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Definitely. There is just no way Lynch could have anticipated Dougie 25 years ago. That took some thought.  In a way, season three is actually more interesting exactly because it comments and riffs on the original show from such a removed vantage point. If FWWM was a re-evaluation of Laura Palmer's role in the show, the Return is a re-evaluation of the entirety of Twin Peaks and all the nostalgia it has accumulated. edit: Let's not forget that it was initially just going to be 8 episodes, though. He somehow came up with 10 more episodes than were initially planned. And More fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 9, 2020 |
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Mar 9, 2020 00:13
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Quote of the week: "What?" (Ben Horne)Rageaholic posted:e2: Hahaha, that framed print of an atomic bomb blast in Gordon's office The scene also starts on a framed photo of a corncob. Diane's interrogation of Cooper is just so haunting. I think it's really amazing that Diane has such a believable presence in this show, right from the start. Also, a great detail is that Gordon seems to really believe her until she hugs him, and then he instantly knows something isn't right. I love that the whole story behind Mr. Strawberry is completely cryptic the entire way through. Is Mr. Strawberry the dog or is Mr. Strawberry some kind of pimp that Warden Murphy killed? We'll never know. We just know that it's something horrible. Jerusalem posted:I stand by my statement of almost 3 years ago! The sudden complete shift in body language, reaction time, control as Cooper (or at least Cooper's training) suddenly surfaces from deep within Dougie is amazing. Equally as great of course is how once it's all over, Dougie is reaching out in fascination for the cop's badge and Janey is just kinda absent-mindedly slapping it away as she continues to give her enthusiastic statement The old school kung-fu punching sound is extremely funny. Cooper can also be glad that Ike uses his gun like he uses the spike, as a short range weapon. Escobarbarian posted:Remember when the show was airing and some people absolutely refused to accept the possibility that Richard was fathered by Evil Coop as a result of rape and said people were weirdos for predicting it I still think it's a pretty hosed up thing for the show to play with the idea that you can have evil genes. It's something I strongly reject as a thesis for our non-magical actual world. Compared to Bob as an analogy of human evil, it seems like a badly thought out theme at best. At the end of the episode, there is a little continuity error that people like to point to as a purposeful flaw. It has an effect similar to Kubrick's the Shining, in which chairs and pots disappear between cuts. Here, between cuts, all the customers in the diner change. The scene starts on the left side of the diner. It's most obvious with an old guy in a brown sweater sitting closest to the camera. Then we briefly cut to Norma on the other side of the diner, as the guy looking for Billy comes in. When we cut back to the previous angle, there is a different old guy in a light blue shirt sitting where the first old guy sat. Obviously, this could be a genuine mistake, but it seems like you'd have to be extremely confused to mix up shots from completely different scenes like that. I need a few screenshots please: - Jerry Horne - Diane's dressing gown - Diane's leopard jacket (on the plane) - Diane's leather top (prison hallway) - The diner with the old guy in the sweater (1st shot) - The diner with the old guy in a light blue shirt (2nd shot same angle) And More fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 15, 2020 |
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Mar 15, 2020 12:42
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BetterLekNextTime posted:(evolutionary biologist checking in) There's another way to think about this that is not a eugenics spin. Epigenetics describes changes in gene expression (for example, how identical twins start to look different due to different experiences and environments), and new research is showing that these changes in expression can be passed on for one or more generations. For example, trauma from war, famine, or slavery can change gene expression in future generations independent of what gene variants are actually there. In the context of The Return, I never thought about Bad Coop genes, but that Audrey's trauma was captured in *her* genomic architecture and passed along to Richard. In fact, I'd expect all the coop versions to have the same DNA. So this really isn't much different than the cycle of abuse that can propagate generation to generation, or maybe a way to think about it is it is a biological mechanism for capturing variation in experience as it relates to differences in appearance and behavior. I've been thinking about this post for a while. While I'm not sure I recognise what you describe in the way the show portrays Richard (and I can't actually figure out how epigenetics work from some stuff I've read) there is one detail you brought up, which I find very interesting. There is a very strong emphasis on absentee father figures in this show, while the mother is somewhat accepted as present. It's Bobby and his father, Richard and Mr. C. Even Janey-e's role in the family seems largely accepted as standard, while Dougie specifically is the one person Sonny Jim wants to interact with. And then there is a large figure in space with female features which seemingly births BOB by vomiting.  