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Glad to see that everyone seems to be considering guard top-tier now. I agree the amount of manpower you can get into a list is insane. I don't think 3 brigades is worth the paring down of weapons just for the command points. My fully equipped infantry list can fill a brigade in 1k, so 2 brigades at 2k seems like plenty. Just as with conscripts (people on dakkadakka wiggling out over that poo poo) there's a hard practical limit on what you can play with. I mean, taking nothing but unarmed infantry, or scrub weapons with infinite re rolls, or 600 conscripts might be able to win by bogging down your opponent. But are you really going to turn up, fill your deployment zone end-to-end with models and spend 4 hrs shuffling them forward and rolling thousands of dice for dozens of enemy casualties? The opposite of fun imo. Kingfish: good balanced list. I think you may be a bit disappointed in the output of leman russ tanks, but it's worth a go. If your opponent is inclined to pour fire into them rather than removing vulnerable hwts etc, it's a good deal. I would take chimeras with at least one heavy flamer in this edition. They will always be moving, so the mid strength 3 shot weapons on 5+ to hit won't have any decisive effects. Hb/hf or dual hf imo. The -1 ap for the hb seems more valuable than the s6 multilaser to me. I also think grenade launchers are still outclassed by plasma pretty hard in his edition, and that heavy weapons won't be worth it for mobile squads. Certainly not missile launchers, where I think for 20 points you won't get much out of it in that role - a heavy flamer would be a better upgrade for a mech vet squad!
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Jun 17, 2017 13:28
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Are they only five points now? I haven't been keeping up with the changes and obviously at the 15 points they used to be they were effectively hot garbage 5pts, +1 LD for nearby units. Comd squads can take them, scion comd squads can take ones which only affect 'militarum tempestus' units. Not breaking the bank obviously, but you don't need to take a comd squad for your officers now. This makes them a bit pointless. Why pay 30pts for models +10 for a vox and a standard, when you could just get another company commander? I agree they're cool and I painted one for my regiment as I'm sure many other players have. But the unit is a small unnecessary tax, I wouldn't expect to see many people taking them.
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Jun 22, 2017 00:37
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chutche2 posted:Good news, the web army list builder now has imperial guard. Do you have a link to this please? I like your idea of the Pl Comd close combat team, and in fact the rules generally make it easier for IG to do a bit of close combat with upgraded Sgts and officers. Really considering doing some of the rough-riders-on-fantasy dark elf-cold-ones that other people have done before.
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Jun 22, 2017 21:10
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This thing is well fun. I have been thinking a bit about the minimum detachment requirements for a 'Brigade'. It may be foolish to chase command point bonuses as I don't think they will really make up for sub par units or pointless choices. But it is an idea that seems to have occurred to a lot of imperial guard players. I can make a brigade for 859 points, using functional units which I'd take anyway. Edit: I'm having a much harder time building any list I like for my elder, who are sort of corsair themed and are exclusively fast type units. Does anyone care to comment on this list? My main concern is it's completely tiny model count. Outrider Detachment Autarch Skyrunner (1) - 130pts 1 Autarch Skyrunner: Laser lance,Fusion gun,Shuriken pistol,Mandiblasters,Twin shuriken catapult Shining Spears (9) - 387pts 1 Shining Spear Exarch: Laser lance,Twin shuriken catapult 8 Shining Spear: Laser lance,Twin shuriken catapult Vyper Squadron (2) - 176pts 2 Vyper: 2 Shuriken cannons Windriders (5) - 160pts 5 Windrider: Shuriken cannon Outrider Detachment Farseer Skyrunner (1) - 171pts 1 Farseer Skyrunner: Witchblade,Shuriken pistol,Twin shuriken catapult Windriders (5) - 150pts 5 Windrider: Twin shuriken catapult Windriders (5) - 150pts 5 Windrider: Twin shuriken catapult Vyper Squadron (2) - 176pts 2 Vyper: 2 Shuriken cannons Genghis Cohen fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jun 22, 2017 |
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Jun 22, 2017 22:35
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chutche2 posted:You can shave points off by using heavy bolter tarantulas btw. They come in at 27 points per FA slot. That is a good idea, but I would have to convert some models, i have the sentinels already, I like them as an idea, and the scout move can essentially project a screen to prevent any deep strike moves in front of my army on turn 1. I have 3 conversions I made from sydonian dragoons as well. Sort of scout machines. They're slightly more expensive than sentinels and I'm not sure they're tactically sound (I built 2 as snipers and 1 with a lance) but they'd enable me to field 2 brigades in 2000 pts.
