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I just want to say I have been waiting (I can't believe I can literally say this) nearly decades for this, and I can hardly contain my elation that it is happening again!! I was too young to appreciate the show when it came out, but when I watched it at age 15 or so in... 2001 I think, it made a huge impression on me. I loved Fire Walk With Me even more than a lot of the show, because it had a more concentrated dose of that.... terrifying, mysterious, intriguing, dreamlike and mythic atmosphere that Lynch is somehow able to create almost out of nowhere in every day places. That was what made Twin Peaks so great to me, originally... That dreamlike Lynchian quality combined with Frost's ability to create serialized TV that is fun and watchable. And it's so great and awesome that both Frost and Lynch were involved in this from the start because as far as I'm concerned it simply wouldn't have been Twin Peaks, otherwise. I still remember when Lynch tried to pull out of this, insisting that he sincerely thought there were better directors out there to do the show. And the whole cast practically made a video essentially saying "It's not Twin Peaks without Lynch" and that they'd only be doing the project if HE was doing the project. So sweet. And with the original Twin Peaks, it was like.... ONLY the Lynch-directed episodes felt 'right' to me, in this weird way. They were ALWAYS the best episodes and always had something interesting, intense, spooky, creative, or awesome going on. Again, probably why I loved FWWM so much. I mean I *loved* that move, I think I watched it at least *20 freaking times* just trying to figure it all out. And I feel like I have a unique understanding and relationship with that film and with this series in general because of, well, the subject matter. I also survived hosed-up abuse as a child, and at the very heart of this show is the fact that Laura Palmer is a survivor of unspeakable child abuse which, in my eyes, has always had a huge amount to do with the tenor and tone of the mythological landscape that Cooper is exploring while investigating her death. Anyway, I'm just beyond excited. Especially when the head of Showtime is like, "This Twin Peaks series is the Lynchian equivalent of mainlining heroin" or whatever it was. Sounds great to me! I mean, Lynch directing ALL of the loving episodes (and SOO many of them) makes me ridiculously and absurdly excited but I do hp[e Frost helped to make it flow together coherently as he did the first time 'round. Good god this is gonna be awesome :much: I am looking forward to these first four hours of the show, uh, a lot. kaworu fucked around with this message at 05:33 on May 21, 2017 |
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May 20, 2017 23:53
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The Clap posted:Today is the day, gang. Christ, I am excited. Well, I updated my Amazon subscription with a subscription to their Showtime channel for $8.99 a month, so I can just watch it on my noisy-as-hell-ps3 (soon to be replaced by a PS4 Pro I think yaaay) But anyway, I'm actually curious about this too. Frankly, I'm expecting that they will make episodes 1+2 viewable online (on Amazon and whatever other streaming sites) at 9PM Eastern Time, when episode 1 airs. Then, at 11PM Eastern I would expect them to make episodes 3+4 available online. They might just make all 4 episodes accessible at once online, too... I mean, it's not like ANYONE is gonna be watching these out of sequence! But I'm just guessing with that based on the usual protocol. I'm actually gonna pace myself - I won't be able to watch the episodes from Sunday night until Monday morning, and I'm gonna like... TRY and limit myself to 1 episode a day, so I can have a full week of fantastically awesome new Twin Peaks and time to digest it. Of course, the best laid plans, and so forth. It might be so enticing that I literally MUST see all 4 episodes in succession depending on how, like... intense and heavy they are to watch. It's been like, SO long since Lynch even directed anything remotely like this - actually he's never directed anything remotely like this, in point of fact, and I'm not sure anyone else has either, at least not in the modern television industry. 18 episodes is just a LOT for one guy to direct, but I always love it when TV shows stay with ONE director either entirely or almost entirely because it gives more... full structure and coherence to the over-arching themes - visual ones, stylistic ones, setting clues and laying groundwork early on for poo poo you plan on way down the road and you know some other director won't gently caress up the reveal, etc. True Detective comes to mind, which stuck with one excellent director in season 1 with great results (there was no season 2 far as I know  But yeah I won't be making GBS threads up the thread too much for a while guys. Once we get into the rhythm of one episode a week I'll probably have more to say, these mega-premieres I often find overwhelming.
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May 21, 2017 15:39
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OK, so, I've only seen the first ep so far (and only read the thread up to that page), but I really want to just say a few thingd as someone who really has practically WAITED OUT 18 of the 26 years desperately hoping for more. And boy oh boy - after watching that finale, like.... It is SO RARE in real life when a music album or a film or a TV program actually... not only meets your ASTRONOMICALLY high expectations, but confounds them entirely. And then scares the ever living poo poo out of you, on top of that. That moment in the first episode with the two kids in the glass box in NYC, that really scared me. And it was so scary in all the buildup, in the anxiety and expectation that you have an expectation of something happening but it could come from anywhere, anything. The jump scare when it burst through the glass ACTUALLY made me jump, and I was clutching my cat in my lap for dear life during the buildup and when that happened i literally popped up in my seat for a second and scared the poo poo out of her too, poor kitty I am ready to watch that second episode and I love that I have *truly* no clue what will happen.
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May 22, 2017 11:19
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I don't know. I mean, the two episodes were good and like well made. But I didn't really fall in love with it like some people did here. Maybe I'll need to rewatch them because I barely understood anything that happened. My comment to this is that if you are... trying to "understand" what is "happening" in any literal sense, you are going about watching Lynch in the wrong way entirely. Things can just happen, in a Lynch film. A scene might have no point or purpose but to make you feel a certain way, or to evoke something symbolic. What may seem meaningful is likely meaningless, and what can seem utterly confounding and meanginless is likely full of meaning when you start digging deeper and cease viewing it as a narrative going by any set of rules - there are no rules, and sometimes the narrative jumps out the window completely for long periods of time. Lynch doesn't "do" traditional narrative, so if you go in expecting anything that's really on par with TV in terms of expected tropes, you're going to be slapped in the face a fish fresh from a coffee pot trying to watch this stuff. edit: On a totally random note, I really wanna compliment Lynch on the fantastic use of that chopped and screwed remix of American Woman. That was just *badass* and weird and creepy. kaworu fucked around with this message at 13:03 on May 22, 2017 |
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May 22, 2017 12:57
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Just, y'know, as a side-note I am *really* impressed with just how quickly people gulped down all 4 episodes and started analyzing it. I mean like, I'm not trying to point fingers and accuse people of moving too fast with this, but like.... There is a loving LOT LOT LOT to unpack. I have spent over a decade and a half re-watching the series (well, the god parts vis a vis a lot of season 2) as well as FWWM (and recently Missing Pieces) every single year, just about. Gleaning all sorts of meanings and allusions and different interpretations. The material is so DEEP. Lynch, like Kubrick, is essentially playing multi-level chess, and instilling meaning into so many layers. You could study the soundtracks of each episode and probably find fascinating things all over the place. Did you notice that Lynch is also listed in the end credits solely for "sound design"? With Twin Peaks you've got that hugely important level of sound, and the hugely important level of how things happen and are presented visually, and the set design, and the camera angles. Expressions on the actors' faces. Oftentimes there is real *meaning* in these places, and it's neither simple nor grandiose but just there. What I'm really trying to say is that I found SO FREAKING MUCH to look at it in just the first two episodes alone. I watched them both twice before I apprehensively clicked on the third episode And literally stopped 6 minutes in because what was happening was blowing my puny mind and connecting to so many different theories and ideas symbols and events that I knew I would have to start over on this episode and watch it when I could go through it all undistracted and after dark... plus get a better grasp of the first two episodes. This is just so