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My overall point remains. People who are going to reload at any setback are just going to reload regardless of how minor you make the penalty. If they were going to reload for the pilot being killed, they'll reload for the pilot being out for 3 missions. There is no way to convince someone who does not want to eat a penalty that they have to eat that penalty. You do not design your system based around people who will reload to prevent it, you design your system to be fair to the people who choose not to reload.
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Jun 2, 2017 18:28
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Sarsapariller posted:I feel like the best way to make pilot death matter is to give the player some way to mitigate it. Be it a medic skill, or an eject mechanic, or something- the game needs some element that lets the player make a choice related to pilot risk. As it is, every time you put them on the field you are just rolling the dice on whether or not they come back alive. That's not terribly engaging. I feel like having to decide whether to bail on that Atlas with mostly intact armor but 4 wounds, saving the pilot but losing use of the mech for the remainder of the mission, would add a lot of tension. I'm fine with adding some way to try and shade odds in your favor or whatever. I don't particularly like an Eject mechanic (necessarily) if only because then you open up the Salvage can of worms about what condition you get the mech back in, and if you take the field but it was a hit and run mission or whatever. Solvable, but again doesn't really get past the save scumming issue. Maybe make it a longer term gamble? The first time they're "killed", they come back with one less pilot wound when they're ready for action again. Sure, that makes them more likely to get killed again in the future, but it makes you choose between letting your old warhorse retire and have to train a replacement, or get him murdered but have use of his expertise and experience.
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Jun 2, 2017 19:44
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Cyrano4747 posted:Overheat is one of the few areas pgi got it right. Well at least post fixing insta overhear headshots. The heat will gently caress YOU UP and you don't want to do it too much, but it's situationally really useful to take the hit and dish out some more damage. I think it's a bigger deal once you're damaged, so it's more of a tradeoff. If you're at standoff range LRMing, then no it's not a huge deterrent.
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Jun 2, 2017 20:04
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Psion posted:With the caveat that I'm only "pretty sure" how this works ... no. If I'm right, sensor lock is best on lights because of the initiative system. Sensor lock lasts for the entire round and if you put it on your Atlas, which goes last, you get no benefit from the sensor lock because it expires immediately. And double no, because then the Atlas can't shoot that turn, which is a huge loss compared to a Commando or Locust or similar holding fire. Basically all of this. JacksLibido, you seem dead set that you should be able to bull-rush lights in and have them not give a gently caress. For all the buffs lights have gotten, they should not be able to run into a lance of heavier mechs and laugh in their face. Scouting with lights works fine, but they need to stick out on the edges of the fight, where they still provide plenty of info, get their move mods and cover, and can use sensor lock normally to help the rest of the team. Yes, if you want to run your mechs directly into brawling range and fight man mode, you don't want to bring lights. Because they are not and never have been built for that.
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Jun 2, 2017 23:55
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evilmiera posted:Nooo, don't ruin light tacklemasters, I miss them so from Mechwarrior Online That should be a pilot ability, where if you move X amount of hexes you can tackle. I'd be fine with that. The light is probably going to still get shot to hell, but hey, TACKLE!
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Jun 2, 2017 23:57
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Cyrano4747 posted:You get one for pre ordering. You get a paintjob and loadout, I don't recall seeing naywhere that they just gift you a free Atlas in the campaign, that would be retarded. Also, the Atlas' job is to be the armored brick and king of the battlefield.
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Jun 3, 2017 01:06
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JacksLibido posted:Not even a little bit? I want to be able to run my commando up 500m or so and just designate targets for my missile boats. Right now if I did that my commando would get spotted and insta hosed by the AI since he's the closest target. The only way I can make a light work is if I keep them BEHIND my lines and spot with them, which doesn't make sense. I'm not trying to get them into brawling range, I'm trying to keep them FROM fighting. In my experience, this has not been true at all. Don't know what to tell you.
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Jun 3, 2017 03:37
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Kraven Moorhed posted:Sooooo I did a thing: Purple Atlas Stalker! Is that color some kind of error, or intentionally that you could select the color?