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Jun 22, 2017 22:59
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TKIY posted:I have the FW Xenos book. Just unlocked. Could I please ask the rules for corsairs (infantry and bikes), nightwing interceptors, and whether there are any rules for eldar corsair army lists? Thanks very much.
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Jun 23, 2017 00:16
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TKIY posted:The rules for corsairs are a full page each, tons of weapon options... Hold up. Much appreciated. Laboriously assembled 20 jet pack infantry just last month.
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Jun 23, 2017 01:03
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TKIY posted:Reavers are 8", 3+, 3+, 3, 3, 1W, 1A, LD 6, 5+ Cheers mate. Pretty grim unfortunately, like a lot of eldar utility infantry. If could do the rules for their jetbikes (formerly cloud dancers) and the nightwing flyer, that would be great.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:08
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TKIY posted:Cloud Dancers: Thank you again. Nightwing seems usable, unfortunately the bike and infantry units, in classic forgewordl fashion, seem like their codex equivalents with a substantial points hike in exchange for situational, marginal special rules. The nearest eldar equivalents (swooping hawks and windriders are pretty drat pricy already, so that's a deal breaker.
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Jun 23, 2017 02:50
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jadebullet posted:Okay, this stupid Forgeworld index is dangerous. I just found out that a Vindicator Laser Destroyer exists, looked at the stats, then purchased one on a whim. I also believe the Forgeworld Index is stupid and dangerous, but for the opposite reason. Obviously it's not cool or sensible to get irritated about imaginary space man rules, but here goes: The rules for Eldar units, specifically the corsair units I have spent a lot of time and effort converting, are completely poo poo. Like a full on, traditional GW-style slap in the face of basic common sense, rules knowledge or attention to detail. The sort of things which make you think "do you even play this game?" "have you even once proofread these rules?" "are you aware of the parallel rules in the GW indices?" and of course "can you even do basic arithmetic, you belter?". Basically the units are vastly overcosted, had the bulk of their special or good things taken from them, and in some cases have rules which make no sense. The Corsair units have a morale rule: they may choose to roll 2 dice for morale checks and pick the highest; if they fail by any amount, they lose one additional model. It's phrased as a risk/reward thing but someone's obviously forgotten or got mixed up the fact that you want to pick the lower dice in morale checks: the rule as written says that you may choose to take morale checks with a higher chance of failure and slightly more losses should you fail. Thanks, I'm ok! So a corsair is essentially a guardian with special pistol shots, trading Battle Focus for this bizarre morale rule and a potentially-nifty ability to shift 3" between causing a casualty on overwatch and actually being charged. Costs 11pts (14pts for the jetpack version, which are actually the models FW sells) with a shuriken catapult or a shardcarbine, which I'm actually fine with. To give the fuckers lasblasters, the weapon which comes in the model kit, and which I assembled them with, costs 7 ppm! This is the same as the Eldar index, so I assume it's some sort of consistency thing, although the actual profile of the Lasblaster is different between the 2 books! I do not feel 7pts is a good price for this weapon - a shardcarbine is probably just as good if not better. Now I can go on using my models and just say they've got shardcarbines. But I don't think it's a huge ask for them to glance over these little things. This unit used to have a 4+ save, now it's down to 5+. Used to have 2 weapon upgrades per 5 models; now it's 1 per 5. They were not a powerful unit before. The Corsair jetbike ('Cloud Dancers') are even worse. 37ppm! 7 more than a normal eldar Windrider jetbike. For special pistols. loving Shining Spears cost 43! Adding insult to injury, Windriders really benefit from Battle Focus and their extended Advance move. Corsairs give up both of those for the aforementioned broken morale and marginal overwatch rules. For all of the above mentioned, you need to pay 5pts for the squad leader (unlike, seemingly, every other unit in the entire game). This 'Felarch' has only one close combat upgrade option: he can take a Void Sabre, which is exactly the same as a normal power sword (4pts in the Eldar index). It costs 10pts. Basically, FW don't even seem to understand the new points system or have someone to do the most basic proofreading. Sorry to be the stereotypical entitled geek consumer, but it is hard to believe they have the gall to publish things in this condition.
