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Reminded of a BTAS episode which stated/implied that Gordon could probably find out Batman's identity with some investigation if he really wanted to, but deliberately doesn't so as to maintain plausible deniability.
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Jul 16, 2017 05:56
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Did Diana even bring a scabbard?
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Jul 18, 2017 04:04
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Well obviously you can't have everyone holding their weapons the same way, it looks weird. Diana may get a pass because she has a sword, not a gun.
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Jul 18, 2017 11:24
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Well it is depicted within the story on screen, just only in a language 8000 people in the world can understand. That's pretty cool. The multicultural mercenaries accompanying a superhero into the Great War does sound like a Golden Age era comic that was never written. (and was less incredibly racist)
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Jul 19, 2017 17:06
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A lot of people seem uncomfortable with outside material or subtle implications that significantly change the themes of a film when put in context. I think it's something that should be embraced, if only because it gives you more to talk about. Besides, incorporating mythology from marginalised cultures, even in bit roles, with a degree of respect and research equal to their more well-known Western counterparts, is probably a very good thing.
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Jul 20, 2017 07:10
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Alan_Shore posted:I totally agree, it's an utterly pointless addition! Amazons aren't all gods, it was made fairly clear they're 'merely' unaging mild superhumans, like Tolkein's elves. And they did pretty well against WW1-era Germans considering they'd never seen guns before and probably hadn't fought a real battle in millennia; with the aid of only one man who knew how to use guns they wiped out the Germans pretty quickly. Also; no relevance of a god of a displaced, reduced people working as a petty profiteer on the Great War running into a naive junior goddess who thinks she can make everything better by herself, and the last of the great Olympian gods coming to a clash over who gets to embody conflict in the 20th century? He's basically in the position Diana is by BvS.
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Jul 20, 2017 11:23
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I do like the implication that Ares has total dominion over weapons and instruments of war; the sword disintegrates on contact with him, and he telekinetically controls the parts of a tank.
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Jul 20, 2017 14:27
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The lasso wasn't locked away never to be used though, they brought it out to use on Steve. It's a magical tool that can be demonstrated to work reliably, and has relatively mundane uses. Does make me wonder where Wondy got her sword in BvS. Did she find another ancient magical sword? Is it a normal sword that she empowered with her magic? Did she commission or forge herself a brand new blade with modern techniques and materials for the hell of it? I think the last one might be the most fun, but I'm crazy. They'll probably explain it in the sequel.
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Jul 22, 2017 13:27
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There's a middle ground between Superman bulletproof and regular person. Guessing bullets may not kill her but still hurt like the dickens.
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Jul 23, 2017 09:56
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Congrats on making the great discovery that characters are exactly as powerful as the writer wants them to be at any given time.
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Jul 23, 2017 12:37
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Wonder Woman's backstory is pretty inconsistent in the comics, and there's no exact precedent for the movie's situation, so what she does until BvS is totally up in the air. Also, Ares isn't Zeus's brother, he's a son of Zeus and Hera. Wonder Woman, the last daughter of Zeus, is his sister. (well, half-sister, which may or may not matter with gods. Also, who knows what they did with it in the movie) Diana, despite being named after the Roman version of Artemis, actually is basically a less provincial Athena; goddess of wisdom, truth and defensive war.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:50
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I kinda get the impression that Amazons are basically a race of unageing female Captain Americas; at the top scale of humanity physically without having to try, but still mortal and vulnerable when overpowered or mobbed- it is mentioned that they were enslaved by humanity in the past, hence taking refuge in Themiscyra.
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Jul 24, 2017 08:44
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I vaguely recall his Daredevil sleeping in a coffin with water in it, presumably a sensory deprivation chamber.
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Jul 25, 2017 09:17
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Ares certainly makes a shitload more sense being cast as a Satanic figure than Hades who normally is. War is hell, after all. And some depictions of gods of war aren't too far away from Khorne. Does make me wonder (ha!) if Diana will have a near-death experience and run into Hades at some point. I like to think they'd get along.
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Jul 30, 2017 11:00
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Voice acting is a small, strange world.
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Aug 1, 2017 05:00
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Wondering if Wonder Woman's having Titanic-style legs with repeat viewers, or it's just really popular with women. Or both. Is Wonder Woman the Iron Man of the DCCU?