The only dad who's still hanging around looking for his daughter is Leland.So, I'm almost a week late in writing something about this episode. There is some stuff I want to talk about, but I think the time's not quite right. So I'll instead talk about two different aspects of this amazing sixty minute masterpiece. Quote of the week: Screaming inaudibly (Pretty much everyone) Old school special effects There is a very evident use of old-fashioned or outdated special effects in the atom bomb scene, which I find worth talking about. The first shot of the detonation is visually incredible. Particularly the little details of the shock wave travelling across the land and kicking up dust, and the smaller explosions to the side of the main blast give the scene so much realism. It's the kind of thing you'd likely forget about when recreating a scene like this, and it really sells this moment as authentic. As the camera enters into the blast, however, we see a series of swirling images, which might not actually be fire. It seems to me like one of them is a monochrome shot of a camera speeding through a field of grass. There is one I'm fairly sure is water being stirred. In quality, these are very similar to the effect which we see when Cooper passes from the black lodge into the purple ocean. Not an actual dimensional shift, but some kind of gas cloud expanding (under water?). It very much looks like some kind of chemical reaction. These effects remind me of the inventiveness of old sci-fi movies in which household items could be used to convey the idea of something futuristic or alien. (Such as The Twilight Zone or Doctor Who) The dissonance between the incredibly photorealistic computer generated rendition of the first moment and these later "impressionistic" shots makes it seem less like a technical limitation and more like an intentional stylistic flourish. These effects are plausible within the technological limitations of movie making in the early 60s. There is also an associative quality to these images. These old school special effects are not simply direct representations of atomic fire because they are, in reality, something else. Within the representation of an explosion, we see nature, conveyed through plants and water. The explosion is not simply one event, but an all-encompassing reaction of chaos within nature. The show tells us, chaos is something you might find in a field or when gazing into a water cooler. The origin of evil As amazing as this episode is, it is also quite baffling. Very casually, everything that we know about the lodges is thrown into disarray here. The cause of this confusion is that we are given the concrete moment when all threads of the story are set into motion. Previously, we were led to believe that the lodges existed before the first settlers ever came to America. Here, we are given a very clear connection between the influence of American politics and the creation of both BOB and Laura. This, it seems, is also the moment in which the convenience store first comes to live. Of course, the lodges don't operate on linear time, so it's never clear whether it's "future" or "past" ot whether it even matters. For all we know, this point of origin spirals in both directions through time, retroactively causing evil to exist in the past. Nevertheless, this puts new context to the story of Laura's torment. She was specifically sent into the world, and BOB specifically found her. The evil that men do was very specifically set in motion by a great political Western evil: the atom bomb. In my opinion, there are two ways to read this: the fantasy way or the psychological way. If you accept Twin Peaks as a fantasy story, you could call this the story of a chosen one who might have been sent into the world to act as some type of saviour. In this reading, Laura's personal suffering is quite inconsequential because it always had a meaning in a grander scheme. The second reading is that the trauma Laura experienced, despite being such a small evil in the scope of all evil in the world, is a cataclysmic event in its own right that causes ripples of misery which can never be undone. The damage caused by Leland has a lingering effect, much like radiation. In this sense, what we see in this episode is both realistic, to be taken extremely literally, and symbolic, to be understood as a representation of trauma and its spread beyond the point of origin. If it's not too late, could I get some screenshots of: - Some of the effects after we enter the blast (these are impossible to describe, tbh. Pick whatever looks cool) Thank you! 
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Mar 27, 2020 17:52
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Quote of the week: "What the – ?" (Hawk) - drat, Diane just dresses ten times better than anyone else in the show. She just looks so good.  - Ugh, that itchy armpit rash.  - I love the song that closes out this episode in particular. The canon-type singing is both beautiful and kind of creepy. Like someone getting lost in the forest and walking past the same tree a second time. Rageaholic posted:Poor Bill, he just wanted to go scuba diving Matthew Lillard is a real revelation for me. I don't think I've ever consciously noticed him in anything other than Scooby Doo. (Looking at his filmography, I guess he's mostly Shaggy except for a few serious roles every once in a while.) He is such a good actor, though. When Hastings whines about This is also the one scene in which I find Tammy kind of compelling. She feels like a bit of a non-entity for most of the show. Here, she comes off as competent, well-prepared and generally as someone you want to trust. Toast King posted:I didn't know very much going in, but I wasn't expecting so many little moments of humour throughout, I was impressed how much it shifts around in tone all the time. It's easy to forget that Twin Peaks is often extremely funny. People just tend to focus so much on the dark and creepy elements, but Lynch brings a lot of great absurdist humour to the show as well. Jerusalem posted:Dougie becoming fixated on an electrical socket The patriotic music while Dougie's looking at the flag only for him to get distracted by some nice legs really cracks me up. Rageaholic posted:This is another scene that looks better in motion than in stills, but here are a few: Yeah, I guess that's to be expected when looking at something this chaotic. Still, the second one in particular turned out really great. Looks simultaneously quite a bit like water to me, and like the stars Cooper was falling towards:  For this week, could I please get screenshots of - Gordon squeezing Diane's shoulder on the plane - Diane's stylish suit at the morgue - Not Jerry's foot?
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Mar 29, 2020 20:58
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Thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.
