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So recently I was reading this book called Frank Miller's Daredevil and the Ends of Heroism. Towards the start of it, Miller is quoted as saying: "All my reservations about the character are in how he talks 'cause his visual is still very confident, and very strong - it's just that he never stops whining." "I don't believe that Spider-Man would last two weeks [as a crime fighter] the way he's conceived. In order to have power over the criminals, you would have to be that rotten; [criminals] would have to accept him as almost one of them... Daredevil has to reach the point where when he walks into a room. they're terrified of him. because he has to be accepted as a force they'll respect. That isn't done much in comic books; it's around in other kinds of fiction. I'm more comfortable with that; I don't see him as being happy go lucky when he's up against a bunch of guys with guns." Later that day I learned of this Runaways TV show which reminded me of how Whedon put The Punisher in his comic because he simply hates the character and wanted an excuse to beat him up. And on the topic of Punisher, one of his most famous writers, Garth Ennis, is infamous for putting in characters just so Frank could kick the crap out of them. All this got me wondering - what comic book writers are known to have a problem with certain characters so they mistreat them either in terms of characterization or power level or that kind of thing?
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May 4, 2017 11:56
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NikkolasKing posted:So recently I was reading this book called Frank Miller's Daredevil and the Ends of Heroism. Towards the start of it, Miller is quoted as saying: Ennis dislikes superheroes in general, with the exception of Superman, who he has always had a soft spot for. But I have to ask -- how is that book? Believe it or not, I just found out it existed yesterday and requested it as an interlibrary loan.
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May 4, 2017 13:43
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Ennis dislikes superheroes in general, with the exception of Superman, who he has always had a soft spot for. I enjoyed it a lot. I'm not a DD fan really but it touches a lot on everything Miller I'm reading The Dark Knight Returns for the first time and figured knowing more about the...well, interesting character that wrote it would help me further appreciate the classic piece of comic lit. If you're interested, I snipped out all the parts I found most interesting from the book: Notably not included in this were the chapter on the "Big Three" of Kingpin, Elektra and Bullseye, as well as a chapter on the art and its importance. Those things interested me less than the rest of it which covered Miller's idea of individual superheroes and what it means to be a superhero in and of itself
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May 4, 2017 13:54
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NikkolasKing posted:I enjoyed it a lot. I'm not a DD fan really but it touches a lot on everything Miller I'm reading The Dark Knight Returns for the first time and figured knowing more about the...well, interesting character that wrote it would help me further appreciate the classic piece of comic lit. Thank you! I appreciate it. I still hope to get my hands on the book, to cite it for an article I'm writing.
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May 4, 2017 15:09
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John Byrne was very protective of Doctor Doom during his run on FF, and during it he retconned a number of Doom appearances in other books at the time as being Doombots (particularly if Doom had been defeated).
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May 4, 2017 17:19
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irlZaphod posted:John Byrne was very protective of Doctor Doom during his run on FF, and during it he retconned a number of Doom appearances in other books at the time as being Doombots (particularly if Doom had been defeated).
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May 4, 2017 18:25
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Doom and Thanos were really beaten by Squirrel girl, easily, and those two old fucks can get over it.
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May 5, 2017 07:55
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JMS wrote Iron Man to be a fascist in his Thor run and had Thor give him a massive beatdown.
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May 5, 2017 10:29
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There's a lot of examples of writers being very protective of characters they're currently writing to the point where they will feel obliged to respond to appearances in other books they don't like. John Byrne and Doom is a good example. Others might include Peter David writing a scene where Hulk empties Doc Ock (because Erik Larsen had done a Spider-Man story where Ock gets adamantium arms and beats up Hulk) and Frank Tieri writing a Wolverine story in reaction to something petty Garth Ennis had made at Logan's expense in a Punisher book by having Wolverine beat up the Punisher and discover that he's carrying a bunch of gay porn or something in the process. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 10:49 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 10:47
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I guess that's the kind of thing that happens when fans grow up to become writers and carry with them very specific and unchanging images of how those characters 'should' be, as well as the inability to stop posting ever. There's a comic that was mentioned on gawker or io9 a while back that deals with the exact topic of this thread and I wish I could remember the name of it. 