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Jun 24, 2017 22:33
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DJ Dizzy posted:This post has everything I like about 40k. Entitled hams whining that their special snowflake models arent the best anymore, and lovely FW proofreading. I assume this is some sort of internet tongue in cheek thing? I did say that I'm aware it's a firstworld problem to the utmost degree. But it's frustrating because proofreading and balancing to this very basic level (which they're currently failing to do) is so drat easy. Game design and coming up with good core mechanics is difficult. But most of their points cost, editing and errata stuff could have been weeded out by giving a half dozen experienced players the drafts for a day, under a NDA. Not sure what you mean about 7.5, 7th edition had the exact same issues. jadebullet posted:As for the Corsairs, at least you have rules. I started my Wolves with the reassurance by FW that Bran Redmaw would have rules despite not having a model. They never gave him rules so now I have to run him as a lone wolf rather than the much cooler werewolf marine. Yeah, I am a bit salty about it. Yeah. FW's original Imperial Armour concept always produced cool looking campaign books, which were very much for 40k players with historical grognard tendencies. But their efforts to introduce and maintain support for sub-factions like the Elysians, Death Korps, special Marine Chapters, Corsairs et al have always been woeful. Typically something is released with some cool ideas and many glaring balance issues; 1-2 units are nearly game-breaking while the others are handicap trash. Then the army is left to slowly drift out of sync with the game's core rules, lacking even the most superficial updates. Basically it's incredibly stupid of us to chase FW-published rules as usable game supplements, but we always do it anyway!
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Jun 24, 2017 23:32
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Arven posted:Finally finished the Mordian Rough riders I've been working on for like two years now. 8th is really inspiring me to finish a lot of half finished projects. These look terrific! Can I ask you where you got the lances? I am seriously tempted to do some cold one riding feral world type rough riders. I have just finished building a converted Chimera (nearly, I need to fill gaps and drill barrels). Hoping to get 2 more. The idea was to make something shaped a bit more like a modern IFV:  I have magnetised the pintle mounted storm bolter and both weapon mounts. The gun there is a heavy stubber barrel glued to the end of the heavy bolter turret weapon - figure it looks alright. I'll play it as a heavy bolter. I think the best tactical way to play these is now with 2 heavy flamers, but I don't really like the look of the old school style ones which are still produced for IG vehicles. Does anyone know a good source for the newer style heavy flamer muzzles? You get them in IG command squads and sentinels, but I only ever bought a few of those and have already used the bits up.
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Jun 25, 2017 16:15
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Arven posted:Thanks! The riders and their equipment are entirely from Victoria Lamb. Cheers, I will look into the cost for lances + legs. I agree the FW death riders, while nice, are loving insane. But then again almost all FW stuff is insanely expensive. I mean, I can almost see why they can charge that much for Titans. It's beyond stupid, but if your disposable income includes the price of a used car, then I suppose you can't buy a 2' tall resin model with that much detail anywhere else. But you look at a little tank I can hold in the palm of my hand, and it's £90 . . . sure, the same size thing from GW is £40 and the FW one looks nicer, but god drat. I just can't bring myself to do it. Proletariat Beowulf posted:Are you so mad you'll make a fandex about it? Well let's not do anything crazy!
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Jun 25, 2017 17:24
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Safety Factor posted:You have to add the points of their weapons too. I think hell blasters wind up at 38 each or something. We played my Imperial Guard against my mate's Tyranids again last night. Halfway through the game, he remarked how great Trygons were for barely 100 pts. This then led to the revelation that he's not been paying any points costs for wargear that's a model's base loadout (ie not swapped in for something else). His Trygons, for example, were each 74 pts undercosted. We were both somewhat taken aback. We called the game on turn 4, but I'm fairly sure I would have won handily in any case. Imperial Guard are absolutely loving sick now. 