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Aug 9, 2017 06:03
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Random thought, but I'm hoping they feature the Amazons more in the DCCU. One issue I've seen with Wonder Woman depictions is that Themiscyra is usually a place where she's from and rarely a place where anything else is from. (And stuff actually featuring the Amazons has been... mixed) Compare to how Superman's stories all like to involve stuff from Krypton, one way or another, with a dead world's survivors and wonders still impacting the universe. There's definitely room for other Amazons that may follow Diana out into the world for whatever reasons. Good, bad, or happening to be the only hetereosexual Amazon (even if the Kinsey scale leans them towards bisexuality, there's gotta be at least one) and destined for Shenanigans. Also other magical stuff. Given comic book movies like to condense and add origin ties, what magical/mythological villains and/or heroes could be connected to it?
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Aug 11, 2017 12:29
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She guarded that with her life.
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Aug 13, 2017 19:48
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I think James Cameron kinda lacks the language for what he's trying to get across here, aside from that Strong Female Protagonist kinda just doesn't cut it anymore. Wonder Woman being super naive as someone raised in a literal magical land by immortal magic ladies was a pretty interesting take on it. (weirdly enough that makes me think of Steven Universe)
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Aug 25, 2017 06:06
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'Strong but emotionally crippled' has kinda been the overdone thing, yeah. Wonder Woman's characterisation actually has meaning and an arc for her movie, tieing into her previous appearance (where, notably, she plays off the definition of 'strong but emotionally crippled man' and a man whose only real vulnerabilities are emotional or thematic attachments to his lost home) Furiosa I wasn't so sure about, but Fury Road tends towards the minimalist with its characterisation, and the arc is more both men and women having to get over their deep distrust of pretty much everyone else in the world to form a strong enough alliance to fight back against a trio of tyrants and their slave-warriors.
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Aug 25, 2017 06:57
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You know, on second thought, I think they're both barking up the wrong tree. Wonder Woman's telling a story about a different kind of woman than one who has to overcome adversity and physically superior enemies to protect what she cares about, but about a woman who already has power, and she has to learn to understand her power, the ramifications it has on the people and world around her, and how to use that power responsibly. Which is obviously a pretty familiar narrative for superhero stories, but it's not a story that a woman usually gets to be the protagonist of. (Maybe Frozen? Though that one's still all about her overcoming emotional issues and rejection, which is a different kind of story altogether. Still, women liked it)
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Aug 25, 2017 08:42
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And actually on reading that, he seems to have forgotten that Wonder Woman is a superhero. It's like complaining Batman and Superman can't be good characters because they're too handsome and powerful. It's okay to have larger-than-life, not-quite-human characters doing cool things where the thematic focus is about their great power and its use rather than shooting things while covered in mud and/or grime.
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Aug 25, 2017 14:12
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I was just about to bring up that Dances With Avatar Lady wasn't really much of a point given the utter clicheness of it all And there was basically Vasquez who joins the good guys and dies That movie couldn't kill the only interesting characters fast enough
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Aug 25, 2017 17:45
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I heard they're going to bring back Quaritch as well as a clone or something. You know what, I hope they get absolutely silly.
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Aug 25, 2017 17:59
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Tenzarin posted:Beatrix Kiddo, assassin, martial arts master, mother. Tarantino is... another story. Though last I checked he pretty much specialises in minority revenge porn lately, which is also a lot more thematically interesting, so it's all good.
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Aug 26, 2017 04:48
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I recall something... I think it was, ironically enough, Whedon saying around Avengers that superhero movies jumped a little early into postmodernism and deconstruction before they'd barely established themselves as a genre, you've got to actually establish a status quo before you start breaking it down. Of course, at this point, it's pretty well established. I don't think it's fair to get too harsh on the film for not being transgressive enough when it's about a woman in a role that women have absolutely struggled to actually get representation in, as a power fantasy, even if there's problematic aspects to it, it's trying to make up for decades of being behind what men have taken for granted. All the more impressive because Wonder Woman in particular has struggled with having a defining story and characterisation compared to what other major superheroes have. Unlike the failed, derided and forgotten Ghostbusters: Answer The Call, the Wonder Woman movie has succeeded in making a great impression upon its audience, giving definition and meaning to a character who struggled to have a proper identity until now. I think it deserves kudos for that while recognising its problems. Of course, when Wonder Woman 2 comes out, we can all start bitching about it not pushing the envelope anywhere near hard enough. Unless they go really nuts with it. Which would be rad.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:44
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And yet they hadn't managed to score it yet.
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Aug 27, 2017 03:59
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I mean one that women actually liked.
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Aug 27, 2017 05:30
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I know this is CineD and being wilfully obtuse is an art form here, but it should be obvious that 'superhero' is its own genre, and an increasingly significant one to the collective mythos of pop culture. And come to think of it, Diana is one of the first action movie protagonists full stop who comes from a loving family with role models she looks up to.