much explosively creative Lynchian dreamscape (which has always felt scarily similar to my own dreamscapes) and I have been waiting SO LONG for this that.... Well, frankly I am going to be seriously, seriously relieved when we get on a 1-episode per week rhythm. I mean, we are gonna NEED that week in between episodes just to properly TRY to follow along with what's happening and why. As I said, I'm still working on the first two episodes. I'm still entranced by Mr. C rollin' into Buehla's to the sound of "American Woman" all chopped and screwed, looking like an even more psychotic Michael Madsen. Or the first call between Margaret and Hawk. Or the patterned floor of the red room opening up while the evolution of The Arm screams "NON-EXIST-ENCE!". Or the pure savagery and horror of the way Mr.C/BOB kills Darya. That punch reminded me so much of the way Leland would punch women he was killing. Anyone else notice that? I'm still hung up on what Matthew Lillard was doing with his face. Or the weird effect when Mr. C shot the guy's wife. Was that supposed to be awful CGI blood that left no splatter or something else? Cooper did say something to her about following human nature - is she another black lodge entity somehow, perhaps possessed. Is her husband? So... I'm still mentally unpacking all of this and fully getting my head and hands around it. I really am amazed at the people who watched all 4 in a row. This is strong medicine, and possibly the magnun opus of Lynch's career.. I suppose we'll see. To me, it's like 18 Birthday presents all lined up, and once you unwrap it'll always be unwrapped forever, so I want to unwrap them carefully, y'know? Oh, and I do want to underscore just how incredibly important the element of sound is in this series - and will continue to be. Sounds, odd sounds connected with objects or places have always been symbolically hugely important. In fact, the first sentence of the revival consists of The Giant saying the following: "Agent Cooper. Listen to the sounds" Advice we should ALL take for the span of this series, not just Agent Cooper. kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:27 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 14:17
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Have you guys... er, noted that the woman with her eyes stiched shut (and later with eyes of course and 'normal' backward speaking) was playing by freaking Phoebe Augustine? You might remember her from that magazine of taste and class, FLESH WORLD: Yeah, seriously. I'm sure the connection has been made before that the women with no eyes was played by the same actress as Ronnette Pulaski. But Cooper certainly doesn't recognize her (and probably neither do we). She is credited in the cast as "American Girl", which is a *fairly* odd way to credit someone as freaking odd as that. But I mean, there *has* to be some message being sent here, it's not as if Lynch would make an arbitrary decision to recast the actress who played Ronnette in a scene like THAT. But digging a bit deeper, it also makes me feel like the "American Girl" with her eyes stiched shut (or not stitched shut) is a benevolent force in relation to Cooper, and the "the purple room" or whatever we are calling that odd spaceship-ish... thing.... is also a positive place of some sort, at least for Cooper. Major Briggs showing up in the hallucination and it being makes me think of the Deep Space transmissions that Major Briggs shared with Cooper in the season 2 premiere. Could these "deep space transmissions" ultimately be coming from the Purple Room, in some way? I shall end with a FWWM quote that has likely been quoted already in this thread but is worth quoting again: quote:DONNA kaworu fucked around with this message at 16:43 on May 25, 2017 |
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May 25, 2017 16:32
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astronautism posted:The woman with no eyes was played by a different person, Nae Yuuki, according to the credits. Right, OK.. So the actress who played Ronette, credited as 'American Girl', was the second girl who could speak/see normally, not the first one who flips the switch and flies into oblivion. That makes a bit more sense.
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May 25, 2017 20:43
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I almost feel like the Chromatics would be a god updated house band though, I really liked their ending song in episode 2. Felt really perfect and like a could 2017 update of Julee Cruise in a way, though nothing could really top the perfect ethereal weirdness of Julee Cruise at the Roadhouse.
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May 26, 2017 00:04
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Hey, so... I am still working on episode 3, especially the beginning, which I am just not gonna really bother to spoiler tag bvecause I think we should probably assume that this thread is up to date with what has been officially released and people who are wary of spoilers should just be conscious about that. Anyway, one of the things I noticed that Mr. C seemed to know exactly (to the minute) when his time was up and when he was meant to be sucked back into the black lodge and I think that him being in a car and driving - on a road that was very conspicuously in the middle of nowhere, and absent any power-lines or streetlights. If you watch, ain't no powerlines anywhere near where Mr. C was driving. There is also the fact that Mr. C was conspicuously in a car during this period of time, and as we know being in a car protects you from lightning/live-wire and electricity in general. Electricity always wants to take the shortest path to the ground as possible, and if you are inside a car with your 4 tires planted on the ground any electricity's fastest path is to move outside the car and to the ground through the tires, hence a car is "grounded". If you look very closely though, after Agent Coopers exits the Purple room through the.... Electrical panel, whatever it was, we cut back to Mr. C and he's veering around freaking out and we keep hearing static and seeing that closeup of the cigarette lighter/electrical car charger - if you look closely it is actually morphing into what appears to be a normal-looking AC/DC power outlet let them that sucks up Dough and spits out Cooper, not a cigarette lighter. Very odd. I think Mr. C (BOB) was basically trying to take all the precautions he could, and it sorta worked and sorta didn't. Of course I still haven't seen the fourth ep so maybe this is answered somewhere there (lol, right). edit: I also feel, like, fairly sure that the whole thing with Jade and Doug in the house and the multiple hitmen outside were put there by Mr. C/BOB. He's had 25 years to prepare for all of this, after all. I would imagine this has something to do with Mr. Todd, the Casino Manager (or is he?) but I am fairly unsure. Jade give two rides. I have no clue how the drug addicted woman downing her last oxy with a glass of knock-off Jack Daniels telling her pathetic son eating Sardine scraps "ONE-ONE-NINE!" fits in. Obviously she means 9-1-1 and has it backwards but.. Yeah kaworu fucked around with this message at 12:19 on May 26, 2017 |
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May 26, 2017 11:42
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Escobarbarian posted:I think my new favourite quote from the episodes so far is "Jade give two rides!" The delivery is so loving perfect. Me too - I dunno why but the entire *exchange* was perfect, like... The absurdity of the situation, first - and the fact that Jade refers to herself in the third person and actually says, "You mean Jade's gonna hafta give you two rides now!?" and him taking so long to echo it back, and that sort of finally being the last straw where she's like "This guy is fuckin' GONE". And yeah, the delivery is just totally perfect. He somehow manages to say it without putting any emphasis on any single word in the phrase, while still saying it in a sort of obliviously innocent way. Does anyone else feel like, after watching those 4 episodes, they could just go back and watch the entirety of seasons 1 + 2 + FWWM and like... all kinds of new and weird meanings will be interjected into it? Frost is actually the one who has been meticulously consistent about the symbolism in the surrealist imagery, based on what I've heard about "The secret history of Twin Peaks" which I just ordered off Amazon because I'm hopeless  Apparently Richard Nixon owned "The Ring" for a period of time according the book. Special Agent Tammi Preston's notes are apparently written throughout the margins so it must have been done concurrently with season 3 to some extent. But anyway to my original point, like... I could live with just those four new episodes as the only new material for like, months. If David Lynch were instead releasing four 3-hour movies over the course of 6 years to wrap up Twin Peaks, I'd be so goddamn thrilled. Instead we're getting so much more, and it's just... so much better than expected. It is *so* rare that I actually get to say that about television. The last time I got this feeling from watching a television series was maybe... season 1 of True Detective, at times. Before that? Maybe Battlestar Galactica around the end season 3 or so I think, and before that maybe season 1 of Lost. It's just very rare you find yourself watching something that feel really.. new and out there and a little mind-blowing. Maybe I am over-praising it. But just letting it wash over you without thinking too hard is still an intense experience.
