positive or helpful. Sure, I might think it'd be great if Jeremy was calling for a new wave of syndicalism to hit the nation, but my views are quite outwith the norm. Corbyn's aren't (aside from on defence). What's the value in pretending they are?
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May 2, 2017 21:32
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TheRat posted:I quite like this Ed Miliband lad, he seems to have a healthy touch of humour Ed, get a petrol powered lawnmower for goodness sake.
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May 2, 2017 22:47
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TheRat posted:It's not his, he's mowing the lawn for a lady he met while canvassing. He should have bought her a petrol lawnmower then. That whole teach a man to fish thing.
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May 2, 2017 22:50
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serious gaylord posted:Can someone explain what was wrong with this post please? The poo poo gimmick mod said in Europol "lemondrizzle has to include a picture of stalin every time he posts in this thread from now on or i'm probating him", which lemondrizzle did for a bit. And then he got probated for not doing it in this thread. Which isn't Europol. Haha, isn't it funny how arbitrary our Maoist mod is? (The answer is no)
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May 3, 2017 10:02
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Oberleutnant posted:All aboard the gently caress train toot toot! It's because it's a poo poo paper
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May 3, 2017 11:53
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Oberleutnant posted:Well yes, you're right, but I don't recall them openly and explicitly addressing their content towards tories in the past. I dunno, feels like it's been going that way for 3 years least. It's gotten noticeably worse since Rusbridger left as Editor. Talking of guff newspapers, went to Glasgow on Monday for a gig & picked up a Morning Star to read on the train. I like a lot of things about it, the focus on industrial news is good and a nice change from gushing over Kim Kardashian or whatever, but they get really embarrassing when they started chatting about the protests in Venezuela. The insistence of a large section of the left in refusing to accept that ostensibly left wing regimes can go bad and do lovely things is an eternal frustration. poo poo is hosed in Venezuela, Maduro has been a bad leader, poverty has increased in the country, you don't have to instinctively defend him. But I suppose old habits die hard when you're from the party that split off from the CPGB because they were too reformist. Pochoclo posted:Just shaking my head at people that can't appreciate the beauty of a nice handcrafted leather belt. Seems a bit excessive when you're just looking for something to hang yourself with while going for a chokewank.
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May 3, 2017 13:29
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MikeCrotch posted:Just tried looking up the history of the various communist parties in Great Britain and There is nothing that the far left does better than split over seemingly pointless doctrinal or organisational points (which might matter if the left was to take power but until then seems utterly futile). Lenin obviously has a lot of blame to take on that front, though clearly that dumb attitude predated him and the RSDRP split and is ingrained in Marxism really. It's not at all helpful. ronya posted:my entirely anecdotal impression is that the Western left news coverage of Venezuela was thawing for a bit, and then immediately froze over again after the narrow Ecuador election It is a bit weird that we end up so fixated on the Latin American left. Probably something to do with Cuba, and the general idea of it being fun to have leftist regimes in the backyard of the Yanks, because history proves that few things annoy them more, & there's nothing that particularly part of the left love more than poo poo that annoys America, whether it's good or not. As for Kerala or West Bengal, it's hard for people to remember that a state like Kerala has a higher population than all but 9 European countries. West Bengal has a population higher than all of Europe except Russia. So it just gets ignored as regional politics rather than national. Plus I think generally we Brits are pretty bad at understanding federations and just how much independence states have within them.
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May 3, 2017 15:18
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bessantj posted:I don't think I could stand the cultural appropriation I would be perpetrating. You're a goon, you can't appropriate from a cultural group you are a part of. The utilikilt is yours!
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May 3, 2017 15:19
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Bobstar posted:And don't speak English to each other I guess? Yeah, I don't know all the details, but my brother-in-law is Chilean, but he's descended from Spanish Jews and went through the rigamarole of proving that so he could get the benefits of being an EU citizen. He & my sister were able to live in Dublin together before he could claim Spanish citizenship, but I think they are planning on moving back to Scotland at some point soon now she's finished her Masters there. And then Brexit happened so ho boy. But yeah, they had to make more than one trip to Spain with a bunch of documents, but he's a Spanish citizen now despite having never lived there, which was cool. Honestly, the idea you can't live & work with your spouse in the country you were born in is hosed up. I always hated the anti-immigrant citizen, but seeing how it directly impacted my family (dude is a loving qualified architect or something like that, he's not going to be stealing a job from a Brit or however the idiots like to put it) sure brought home the shittiness a lot more clearly. Borders are trash.