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Mar 30, 2020 00:07
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Interesting interpretation. I'd honestly say almost the exact opposite. It's an indication of sadism. The white of the eyes reminds me of: "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes.", a saying that teaches you to make the fight close and personal so you don't miss. You can only see the white of the eyes when you're extremely close, staring someone right in the face (as you relish the moment of crushing their skull. Note, he didn't take nearly as long killing the secretary, and I don't think it's because the DJ was more thick headed). The white horse is also associated with a conqueror in the apocalypse of John. The rider of the white horse is a dominating figure. And More fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 31, 2020 |
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Mar 31, 2020 20:06
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kaworu posted:There are some interesting theories about the existence of the Glass Box. While I can see the potential of this working as an allegory, I don't see any particular evidence that would force me to interpret the lodge spirits that way, at least in your summary. Maybe we should actually watch that video once the rewatch is over.  Honestly, I don't think I'm gonna like it, though. The first fifteen minutes disappointed me pretty thoroughly because they spend minutes reassuring me that every minute was worth my attention, and then they just go on to summarise a bunch of stuff without any analysis whatsoever. This is the kind of poo poo my professor would have lowered my grade for.  Volte posted:Also that Twin Perfect video has a few very good ideas, especially about FWWM being a rumination on the fate of Twin Peaks as a TV show and the role that the TV landscape, and TV audiences completely missing the point of the show, played in its demise, but it's wrapped up in a load of over-rationalized horseshit that desperately wants Twin Peaks to be a direct allegory for David Lynch's hatred of TV. It starts with some interpretations that could hold water but then builds on those as if they are undeniable axioms, and continues to do so for four hours until it eventually concludes that Twin Peaks season 3 was David Lynch saying "gently caress you" to the audience for liking Twin Peaks too much and forcing him to resurrect and ruin it somehow. As if David Lynch is the kind of person who would create art out of spite. That last part in particular doesn't really track with how much fun it is to watch the Return. Honestly, any comprehensive, straight forward interpretation like that is probably extremely limited because art is rarely just one thing. That's at least why I keep coming back to the show. There's something new and different to discover every time. Quote of the week: (grinning in uncomprehending bliss) (Dougie Jones/Cooper) El Jeffe posted:Candie Candie might be the mvp in this episode. How was she actually gonna kill that fly with a handkerchief, anyway? I love how much of a piece of poo poo the one Mitchum is, just cranking up the volume, so he doesn't have to care about the sobbing woman sitting next to the TV. Dirt Road Junglist posted:Jade gives TWO rides! It's actually kind of prophetic. Cooper gets two rides, after all. The first one is clearly a lot more pleasant, though. Data Graham posted:also what the hell is that dog-deer thing Cole is drawing with the Sharpie, with the suit-clad arm reaching out to it It's Glastonbury Grove. I think it's a reference to the end of season two in which BOB's arm emerges out of thin air. Data Graham posted:Also uh, what does "Now I know how Brando felt" mean? I dunno, I noticed it here for the first time, as well. Feels relevant, though. It's the second Brando reference we got in this season. Maybe he means that it feels like someone set him on fire like Brando in Mutiny on the Bounty. Could I get screenshots of: - Dougie's sexy abs as seen from Janey-e's POV - Janey-e's back (as she's straddling Dougie) - Dougie and Janey-e cuddling after sex - Candie crying by the TV - The Mitchums fuming with rage on their couch (after they learn that they have an enemy in Douglas Jones) And More fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Apr 6, 2020 |
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Apr 6, 2020 18:46
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Volte posted:I just had a weird thought, since we're going meta - what if the Fireman's domain is in some sense Lynch's mind? He has invoked the image of an ocean in relation to consciousness many times in his discussions of Transcendental Meditation. All those machines visible in there could represent the vast bank of thought and knowledge. The theatre could represent the mind's eye or visual cortex, the Fireman himself being Lynch's consciousness. He's a giant because Lynch believes he has grown his consciousness through meditation. When Cooper gets banished to non-existence, he ended up back there. Bad Cooper's ultimate goal seems to be to get inside there to find answers, but when he tries, he gets denied. Just something interesting to think about. Regarding your interpretation of episode 8 as a representation of David Lynch's unconscious , I have some observations regarding the arm and the white lodge. The psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan claims in his essay The Mirror Stage that the earliest constitution of self takes place when a child sees their own reflection in the mirror. We see this formative moment of self-identification depicted a number of times throughout Twin Peaks. Its most shocking variation is probably when Leland looks in the mirror, and sees BOB staring back at him. The Leland we saw turns out to be fundamentally different from how Leland perceived himself. This same moment is also repeated with Mr. C who looks in a mirror to reassure himself that BOB is still with him. On the flip side, we have the much more innocent moment in which Dougie/Cooper sees his reflection in the mirror, and recognises himself like a child. It is one of many moments in which Cooper slowly begins to return, becoming himself again. (Just something I find amusing regarding Dougie: Lacan calls this first pre-language form the "Ideal-I".)   