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May 26, 2017 19:26
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Escobarbarian posted:kaworu I love your posts and enthusiasm D'awww shucks  I'm glad some of my infectious enthusiasm is rubbing off, because it feels a little euphoric to me every time I watch one of the episodes again, it's still so new and fresh and there are so many approaches to the material! It's hard for me not to feel truly enthusiastic  I chose a bad time to quite drinking coffee, that's for sure - I hadn't had a cup in a month before this week. I forgot Twin Peaks was premiering though, so I'll quite at the end of summer again  It's so perfect that this season will run almost EXACTLY from Memorial day to Labor day, encapsulating all three months of summer.  I'm looking forward to coming home to a dark and empty house some random hot sunday night at 1AM, putting on a new episode of Twins Peaks that turns out to be balls-to-the-wall creepy and eerie and nightmarish as gently caress and it leaves me shaking, literally. I really expect something like that to happen multiple times this summer and it makes me so happy.Regarding the person who mentioned Kubrick influences (my god there are so many influences and homages and such to point out) but one of the things I noticed was what a Kubrickian vibe I got from a lot of the shots involving the Glass Box and its aperture. One of the first early shots we get in the first episode is (first) that absolutely gorgeous and sumptuous photography of NYC at night - whoever said that photography of that city has never looked more... lush, fantastical, magical. I couldn't agree more. And it actually reminded me of the few times I got an overhead view of the city at night in REAL life. The light had the same quality. I didn't even know you could *reproduce* that sort of detail in video photography yet, really. Anyway, back to my point. We get like... a POV shot slowly panning out (I capped it after it stopped panning for a moment before the cut) from the student's perspective, sitting on the couch on the raised platform and staring into the glass box and through the aperture in the center:  The camera cuts to a shot 180 degrees in the other direction of the person whose POV we were seeing:  Anyway, the combination of that POV shot flipping around like that in an enclosed space while everything is silent but for an electrical hum, it SERIOUSLY reminded me of some of the Hal POV shots we saw from 2001, when the two astronauts were in the pod and we were flipping between the POV of Hal watching them through the glass and that closeup of Hal's unblinking red eye. It just felt very reminiscient. Also, the shot that we get of Ben in that screencap - shot from slightly underneath him as he looks on, unblinkingly, with what seems to me like a version of Kubrick's "thousand yard stare" - he shoots his male protagonists in a very similar in many of his films at one point or another. Alex in the Korova Milk Bar in the opening shot of 2001, or Jack Nicholson in The Shining looking out the window, or Vincent D'Onofrio in Full Metal Jacket, and so on. I dunno if it's anything other than a little homage but it's a very Kubrickian series of shots, if I may use such a word. Also - on a random note I am sure people noticed Cooper noticing the "Sycamore St" sign while getting a ride from Jade (lol). I thought this was a very positive sign vis-a-vis Cooper's mental state, because he must on some level remember all the details of him time in the Black Lodge/Red Room/etc, given that the first thing he saw upon entering the Red Room in the finale was the Late Great Jimmy Scott doing his thing with "Under the Sycamore Tree," as I'm sure we all recall. kaworu fucked around with this message at 13:29 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 13:27
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chime_on posted:That establishing NYC shot was really cool, but it should be noted that Lynch didn't shoot that. It's just stock footage. Who shot it, out of curiosity? It does look like some other shots I've seen using like, ultra-HD cameras. Regardless of whether Lynch physically shot that exact footage, it's the whole package that counts - what precedes the NYC establishing shot, what follows it, what changes Lynch made to the color balance/density/etc to cause it to flow seamlessly into his own footage, the sound used during that shot.... There's a lot more to it than just who actually shot the physical footage of that particularly shot. I mean, it's really a pretty drat important shot, for a show that had been geographically very much chained to its titular town, and barring the use of other locations like Philadelphia or Deer Meadow (Twin Peaks' own dark doppleganger I suppose) in FWWM, it's the first time the show has really traveled beyond its own confines. It's brought home when we observe just how ridiculous and incongruous Cooper's key to his room at The Great Northern seems both to Jade and all of us watching in 2017. Just on a random note, this brings me back to a point I've been meaning to make about how different things are, well, ~25 years later. The way this revival is juxtaposing old Twin Peaks with this new material is just brilliant, because in a way it causes us to observe this world of Twin Peaks 2017 from an outsider's perspective - from Agent Cooper's perspective. We've been locked up in the Black Lodge with him in a way, and we're now emerging and catching glimpses here and there of just how different things are both in Twin Peaks and the outside world. How perceptions have keenly changed. Take Gordon Cole, characterized by Lynch mostly through his deafness and over-the-top shouting delivery. It was fun and it worked perfectly in the original series. Now, Cole's got an upgraded hearing aid and he can actually hear what people are saying (cossacks and carsickness aside). In fact, he can even turn his hearing aid way up and whisper to people, and become extremely hypersensitive to sound, to the point where the scuffle of a shoe on pavement is "like a knife in [his] brain". I think it's representative of how much more sensitive everyone has become to all sorts of things than they were 25 years ago. Back then, people still would let their kids play outside alone for hours, and kids were more independent - there weren't even cell-phones so parents could always get in touch with them or vice versa. Laura's abuse and subsequent downfall would have happened in an extremely different manner now than the way it occurred then. The shift of both technology and perception and overall public consciousness has been fairly extreme as a result of the digital age. And now I'm reminded of the odd "problem" that Lucy has with cell-phones, and how she simply just *cannot* adjust to the fact that people can be mobile and talking on the telephone at the same time, since her entire world (as we saw it last) revolved around working with the clumsy limitations of the telephone. And her perception of that apparently is unable too adjust. Makes me wonder what Cooper's adjustment will be like, ultimately. But this does seem to be something of a motif that shows up, especially in episode 4 I think. Or perhaps I'm imagining more things 
kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:54 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 15:34
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Data Graham posted:And then, just as the capper, you get Lynch as Cole yelling straight at the camera to "fix your heart or die" when it comes to transphobia. Haha, I forgot about this. I think Lynch was also kind of semi-congratulating himself on being progressive enough to even have HAD a character who was, for all intents and purposes, transgendered on the original Twin Peaks. Which is really so amazing when you think about it given that we're still pretty hung up on that issue as a society, stupidly. "FIX YOUR HEART OR DIE" is Lynch's perfectly succinct summing up of this schism. I will say that Duchovney's gravelly voice took me out of that scene, though, mostly because I actually know men who have transitioned and the process of training their voices to NOT sound overtly masculine is a really big deal and a really huge part of 'passing", and if Denise had really been on Hormones for 25 years and living as a woman, she'd be talking like a woman her age would take, especially after all that time. But I'm nitpicking a little. Also, Duchovney just ain't got that gorgeous pretty face and flawless skin like back in '92... Sad but true... kaworu fucked around with this message at 12:28 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 12:25
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Josh Lyman posted:From the original series, I got the impression that Denise was just cross-dressing, not actually undergoing a MtF sex change. You could be right, and I could be mis-remembering. My recollection was that Denise had been cross-dressing because of an undercover investigation, and discovered that she found life preferable overall living and presenting and dressing as a woman. Usually "crossdressing" is a term describing something someone does either for sexual reasons, for random fun (like halloween or a stage show or something) or maybe for professional reasons, like with then-Dennis in the FBI on the original assignment. But when someone dresses up in women's clothing and presents as a woman out in the world as an everyday thing (which is what Denise Bryson was doing in the original season 2 of Twin Peaks, as I understood), then that's basically a description of what transgenderism is, more or less. I mean, it was 1991/92, so obviously they were a bit clumsy about it, but it was handled originally with a pretty amazing degree of respect. Again, it's been a few years since I saw the original Denise Bryson scenes so I could easily be mis-remembering things. Also, I'm not really sure quite what you mean by a "sex change". Some transgendered people undergo surgery eventually, and some do not. All of them generally undergo hormone therapy on a long-term basis, which certainly elicits very real physical changes without any surgery. edit: And on a *completely* random note, all of this does have me going back and looking at episodes. Something I have been wondering about is water, and it's effect on BOB and all this "electricity" business. We all know that what triggers BOB leaving Leland via massive head-wound (and pulling the 'ripcord' of his consciousness supposedly) is somehow all sparked by being drenched by the water, and we all know the memorable confession scene that's almost baptismal with Cooper holding Leland in the water while he sobs and confesses. Curiously, I actually hadn't noticed Leland referring to BOB as "they" in that confession scene before. But anyway, it just got me wondering about water. And the effect that water and electricity have together, what with this travel via electricity being so important (yet also traumatic). I also wonder about when Philip travels via electricity in Fire Walk With Me. When he returns to the hotel, it causes the guy who had been carrying Jeffris' luggage to (apparently) poo poo himself and then cry out "ARE YOU THE MAN?! ARE YOU THE MAN!?" I only note this because of the electricity travel causing vomiting in the revival, but it likely means nothing and the guy just poo poo himself from the sight of a screaming David Bowie with blood running down his face materializing out of thin air with a sonic boom. kaworu fucked around with this message at 13:31 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 13:14
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Not bad! I always read the grandchild and the mask as an analogue for the Leland/Bob paradigm - when Bob takes over, it's as if Leland is wearing a mask like that given that when Bob is in control he cannot speak, and he cannot see, and he does not know what happens. And when the mask comes off he's Leland again, innocent Leland with no sense of what his evil BOB incarnation has been doing. I read or heard that analysis somewhere else so it's not mine, but it did make some sense to me. With the aged Laura revealing that her face is a mask for blinding whiteness, makes me think that this incarnation may be the first true "White Lodge" spirit that we've seen, or something - who the hell knows. Laura was heavily associated with angelic imagery in FWWM obviously most very prominently at the end of FWWM, and I always got the intention that Laura's soul/spirit/consciousness was not going to the Red Room or the Black Lodge or any place associated with that. There is pure white light in that scene too, where Laura is dying and sees the angel though not as blinding. But regardless, it's clear that whatever this aged and alive Laura is, it's openly serving as an avatar for some other force, and made that much known to Cooper and us. That Laura Palmer is a mask for something.... That's blindingly bright and we cannot see or understand. That's my take.