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May 5, 2017 11:28
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Note: Check out John Byrne's Dastardly Doom #9 to find out why it's no longer canon that Victor once called his teacher 'mommy' - Ed.
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May 5, 2017 11:33
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Geoff Johns was super protective of Hal Jordan, and he always had the snippiest way of being a poo poo to both Batman and Kyle Rayner in his stories. The first one he wrote for Hal, Day of Judgement, involved everyone talking about how Hal was amazing and wonderful and Kyle couldn't hold his jockstrap and Kyle and Batman (who distrusted Hal) being beaten up all the time. He is also famous for holding onto his pet theories as a fan, even after they were confirmed incorrect, and writing them in. Notably being "Superboy is a clone of Lex Luthor and Superman!" I mean Bryne with Doom's been noted, but that's Bryne with anyone he writes really. He always determined that he was writing "The definitive run". Most famous story for me was on Wonder Woman, where he wanted to tell "Donna Troy's definitive Origin" when she was currently a character being used in Green Lantern. Reportedly, and I don't have the link for this anymore, so take it with a grain of salt. His response was to write Wonder Woman, pulling Donna out of GL, ignoring that GL had several issues already submitted running contrary to this. And then he wound up doing the "Dark Angel" stuff with her anyway. So it wasn't even for a good cause.
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May 5, 2017 15:33
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Schneider Heim posted:JMS wrote Iron Man to be a fascist in his Thor run and had Thor give him a massive beatdown. Iron Man was a fascist at that point, but JMS took it to the extreme.
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May 5, 2017 18:00
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Don't forget about his characterisation of Reed Richrds at the time too lol. http://www.cbr.com/the-abandoned-an-forsaked-so-why-did-reed-richards-support-the-superhuman-registration-act/ irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 18:08 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 18:03
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Schneider Heim posted:JMS wrote Iron Man to be a fascist in his Thor run and had Thor give him a massive beatdown. Millar was the one who had Iron Man create a murderous clone of Thor. Having Thor give him a beatdown was pretty much mandatory after that. Horrible Taste fucked around with this message at 18:12 on May 5, 2017 |
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May 5, 2017 18:07
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Millar, not Miller.
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May 5, 2017 18:10
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irlZaphod posted:Millar, not Miller. I always get those two confused, but thanks for correcting me. It's fixed now.
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May 5, 2017 18:15
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Onmi posted:Geoff Johns was super protective of Hal Jordan, and he always had the snippiest way of being a poo poo to both Batman and Kyle Rayner in his stories. The first one he wrote for Hal, Day of Judgement, involved everyone talking about how Hal was amazing and wonderful and Kyle couldn't hold his jockstrap and Kyle and Batman (who distrusted Hal) being beaten up all the time. Literally one of the first things Geoff Johns did after reviving Hal Jordan is repeat the infamous One Punch panel but with Batman getting punched out because Hal Jordan is SO COOOOL.
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May 5, 2017 20:36
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All that poo poo that people said about Geoff Johns and Hal Jordan, except Barry Allen
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May 9, 2017 00:33
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If anything needs to be retconned it's Doom sacrificing the woman he loved to Mephisto's demons, especially when he spent most of his life trying to rescue his mother's soul from Mephisto. Really clashes with that entire character arc.
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May 9, 2017 20:39
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Endless Mike posted:Iron Man was a fascist at that point, but JMS took it to the extreme. [My hackles rise and ears perk as I hear the din and clash of the eternal politics semantics battle on the wind]
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May 10, 2017 03:32
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ImpAtom posted:Literally one of the first things Geoff Johns did after reviving Hal Jordan is repeat the infamous One Punch panel but with Batman getting punched out because Hal Jordan is SO COOOOL. In the New52 Justice League wasn't there a dick measuring competition where Batman's knob outsized Hal's? How's Johns let that one through...
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May 10, 2017 03:34
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