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Jun 26, 2017 13:14
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OhDearGodNo posted:So are we still sticking flamers on every guardsman (or equivalent) special weapon slot? I think flamers and plasma are the really common choices (i.e. You take the most across the whole army). Both have their advantages, in some ways I tend to favouring plasma for infantry squads (it can chip away at bigger or harder units using split fire) and hold the flamers in special weapon or command squads where they are concentrated. That way you put the effort into manoeuvring toward the enemy to deliver the big punch of 3d6 or 4d6 hits wi the same again to deter assault. I need to get some games against other snooty armies though. Meltas seem like more of a niche against big monsters or vehicles due to the damage stat. Due to higher cost I wouldn't put them in infantry squads, but they're not a bad choice if you're likely to face big stuff - definitely worth having on some of your vets or scions imo. panascope posted:If battle cannons had the basilisk ability where you roll two dice and take the highest I think it'd at least feel a lot better using them. I agree this would be a lot better as a minimum standard for previous editions' large blast weapons. They're not priced appropriately for things which sometimes only have 1-2 shots, and who are often surprisingly ineffective after hit and wound rolls. I don't think auto-hits are the answer unless the overmatch effect was somehow mitigated. There doesn't seem to be much consistency in 'blast' weapons' pricing or number of shots.
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Jun 27, 2017 13:19
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moths posted:
Jesus, these are amazing.
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Jun 27, 2017 21:35
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JackMack posted:Crossposting from the oath thread. THis guy is a xenos bounty hunter, tagging along with my militia army for the chance to kill Space Marines. There are certain places where who are paying double for a primaris. He is going to be the leader of a bunch of counts-as Ogryns. This guy is loving rad! Really old-school sci-fi vibe to him. 40k as drawn by Phillip drouett. Is it a conversion? The Sex Cannon posted:Crotch post: I think demolisher are the best of a bad lot, and battle cannons aren't the worst one, but leman russes in general really leave me unimpressed at the moment. So many points for such mediocre firepower. Although they can no longer be taken out by assault or a single meltagun as easily (and denying deep strike got a lot easier), their resilience against ranged shooting is comparatively worse than the previous edition. 3 lascannon wounds can take them out, for example, which isn't that unreasonable for a single kitted devastation squad or predator annihilator. Edit: not that yours don't look good though! And I'm sure demo + heavy flamers is a relatively good choice.
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Jun 30, 2017 21:30
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See, I wouldn't really mind the overheat rule if the executioner was ok without supercharging (plasma guns definitely are for their price). But it sucks. Clearly worse than a demolisher.thesurlyspringKAA posted:Also, I saw scout sentinels used to great effect in a batrep recently. The player had them up front, then scout-moved them towards the nasty CC tarpit units in order to keep them tied up for a long time. Seems more useful there than to hope they get one or two shots off with their guns. I've used mine similarly to push back the available deepstriking space (my tyranid opponent had lictors and trygons waiting) and it works well. Only caveats are that it's basically resigning the First Blood objective, and I want to get out of the mindset of always starting my IG list by building a brigade. Comd points over a certain point can't be worth more than taking effective units to fulfill a given plan.
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Jul 1, 2017 10:27
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Cool new marines! Battle report: played my 4th game of the new edition. For the first time it was NOT against Tyranids. Shocking. Back down to 1000 pts, I fielded the same usual sort of Imperial Guard Brigade as I have previously. Opponent was Adeptus Mechanicus. First time I've ever played against that army, and they were terrifying. Things were shooting, they got army-wide bonuses, it was really unnerving. My sheer numbers let me hold up better than some armies might have, but I was nearly wiped out by end of turn 5 (I went second, as IG will tend to do in this edition) I still won 11-4 on objectives. It was loving close though, another turn might have finished me. Most impressed by his Kastelan robots and the awesome firepower put out by his Destroyer squad, using 5-shot grav cannons. I only realise now, though, he overplayed his Kastelans a bit. I was appalled when they moved forward turn 1 and shot twice in the shooting phase, basically killing about 18 conscripts with 4D6 flamer shots. This isn't allowed; that ability prohibits moving from the start of the turn, and I don't think you can even activate it until the second round. Even so, I took away a healthy respect for that army.
