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I'm fully aware that this is going to make me sound like a whiny rear end in a top hat, but I'mr really not looking forward to re-litigating the "how terrible is BvS" issue once Wonder Woman comes out and is much more everyone's bag. Like it's going to take all of my willpower not to respond to everyone on the internet saying "finally, a good DCEU movie" with "i'm sorry you have bad taste".
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May 19, 2017 04:28
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Tenzarin posted:New ghostbusters got a 91. maybe you should check again, because it's sitting at 73 on Rotten Tomatoes as of literally 30 seconds ago (and 60 from Top Critics, which really should be the primary measure because any jackass can get on RT, but top critics are generally trustworthy)
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May 30, 2017 22:38
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Judakel posted:"On character terms, Diana stands apart from the previous DCEU heroes by simply being not human..." This is totally true though. Superman was born an alien, but he was raised as a human, in the human world, just like Batman. Wonder Woman was raised apart from the human world, and then retreated again until the events of BvS, so she's an outsider capable of making criticisms of the human world in a way that someone who lives within it might not be able to.
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May 31, 2017 01:27
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are you gonna quote Gorden Gekko and Tyler Durden next?
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May 31, 2017 02:38
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Judakel posted:Here is how dumb your point is: Superman so clearly identifies as a Kryptonian rather than a human that even his diary is written in Kryptonian. In his most private of moments he doesn't consider himself human. Even in the animated series. He has always been Kryptonian, which is key to why he is just a much better person than all the humans around him. It isn't Kansas. It is his dad. oh yeah, i remember the part in the movie where he wrote in his journal in Kryptonian, it was right after the part in the movie where lois turned into a black woman and Jimmy Olsen switched minds with a gorilla.
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May 31, 2017 04:22
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Judakel posted:You mean those awful movies? that is literally what we are talking about. this isn't BSS, that article is specifically about Zack Snyder's two Superman movies, why would I give half a poo poo what happened in one issue of a comic book?
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May 31, 2017 04:58
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I said come in! posted:Wonder Woman is the best super hero movie to date. Loved it. can we slow our rolls with this? Like, movie was real good, definitely better than any of the Marvel origin stories save Iron Man, Cap, and Guardians, but it's not the best one. I'd say from about The arrival into London until Diana leaves the village full of dead people is pretty perfect, and most of the stuff on Themyscara was very good also, but the ending was lame, and I thought the whole Diana walks in on Steve Trevor while he's naked scene was literally (like traditional definition of the word literal) the most cliched thing they could do. And I could have done with just a touch more of Steve's backstory. You get that he has an issue with his dad (who I assumed was a war hero or something) but he hung his head in shame at his past one too many times to not have it explained beyond "well i did something bad/shameful/lazy/whatever so now I'm trying to repent for that" which feels like it was added in to not make Steve Trevor just Steve Rogers with the edges sanded off. and i swear to god can we please be done with the whole IT WAS THE POWER OF LOVE THAT GAVE ME THE ABILITY TO KILL THIS GUY thing? They had done 95% of the work getting Diana to a point where she was motivated not by the loss of a loved one, but the sacrifice he made for the greater good, and then just decided to be super fuckin' lazy and say "nah he dead she sad she mad she win". Like I think I could remove about 10 words from the script and make it a million times better. Everyone in this movie had a real problem with just completely word vomiting their motivation (or having someone else do it for them) which I suppose was probably a turnaround from Man of Steel and BvS not doing that and everyone having a big ol' poo poo fit. And if that sounds like it is directly at odds with my complaints about Steve Trevor's Mysterious Dark Past, you're probably right, but I think fixing one of those two problems might make the other seem less prevalent. I will say that the end where Ares dying makes the war magically end did not come off as poorly as I expected from reading the spoilers before the movie. Taking place about a week from Armistice Day was the right call, but I still definitely have questions about what happened in this world in Germany post-war that still leads to WWII.
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Jun 3, 2017 23:00
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Tenzarin posted:Please, the movie used bullet time so sparingly and perfect it makes the matrix movies look like garbage. two of them already are, and i guess we're just gonna have to disagree about the other one.