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Jun 3, 2017 04:04
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Myrmidongs posted:One of my problems with the indicator is that I can't actually figure out how to "target lock" something and move. I want to see what my percentages are as I hover across different movement dots to see where I have my best shot. I know this is a thing, but I have no goddamn clue how to do it. It seems overly difficult to activate. If I recall correctly: Click the movement dot you want to move to, but rather than selecting a facing, hover the target. If you want to back out, just don't select a facing, and you haven't committed to the move. If I'm remembeing it wrong, then its hover the dot and then hover the target, but that doesn't sound right in my head.
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Jun 3, 2017 05:13
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Chronojam posted:By the way is there a way to reserve if you don't immediately click it?
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Jun 3, 2017 06:15
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Personally I feel somewhat vindicated with all the hate Evasive gets, after how hard I got poo poo on for suggesting giving all lights a base 50% dodge for free would be kind of unfun bullshit. Regardless of how good Evasive is right now (spoiler: extremely good), I'm definitely in the same boat with the people who think that Evasive on your target is terribly communicated to you during the shooting phase. Even if it doesn't show up in the shot percentages, it should at least show up in a mouseover somewhere or something. Like if I mouse over the shot now, modifiers show up, but Evasive doesn't even show up in that list, which it probably should even if it doesn't factor in to the raw % for some reason. I can visually see cover (and it gets added on that mouseover list), heat causing us to miss, recoil penalties on ACs, etc. So it makes it an extra bad surprise when you fire 30 LRMs and some ACs at a target and half of them just get juked by an Urbie breakdancing in some trees.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:32
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Psion posted:when did this happen because what Earlier in the thread, someone suggested that an additional way to buff Lights would be that they get Evasion at all times as a standard thing, so they could survive the fury of those dastardly Assaults better. I replied that I hope that if they do that, they add an option to turn it off or the first mod someone makes is a mod to remove it, because that would be horrible bullshit. Then like 8 people jumped down my throat because I hadn't played the game yet so I couldn't possibly criticize the idea of a 50% base evasion being balanced, it might be totally fair YOU DON'T KNOW.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:41
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It should still be indicated somewhere near your shot panel when you're targeting them. It doesn't have to show up in the percentage window, but you could easily put the little Evasive icon above the weapons HUD or something as a reminder. When all the other modifiers are handily given to you there, you don't always remember which targets sprinted and which didn't. or to go look at the mech itself when your eyes are directed to the lower right for other important information regarding the shot.
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Jun 3, 2017 18:44
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DatonKallandor posted:Remind me again, does a CT kill mean the mech is unsalvagable? If it does I would be broke as hell. It would in tabletop, but I don't think we know the salvage rules for the campaign. It probably won't be the same in this game, considering mechs are still walking around if they lose one leg so legging isn't quite as viable for trying to cherry tap for salvage.
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Jun 3, 2017 19:35
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PoptartsNinja posted:Some of the problems with missile knockdowns could be fixed if entrenched was easier to get. A 'brace and shoot 1 weapon' option might be good, it'd make the mediocre precise shot pilot ability a little better; or even if you got entrenched automatically if you chose not to move. A `Mech that's standing still should be harder to knock on its rear end. Likewise, giving evasive a downside by doubling the stability damage an evasive `Mech takes could be a good counter. You can dodge but if you do take damage while you're darting and weaving it's more likely to trip you up. Shouldn't evasive slightly-more-than-double stab damage in that scenario? Since Evasive itself is reducing your hits by half, doubling stab damage just gets you back to normal stability damage. So maybe slightly more than 200%, but not a ton, maybe 210 or 220? That's just spitballing off the top of my head, though.