Even in Lacan's theory, this first moment of recognition is not a peaceful one, however. It coincides with "a primordial Discord", which is created by "signs of uneasiness and motor unco-ordination of the neonatal months". In essence, the human self always feels anatomically incomplete due to this first impression. In dreams, this fragmentation can be turned into a "fragmented body". Take for example Philip Gerard who is like BOB until he takes off his own arm. His self is symbolically fragmented by the fragmentation of the own body. The arm continues existing in the world of dreams, however, first as a small man, then as a organic, electrically crackling tree. The tree, as a symbol of the arm, could be considered a further abstraction. It is an arm reduced to its branch-like nerve endings, receiving electrical impulses from the brain.  Lacan goes on to explain that, in dreams, the "formation of the I" is often symbolically represented "by a fortress" which is divided "into two opposed fields of contest". Within this dreamscape, "the subject flounders in quest of the lofty, remote inner castle", the Id. The white lodge, built on a high cliff surrounded by a massive ocean could certainly be defined as some type of fortress. This would also account for the strange rivalry between the two lodges. Even though both seem to be inextricably linked (with MIKE and BOB both feasting on Garmonbozia in FWWM) they still effectively function as antagonists to one another.  So, in essence, the lodges are symbolic of the constitution of the self. They are a dreamscape that simultaneously fragments the self into opposing sides while also revealing them to all be connected, linked by a primordial moment of chaos: an explosion, an expulsion, a birth. kaworu posted:To answer the question before of why The Arm has "evolved" in the intervening years into this weird electrified tree... Well, the way we watch TV has evolved dramatically in the intervening years. Back then, everyone still watched TV on a big heavy CRT monitor in 1990, and it was still a pretty drat big deal to have like 3 or more TV sets in a house - most of us still only had one still back then - maybe 2 if your family was doing fairly well. Today, that form of TV watching is basically non-existent - we all have multiple screens - tablets, phones, laptops, ultra-high res giant LED screens, etc.... The TV viewing experience is not what it once was, and instead of "Invitation to Love", we see Nadine watching Jacoby's show on (what seems to be) a computer at her desk. and Jerry Horne was watching it on a tablet outside while smoking up. Not exactly traditional TV watching as it once was. I think this is why The Arm is "evolved" and sounds like a weird digitized shadow of the "indian whoop". In some sense, the evolution of the arm is also an evolution of a symbolic chain. At first, the arm was simply a fragmentation of Philip Gerard's personality. The arm's cartoonish Native American war cry from the Missing Pieces opens up new interpretations, however. We no longer look at the arm as a person, but as an abstraction of electricity. The nerve endings of the arm receive electrical impulses from the brain, and turn those impulses into actions. That is the evolution of the arm: a fleshy, electrically crackling tree of nerve endings. It is a multi-purpose metaphor for communication.  The doubling of communication and war in this symbolic chain actually reminds me of the German philosopher Friedrich Kittler. In his Geschichte der Kommunikationsmedien (History of mediums of communication), he outlines that the history of media is inextricably linked with the history of warfare. Kittler traces back modes of communication from signal fires as a quick way to coordinate attacks over the invention of the military post to radio and television as tools of propaganda. His interpretation of media as a fom of weapon basically turns any impulse into a type of communication. In a similar vein, the war cry of the arm is both the sound of a telephone pole, and the sound of an attack, a message being delivered. It's a message inherent in the detonation of the atomic bomb, as well. Something that uses no words, but sends a clear message in the form of shock waves, flashes of light and a lingering fallout. quote:The glass box came up again, as we see Bad Coop in that room in this last episode. Inland Empire, as a film, is full of holes. I mean actual, literal holes - like the one in the silk that Laura Dern peers through in order to observe the "other world". This is very clearly a metaphor, representative of watching a film and falling through that hole into that other world - or you could look at it in a number of ways. Now, the *glass box* is connected to the outside world via a *circular hole*. And there MUST both be cameras observing the box from multiple angles as well as a person watching the box in order for anything that comes out of that hole and into the box to be be observed - after all, does anything in the box exist if nobody is directly observing it? Does a TV show exist if it gets moved to a Saturday time slot, and nobody knows about it and nobody watches it? I don't have much to add to this, I just find it funny that your post, much like the box, seems to change every time I look at it. Pretty sure this entire section wasn't there at first. Thank you! No joke, these are very important to my rewatch.
And More fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 00:57
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pyrotek posted:https://twitter.com/Kyle_MacLachlan/status/1248091210893258752?s=20 Honestly, I'm very doubtful that MacLachlan knows anything about the meaning of that episode beyond the performance he gave. Which is to say, I completely disagree with his second tweet. kaworu posted:Fascinating. I never noticed that.  Then again, this is the kind of show in which BOB and MIKE have barely anything to do with Bobby and Mike. So
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Apr 9, 2020 14:44
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My personal favourite appearances of Twin Peaks actors in unrelated media are Miguel Ferrer and Ray Wise in Robocop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2JSXKFWqGI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J8mkHUsiXY Also Laura Dern in Star Wars.