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Jun 3, 2017 23:07
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I'm gonna be perfectly honest (regarding the ending/villain) from the moment Ludendorff got stabbed and nothing happened I immediately thought that Maru was going to be the actual Ares since she was the one actually inventing the weapon and the moment she actually first encounters Diana (the gala) she stares just as much as Steve Trevor does. I can't decide if I would have liked that better because even though I rolled my eyes when the old British guy was revealed as Ares, thinking on it makes it work better in my head.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:05
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Waffles Inc. posted:My wife and I were talking about how for a moment we thought the movie was going to take the gutsy choice of having her kill Ludendorff and not even have ares show up. I agree that this would be more thematically appropriate but the problem is that in order for Steve to make his sacrifice you need to have Diana distracted or otherwise occupied so that she wouldn't just go and save him. it would also make the movie just a little bit too cynical, even though I think where they ended up is too far down the other side of that.
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Jun 4, 2017 18:51
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Ferrinus posted:WW isn't real Greek mythology because they just gave lightning bolts to everyone who bothered to show up but that's supposed to be Zeus's thing. Unless Thundaga is just contagious? Not contagious, hereditary!
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Jun 4, 2017 22:00
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Brainiac Five posted:No, I am saying that there's no "encouraging humanity's worst impulses" going on, because the entire point of the movie is that Ares doesn't have to do that, indeed he explicitly encourages their best impulses, like peacemaking, because he's convinced humanity is inherently brutal and violent and will refuse goodness when it is offered. Is that why he gave Maru the poison recipe and whispered in the ear of Ludendorff? Or do you maybe have no idea what you're talking about?
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Jun 4, 2017 22:25
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Brainiac Five posted:They're the ones who decided to act on that information to do evil. That is rather the point- Dr. Poison isn't innocent, otherwise Diana struggling with the urge to kill her just makes her into a cartoon psychopath. But that's definitely not encouraging them to act on their best impulses. The only evidence you have of that is of his role as a general, and even then he directly undermines it by sending Diana and Steve after Ludendorff and the gas.
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Jun 4, 2017 22:52
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:This movie gets all the credit in the world for doing the whole no man's land scene where people are saying "it's called no man's land because no man can cross it" without having to be the sort of garbage movie that has wonder woman say "good thing I'm no man" (even if that still was the implication of the scene) it would be hilarious if, 70 years from now, "Well I am no man" were a famous quote on the lines of "play it again, Sam" (another line that was not actually said in the movie it is supposedly from)
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Jun 4, 2017 23:05
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me like 6 years ago posted:It's interesting to me that superhero movies have become so ubiquitous over the last 10 years that we now get films like The Dark Knight and Captain America: The First Avenger, which are ostensibly about their heroes but also crime dramas and period pieces, respectively.
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Jun 5, 2017 01:31
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Ape Agitator posted:Man of Steel gets called dark because they take the bleakest interpretation of common Superman things when given the option. Superman's bio-dad is killed right in front of his mom. She just bleakly watches the world end, turning to ash. They reinterpret the "joy of being Superman" element that in all other interpretations is just an audience enjoying moment to one of violence and melancholy. He leaves impact craters trying to jump, terrorizes flocks of animals just because. His early life is entirely couched in this idea of remaining secret. He idly watches his adoptive father die to a tornado and does nothing entirely for philosophical reasons, just consoles his mother as she watches her husband be carried away for the sake of a dog. The world is introduced to Zod not like a super villain but like a terrorist via prerecorded demands. Superman's introduction to the world isn't via some heroic act of saving people but the "heroic" act of putting himself in chains so that humans can decide what to do with him. And humanity trades him away for safety (faith in humanity that his father talked about being less than he'd hoped). We don't negotiate with terrorisits but we do negotiate with intergalactic terrorists. Then they bring up Terminator 2 imagery and have Superman drown in a sea of skulls. They threaten and toss around his elderly mom. And, of course, the final segment revolves around the genocide of either Superman's species or humanity and Superman chooses genocide for his own people. I still don't know if "dark" is the right word though. I think "modern" or "grounded" or "realistic" would come to my mind before "dark", though what you're saying is all very correct and after watching BvS again today, I think I would call that one a dark movie. I think both of them, despite the general consensus that seems to have built up around them, are deeply sincere movies. Snyder has developed a reputation as someone who makes ultra-violent, cynical, dark movies based off of stuff like Dawn of the Dead, 300, and Watchmen, but I think Man of Steel doesn't have that same level of cynicism at it's core, though because it still looks like a Zack Snyder movie, people just kind of carry that over. It doesn't completely redefine who Superman is, it just takes the archetype and places it in a setting very, very reminiscent of our world circa 2013-15, and doesn't treat it's audience like children by making Superman into a cartoon. The problem there is that when people go to comic book movies, a lot of the time they are not looking to connect the world they're watching on screen to where they're currently at, they want to escape. Man of Steel is not a movie for escaping, and nor is BvS. They are very close to home politically speaking (to the point where they definitely hit you over the head with it, i.e. Zod's terrorist message, or the end of MoS with the drone). Also, the color is definitely not "washed out". Both of Snyder's Superman movies tend to be monochromatic from scene to scene with accent colors (red being the primary one, obvi), but there's a very wide palate, and it's all very sharply shot. Blue scenes are blue, yellow scenes are yellow, sepia scenes are in the past, and so on.