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Jun 3, 2017 20:18
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Re: Stability damage from LRMs: We were discussing this on discord, and I think I've got a recommendation: Rather than just nerfing stability damage from LRMs, make it so they have diminishing returns in a given volley. Get hit with 5 LRMs out of a volley? They do normal stability damage they do now. Get hit by 10? They do like 75%. As the successful hits in a single attack from LRMs increase, the amount of stab damage added decreases. Fluff wise, this is the enemy pilot having long enough (due to the length of the volley) to start adjusting to the force of the hits. Game wise, this makes LRMs en masse less knockdown prone, without nerfing the mechs that have a couple of LRM5s for long range support.
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Jun 3, 2017 22:34
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Feindfeuer posted:Sounds like a solid idea, but I can't resist saying: Ghost Stability. No, no! This is entirely different! You can't... I was just trying to... 
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Jun 4, 2017 02:20
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JacksLibido posted:
No, see, it's not by launcher size, but volley size. 5 LRM5s is still 25 missiles. if 15 of those hit, you're still getting reduced stab. Also, boating LRM5s is fine since there's limited hardpoints, if you want to dedicate all your missile slots to babby launchers, that's up to you.
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Jun 4, 2017 09:39
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Chronojam posted:Do CapCon get a warcrimes bonus to using these? Only the Inferno Babby Launchers. We discussed them in depth in PTN's thread, in fact!
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Jun 4, 2017 09:56
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PoptartsNinja posted:
The icons over the weapon HUD part is a perfect mock up of what I had in mind. And about a billion times less poo poo then if I had made a mock-up myself. 
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Jun 4, 2017 18:03
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JacksLibido posted:Then reducing stability damage from missiles across the board would accomplish the same thing and be much easier to implement. Except it wouldn't? If 5 missiles from an LRM 20 get through to an evasive target or something, and you universally drop stab damage across the board, they get reduced stab damage. If you have DR, those 5 hit for full stab damage, but an LRM 20 with all of them hitting would have scaling on it.
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Jun 4, 2017 21:21
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JacksLibido posted:That's just retarded though. At that point why don't you just make everybody walk around with stability damage if 1-2 missiles will do 80% of the stability damage 20 will? That's just flat dumb. I tried to think of what you could mean that wasn't stupid, but if it really is that then dude, no. You've posted nothing but irrational poo poo-talk about basically everything so far, I'm not particularly inclined to argue it out with you. Think what you like, it was merely a recommendation for a way they could address people's concerns about overall stability damage from missiles.
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Jun 4, 2017 23:33
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I would say that your expected losses should be somewhat in line with the difficulty of mission you take (and hopefully payout you receive, unless you took a sucker's mission). If you're out taking cakewalk missions and running garrison duty, maybe there's not much risk. If you're on one side or the other of a planetary assault, maybe losing 2 mechs is considered breaking even. A lot of this changes when put in to context of a persistent world, which is what makes it so interesting to me. 
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Jun 5, 2017 16:29
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Psion posted:Yeah, exactly. How much is a lead on a Star League cache of tech worth to you over sacrificing your previously pristine Orion? That kinda thing makes 'ideal' a lot more interesting of a question. And some of it may not even be monetary value vs current value. How much are your friends worth? Are you going to face down that assault lance to buy time for the guys who employed you for the last 4 missions to escape, or are you going to leave them to die, or even switch sides because it's an easy pay day? Of course then your rep will be poo poo because you bailed, but hey, you're not dead.
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Jun 5, 2017 16:34
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I honestly can't tell if the "Battletech is just XCOM2 with mechs" post is tongue in cheek or not. I really hope it is. Or it's a quote from the official forums.
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Jun 5, 2017 17:17
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We're fine with you not liking the design they went with. We're not fine with you making blatantly false statements and declaring them fact. Now if you'll
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Jun 5, 2017 17:28
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Well as an additional point, let me list all the ways I feel Battletech - the video game imitates Xcom - the game. 
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Jun 5, 2017 17:43
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:It wasnt a year ago and the problem everyone has with your posts is that you are full of poo poo and are going "THIS GAME IS XCOM 2 WITH MECHS!!!!1" and will not have any part in a discussion about it - you are not willing to justify your opinions beyond "Xcom did it that way so obviously Harebrained did it EXACTLY THE SAME!". More directly, we accept that you have Bad, Wrong Opinions. But you need to accept that your Bad, Wrong Opinions are not the same as factual information.