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May 3, 2017 20:50
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Pluskut Tukker posted:The problem is that British citizens need to meet a minimum income threshold of £18,600 a year in order for their non-EU spouses to be allowed to join them. EU citizens moving to Britain on the other hand do not have that requirement thanks to a ruling by the ECJ, which in the Carpenter ruling created a right to family life as part of the free movement rights. So it's more difficult for Brits staying in Britain to bring a non-EU spouse into the country than it is for EU immigrants. This is likely to be yet another point of contention in the Brexit negotiations since the EU very much wants its citizens living in Britain to keep those rights, and May, well, you know.... There's a loving easy solution to this unfairness, which is to allow non-EU spouses to have exactly the same rights as EU spouses, but this country is racing to the bottom so nah, out the window.
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May 3, 2017 21:29
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LemonDrizzle posted:This is, in fact, May's plan! Well yes, clearly I meant "treat them all humanely" rather than "treat them as animals unless they are rich". Remember when Theresa May campaigned to remain in the EU? Fun times.
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May 3, 2017 21:33
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Jack2142 posted:Prince Charles has been disinherited for shits and giggles and the Queen is abdicating in favor of Prince George. Sadly it's probably something unimportant like Randy Andy being caught up in dodgy arms sales to horrifically brutal & oppressive Middle Eastern regimes again. Lord of the Llamas posted:It's a loving stupid idea. Our best-in-the-world negotiators are playing 11th dimensional chess, have some faith in glorious Britannia. learnincurve posted:I like Philip Nah mate, Phil The Greek is a racist piece of royal poo poo.
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May 4, 2017 09:24
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he's the nation's slightly racist old grandpa being forced to go to places he really does not want to be by his wife, so is getting as much entertainment value out of it as possible by taking the piss in the full knowage that she cant yell at him for it in public.
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Igiari posted:I'd appreciate it if you voted for your local Labour candidate, instead. I'm going to vote for my local Green, Labour, independent & maybe SNP candidates today. STV is great.
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May 4, 2017 09:45
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Kurtofan posted:think of all the incubators and body armor you could have had instead of your communist voting system The thoughts of all those dead soldier babies is all that gets me up in the morning.
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May 4, 2017 09:52
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Pissflaps posted:Just voted Lib Dem Good for you, finding your political home.
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May 4, 2017 12:17
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JFairfax posted:lol just lol if u didn't leave the country when cameron got in first time around If you're wealthy enough to gently caress off at the election of a Tory you're probably not likely to get hosed that badly by them. big scary monsters posted:FYI you do NOT get a sticker when voting this time around. It's barely even worth bothering. I've never gotten a sticker for voting. Surely this isn't actually a thing in the UK?
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May 4, 2017 15:22
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awesome-express posted:So um, after 1.9 years of legal back and forths, one appeal, and countless thousands of pounds spent, I have apparently just been granted UK citizenship. Just got off the phone with my lawyer. This dirty EU person is now allowed to legally moan about the weather and complain about everything. Congrats I guess. I was considering saying condolences but I suppose that's a bit glib after you put so much time into being sure you can stay here! Now that you can vote, do your best to punt Tories to the curb and maybe one day this country of ours won't be a burning bin full of poo poo. Sapozhnik posted:Socially and economically progressive ideals are at least gaining some traction in the US after the latest result shocked a bunch of people out of complacency, and the Dems only lost very narrowly despite being a bunch of horribly corrupt pro-Wall Street fucks and generally doing absolutely everything wrong throughout the entire campaign. It's a miracle they lost as narrowly as they did. I genuinely see no reasons to be optimistic looking at America. It's worse than us. Sure, the NHS will be sold off piecemeal, but until it is we've still got a much better healthcare system than the ones that the Yanks are already trying to scrap in favour of something even shittier. And reforming the Democrats away from lovely third way Wall Street shills will be a task even more mammoth than reform the Labour Party. I mean, good luck and all that but America is going to the dogs and probably the only saving grace is if you're moving to a more liberal state, because of their federal system. And even then, a state like Washington which is regarded as pretty liberal doesn't have an income tax, most of it's revenue comes from regressive sales taxes. Britain is sliding into dystopia but America will get there first, rest assured. As usual, we're just copying them.
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May 4, 2017 18:03
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Lord of the Llamas posted:You disagree? There's a good argument that it cost Clinton the election. Why would you think Bernie would've been in a worse situation otherwise than Clinton? Because the neoliberals would have all gone for Trump or something? Saying "Bernie would have won" is funny because it makes mad Hilary cultists combust with rage but other than that, it's just huge question marks. It'd have been a very different election, Bernie had a problem reaching out to a lot of minority voters, so maybe he does better in West Virginia & Michigan but does worse in somewhere like North Carolina, but without knowing what dirt they'd have run against him it's actually impossible to say. Clinton had a lovely campaign, but the odds are that Sanders, to win, would have had to try & work within the Democratic Party, but you have to ask if the Democratic Party would have been willing to campaign & work with him. Just too many questions.