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Jun 5, 2017 03:15
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Hollismason posted:Donner's Superman does have self doubt. yeah he spends a good part of the movie literally not being superman because he'd rather be with Lois, the self-doubt is there.
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Jun 5, 2017 04:40
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Sir Kodiak posted:And we see this in Batman v Superman as well. But the thing that I find more compelling about Snyder's Superman is his doubts about what he can even do to help the world, how he can turn being a very strong man into being someone who can change the world. Apart from destroying otherworldly threats, that is. Less the desire to just live a normal life stuff. It's the difference between "should I sacrifice my own happiness to do the right thing?" and "is what i am doing even the right thing?" edit: Snowman_McK posted:So he roofies her for her own good, and they breeze past the sad stuff, and that's better. it was the 70s man, it was a different tiiiiiiiime
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Jun 5, 2017 04:53
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Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah. Nothing against the former, but it's already well explored in superhero movies. X-Men The Last Stand, Spider-Man 2, Dark Knight Rises (to an extent), Superman 2... Interestingly, the MCU has stayed away from that particular trope, probably for the benefit of everyone who was sick of it.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:05
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Maxwell Lord posted:Well, I mean, if we take the end point of what we all want is the destruction of the capitalist order and the abolition of want and poverty worldwide... I mean it's POSSIBLE they could get away with that but I'm not convinced that's the direction the DCCU is going. ironically, looking at the opening Krypton scene today, it very much looks like Jor-El was a leftist Kryptonian scientist who was right about everything (re: climate change and alternative energy), and Zod was basically Krypton Richard Spencer, and both of them hated the government for being useless but Jor-El wouldn't work with Zod because of his weird fascination with bloodlines and purity. Unfortunately, the Syfy series Krypton will probably not explore that very fertile story base for their show because it is written by David Goyer, who one can definitely surmise is probably not the biggest fan of leftist politics.
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Jun 5, 2017 05:38
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Mandrel posted:Isn't there both a comic book movie thread and a Batman v Superman thread for dudes to have pedantic arguments about Snyder and those movies in it's not our fault that MoS is more interesting than any major blockbuster that's come out in the last 4 years and also I think the BvS thread is gone
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Jun 5, 2017 06:24
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Halloween Jack posted:Well Zod is actually sympathetic, because he's no more obsessed with bloodlines and purity than the rest of Krypton. He was created to preserve a status quo that was destroying itself, and the fundamental absurdity of that drove him insane. By comparison, radicals like Spencer are just cheap charlatans. I don't think he's sympathetic because of the former, but being created to be a military general specifically does probably gently caress with your head. Richard Spencer doesn't have a genetic excuse for being an rear end in a top hat. Again, I'm sure we get very little of this in the Krypton series, which will probably be really lame between being on Syfy and being written by David Goyer. Though, weirdly enough, Goyer wrote a Superman story about him renouncing his American citizenship that made conservatives super loving mad, so his politics are probably slightly more interesting than I give him credit for. On the other hand, he did still cowrite Dark Knight Rises, which is a muddled-rear end movie no matter how you look at it.