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Aug 27, 2017 06:57
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...I'd try to explain the definition of a superhero to you lot, but I have a feeling that's going nowhere. Though a replacement for Jesus Christ might be necessary given how most established religion is, despite the flavour text of love and caring, a hollowed-out shell for patriarchal sexism, bigotry, greed and xenophobia as far as many people under 30 are concerned.
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Aug 27, 2017 17:58
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Maybe you should go to a feminism thread and ask them yourself why women are so excited about this apparently redundant 'superhero', SMG.
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Aug 28, 2017 15:38
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Tenzarin posted:The movie is pretty close to terminator. Perspective-flipped? (and instead of from the future, the indestructible killing machines are from the past!)
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Aug 29, 2017 06:19
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I would suggest reviewing the thesis of the Simpsons episode 'Kamp Krusty' before thinking that the idea of the 'superhero' is broad enough you can count any protagonist as one, and that symbols are interchangeable. Literal children aren't fooled by obvious substitutions, you can't replace a lost toy with one of very vaguely similar colour. Names and symbols matter.
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Aug 29, 2017 07:13
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Any indication as to what artifact they're talking about? First thought, maybe the Mother Box that would eventually become Cyborg.
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Aug 29, 2017 13:55
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Every in what I remember of the cartoons (and oddly enough, also in Marvel) Ares is a god and also a real, physical entity. The physical aspect of Ares is in London writing a treaty that'll make peace into a ten-year armistice, while literally in spirit he shadows the German leaders and most insane scientists whispering ideas for horrific superweapons and atrocities into their heads. They made it pretty clear that while he admits that he's basically an allegorical character, he's also an actual entity within the movie's movie. This is a world where box-shaped alien supercomputers, crocodile-men, mad billionaires who dress like bats and aliens who look exactly like humans except for that they become godlike under a yellow sun all exist. One of the key conceits of superhero movies, especially historical ones, is that the line between allegory and reality doesn't really exist; superheroes and supervillains are manifestations of ideals and concepts and problems and are also living, breathing people with hopes, needs, and brain problems. Like, this is the New Gods' entire thing, and they are hinting at Darkseid, the Satanic embodiment of tyranny, fascism and utter subjugation of the self pretty heavily. (The Anti-Life Equation is basically an inverted alchemy, instead of seeking eternal life, resurrection and wealth, Darkseid seeks what will put all under his control through transcendental magical science) Diana thinks she was sculpted from clay, but it turns out nah, one of the last things Zeus did was gently caress Hippolyta (he died like he lived) to conceive the last and youngest of the gods, one who can grow up into something the world needs now. (Plus, I think that Diana as the last of the Olympian gods might be deliberately similar to the Last Son of Krypton) I also find it interesting that Diana works at the Louvre. She probably feels at home there, being basically an antique herself, though it also has some amusing irony when she thought she was originally a clay statue. She takes care of ancient and rare things, and may well have spent the last century being magical lady Indiana Jones hunting ancient artifacts and magical weapons to keep them out of the wrong hands. (It belongs in a museum! And so do I!) Which also might be played interestingly as she's then the representative of all that is ancient, compared to the Man of Tomorrow, the billionaire who fights evil with only the best money can buy, the particle accelerator accident and the literal cyborg. (Though no idea about Aquaman)
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Aug 31, 2017 06:42
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It's kinda metaphorically correct in that Diana wasn't just conceived and born, but made, created to be a weapon capable of surpassing
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Aug 31, 2017 10:19
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ruddiger posted:Like Iron Giant, but with acceptable murder instead of "I am not a gun." Sadly, not every movie can be The Iron Giant.
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Sep 1, 2017 04:53
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Schwarzwald posted:The story about Diana being crafted from clay was originally meant to contrast with the creation of Adam and Eve. Specifically, being forged from clay puts her on equal footing with Adam, who was "formed [...] from the dust of the ground." Which comic? WW's had a fair few contradictory origin stories, I thought being sculpted from clay was the original one, I heard being strongly implied to be a child by rape from Hercules was more recent.
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Sep 3, 2017 06:11
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There's worse things than to be typecast as the Wonder Woman who broke Wonder Woman out of awkward obscurity into a blockbuster star. At the very least, she can probably ride the convention circuit til she dies.
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Sep 7, 2017 15:15
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Tenzarin posted:To make it interesting they should have her on the side of the Nazis. Trying to make humans a better race unlike Ares and only have the nazis abuse her help. The rumours that she would be fighting the Soviets have given rise to some entertaining possibilities indeed.
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Sep 9, 2017 03:46
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