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Apr 10, 2020 15:27
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Quote of the week: "What the hell?" (Carl Rodd) I think it's really fascinating that Bill Hastings and everyone involved in his storyline are gone from the show after this point. The investigation only intersected with that town very briefly, but you can only assume that this must be a world-changing event for everyone involved, especially the police chief. They are just left behind, in a way. The slow unfolding surreality of the diner scene is truly magical. We start from the fairly familiar setting of soap drama and diner (with Norma prompting from the sidelines), but it just gets weirder every second. Their daughter literally just unloaded a gun into a door in the hopes of killing her husband, but they treat it like it's not that big a deal. Shelly runs out to kiss the weird drug dealer with all the glee of a school girl, and then all hell breaks loose. My favourite moment is when the other cop approaches Bobby, says: "I heard shots", and Bobby just stares at him blankly for a moment, as if he's speaking in a foreign language. Poor Bobby really doesn't know what is happening anymore. There is something incredibly iconic about Cooper just standing there with the box as the Mitchums bicker in the foreground. It's like an absurd subversion of the Breaking Bad finale. His entire posture makes him just look so gormless. If they shot him then and there, I don't think he'd notice. El Jeffe posted:The Van Whistle Carl's van is basically the batmobile without any funding. This week, I'd like to post an extended quote from an article I read. It really highlights for me that there is a massive tonal shift between Cooper's portrayal in the old show and the Return. And I don't mean that he's Dougie. It's that there is no morality to his good deeds. From: Fradley, Martin & John A. Riley, 2019: "Dirty Bearded Men in a Room". Twin Peaks: The Return and the Politics of Lynchian Comedy. In: Amanda DiPaolo and Jamie Gillies. The Politics of Twin Peaks. London: Lexington Books posted:In Twin Peaks’ original run, Cooper’s wholesomeness was underscored by his appreciation of quotidian physical pleasures and a devout love of black coffee and cherry pie. In The Return, however, this boyish enthusiasm becomes comically grotesque, with Dougie grinning maniacally at the mere mention of his favorite hot beverage. […] (76) Something the article doesn't really focus on: Regardless of his lacking morality, Dougie still turns everyone's lives around for the better. That old woman genuinely seemed to be in a better place in life. If you're cynical, you could claim that she's just happy because she's rich. I'm not entirely sure that's true, though. The Mitchums still seem to think he just "saved [them] a lot" of money, but I think they're starting to be less awful, even in this episode. Could I get screenshots of - Becky screaming in the trailer - Carl and Shelly in the van - Hawk and Truman - Dougie holding the box (with Mitchums in the foreground) - Candie pondering traffic And More fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Apr 12, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 11:31
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Quote(s) of the week(s) "You're not gonna tell me what he said?!" (Audrey) "Charlie help me. It's like Ghostwood here." (Audrey) Sarah Palmer's scenes this season are hard to watch. In season two, it still seemed like people were there for her. Now it's only Hawk who still feebly tries to help. She's got no one left. Really, I can't even imagine how it would feel to have your life robbed of meaning so suddenly and conclusively. One really interesting aspect of Bushnell and Dougie interrogating Anthony is that it has a lot in common with the interrogation of Ernie Niles by Denise and Cooper back in season two. Both involve a really weepy witness who is forced to do the right thing despite his own cowardice. Bushnell's "I'm not asking" reminds me of Denise's glee at putting Ernie through the wringer. Anthony even seems to rephrase what Gordon said about Denise earlier in the season : "Fix your hearts or die", and "I want to change or die". The scene with Norma and that sales guy is fairly unremarkable in the grander scheme of things. I do really like that the show somehow still manages to squeeze in a little nod to how Twin Peaks is facing "uphill challenges economically". It's not just Norma who is in financial trouble. During the Nadine and Jacoby scene, the subtitles pick up something kind of hard to notice. Right at the end, the train horn sounds. I'm like 90% it's the same sound as earlier in the season. A mournful tune for two very lonely people. Audrey's first scene is, even on rewatch, pretty tough to sit through in a bad way. It's just interminable. Her second scene is so creepy, though. Charlie threatening to end Audrey's story, and her breaking into tears as she says "It's like Ghostwood here" is remarkably unsettling. egon_beeblebrox posted:When the episode first aired, that filled me with such a terrible sense of dread. I was convinced that the whole cast of "Twin Peaks" was gonna end up being part of the Black Lodge storyline, something bad was gonna happen to Ed; etc. I'm glad it didn't go that way. To be honest, I'm not convinced the entire show doesn't take place in the black lodge to some extent. It's kind of a crackpot theory, but I feel like most of the show creates a strange disconnect between places. There is a weird reliance on repeating confined spaces. You rarely see people leave buildings or go from one room to the next. If the walls of Ben Horne's office suddenly lifted away, I wouldn't be surprised at all. It somehow feels disconnected from the location of the hotel, in a way. Gotta love that James still has the classic setup with two women simultaneously singing "Just you and I" with him. I guess he's somehow amplified the absurdity of the situation by clearly singing the song for a third woman. kaworu posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7hlDrLgKHQ The video essay is pretty good, so far. I like the approach, and it seems like a good introduction to postmodern theory. In particular, I'm curious about the aspects of race and satire that she hints at, but doesn't really go into at this stage. Those aspects are not explored as often when it comes to Lynch, so I'm curious which movie she'll choose for each one, and what her argument will look like. Something I find kind of troublesome is how much the essayist relies on Lynch's biography as evidence for her thesis, both in the introductory video and the Eraserhead one. As the video essayist correctly points out, postmodernism is a movement that essentially rejects the concept of truth, redefining it as a type of narrative. However, one such narrative is the concept of the author. Claims such as: "This all matters because Lynch was there for all of it. As a child of the 1950s, he lived out the Norman Rockwell painting in real time. But as many kids of his ilk realised, there is something phony and suspicious about it." basically insinuate an identity of art and artist. She not only points out the biographical parallels between Eraserhead's protagonist and Lynch's own poverty as a young father studying in Philadelphia, she even goes so far as to claim that this is what the film is "about". In that context, biographical data is infallible. If you understand the artist, you understand the art. Almost by default, this approach goes against postmodernism. Michel Foucault, for example, would consider the role of author a position of power. If you take up authorship, you essentially take control and ownership over the art you produce. In doing so, you control what can be said about your art because there is always a "correct" narrative that the author has access to. A lot of poststructuralist philosophy, to which I also count the famous Death of the Author essay by Roland Barthes, therefore does away with this control of the author. It is contradictory to seek truth in the author's interviews, if you want to be a postmodern critic/scholar. If anything, you should consider the semi-autobiographical films and books Lynch has participated in a type of fiction written by Lynch to control your perception of his art. Lynch is a good storyteller, and I don't think you're gonna get anything out of him that hasn't already been turned into a fun story to some extent. It's highly probable, imo, that he makes himself appear like one of his protagonists on purpose. After all, a lot of people (me included) have a tendency to read his interviews in Gordon Cole's voice. And More fucked around with this message at 08:59 on May 21, 2020 |