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May 28, 2017 17:15
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Under the vegetable posted:He's saying "AYÚDAME" which means "HELP ME" Now I feel like a serious damned idiot So much for relying on subtitles.
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May 28, 2017 17:22
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Under the vegetable posted:I mean, everything else you said is right. Haha, I appreciate it. Apparently it was a point of some contention because the line technically wasn't in the script, and it *is* subtitled as "Are you the man?" which clearly is, well, incorrect. I found an entire thread on a Twin Peaks message board discussing this topic for two pages, and yes, it is "AYÚDAME". Yes, Mike is the man.
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May 28, 2017 17:32
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Jumping back into the opening of Episode 3 for a moment.... I am almost absolutely certain (it is a little hard to tell with the jerky camera movements and the really weird lighting) but I am almost positive that *before* Cooper and Blind Girl step outside - where a flip is switched that causes both the lighting to revert to normal, the number and electrical socket to change, Ronette appears, etc.... But, er, where was I? Well, before that level is pulled (which also reminds me of a slot lever too, in a way) I am 99% positive there is *only* a lamp on the table nearby the electrical panel. But after Coop and the girl go up top, and the flip gets switched and Coop sees the ghostly image of Major Briggs say "Blue Rose" indistinctly - well, when Coop gets back down to speak to Ronette, there is now a small vase on the same table as the lamp, holding a Blue Rose. What I don't get is why it wasn't there before. I'm still just trying to little bits of understanding through this. Obviously 253 was a number the Giant told him, and that was also the time that elapsed on Ronette's watch right before the lamp switched and the electrical humming kicked in (probably meaning Dale could go through the, er, AC/DC portal I suppose in that minute and only that minute I think). edit: I was watching it with subtitles on Amazon and I thought they described the sound effects during Mr. C's vomiting spell as: *intense, ominous vomiting* *stifled crackling* But it turns that I misread as the result of two things be described... I actually only really saw the description "intense ominous vomiting" and it was such a perfect description I didn't question it. Of course, it turned out the verbs at the end of the two phrases ought be swapped to be accurate, but I think my version is better. There are few other vomiting spells in film or TV that I could describe as equally "intense and ominous", excepting the one perhaps portrayed in the film adaptation of Stand By Me. Even then, I don't think it's nearly as ominous as Mr. C's deadly and toxic combo of Garmonbozia and scorched engine oil and... Blood, I think? kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:00 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 14:42
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JazzFlight posted:I think someone also pointed out that 315 is his room number on his Great Northern key and the numbers on the electrical socket were 15, then 3. I'd also be curious as to what he exact date is when Cooper comes through and the BOB-manufactured Cooper is pulled in. Also, I had a brief moment of connection... Manufactured-Cooper briefly turned into an image (which actually seemed almost to be two-dimensional that, I *thought* looked a lot like the bizarre image we see on the Ace of Spades that Cooper showed Darya before killing her. And then he turns into a large golden pearl which shrinks into a smaller golden pearl. Only connection I can make is to "Pearl Lakes", which is indeed a place fairly heavily where associated with Bob. That where Leland got possessed, supposedly, and the family nearby was "Robertson". Wonder if we will meet people from the Robertson family, or if we already have. edit: And just about Cooper's vomit, it definitely does go from Yellow with definite kernels of corm (Creamed Corn/Garmonbozia) to black ("scorched engine oil" like from the pool at Glastonbury Grove?) and then to a mixture of liquid and yellow and black, and finally with *red* mixed in at the end. And I doubt in Mr. C's case it's Cherry Pie. kaworu fucked around with this message at 15:09 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 15:05
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On one last note, am I the only one who believes that as of the end of the Episode 4 - when Cooper finally receives that all important dose of coffee, it literally snapped him right back to being in the real world? Because the entire attitude and manner of his look and speech is TOTALLY different when he looks up almost grinning and says "Hi!" I think it's ultimately kinda like.. Popeye and his Spinach in a way, you know? It's been 25+ years since his last cup of coffee so naturally Cooper is an absolute *zombie*, and the moment that drat fine liquid just begins to go down his throat it's like a chain reaction, and BOOM. I know, it's a bit on the silly side of things and fairly off-kilter, but so is this whole series. The recent use of garmonbozia kind of shows that certain foods/drinks have v I dunno, I just think Twin Peaks is silly/quirky enough for something like that to be the answer. How the hell else is Cooper going to regain his memory? Not to mention, Lynch knows that Kyle Maclachlan needs to be *honestly* playing the good Agent Cooper that we know and love, and that he needs to get back to Twin Peaks. Lynch knows it is stupid to delay this and he's not doing this series to follow what the corporate execs say and stretch things out as long he can for multiple seasons to push the viewer's patience as much as he can before giving them certain things he knows are wanted and expected (Cooper in his right mind back in Twin Peaks for example). It is much more Lynch's style to give the viewer's what they 'want' very quickly, and then raise new issues and mysteries which leaves them wanting and thinking about something else entirely. This is where Buckhorn murder plot will really come in handy in terms of building dramatic tension, I think. There will be things going in Buckhorn, Twin Peaks, Las Vegas, and possibly still NYC which are all connected, but we (the audience) are obviously going to know what some of those connections may be. I guess you could add Red Room/Purple Room/Black Lodge/White Lodge/Abyss of Stars to other locations now  But anyway... All we really now is that Mr. C is involved in both Las Vegas and Buckhorn. Does anyone else believe that it was Mr. C who hired those guys to kill "Dougie"/Agent Cooper? I honestly can't imagine who else. Mr, C would have known exactly when Dale was transporting and who he has was switching with, and I believe the money exchanged in either episode 1 or 2 at the Casino had to do with this job, and the person Mr. Todd was describing whom his assistant would "never want in his life" would have to be Mr. C, I would think. kaworu fucked around with this message at 16:57 on May 30, 2017 |
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May 30, 2017 16:32
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*chews a wad of spruce gum defiantly in the corner booth* *spits it out and almost knocks over the mustard bottle, sticks it to the wall* *takes out a new piece and chews on it, and stares defiantly, waiting* 
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May 30, 2017 19:04
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el oso posted:Man, I really love that scene in the jail between Cole, Albert and Bad Coop. Coop's voice, the repetition of dialogue, the sound design, the creepy smile/thumbs up. Even after watching it twice, I didn't notice that he says, "It's yrev very good to see you again, old friend" until seeing it pointed out elsewhere even though it seems so obvious when you're looking for it. This is loving crazy and seems like it HAS to be important... There's actually a video of it and the demonstration of it is just.... even creepier because that whole loving scene feels SO creepy and wrong in what wonderfully Lynchian way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3I0fc9TYO8 I actually thought that Evil-Cooper was saying "Really very good to see you again old friend!" drat. I'm thinking the ultimate result of Mr. C/EvilCooper's deception might be that the Black Lodge starts leaking, which is kinda frankly what it seems to be starting to do for lack of a better word, between the NYC murders and the toxic effects of both Mr. C and his garmonbizia/oil vomit.
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May 31, 2017 10:06
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My Lovely Horse posted:I think that video could have made its point a little clearer, not everyone might get it You take what you can get. It was the first one I found and I just wanted to post a video with the line being said forwards and backwards so people could at least hear it for themselves.