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Jul 1, 2017 19:21
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Only change of real note for Imperial Guard was that the 'take shitloads of command squads' army idea was immediately scotched. I really hope some salty grognard had already bought £500 worth of Scion boxes. Although to be fair, they're still pretty good as ordinary squads + officers and command squads. Also noted you can't make your Officers the 'Militarum Auxilia' Regiment in order to give orders to Ogryns and Ratlings. Can't believe some people would try that after reading in the book that you can't make your officers 'Militarum Tempestus'. Surely the implication was already clear? xtothez posted:Edit: OK this is bullshit. If you take multiple chainswords you get +1 attack for each, but if you take multiple sets of scything talons you only ever get +1 attack total. Saw the Genestealer Cult purestrain change. I would of expected them to be reduced to the same cost as for Tyranids (12 ppm) since the units are AFAIK identical - I wonder they they're even cheaper? Terrifying in either case, Genestealers are loving awesome. Miruvor posted:Page 76 Interestingly, there is no such thing as a 'Sicarian Princeps' - only Infiltrator and Ruststalker Princeps. I guess another FAQ is required (I know it's perfectly clear what they meant, before anyone gets sarcastic). I view this as sweet, sweet justice - played yesterday and watched a squad of 5 infiltrators delete a 10-man IG Infantry squad in a turn of pistol shooting, before running through to murder my warlord and another squad. Artum posted:drat, guess that was weirdly high. The thing is, Inquisitorial Acolytes have got to be close to the worst unit in the game in this case. You're getting Imperial Guardsmen with an inbuilt re-rolling ability, great, but for more than double the cost, with weapons (which they do have great access to) also far more expensive. For a small, tailor-made squad, they sure do have absolutely nothing special about them. You'd think Inquisitors would find the really good imperial henchmen to give them a hand, not the bog-standard rank & file!
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Jul 2, 2017 19:39
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Artum posted:Annoyingly the transport rules are really the biggest bar to stuff like that, I wanted to have a datasmith as part of the crew because its a loving rad model but theres literally no transport I could put one in. Probably just going to counts-as it as an engineseer. It is a lot easier and that's fun, but no change will be painless. Essentially you can mix units together in an army (ie detachment) much more easily; but the old super-customisable units and zany Inquisitor gear seems like a thing of the past. I have an Inquisitorial Land Raider Redeemer and most of my 'Inquisitorial' guys are Crusaders and Death Cult Assassins who are now Ministorum and can't ride around in it. Bit miffed, but change is inevitable. Are you really going to use those custodes weapons on human size models? The shields might nearly work, but the swords are ridiculously outsize even on the massive custodes. I'm sure the blades would be taller and broader than a GW 'human' model.
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Jul 2, 2017 22:14
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adamantium|wang posted:Plus single models are stupidly easy to hide in a corner somewhere they will never see action. They won't be expected to do anything beyond allowing an existing army to get access to more command points. My regular opponent took ten minutes to spend 49 points to change his Battalion to a Brigade and all of those were saved by dropping useless guys in other units. Why would you even agree to play against that army? I know people like to stick to 'it's the rules' for any weird abstractions or slightly off things in the game rules. It ensures consistency. But pre-game, during army selection, it seems like your friend is rolling with a very obtuse interpretation to gain an advantage. The rule is obviously there to accommodate people who just don't have enough models. Not so you can take 1 of your 500 gaunts and claim you're an under strength unit to expand your command point pool. Why not just call him on his bullshit?
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Jul 3, 2017 17:57
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adamantium|wang posted:Because we all play in a competitive tournament environment and after 25 years we are sick and tired of GW games being the only games where having to pick and choose which of the poorly written basic loving game rules we're going to ignore is a touted feature and just play the game as it stands, warts and all. I do see your point and I agree that warts'n'all is the more sensible way to play the game, given the number of weird interactions. But I'm very aware that to the guys who write GW lovely rules, this is only meant to apply when you the player don't physically have any more models to finish off the unit. So that little Timmy can use his 5-man terminator squad even though one of them got lost, crushed or eaten by the dog. Not so competitive players can leverage a separate detachment of 5 models to feed their main force Command Points. That's what I meant by obtuse.
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Jul 3, 2017 20:11
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Cooked Auto posted:I managed to find a copy of the old Daemonhunters codex where the GKs were just special and not super special awesome like they got later. See I take the opposite view. My (rather fuzzy) memory of reading about grey knights when I was a kid, in 2nd ed or maybe the very beginning of 3rd, was you could take 1 squad. Only if you were fighting chaos. I don't remember the stats or if they were that elite by the tabletop rules. But the idea was awesome. These guys were rarer than rocking horse poo poo, but come the hour they would turn up and heroically fight the daemons. I think they had to add all the other poo poo to make them work as a playable army; but I prefer grey knights as a special unit where each one is a hero. To have gradations (3 types of power armour marines, 2 types of terminator, all the specialists etc) removes any mystery about them IMO. How can Grey Knight A be such a mighty champion against old night if he's the one they picked to drive the APC while his squad mates do the close combat? I prefer to imagine all their enabling transport, support, heavy firepower etc being done by top notch humans or machines - the knights themselves are only for taking the fight to the warp with steel and psyker powers. Going on and on about their eliteness and how many million applicants fail to make the grade for each success is pointless - this narrative is directly countered by the way they appear on the tabletop.