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Jun 5, 2017 17:56
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I'd like to point out that Psion just said that I was outright lying for my comment that this: You wouldn't logically have that perfect, real-time information in combat anyway to let you know if your weapons will definitely penetrate or not. But you know what game gives you real-time up to date information about the health and armor of enemy targets? XCOM2.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:01
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Er he said my claim was an outright lie? I was describing the way it works in the game. You can disagree with what I posted, but my observation was absolutely true, and you guys called me a liar for making a true observation. We call you a liar for claiming that mechanics are wholesale lifted from XCOM2, down to aiming being the same when it's not aside from you clicking a target with your mouse. Also, isn't the burden of proof on you? You're the one spewing bullshit at us. Alternatively, go play a game you like, or if you actually want to change things you perceive as being wrong, submit those surveys that come up after EVERY GAME of the beta, allowing you to send your feedback directly to the devs. There are many more productive options if you genuinely aren't a troll and are just somehow that misguided.
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Jun 5, 2017 18:06
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Or maybe once a year I can fire off 3-4 posts on the SA forums that capture my opinions and then go back to posting about other stuff until the next major thing. Your talents are wasted here, GO, AND HELP THE CITY!
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Jun 5, 2017 18:15
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And maybe you put your more expendable guys in the roles more likely to die. If you don't want to have to replace your god tier pilot, put him in the assault, not the metal babby. You can always hose out the cockpit and hire a new pilot from out in front of Space Home Depot if you need to.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:37
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Cowcaster posted:the nintendo 64 was the first home console to have 4 controller ports, because of xcom Conflict itself did not exist until the earliest life on Earth saw combat in XCOM.
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Jun 5, 2017 19:46
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Internet Explorer posted:It just seems to happen a lot. Like A LOT a lot. I do it to the AI constantly and if the AI has a few mechs with jump jets every turn is someone jump jetting behind someone to core them. It looks funny and is something you never see in the MechWarrior games. I've never played TT, so if you're saying it happens a lot there, then I guess that's another viewpoint, but to me it looks and feels very silly. It used to happen all the time in MW3 and 4. It also comes out that if you're jumping behind someone to backshoot them, your back is now probably to their friends.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:10
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Internet Explorer posted:Odd, I didn't even think that was possible to pull of in MW 3 or 4. I certainly couldn't jump over someone and rotate 180 degrees. Never really saw it in MWO either, although there you just usually used jump jets to skate around as a light and help you turn quicker. In 4 you used a lot of your torso twist for it, or taking off from an angle and pulsing your jets. You couldn't really spin like a top or anything, but it was pretty easy to get behind people with JJs. The bigger reason you never really saw it was that pop-tarting was a far better use for JJs if you were tryharding.
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Jun 5, 2017 20:32
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Also, it's not even 40k, you heretic. 
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Jun 5, 2017 21:20
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Tactical positioning and having your units support each other: Exclusive to XCOM, do not steal.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:38
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Ham Sandwiches posted:They did not manage to rip it off successfully for Shadowrun and the combat is a very weak part of that game, which is why it seemed like a risk for Battletech as well. Except the combat in Battletech is not like Shadowrun or XCOM aside from being turn based, which is the core point. Try playing the Beta itself.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:45
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Those forms of cover were represented by colored dots, which were stolen from XCOM when XCOM invented pixels. Internet Explorer posted:Holy poo poo, you can do this in ShadowRun? I really need to get off my rear end and play thoughts. I know the first didn't get the best reviews. Which one should I start with? Probably Dragonfall Directors Cut.
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Jun 5, 2017 21:50
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| # ¿ May 14, 2024 14:37 |
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Personally, I wouldn't expect you people here at Something Awful Dot Com to admit HBS is stealing wholesale from XCOM, considering that you're using English text. You know what else used English text? XCOM. Check and mate, shitters.
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Jun 5, 2017 22:08
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