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May 31, 2017 10:17
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CottonWolf posted:A lot of things would make more sense if Trump was a doppelgänger. "No, it wasn't my Donald, it was that...man I saw, disgusting long combed over hair and that awful FACE...." On a random note as well I always felt kinda bad for Frank Silva, the guy who played Bob - y'know, he was the set dresser on the pilot and Lynch caught him in the mirror and he accidentally locked himself in Laura Palmer's bedroom, etc... But by all accounts, like, he was the ABSOLUTE sweetest guy ever and wouldn't harm a fly. But man oh man did he play the HELL out of that role! Is it widely known by now that Frank Silva was gay, and died of AIDS-related complications? I'm not sure - my understanding was that he was never closeted, it was just that nobody really cared,as it likely should be... My haircutter of ten years (also gay, also had AIDS, also a sweetheart, also dead now ) knew Frank Silva when he lived in LA and would see him around all the time and liked telling the story of how EXTRA shocked he was at Twin Peaks because a friend of his was playing EVIL INCARNATE. It actually made Bob as played by Frank Silva a bit less scary to me, and now it makes the CooperBob even creepier to me.
kaworu fucked around with this message at 11:15 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 11:05
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Oh, I don't really feel bad for him; it's just that if you had aspirations to be an actor getting cast as this character who sort of represents not just evil, but the joy a sort of person might get in the act or torturing and murdering someone and also observing the anguish and heartbreak it causes (garmonbozia) - being widely known for that at the end of your life. I suppose what I really feel bad about is that he probably died a really awful and protracted death like most people who died of AIDS complications around that time. Unless you were Magic Johnson with a mountain of money, it wasn't just a death sentence back then - it was months and possibly years of ever-increasing pain and sickness that you know can kill you at any moment - horrifying. And (perhaps interestingly) he had contracted HIV well before he was working on the crew for the Twin Peaks Pilot and got cast as Bob. I occasionally wonder if knowledge of his own impending demise informed his performance on some deeper level. It really was an unbelievably scary time in the gay community, and I can't begin to imagine how awful it would have been to have contracted HIV in the '80s or early '90s. *shivers* So frankly I'm really glad he got to play such an amazing, indelible, unforgettable character. Oh! Here's some footage I unearthed earlier this morning of Frank speaking and taking questions at Twin Peaks Fest in 1993 (the second one and the only on Frank attended, this would have been shortly after FWWM). Probably some of you have seen this, I doubt ALL of you have...This footage is really fantastic, it's actually pretty high quality given that it's 25 years old and was recorded by someone in the audience I think. I'll post the part where Frank speaks, it's REALLY great and the only video (or interview in writing or otherwise) that I've seen where he really speaks at length. The only other time I'd seen him out of character was in a very short and low quality video with Anderson (or do we refer to him as The Little Man We do Not Name now?) and Lynch. Anyway, here's the video of Frank Silva talking/taking questions at Twin Peaks Fest in 1993 - the volume is pretty low so you may have to turn it up a first but it gets better when Frank actually starts speaking into the mic after a minute in, heh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4yAGRUqUh0 (it leads into Part 4 which is more awesome Frank. There was some interesting stuff here that I did not previously know. I also think his analysis of Bob in this video is absolutely spot-on and actually quite pertinent to understanding season 3. Bob may be a denizen of the Black Lodge, but unlike Mike or The Arm or The Giant, he seems totally uninterested in maintaining the status quo and would just as easily destroy the entire multiverse in order to get off on it, if he felt so inclined. Absolutely chaotic amoral personality. kaworu fucked around with this message at 13:21 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 13:11
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TheMaestroso posted:Lynch actually talked about how Frank became BOB in this video from ten years ago. You get the story from Frank Silva's side in the video I posted (remember to watch Part 4 as well as part 3) except in Silva's version he does a great Lynch impression edit: Holy poo poo! On a totally unrelated note, I just found out that my ALL-TIME FAVORITE Legend of Zelda game (Link's Awakening on the original GameBoy/GameBoy Color) was, in fact, partially inspired by Twin Peaks! No poo poo! Apparently there is this podcast where the director of Nintendo, Satoru Iwata, asks various longtime Nintendo developers questions about various games. He gets Takashi Tezuka and Eiji Aonuma together, both deeply involved with the Zelda series (the latter fellow being involved in the production/direction or pretty much every single Zelda game released). Anyway, here is an amusing snippet of conversation: quote:Aonuma: Whoa, here we go. (laughs) Iwata-san, do you know about Twin Peaks? No wonder that game was always my favorite! Oh man. And I can see the similarities when I think about the game, which I've actually beaten again a few times recently since I own it on 3DS and it's a fun game to just play on a long plane ride or car trip or whatever. It totally has an offbeat strange vibe that makes it very different and much... erm, less welcoming than other Zelda games. I find this soooo fascinating. edit: I confused myself writing this post and...yeah 
kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:42 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 14:00
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BeigeJacket posted:Do we know if Silva had training as an actor? I always thought he did an amazing job with an almost silent role. The way he used to move around - and I'm thinking of the scenes in FWWM where he enters through Laura's window - and his facial expressions, etc were stunningly effective. Well, frankly the one scene where he had to do "real acting" was in that absurd scene they shot as an ending for the Pilot where Coop, Truman, and One-Armed Mike go into the basement of the hospital and find Bob in "The Killer's Lair" where Mike shoots him and it ends. Frank Silva's acting was decidedly not all that top notch in this scene. But everything was up in the air during that scene and if you listen to the videos I posted, that was filmed at the end of a long day and Silva had never done anything like it and barely had time to memorize his lines. Once he knew what he was doing with the character and had a better handle on who/what he was actually playing, he did a *fantastic* job I think. Heck, even parts of the "Killer's Lair" scene were still pretty great, like his delivery of "I'll catch you with my death-bag, you may think I've gone insane. But I swear, I will kill again." But really, he was very talanted at exuding menace with his body language, and comportment. Using his face and affectations extremely effectively, especially when he'd throw back his head and do this scream/howl. Terrifying. There was always this wolf-like, stalking quality to him and his body language, too - yeah, probably had something to do with the long grey hair, I admit, but still. "Wolflike" is perhaps the best way to describe him, really. Kyle Machlachlan's portrayal of him is much less wolf-like and much more... reptilian. Which kinda makes sense, if Coop and Bob had merged. Coop was always a bit reptilian, from the way he wore his hair to his extreme precision, and the way that he seemed never to waste a single movement of his muscles - every action Cooper makes is deliberate and thought out, he never twitches or fidgets. And his Bob is the same way, but it's far more menacing in that case. kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:57 on May 31, 2017 |
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May 31, 2017 14:49
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You know, it's very funny reading the posts from Jerusalem, because (and I hope he's not reading this post yet) it's got to be very odd to go from FWWM and the end of season 2 straight into season 3. It just seems odd. Mostly because the passage of time is such a critical aspect of the plot in season 3. One of the really difficult things that Lynch had to pull off, was he had to simultaneously acknowledge the passage of time - how could he not? Actors age and even if they didn't you couldn't just pick right up with Cooper in the bathroom after 27 years. It wouldn't do! But at the same time, time also seems to have been standing still - to me, that's almost part of the point of the Red Room. I think it's important to refer back to Inland Empire in this case, because I imagine that time flows in The Red Room (and perhaps in season 3 itself as a whole) probably a great deal more like it does as Grace Zabriskie describes it in a scene from that film. "Why, if it was 9:45, I would think it were after midnight!" I cannot entirely wrap my head around what I'm trying to say, but I feel like what we had been witnessing was part of something cyclical and important and expected, and I think Cooper-BOB's actions are throwing things out of whack in ways that will gently caress with the fabric of the barrier between reality and whatever sort of dimensions or world(s) Agent Cooper was moving through from the moment he entered at Glastonbury Grove to the moment he exited a power outlet 25 years later. I'm also still unclear about the oft-repeated query, "Is it future? Or is it past?" If you forgot, this is also a question that The Arm asks Cooper twice in FWWM (or Missing Pieces, I forget). Regardless, it's a significant question in the Red Room, and I think it may be an even more significant question in "The purple room" or where-ever that was. Perhaps it's an even an important question in reality in some way we don't quite understand, yet. kaworu fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 00:53
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Kulkasha posted:So what are everyone's opinions on the Leland-BOB continuum? Was every crime all BOB (per the TV series) or did BOB simply catalyze Leland's desires (as is implied in FWWM)? That is fascinating you that you see it in those two options. And that you centralize from Leland/BOB's POV rather than Laura's. To me, the question is a lot more like this at a basic level: Did Laura *and* Leland create Bob as a coping mechanism, and if so which one of them, or does it matter? You know, fundamentally you really can do an almost entirely non-mythological reading of most of the show, and it stays pretty consistent and makes a *lot* of upsetting and disturbing sense from a victim's point of view. The basic fear that Laura has in FWWM, that she will inevitable turn into her abuser if she stays on the path she's on - I can honestly tell you that this is something that *everyone* who suffers extensive sexual trauma (particularly incest) has to deal with. And it is absolutely horrifying, and it does cause some of them to commit suicide. Nobody likes to think that pedophiles and child abusers are victims in this world, and especially not in this country, but the really sad truth (and it's a truth I have the utmost respect for Lynch/Frost exploring with the character of Leland) is that most of the people who commit these awful crimes - people who rape their children, for instance - this behavior generally comes from somewhere, and it's very frequently a result of trauma that *they* suffered as a child and never coped with or received any treatment for, or any of the compassion they likely deserved at the time when they were victims. I realize this isn't news to anyone here, and I'm obviously not justifying any kind of behavior here, just stating the sad fact that more often than not, childhood trauma begets more childhood trauma, in one form or another. And Twin Peaks does deal with this fairly heavily. I was actually re-watching the episodes where Leland murders Maddy and is caught again, and I was really struck by how the language in his dying confession scene could really be read in either direction when he talks about BOB. Leland literally says, "I was just a boy - I invited him in. He opened me and then he came inside me." I know it's gross and graphic to look at it in that context, but it's also the context of the show (cycles of trauma and abuse) and I think the fact that BOB can also be read as... The specter of untreated trauma, which festers and turns into unimaginable hatred and bitterness and cruelty which *really does* hide behind the masks of everyday people, everywhere. I think that's a totally legitimate and significant way to read the show, though. I think without the supernatural elements, it would be unimaginably sad and bleak.