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Apr 26, 2020 21:02
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Quote of the week: "What the hell? What happened?" (the Bartender) Wild West is one of my favourite songs from this season. It just really gets me pumped for the finale.  Of course, it also picks up on the whole cowboy hero aspect of the season. Dougie pointing his finger like a gun, and the photo of a cowboy in the Fuscos' office just to name a few that I noticed. In a sense, even Sarah's scene is a staple of the western genre: Lone gunslinger goes into the saloon, just looking for a drink, and instantly is harrassed by some rear end in a top hat. Then said rear end in a top hat gets shot.Rageaholic, could I get screenshots of - the Truck You shirt - a hand floating in Sarah's face, please? Rageaholic posted:e: Hahaha, Gordon's Monica Belluci dream You know Tammy is fully part of the team when Gordon treats his Monica Belucci dream like serious business, and she doesn't even blink. Rageaholic posted:Aw yeah, you absolutely do not gently caress with I love how the bar scene goes from extremely scary and realistic to Evil Dead levels of comical in the span of seconds. The Truck You dude seems so menacing, but his cartoonish shriek as he dies and his goofy facial expression don't really convey that. Sarah, as scary as she is, also gets some of the most hilarious and badass lines in the whole season here. Her "Do you really wanna gently caress with this?" reads like some action movie one-liner. The Truck You dude had it comin', after all. The "Sure, is a mystery, huh?" right afterwards always cracks me up, too. So deadpan. Jerusalem posted:I should be mad that this episode introduces two previously never-before-seen concepts/backstories as if they're a preexisting part of the show's backstory, but they're both done so well it ends up working anyway: Gordon's "I had one of my Monica Belluci dreams!" scene as well as the security guard telling James about the super-strength +3 glove he bought. Freddy is supposed to be absurd, though, right? I guess the true scope of how incredibly important this random bloke from Brittain is to the show only becomes clear in future episodes, but man… it's already kinda crazy that he just gets a 10 minute scene of backstory in the last third of this season. Data Graham posted:I think it's pretty funny how the Fireman was so specific and helpful in his instructions to green glove guy, whereas every other time we actually see him he's talking in cryptic backwards riddles You really have to wonder why the Fireman has stopped talking to people. He was pretty chatty with Freddy or Cooper in the original show, but Andy just gets a picture show, and the new Cooper gets the super cryptic "Two birds with one stone" etc. Of course, it's also possible that Freddy liberally interpreted what he was shown in his vision for the sake of the story he was telling. When Gordon was drawn into that potal, he also wasn't particularly coherent, after all. And More fucked around with this message at 13:52 on May 3, 2020 |
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May 3, 2020 13:45
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Jerusalem posted:The bigger question is whether Megan's uncle was there or not! Now that's the kind of thing agent Desmond would have picked up on.  Thank you!
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May 4, 2020 18:45
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Rageaholic posted:I like how the David Lynch Theater opening is the same room from episode 8 where Senorita Dido feeds the Laura orb into the tube. I'm glad he uploaded it because the short finally got me to watch episodes 15 and 16, which I'd kind of been unable to do. The music in this is really beautiful. I also really liked the little tree people ballet at the end. It's the type of thing that makes you go "I could maybe create something like this." It looks so simple, yet there's so much to it. Quote/s of the week/s: "What the hell?" (James) "What the hell kind of neighborhood is this?" (Bradley Mitchum) Steven's little monologue is completely garbled by whatever the hell he's on, of course. I think it's interesting, though, that it's not entirely clear whether he killed Becky. Gersten claims "You were high" and asks "What did she give you?". Either she's trying to sell Steven on the idea that it's not his fault or maybe it's actually true. Who can tell? They are both pretty out of it. He also reiterates Laura's own phrase "I'm gone like the turkey in the corn." in his mangled way. First he goes "I'm gone" and then later he asks "Will I be turquoise." which sounds quite a bit like turkey. One thing I always find frustrating is Hawk's passive role in this show. He knew all about doppelgangers and the lodge, yet he doesn't figure this poo poo out until 25 years later? From the conversations with Margaret it's obvious that he knows something about Judy (the one above blue pine mountain), yet I'm not sure he ever does anything with this knowledge. On the one hand, that's probably why he's still around while people like Cooper and Philip Jeffreys disappear. On the other hand, he seems kind of ineffectual. The way Chantal and Hutch go out is just so amazing. Somehow, it's the most believable subversion of narrative logic. It's even kind of anticipated by that random kid firing into the Double R diner. People are under a lot of pressure, and (because it's America) they're bound to be armed to the teeth with semi-automatic peashooters that can completely riddle a van in seconds. Diane's telling of the evening Cooper raped her stands out to me as a very unique moment in television. I once sat in on someone discussing their thesis on WW2 rape narratives. One key point of the presentation was that the word "rape" is somehow circumvented in many of these narratives. It's almost as if there is a directness to using the word that is terrifying, and that both historians and victims of rape try to avoid. So, Diane saying "He raped me, he raped me." has a bluntness to it that is kind of rare. It's especially fascinating to me because a lot of things in this show are wacky and out there. Mr. C is a magical being, and yet the violence he inflicted on Diane was something incredible real, common even. It's something that could happen to anyone, and be done by anyone. I know it's a bit late for this, but could I get some screenshots from the last two episodes, Rageaholic? Part 15 - Nadine saying "big lug" (4 min. in) - Mr. C walking through that corridor with trees overlayed (15 min. in) - Steven and the girl cowering next to that tree (there is a wide shot where they look absolutely tiny before he says "This is the end.") (28 min. in) Part 16 - Diane sitting in the hotel room - Diane as the orb is leaving her head - Janey-e and Sonny Jim in the casino (last shot of the scene) And More fucked around with this message at 09:00 on May 21, 2020 |
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May 21, 2020 08:50
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Amazing! Thank you!