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Jul 6, 2017 16:58
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Artum posted:] Wait, what size game were you playing? Thats quite a few lords of war, was that his whole army? Kind of a dick move if so. And if you had primaries marines and he had that, what are those necron vehicles doing?
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Jul 7, 2017 00:03
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Safety Factor posted:*Safety Factor sighs as he unboxes his Night Lords* This is a loving cool army mate. I love to play against people who have a real vision for what their force is.
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Jul 7, 2017 15:46
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goose willis posted:Does anyone in these threads even reply to army list posts JackMack posted:I find it the most dull bit of the thread. I would rather hear s retrospective after you play it. Otherwise it is just a list of models and points values. JackMack is in luck - I played my first game (of 8th) using Eldar today, so here is what happened. Played against Adeptus Mechanicus, which I knew from my last game is an absolutely terrifying shooting army. Even worse, their weapons were somewhat overkill on my imperial guard but would have a far worse effect on the 30+point jetbikes which compose my Eldar force. My army is supposed to be eldar corsair types, and I only really try and take fast units, with no heavy vehicles or slow things. I used an Outrider detachment: Autarch (jetbike) with laser lance, fusion gun. 6 Jetbikes, 5 with shuriken cannons, one just with catapults 3 Vypers (all separate units) with double shuriken cannons 2 Skyweavers with shuriken cannons and zephyrglaives 7 Shining Spears, Exarch had a star lance So everything in the army was mobile as gently caress, moving 16-22" with mostly effective shooting. My issues were that I have no heavy or really long range firepower. The list will struggle to damage any very resilient enemies, who combine high Wounds with good armour. Rends on the shuriken weapons, doing 1 damage each, are no longer a viable way to remove tough stuff. That's only 19 models in the list (at 1000 points). While all have multiple wounds, none of them are especially resilient and it seems loving hard to claim cover with jetbikes. So it's mobile, but can't really take a punch and can't throw one especially far or hard. My opponent fielded the same mix as before - Kataphron Destroyers, 2 Kastelans, an Onager crawler, with one infantry unit and a couple techpriest types. He added a Callidus Assassin to his Sicarian Infiltrators as a more aggressive element. We played 'Tactical Escalation' from the Maelstrom missions. Basically your number of objectives per turn goes up and up as the game progresses. My deployment was just shorter than his so I had the choice. I gave him first turn, but there was method to the madness. We were using my mate's brand new martian=themed mountain board. Big foam-carved rocks all over, looked great. A huge cliff thing dominated the centre ground, completely blocking line of sight but posing little obstacle to my Flying movement. I had deployed back so his first turn shooting would be mostly ineffective, I thought that would give me a bit of an advantage. So I might have misread that situation as his Onager (the only thing which could see) immediately one-shot a Vyper and gained him First Blood. But otherwise my strategy worked well. I avoided quite a lot of fire using LoS blocking terrain, which I think kept me alive - in a straight shooting war I think my army would have been wiped by the end of turn 4. His Infiltrators+Assassin came in and did some damage, but I destroyed them both, together with his infantry squad, quite isolated from the rest of his force. After the initial turns he had taken the lead on objective points, but of course there are more points up for grabs later in the game. The decisive moment was when I charged in with 5 shining spears and an Autarch to his Kastelans. He rolled high on number of shots for overwatch and incredibly well on wounds; I rolled poorly on saves. I lost 3 Shining spears (7 wounds) on the charge. Gutted. Killed one robot but the other escaped unscathed. The battered remnants of our armies clawed at each other. Basically he destroyed my over-extended assault. But his remaining units (Onager, 1 Kastelan, the tech-priests) were still grouped in one corner, about where they started. So at the 4th and fifth turn I was able to jet my units around nabbing objective points while he was drawing cards he couldn't achieve. End of turn 5 I moved to secure 3 separate objectives, get close to his Warlord and gun him down. This broke me into the lead (we had been 12-12) and fortunately the game ended. 16-12 to Eldar. He wouldn't have been able to table me had it gone on, because I would have hid like a screaming pansy behind terrain. But I only had 4 jetbikes and 2 vypers left, one of which was on 1 wound. (Best moment of the game, that Vyper went a into a Fight phase locked into combat against Infiltrators; I had to pass 12 armour saves. I made 11, went fro broke and spent the command point to re-roll the last. Made it, enabling me to fly away. loving epic.) So a lot of my fears about Eldar were justified, they have little staying power (at least the kind of models I like and collect from the faction) and I need to find a source of real firepower like bright lances. But the mobility really paid off, from the mission and even more from the terrain. Still don't think they're all that as an all-comers army. On my opponent's side, holy poo poo those Kastelans are the unit for all seasons. Great overwatch, great resilience/special abilities, great ranged shooting. Their mortal-wound reflecting invulnerable saves are possibly the most irritating thing in the game to play against (in my limited experience of the edition so far). Has anyone else used Eldar? How did it go?