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May 4, 2017 18:21
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Alchenar posted:Even making the statement straight up handwaves away the fact that Bernie and Clinton had a contest and Clinton won handily. Can't really agree with that big leap in logic, could well be that Bernie had an easier time beating Trump than Clinton in a populist, anti-establishment year, due to not having been a key figure in his party for years, & not having been a Secretary of State, & not having a spouse who has already been President. Being able to win the Democratic primary doesn't actually mean you're the best person to win the general. As for the counterfactual, eh. If a contested convention is actually that big a problem then your campaign has far bigger problems than that. Like her campaign staff, the idiots who decided she didn't even need to bother visiting Wisconsin, & so on, so forth. Clinton didn't bail out in 2008 until after Obama got over the required number of delegates, why on earth would Sanders be expected to do the same? Anyway, this is the wrong thread for rehashing the US election. This is the thread where we revel in the abject misery of the 2017 UK general election. Pissflaps posted:Across the river tees. Do you not just have a footbridge to get across the Tees? forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 4, 2017 |
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May 4, 2017 18:56
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TinTower posted:You're not far south enough to qualify for central government funding for a tram line. When you want a job done badly, you bring in Chris Grayling.
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May 4, 2017 19:11
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TheRat posted:I bring gifts from America: Oh wow. That's funny but also not funny at all.
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May 4, 2017 20:44
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TheRat posted:I have a very important update: I really want to know where leon trotsky 2012 thinks the poverty line is. $100k?
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May 4, 2017 21:22
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Jack2142 posted:Who are the UK, Kulaks and how should they be executed? Landlords, guillotine.
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May 4, 2017 21:49
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GaussianCopula posted:Because your ideology/policies are not supported by a majority of the population? You Nazi oval office. gently caress off Tried putting on the results program but can't manage to give a shite until we start getting Scottish results in. Sorry England and Wales, your election results are too depressing to watch.
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May 5, 2017 09:23
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Paul.Power posted:I'm not going to call them great, but the Wales results could have been a whole lot worse. At this point 3 Welsh Labour councillors will be judged as "could have been worse". Obviously there are problems much deeper than the leader, but if these results are repeated in June then we're going to have another leadership election and the Tories will get on with loving everyone poorer than them.
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May 5, 2017 09:34
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Jose posted:Yvette cooper is definitely going to get people voting labour Yvette Cooper would have been a poor leader who'd refuse to tackle the Tories but we'd not be set for annual leadership elections and Labour wouldn't have a leader with next to no PLP support. Which is a thing that matters unfortunately.
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May 5, 2017 09:54
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Serotonin posted:Violent revolution is the only solution Agreed. Well, doesn't have to be totally violent, but it's certainly a useful weapon to have in the back pocket. Don't rule out the power of a strike. We should do more to make syndicalism a thing again in the 21st century. GaussianCopula posted:Did he get 40 glasses of jam from the neoliberal cabal to destroy Labour? gently caress off Nazi. Doctor_Fruitbat posted:This feels like the inevitable end result of a nation with an empire-shaped stick still wedged three feet up its arsehole. Where America has temporarily embarrassed millionaires, we have temporarily embarrassed lords, who frustratedly expect things to be done by someone else as if by magic and only want to engage in politics as much as necessary to shout down anyone making life difficult with things like nuance, compromise and collective responsibility. Nah, this is a misreading of the country. It's not that they are temporarily embarrassed lords, it's that they are just terrified of change. Any change, even change for the good is bad because change is dirty word to a majority of this country right now. It's not that they think they will one day be part of the aristocracy so much as just the peasants recognising their place. DesperateDan posted:No idea how though, and of course organising such thoughts and efforts becomes quickly problematic what with rapidly getting arrested for plotting the violent overthrow of the state, but I'm keen, mind. Well, there's pre-existing organisations which have large memberships but often don't have great turnout at internal elections. Trade unions. You don't start with a violent revolution. You start with a strike. Which becomes an illegal general strike. And then you go from there. (Hi GCHQ) Ewan posted:It's ok the saviour is here
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May 5, 2017 10:06
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TACD posted:Corbyn's policies have always been popular, it's his character that gets attacked. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people don't really know what his policies are. Policies don't matter when it comes to winning elections though. Or rather they do but only if they can be turned into a overly simplistic soundbite to be repeated on the telly news for the rest of the day. People are obsessed with the idea of a strong leader.
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May 5, 2017 10:07
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Ewan posted:maybe less of the violent revolution wank fantasies though please More people coming to accept that extra-parliamentary paths to socialism are the only viable paths is a good thing.
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May 5, 2017 10:15
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