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Jun 1, 2017 09:25
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DrVenkman posted:I saw an article the other day calling it Lynch's impenetrable masterpiece, when to me it feels completely straightforward, but in a way that people clearly think is disarming somehow. The thing that will never, ever stop creeping me out about Lost Highway is that the Mystery Man character was played by Robert Blake. In his last ever role. And it was just a totally out of the blue call from Lynch, he had never met Lynch or worked with him before. And bear in mind this was his LAST FILM in a very long career. A role he played only months before murdering his wife in cold blood. Did you know that Robert Blake did all his own makeup (and costume) for this film? As I recall that absolutely terrifying loving look of the character was ALL HIM.. Lynch gave him an idea of what he wanted and Blake just showed up dressed like that. Haha, oh man. I just found a quote of it from an interview - I wanted to bold certain parts, but I'd really just end bolding the whole drat interview. It's all kinda horribly scary and hosed up but also great. The whole drat article is worth reading if Robert Blake's experience on Mystery Man (in the sort of language below) interests you: http://cinefantastiqueonline.com/1997/04/interview-robert-blake-mystery-man-of-the-lost-highway/ Robert Blake posted:“I said, ‘David, I have some ideas about how this character should look.’ He said, ‘No, no, no! Just show me. Use your imagination.’ And I said, ‘Oh, yeah. That’s what Tracy said.’ I went off with the makeup people, and I got into this whole weird, fuckin’ Kabuki-looking guy with ears [sticking out] and stuff. I was imagining in my own strange world those times I have seen things that weren’t there, when a ghostly appearance occurred. I knew it was my imagination; I wasn’t really seeing something. But I sort of knew what the Devil looked like; I knew what Fate looked like. I used to have this image of myself that would come to me sometimes. I’d go out to the desert and get involved in some strange, isolated kind of thing, and all of a sudden I would come to myself as this white, ghostly creature. I said, ‘Oh yeah, that’s my conscience talking to me.’ So I started going with that. I cut my fuckin’ hair off, and I put a crack in the middle of it and all this poo poo. And the makeup people said, ‘You’re going crazy, man! Nobody in this movie looks like that; everybody looks regular!’ I said, ‘Leave me alone; just give me some poo poo.’ I put this black outfit on. I walked up to David, and he said, ‘Wonderful!’ and turned around and walked away. Haha, wow. Also: To the above poster, I don't see how Lynch's internal masterpiece could be anything but INLAND EMPIRE. I'm going to paraphrase a film critic here - in a way, Lynch has almost been making the same film over and over (with some notable exceptions, admittedly). They may have different plots, but they all share certain thematic and aesthetic similarities that are just like... in the DNA of these films. And it's almost as if he's been increasingly getting more and more abstract in expressing this story. The films I'm really talking about here are: Blue Velvet Fire Walk With Me Mulholland Drive INLAND EMPIRE You could include Lost Highway in there, too - maybe it should be on that list, but it's sketch) You know his tagline for INLAND EMPIRE? "A woman in trouble" - that could be the tagline for *all* of those 4 films. All of those films are sort of like... exploring and perfecting the expression of this nearly inexpressible concept. I always felt like Fire Walk With Me and INLAND EMPIRE had the most in common. They have VERY similar endings, both literally, thematically, and metaphorically. But I think he gets it across much more wholly, stylistically, and completely in INLAND. It really is his masterpiece because it touches on all those themes he's repeatedly explored. I always tell people when watching INLAND EMPIRE to just roll with it on their first viewing, and almost just view it as a series of vignettes - just let the images and the sounds and the dialogue wash over you, and take it at face value. Get utterly lost, just like Laura Dern's character(s). That's what I did when I first saw it in the theater, and to this day the scene on Hollywood Boulevard is arguably the most I've ever been simultaneously moved and utterly stunned/shellshocked. I'd gotten lost behind the marketplace, myself. Mulholland Drive was a bit too opaque at times - it's at its best when doing stuff like the Winky's scene, or the Silencio club scene. I always felt like the latter half was actually a bit heavy-handed for Lynch. But maybe it's because I dislike the way people try to come up with "the right explanation" or whatever, so I end up feeling upset about how others approach that particular film. kaworu fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jun 1, 2017 |
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Jun 1, 2017 14:09
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Polo-Rican posted:Why was these scene deleted from FWWM??? It's so good and i love how it shows how Leland is pretty intense and intimidating even in his "normal" state. Well... I can sort of see why it was cut, though I do like... I think that it's a bit too silly in tone for most of the scenes set in the Palmer household, and as such it sticks out about. I love the way that the editor of the fan-cut I watched of FWWM/Missing pieces added in Badalamenti's hilarious Norweigan Theme Music from the pilot to this scene, it fits perfectly. But these are exactly the sorta scenes that just get cut in movies. I mean, FWWM was pretty bloated at 2.5 hours as is, and it's really not meant to be a funny movie, at all. And the Palmer house is a place of horror and tension and stress in this film - ESPECIALLY the dinner table, which is a place where Leland repeatedly demeans Laura throughout the film, most significantly in the "dirty hands" scene which still scares me.