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May 21, 2020 21:58
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sinnesloeschen posted:You're talking about someone who(m?) the text denotes believes in "whistl[ing] past the graveyard". Yeah, he doesn't get involved and that's okay. It still bothers me. And Mr. C is the king of the truckers, I guess. Quotes of the week: "What the hell?" (Hawk) "What's going on around here?" (Bobby) "Took the words right out of my loving mouth." (Bradley Mitchum) "What the gently caress just happened?" (Cowboy 1) "What's going on?" (Carrie Page) "What year is this?" (Cooper) Magic When episode 17 first aired, some article drew a comparison between the scene at the sheriff station and Kenneth Anger's Inauguration of the Pleasure Dome. Having now watched both, I can certainly see some similarities. The most obvious parallel is Diane's red wig, which is a very clear reference to the Scarlet Woman, Jack Parson's sex magick partner who appears in that film. It only makes sense that Cooper and Diane go on to work their own sex magic by reenacting her rape (in the dark, unsmiling Cooper looks a lot like Mr. C). The soundtrack evokes the night in which Judy entered Sarah Palmer by repeating the song My Prayer from Part 8. It's also easy to tell how tainted this moment and the ritual has become because the song is constantly overpowered by the music that announced the Woodsmen in Part 8 after Mr. C was shot. We know beforehand that something might go wrong, but when Diane has disappeared the next day, and Cooper walks out of a different motel, it becomes almost certain that something has happened, but maybe not the right thing. A less direct parallel is the prolonged use of Cooper's face overlayed on top of the scene at the sheriff station. In Inauguration, Anger creates the effect of magic by overlaying different people in more and more frantic arrangements on top of each other. It creates a kind of orgasmic, frantic flurry of images. Here, the overlaying of Cooper's face instead creates incredible tension. There is something about his half opened, baffled expression and the slowed declaration "We live inside a dream" that gives off a feeling of wrongness, particularly when coupled with Cooper's cheery demeanour in the scene itself. Their magic feels utterly opposed. Anger's magic is a thing of love and creation. Cooper's magic is a corrupted magic that can no longer create beauty. Global Concerns The most radical shift in Cooper's personality, and the show's scope is that it starts focusing on a nearly cosmic scale. One of the things that always stuck with me is when Albert finally breaks in front of sheriff Truman, and he says "I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global." and then Cooper declares "Albert's path is a strange and difficult one." In a way, Albert's approach seemed the opposite to Cooper's. Cooper is personable, he likes small towns and close-knit communities. Albert is the kind of guy who gets massively into global politics, but maybe he thinks individual grief is somewhat too small to care about. Cooper's worldview also aligns with some of Lynch's comments in Lynch on Lynch. At one point, Lynch says: "Some people, just by their nature, think about the President of the United States and Africa and Asia. Their mind thinks over thousands of miles, big problems and big situations. That just completely leaves me cold. I can't get there. I like to think about a neighbourhood […] a little local place that I can get into. The two are really the same: it's all based on human nature and the same sorts of things." In that regard, the Return is an interesting change in his approach. There is still a strong sense of place in the show, but the aim has shifted. It's no longer possible to confine the story to one community. Bill Hastings and all those characters were left behind ages ago. The same goes for Las Vegas. This new scope is oppressive. As the Fireman says "You are very far away." and Carrie Page, half asleep, tells Cooper: "It's a long way...". The murder of Laura Palmer was something to be solved, but when you start going outward from that centre, the goal becomes very difficult to see. Hubris There is a little nod that Hawk shares with Cooper when he says "There are some things that will change". I guess Hawk does actually understand what Cooper means, and he's on board with it. Mark Frost has said in an interview that he believes Cooper shouldn't have tried to alter the past. His opinion is that it was hubris to even try. Calling Cooper solely responsible seems simplistic, though. If we're gonna point the finger, let's also look to the Fireman, Mike, Major Briggs, Philip Jeffries and Gordon Cole and Diane. I guess Hawk is also to blame, seeing as he gets it, and he doesn't object. Just to give a counter argument, in the world of Twin Peaks where corruption has slowly spread outward from one point of origin, it certainly seems worth a try changing the past. There are so many things going wrong in that world that seem to be related to that moment. If you realised that you could fix it all if you did this one risky thing, maybe there is almost a duty to try. If anything, it's almost worth it just because Pete got to go fishing that day. That guy really deserved a break. The final shot Laura's scream, and the image cutting to black is absolutely haunting, and I understand if people consider that the end of the show. However, I maintain that the last scene is actually Laura whispering to Cooper and him looking horrified. All the credits before this point were meant to be watched fully, and this credit sequence is no exception. It's the final mystery of the show. What did she tell him that freaked him out so much? Some (more) random thoughts The camera cutting rapidly between Mike and Cooper after the poem seems to indicate their similarity or even identical nature. As if they are basically the same person, just at different stages of the same journey. Notable about the scene at Judy's is that Cooper takes care of these guys in much the same way as Mr. C. The fact that he points the gun at just about anyone in the place really reinforces that he doesn't trust anyone there. It also creates this strange situation in which the people suddenly don't seem so sure whether he's helping or robbing the place. It doesn't take away from the scene at Judy's, but I did notice this time around that Cooper never picks up all three of the cowboy's guns, just two. When he fries them, however, he's got an additional third revolver to put in there. Could I get a screenshot of: - The theatre with Mr. C in a cage, and a light flashing to the left - Cooper saying "You did it Freddie!" - Cooper's face overlayed on top of himself - Cooper overlayed on top of the three women with sandwiches - The gross orb with half of Diane's face - Cooper and Mike walking through the corridor with trees overlayed - Mr. C burning in a chair - Glastonbury Grove with the curtain - Diane standing by the motel reception - Carrie Page's living room (with the dead guy and the horse plate) - That one creepy shot of the backseat of the car (before the other car passes them) - The triple fade between the gas station, the road and Carrie Page's face I know that's a lot of screenshots. I did some soul searching, and I really need them.