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Jun 5, 2017 06:39
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Vegetable posted:I loving cried when Wonder Woman leapt from her trench and charged the land of no man. Nothing from superhero movies I've seen have captured the sense of heroism so acutely yet. Invulnerability is a big part of the recipe, you idiots. No Superman taking a Gatling gun to the face and eye in Superman Returns?
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Jun 5, 2017 17:50
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Jose Oquendo posted:"After negative results from test-screenings, a new ending was added in reshoots where Diana remains protective of humanity throughout the years." they don't mean "protective" as in "she goes out and helps people" they mean it as in "well I think people are still good" which is ironic considering Bruce Wayne gives a remarkably similar speech to her at the end of BvS which is when she mentions her sabbatical, which I guess is just going to be ignored.
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Jun 6, 2017 03:36
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Brainiac Five posted:Possibly they mean the frame story was added later, because the ending is exactly as they describe the original to be. nah, I think the original one is more Wonder Woman leaving the world of man in disgust at how lovely we all are instead of being sad about Steve Trevor but talking about the power of love *blingee blingee blingee*
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Jun 6, 2017 03:40
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Charlz Guybon posted:When I saw the end scene I got the impression that she realized after the war that people had both dark and light in them and because of that she had to protect them. Basically retconing that this was a realization in BvS. Diana Prince: A hundred years ago I walked away from mankind — from a century of horrors. Man made a world where standing together is impossible. Bruce Wayne: Men are still good. We fight. We kill. We betray one another. But we can rebuild. We can do better. We will. We have to. At the end of WW, Diana basically says exactly what Bruce says here, but in a lot more words.
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Jun 6, 2017 04:41
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Brainiac Five posted:Of course, she's saying that after that conversation. That is true, but they really needed to make that clearer. I didn't make that connection until someone (you maybe?) actually brought it up in here. I wish she had said something about "sacrifice" rather than "love" because the latter, combined with Steve telling her that he loves her before he goes off to die, kinda conflates romantic love with love for humanity, which can be related but are definitely two separate things here. The notable thing about Steve Trevor is not that he loved Diana (because she definitely felt loved when she was on Themyscara, even if it wasn't romantic love),it was the sacrifice he made despite being a human and despite the negative tendencies of mankind that Diana was awakened to over the course of the movie. That sacrifice directly correlates to Superman's sacrifice at the end of BvS, but because they show us exactly what Steve's last words to Diana were ("I love you"), and Diana talks about love in her big wrap-up speech, it doesn't really jive with her loving off for 100 years until Superman comes into the picture. One mention of her coming back into the picture because she saw the same selfless heroism in Superman that she saw in Steve Trevor all those years ago and it would completely jive with what she says in BvS. edit: what *really* would have wrapped it up perfectly is Diana going away because she sees what goes on in Germany post WWI and sees that humanity really hadn't changed despite Ares' death and Steve's sacrifice, and she becomes disillusioned. DC Murderverse fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jun 6, 2017 |
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Jun 6, 2017 05:19
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Charlz Guybon posted:They also wanted to leave it ambiguous so they can have a sequel in the time gap if they want. This is understandable. Charlz Guybon posted:I'm pretty sure that they purposely removed explicity linking it to Superman's sacrifice in BvS because the audience didn't like that. This is totally loving stupid (not you, the people who took it out). It makes so much sense in the story that it feels like a missing piece when they don't acknowledge it. test audiences are dumbasses.
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Jun 6, 2017 05:43
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parcs posted:but i mean the film does not deserve an imdb score of 8.2. another film with an imdb score of 8.2 is Heat, and this film is nowhere near the quality and caliber of Heat. IMDB is a website filled with dumb nerds. Their top 20 features two LotR movies, two Star Wars movies, Fight Club and Forrest Gump along side actual classics like 12 Angry Men, Seven Samurai, and The Godfather parts 1 and 2. The Shawshank Redemption is not the greatest movie of all time.
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Jun 8, 2017 04:31
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Drifter posted:Hey, Forrest Gump is really fun. forrest gump can bite me
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Jun 8, 2017 04:49
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Screw those LotR movies, though.