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Jun 1, 2017 14:35
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Just on a side note I don't know how you guys can stand those podcasts, I mean, I could dig it if I had some horrible menial work I could mindlessly focus on while listening, but like I don't... I was watching a youtube video of a couple guys discussing episode 3, and like, one of them has his loving phone out and is checking whatever on it while either the other guy was talking and saynig nothing at the same time or while he was doing it. And it's just like, gently caress. It's aggravating enough to have people doing poo poo on their phones all the time around you in real life but I don't have the loving time for this podcast crap that's going over info I can suss out in a fraction of the time it takes these gently caress-ups to summarize the episode and then try winding their head around whether there might be some sort of metaphor in the episode  I'd post the rolling eyes emoticon vomiting up smaller rolling eyes emoticons, if I could. Anyway, I dunno I just never seem to actually find any content worth truly consuming within a podcast, but then that hasn't always been the case so I shouldn't really be talking poo poo like this, I guess Oh, about Mulholland Dr, I wasn't lucky enough to see it in a theater but I did watch it again. I was truly struck by just how many different types of "doppelgangers" there were even in each separate phase of the film, and then the amount just doubles when you compare the doppelgangers *between* the two phases. One thing I noticed this time around, which I had never noticed before, is that "Camilla Rhodes" in the First Part is played by Melissa George, who also plays the blonde woman whom Camilla from the Second Part pointedly kisses at the humiliation party in front of Diane. I had just never made that connection before. And both time's she's a sort of doppelganger for Betty/Diane. edit: Random aside: I was watching a video of Lynch naming his favorite filmmakers/films, and the ones he says off the top of his head (in about this order) were: Kubrick, whose films he says he can watch over and over and over and over and never get tired of - he did not name a particular film. Billy Wilder, particularly Sunset Boulevard (of course) which he also says he watches over and over again. Then he mentions Fellini (naturally) and - and I *love* him for this - he goes out of his way to mention Jacque Tati and his comedies and that is SO great and SOOO true! I watched Tati in high school in my Film Club and it was really funny and subtle physical comedy that took its time, and I had never realized it before but it's such a dead ringer for the kind of physical comedy Lynch uses in his own films at times, especially in Twin Peaks. The last director he mentioned was Hitchcock, singing out Rear Window, which is, well, logical. What's amazing is how when a filmmaker answers these questions honestly, you really can almost see, er, how Lynch slowly developed his own style almost *on top* of those influences - but it's really quite spot-on. Take some Kubrick and Hitchcock, add a dollop of Billy Wilder, a dash of Tati's physical comedy, and a decent amount of Fellini's often uncomfortable surrealism, and there you go. I'm not saying this sums up Lynch, because if *anyone* is their own filmmaker it's probably Lynch. I think more people would "get" him if they actually watched Billy Wilder and Fellini, to be honest. I always loved Fellini's Satyricon in an odd way. It seemed quite Lynchian in how it often seemed purposefully opaque and making a point of the insignificance of the plot as merely an excuse to present something else entirely, an approach I've always kept in mind with Lynch. Like Fellini, Lynch always made a point of freeing his film from the constraints of traditional narrative. kaworu fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 11:25
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Escobarbarian posted:The gently caress discussion videos are you watching where the hosts are checking their phones in the middle of it This was idle thumbs, which I've heard are supposed to be good and which was mentioned and recommended in this very thread! Maybe they were having an off day or something but that was the last straw, the goddamn phone-surfing. It wasn't even that he was checking his phone, he was on it for like a solid minute before I turned it off in disgust god knows how long he kept using it. Idle thumbs indeed. I'd have been totally fine with it if he was looking up something for the show or using it in any show-related capacity, by the way. kaworu fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 3, 2017 |
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Jun 3, 2017 19:17
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Some great, great stuff in this episode. I also want to say that the slow pacing is a bit difficult for a weekly show like this, and I specifically did NOT watch all 4 episodes at once, but spread them out over 5 days, which sort of helped but it was still a LOT of Twin Peaks at once and I think it really spoiled a lot of us. The good thing is that there seems to be so much to unpack in every episode, that everyone should really take the time to watch the episode at least one more time, because a lot is obviously going on beneath the surface. In this episode, we actually found out a LOT. We found out that, interestingly, there have apparently been a series of *hoaxes* regarding people reporting information or fingerprints or *something* regarding Major Briggs, but it looks like some military branch of the government is so intent on information about what happened to him (or something) that they dutifully check out every single lead. That also links back to the FBI and likely Gordon Cole, but *possibly* something to do with Cooper/Jeffries as well. We are not really sure why this military guy feels dutiful about keeping the FBI specifically up to speed on the Major Briggs situation. The ring is HUGELY significant - I'm just not sure why. Now, what they found in Major Briggs' stomach was obviously Dougie's wedding band, right? What I find very curious about this is that in the brief period of time we actually saw Dougie (before he evaporated, turned into a scary-looking head, then exploded into a small gold sphere) he was wearing the *Black Lodge Ring* on his *left-hand ring finger*. I might note that it was the fingerprint comparisons between Original!Cooper and BOB!Cooper's *left ring finger* that Tammy Preston seemed so interested in. Not sure why? Regarding the black device, doesn't it look similar to the one BOB!Cooper used earlier when attempting to speak to "Philip Jeffries"? I mean to say, it was a black unit with two lights on it, as well, and it looked like BOB!Cooper was downloading tons of blueprints and info about that specific prison onto it. Also, isn't that the same federal prison that Ray, who supposedly has info BOB!Coop needs regarding Hastings (whom we still haven't seen in a while) is currently residing in? Anyway, there were several other little details but I'll get to them later. I have to say that I *don't* really enjoy a lot of the Dougie stuff - frankly, it makes me feel kinda sad and full of pity, partially because I've lost two grandparents to dementia and it reminds me of that, and it's just... really sad to see a character you love robbed of his vitality and his (pardon the on-the-nose term) agency as a human being. He is entirely unable to action of his own accord, unless it seems to involve coffee. He cannot even make the choice to urinate on his own, though. No human agency whatsoever, would perhaps be the philosophical term for what Our Cooper is suffering from. So it seems doubly significant to me that he responded to the word "agent" with familiarity. There were some sparks in the brain firing a little bit, there. I was intrigued to hear Janey-E mention "Are you having one of your episodes again?" Implying, to me, that perhaps Dougie has never really been "all there". The only other real proactive measure he's taken was the lying accusation, which seemed to be a result of a light of some sort on his face (was it green?) I've no doubt the character was lying, and I'm curious about it. I also wonder what the mailed Great Northern key will portend. It'll go back to the Great Northern, right? Hopefully it happens while Cole and Albert are there, hunting down Sarah Connor... Was a bit sad not to see Cole and Albert in this ep, but not too disappointed. My favorite shot of the night? Obvious the one with "Becky" looking up while riding in the car, with that terrifying trademark wide-as-hell and scary-as-gently caress Lynch Smile. We see it in literally every single thing he's done for ages, but it still just... grabs me. That was SUCH a purely Lynch shot, and so beautiful - her riding in the convertible, high on coke, looking at the sky with that horrifyingly joyful and empty grin with those blue as hell eyes reflecting the sky and all constricted,, zooming towards nowhere. So great. kaworu fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 16:09
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n4 posted:I'm gonna laugh when I gently caress you BITCH. I thought the guy in the booth (Robert Horne, really? As in Audrey's son probably maybe?) was kinda channeling Frank Booth a bit. And I did not intend that pun, but maybe someone did? Though it came off less creepy and more downright brutal, but that's creepy in its own right. Especially at the roadhouse where most Twin Peaks fans watching regard as a more or less "safe" place. Was a bit of a fakeout really with the way Lynch ended the last 3 episodes! I love that he does that, though. Episodes 1+2 ended with The Chromatics at the roadhouse (and they felt like 1 long episode, anyway) and then episodes 3 and 4 also both ended the same way, which made us feel like that was how all the episodes would end. I *thought* the episode was about to end and the credits were going to pop up any second because it felt like about the end of the hour and I was feeling just a bit disappointed. Then the show just kept going, unexpectedly, and we got a quiet credits scene with poor Agent Cooper standing in Dougie's clothes, looking at the foot of the statue. I agree that it makes me feel like shoes are important, like symbolically Cooper is "walking in Dougie's shoes". The funny thing is, it's probably better than walking in EvilCooper's shoes. I'm going to have to watch his scenes again and see if there is any more backwards talking. On another note, anyone notice that EvilCooper uses two different voices? Like, in the first and second episodes when he was moving through this seedy underbelly world, his voice was slower and deeper with a southern twang. But for example, when he used that odd radio device after killing Darya, he sounded almost 100% like the Dale Cooper we remembered. No accent, no slow drawl, etc. And then there was the bizarre quality of his voice in his chat with Gordon, which I still don't quite get. But in this episode he seemed to be back to speaking like regular ol' Dale Cooper. I gotta say that EvilCooper/BOB/Mr. C/whoever is easily my favorite character of this new season, moreso than the Dale who has been wandering around the Red Room and other such places, and walking in Dougie's shoes. It's just such a fascinating and brilliant way to portray the BOB character, to the point where I'm not even sure I've wrapped my head entirely around how brilliant it is. It makes me wonder, really, what direction and what sort of endgame we're really looking at. It's funny because my favorite fantasy series growing up (which I regularly re-read) is Ursula K. L Guin's Wizard of Earthsea series. There are 5 novels and a collection of stories in the series, but the first one is the one most have read or remember clearly. It's a fairly archetypal story of a young man who is a talented, but jealous and arrogant student of wizardry/magic (this was decades before Harry Potter and a very different kind of story), He winds up performing a very powerful spell that he cannot control, and in doing so sets loose a sort of metaphysical shadow of himself - the shadow is everything negative about the protagonist made manifest, and it pursues him ceaselessly in an attempt to take over his body and use it for extremely evil purposes. Sound familiar? The book is very much influenced by Taoism and the ideas and philosophies of eastern religions, so I hope I'm not spoiling things when I say that the first book ends with him learning to understand and accept the shadow as a part of himself, understood and accepted and simultaneously mastered and surrendered to. In a way, I wouldn't be *totally* shocked if something similar happens here. That he will not be "Special Agent Dale Cooper" as we knew and loved him again until all the different parts of him floating around - good and bad - are brought together in some way. kaworu fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jun 5, 2017 |