And More fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 09:41
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Jerusalem posted:I couldn't do it. I watched Episode 17 and had to stop for now. It's just too much of a gut-punch, the first time I watched it I found myself truly, desperately hoping AND believing that Cooper was going to save Laura. This time I knew he wouldn't and still those beautiful moments where Laura's corpse disappears from the beach and Pete walks past the empty shore and goes fishing just leave me teary-eyed. The shift from black and white to color when Laura takes Cooper's hand. How close they get to Glastonbury Grove (or was it just another thin point in the world) before the sudden tightening of the frame that marks her disappearance. Whatever occupies the hollow shell of Sarah Palmer screaming in rage in the house.... God it's such a good episode of television but so heart-wrenching. When I watched the show with my ɔoυƨin, I also stopped after episode 17 and we watched the last part in a separate sitting. Part 17 feels like the end of Twin Peaks. Julee Cruise takes you back around to the pilot episode. It's a good conclusion. Similarly to how Cooper and Diane turn into Richard and Linda, Twin Peaks becomes something entirely different in Part 18. A new mystery with new rules. There is some value in taking that in on its own terms.
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May 24, 2020 10:52
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Rageaholic posted:Poll time: Who thinks we should extend this rewatch to include the Twin Perfect video? It's 4 and a half hours long so it wouldn't be something done in a week, but I'm still interested to watch it. I'm not against watching it. If you want to watch it in a week or two, I'll make an effort to actually sit through it. Rageaholic posted:Maybe that he couldn't fix things with Judy no matter how hard he tried? That would make sense. Or maybe it's that he has to keep trying forever, like Sisyphus, with no chance of succeeding. Thank you for all the great screenshots! It's been a journey getting here, and I've got a library of rad desktop backgrounds that prove it. Escobarbarian posted:This is still one of the worst effects shots ever lmao. I love it but it's so poo poo Agreed. I especially like that Major Briggs' face is stretched, emphasising the early internet jpg vibes even more.
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May 24, 2020 20:22
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Where are y‘all gonna go to chat about Twin Peaks now that Lowtax is outed as an abuser, btw?
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Jun 24, 2020 16:03
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To be honest, I'm probably not the best person to suggest something. I used to be on a Nintendo forum when I was 10, and now I'm here. If you like, I can create a topic in lp.zone, which is a forum made by ex-goons who got permabanned by lowtax for calling him out on some poo poo. It is similar to SA in that - The layout isn't super cluttered. - Posters are fairly well-spoken. - It's dead and no one posts there. But crucially: No Lowtax
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Jun 24, 2020 18:06
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Pretty much.  If you know a forum that's more like Missoula, Montana, I'm all ears, though.
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Jun 24, 2020 18:17
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Rageaholic posted:I'm on Twitter (@black_l0dger) and I talk about Twin Peaks/Lynch-related stuff on there from time to time I'll follow you. Not sure how much you'd like my posts because I made that account for posting Animal Crossing screencaps (and being followed by swery because he still does that, apparently  )Escobarbarian posted:Join us over at the TVIV discord How do we make a David Lynch thread there? Do I have to request one? Will I look very foolish when no one wants to hang out with me? By the way, I've been going through the thread and copying out some posts I might want to read again (mostly kaworu's, those are wild) and this one jumped out to me. That poo poo blew my mind when it was mentioned shortly after episode 8 aired: Liquid Dinosaur posted:I have this friend who's kind of crazy, who is unspoiled and working through the show and currently at s2e17, and he just....out of NOWHERE started talking about nuclear bombs. And More fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jun 25, 2020 |
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Jun 25, 2020 19:28
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I'd be glad to follow any of y'all on there.
Okay okay. Is this a coincidence? Is this just my friend reaching with no real info and getting VERY close to the truth, or did he just blow open a new theory?