Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




These early games generally weren't playtested except by the dev team (Sierra was a bit progressive in that from the very beginning the game's designer wasn't also the programmer, writer, artist, etc - even Mystery House had the development divided between Ken and Roberta Williams) that built them. This created an echo chamber effect where tasks that seemed perfectly fine in-house (because the person that created a maze or puzzle usually finds it far easier than it actually is) were extremely difficult to the consumer.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme





He has some decent points, but the main gist of the article is "I didn't read the manual, didn't pay attention to anything in the game, and don't get what's going on. This game sucks!"

The Adventure Gamer's overview (begins [url=https://advgamer.blogspot.com/2012/03/game-13-police-quest-i-introduction.html]here[/i]) is a lot more fair.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Even the earliest SCUMM games had nothing close to Sierra's bullshit. There are very few ways to die in Maniac Mansion, they all take place instantly, and always require you to do something fairly stupid. There are a few ways (besides getting one or two of the kids killed) to put you in a walking dead state, but those were mostly accident that Lucasarts made an extreme effort to stamp out in later titles.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




I might be willing to give an LP a try, although I was always better at text-based adventure games than graphical ones.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




The sound isn't too bad in Tandy mode, if whatever setup you're using supports that. Standard PC speaker is pretty bad.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




mauman posted:

This is indeed true. My (or me and my brother's) copies came exactly like this.

And we played them on a Tandy :corsair:

That was standard for quite some time. Including two sets of disks in each package was cheaper than having to deal with the headache of maintaining two separate product versions, and the hassle of customers buying the wrong one. Pretty much all the legit games from my grandmother's Tandy (my family had a C64 until 1993 or so) were like that.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




5.25" Single Density diskettes held ~320 kilobytes of storage. Even when they were common, this was not very much.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Find some way to share that shield through the whole kingdom, and then you'd have a point. As it is, however, even if he has a reliable way to kill the dragon it would still do immense harm to anybody not bearing the shield.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




The very earliest version of the SCI engine only supported EGA, and KQ3 was the first SCI game. KQ5 was the first VGA King's Quest game.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Infocom's Plundered Hearts (1987) featured a female protagonist. Critical reviews were good, but it sold poorly because the romance genre didn't really appeal to Infocom's largely male fanbase.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Glazius posted:

What's the ogre even want golden eggs for?
They're shiny.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Those ARE the three Fates from Hercules. Or, more accurately, the Graeae of Greek Mythology that inspired the characters in Hercules (the Disney film combined the Graeae and the Moirai). In the myth, Perseus stole their eye to force them to help him learn how to kill Medusa.

The three witches from Macbeth did not share an eye.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Roberta Williams didn't play video games, so she didn't always have the easiest time seeing things from the players point of view. This was the age before playtesting for non-technical issues was common, so nobody was in a position to take her to task for it.


This is also where a lot of the more ridiculous puzzles came from - they made perfect sense to Williams, and nobody else had much of a look at it.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Fat Samurai posted:

Wait, so the three witches have one eye each AND they need the glass eye to see? That's not how the myth works and it's also dumb.

I know it's a small thing to be petty about in the BULLSHIT DARK RANDOM DEATH MAZE update, but I like my mythology proper. :colbert:

That is exactly how the Greaea of Greek mythology worked - three old hags that shared one eye and one tooth. Rosella stealing the eye is taken directly from the myth of Perseus.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




The thing I remember most about 3.5" floppies (since I went straight from using a C64 and a Tandy 1000 (both of which systems used only 5.25" disks in the configuration available) to a 486 with a hard drive and CD-rom) is how absolutely garbage they became in the last couple years they were made. Taking a brand-new disk out of the package at school, saving on it, and having the file be corrupt when I got home was common enough that I usually used four disks to make sure I got one good copy of the file.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




klafbang posted:

Wolfenstein and Doom also had lives, because nobody had realized yet that wasn't really necessary when you weren't paying for gameplay in bundles of 3 lives.

Just Wolfenstein. DooM did not have lives.




Part of the reason the KQ games get so much flack is that even Sierra itself was otherwise on the way to a better game design path with other titles. But King's Quest was Roberta's baby, and she's the perfect example of why someone who doesn't play games has handicaps in designing them.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




If you know what you're doing, most Sierra adventure games can be breezed through in a few hours or less.

If, however, you're playing "legitimately", you could easy spend days or weeks figuring things out.


The games did get longer as the series wore on - by the SCI era customers had a lot more options for their adventuring dollars, and they needed to get their $60 worth out of a game if they were going to buy the next one.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Nidoking posted:

To be slightly fairer about the "pixel hunt" nature of the silver coin, it does glint fairly frequently to draw your attention, so it's not as difficult to spot as the still frame makes it seem to be.

Am I the only one who thought that it stood out like a sore thumb? The barrel, not so much, but the coin might as well have had an arrow pointing to it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Not in the slightest. Dead Man Walking scenarious are extremely easy to create by accident.

There are two basic approaches to designing a game. The first is designing each puzzle in isolation, and then try working them into a cohesive whole. The other is to mimic the player's path, and design outward.

In the first method, all it takes to create a dead man walking scenario is to add extra logic to one puzzle without thinking. If you're going back and revising puzzles, it can make perfect sense to think that item B is just as logical as item A to solve Puzzle A, but not remember to update Puzzle B with an alternative solution.

In the second method, you can easily forget that Puzzle A could use Item A or Item B, and make a Puzzle H that requires Item B.

  • Locked thread