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Jun 5, 2017 19:40
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I thought.... Well, this is where I have to admit some ignorance, as I honestly do not know in fingerprint analysis how the software differentiates between a fingerprint hit in the database coming from a body or simply coming from prints that were lifted off an area of suspicion. Anyway, I don't think it's communicated to us either way what category the other "hits" were - I suppose it is most likely to presume that they were also dead bodies (presumably with heads?) that came up and were demonstrably NOT Garland Briggs for extremely obvious reasons. And if it were just his fingerprints showing up on doorknobs or in crime scenes or something, a comment like "it won't be him" or whatever would make very little sense. In any case, this oddly reminds me of season 2 of The Wire, and the way The Greek would dispose of bodies (no hands, no head). So I suppose we ought to hope that Briggs had some sort of identifying birthmarks or scars or other kind of marking on his body if we're really going to learn anything. And remember, we do now have multiple reasons why lots of people are going to be interested in DougieCoop soon. There's the Wedding Ring that Gordon and Albert are going to find, which should quickly lead them to the house with the red door. There's also the Key to Cooper's room (315) at The Great Northern, which (maybe?) is the missing item Hawk is supposed to be looking for. I'm curious about how the key being mailed back to the Great Northern works out - have we seen Audrey yet, incidentally? I don't THINK we have. On a random note, there was one minor complaint I had about this episode - Sheriff Truman being on the phone with the "sick" Harry Truman. I'm sorry but that just took me RIGHT out of the show and for the rest of the scene with Robert Forster I was just thinking about how "off" it feels trying to incorporate Harry Truman into the story with the actor absent. We know Harry Truman's not coming back - why bother making him "sick" and having other characters communicate with him reminding us of the (still, to me) somewhat awkward replacement of one Truman with another very similar Truman of the same age. On the other hand, writing that last paragraph out has made me aware that it definitely works with the ongoing and developing theme of twinning/dopplegangers, both literally and figuratively. Although, I don't see Becky as a 2017 version of Laura Palmer - the thing about Laura was that she *really* had two very different lives going on, and was extremely disassociated from herself in a strange way. She managed to pull off the "homecoming queen golden girl" act to the entire town completely convincingly, while being a prostitute addicted to over-the-top debauchery with gross and seedy bad men on the weekends and nights. I don't think we'll ever really get "another Laura Palmer" and that's almost as it should be, since she was such an indelible character. I will certainly admit, however, that there are allusions to Laura in her character. And the one image out of that episode that I *cannot* get out of my mind is her looking up at the sky, stoned out of her mind while sugary-sweet early '60s-era pop plays. I just.... cannot stress how much this image sticks in my head. I feel like it's the most important thing we've maybe seen in the entire series in a way, perhaps - this girl off her head blissed out and seeing god-knows-what through her starry blue eyes. It might just be that it's SUCH a perfectly encapsulated David Lynch moment, but I still just cannot resist it watching it one more time and... I dunno, it is SUCH a moment. I doubt we'll see much more of scuzzy whats-his-name driving the car (I hope) but I can't help but think that Becky's gonna be hugely significant.
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Jun 6, 2017 12:28
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G-III posted:Oh lord he's sticking out slightly from the edge of the mirror. Holy poo poo you're right, the face is literally leaning through the frame slightly, like from a side-view his forehead and nose would be like sticking out This might just be wonky CGI, but if it's foreshadowing then I'm going to be goddamn terrified if some Bob avatar ever climbs out of a mirror  flashbacks to the first time I saw Ringu long before the American remake knowing nothing at the start. That film always seemed like it had a bit of Lynch and a bit Cronenberg in equal doses which is what really makes it work - but just the original Japanese one, the filming style of it and the low-budget approach with a very flat color palette and liberal use of inky darkness in key shots, But anyway, yeah that's horrifying. Especially combined with the brief backward-talking in episode 4. I was sad we didn't see Gordon or Albert - so many characters! But really, some of these characters? We may not see them for 10 more episodes, whereupon they become major players for 2 straight episodes and then vanish. I think we have to be ready for that. Someone should make a big physical WEB of all the characters and their connections. Well, I suppose you could just make a PDF or something in photoshop that does the same thing but online, It would be be actually helpful to see all the connections visualized and cross-referenced with physical locales, of course.
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Jun 6, 2017 20:29
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eSporks posted:I remember someone mentioned that Tami might be noticing that Danzigs prints are a mirror of coopers. I re-watched the scene, and noticed this: poo poo! Good catch man. I mentioned earlier that I wondered about other occurrences of voices being reversed like in episode 4, and in the SAME drat POST that I was wondering why Tammi Preston seemed especially indicated in BOB!Cooper's left hand-ring finger print, and comparing it to his left hand ring finger print before he went to the Lodge, and noticing something was wrong. But I didn't pick up on it being loving MIRRORED. And yes, the left hand ring finger is both where the Black Lodge ring is always worn (at least by Teresa, Laura, Annie, and even the Nurse who stole it from Annie I think) and of course the "original" Dougie had it on his left ring finger where his wedding band should be, and the wedding band just turned up in the stomach of John Doe/Major Briggs in this episode. So lots of stuffs about rings in this episode. We got a phone here - it's got a little ring.  kaworu fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 11:23
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Oh, another thing - "The Cow Jumped Over the Moon" is a line from an old English nursery rhyme (primary - I'll get back to that) called "Hey Diddle Diddle". For info on it I suggest the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Diddle_Diddle On the other hand, I believe that the line was a reference to the usage of the phrase "The cow jumped over the moon" from the book The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien. Remember how incredibly important rings have become and continue to be in this series! The scene in question takes place very early on in the book (or early in the first movie, if you like) when Frodo (all-powerful One Ring in his pocket), Sam, Merry, and Pippin all arrive at Bree (a city of Hobbits and Men at the edge of the Wilderness) to meet with Gandalf, but end up meeting Strider/Aragorn instead. There is also an incident where Frodo rather makes a spectacle of himself by standing on the table and singing a longer variation of "Hey Diddle Diddle" of Tolkien's. He sings it *twice* in fact, and at the end of the second rendition, upon singing the line "The Cow Jumped Over the Moon!" for the second time, Frodo himself jumps up off the table... and puts on his magic ring and vanishes, to the shock of everyone watching. They find ways to rationalize it later as Frodo shows up, and Aragorn soon drags him off and gives him poo poo about it. But still, I'd go so far as to say beyond being nonsense, that scene in the Lord of the Rings (I don't think they were really true to it in the films) is the very first thing I thought of when EvilCoop said "The Cow Jumped Over the Moon." I just immediately thought, "Ah, there is an inn a merry olde inn where the brew a beer so brown..." Anyway, it's probably a bit of nonsense, but to me the fact that it brought to mind THE LORD OF THE RINGS while staring at Cooper, with Cooper staring at me, felt eerie and purposeful given the significance of not just rings, but The Ring within this Twin Peaks universe.. *shrugs* edit: And I want to add my increasing shock that people find DougieCoop largely funny. I mean, the scenes all have a certain amount of humor, especially the ones involving coffee, but I cannot be the only one who finds DougieCoop to be incredibly sad most of the time, especially on re-watch. Like the scene where he gets pushed and shoved out of the elevator and winds up alone, abandoned in his tasteless ill-fitting clothes, staring at a statue that (essentially) represents what he once was - an ace FBI agent and gunslinger. Remember, Agent Cooper was rather preternaturally gifted at firing guns, supposedly; "I put two through the eyes and one up each nostril." "Nice pattern." So given what it was, something about the image of this empty-looking old man in a green suit staring at a monument of what he once was is unbearably sad, and actually made me freakin' cry. I don't how much longer I'm going to find DougieCoop's emptiness funny. kaworu fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jun 7, 2017 |
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Jun 7, 2017 11:41
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I probably should add it's not like everything I post or postulate about the show is something I solidly believe, I'm just trying to sort through various connections in my mind and talk about the way it made me feel, and when he said "The Cow jumped over the moon" that is precisely the first thought that entered my mind - Frodo putting on the magical ring and vanishing. And it's a thought that strikes me as apropos to a lot of the stuff we've seen on the show.
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Jun 7, 2017 15:25
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