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Jul 8, 2017 18:16
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Agentdark posted:Also, even for a Brigade Detachment, are Setinals even worth taking for the Fast Attack Slot? Or is rough riders the place you want to go? I have been using scout sentinels with autocannon - they're what I had. Not too bad a buy really. Scouting forward to deter the deep striking type units is a godsend. I would say that the heavy flamer would be a superior choice in that role. Taking them for that and the brigade detachment . . . I think they're ok. As weapon platforms I can't say I really rate them. Mobility is quite offset by the hit penalty for moving and while they are more resilient than infantry they can be one-shot by a lot of anti-tank weapons. You can get more than double the number of heavy weapons in infantry teams than you can get on scout sentinels. As I play more I get more sceptical of building armies to maximise command points. I think filling out a brigade (with IG) is a good idea but I wouldn't try to do 2 - I'd jusy add in the units I thought most effective, then tweak them into an additional detachment of whatever type fit, or even cram them into the same brigade if no other option was available. Points efficient units beat bonus command points IMO.
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Jul 9, 2017 00:07
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jng2058 posted:So I played a 1000 point game against my brother's Dark Eldar tonight. We're doing that little sample three battle tree campaign in the back of the book, so we played Patrol at 1000 points. We'll do the next battle at 1500 and the finale at 2000. I like the rising points idea. My group has been doing 1k games both to learn the rules and because we prefer smaller games - less of a giant cluster of overcrowded boards and shoving too many models round for hours. But we are about to embark on a 6-round escalation league where we build from 1000 up to 2000+ as we play each other round robin style. Your experience with Ratlings reinforce my perception that snipers are a great niche and really mess with opponents' heads. But the common or garden-variety sniper rifle just lacks the punch to kill characters, who in most armies have high wounds, saves and often some FNP-type rule. Things like the vindicare assassin or transuranic arquebuses, which terrified me last time I played, are probably the more viable types of sniper. Spare a moment to think of eldar rangers, who have the same offensive output as ratlings and cost 20pts each! Do you really rate the mix of weapons on your stormtroopers? My ideal use of them is to drop down and try to utterly eliminate one target, hopefully in an isolated position so that they don't get wiped out immediately the following turn. For that I'd favour pure plasma guns or meltas depending on whether you wanted to hunt vehicles/monsters or heavy infantry. Flamers can't be used the turn you drop.
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Jul 9, 2017 10:33
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TWSS posted:For eldar, Illic nightspear is more likely to put damage on characters than a unit of 5 rangers and he is 12 points cheaper! Good point. I have him and 10 rangers. I might include one or both in a game sometime. I just can't escape the feeling that Eldar's very high average points cost for infantry give them a huge disadvantage if they do a static shooting war. Like Rangers' penalties to hit (for incoming fire)/bonuses to cover are great, but when you're 20pts each your will feel every failed save, and will run out of models before most opponents!
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Jul 9, 2017 15:34
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jng2058 posted:I only own two Plasma Storm Troopers so that's what I brought. I agree that in general a single weapon load would probably be better. The guys I did bring only got one round of fire so the Flamer was just wasted points since it shoots 8" and I had to Deep Strike 9" away. I'd make the effort to get hold of some plasma gun bits (some other players might be able to help you out, or there's eBay). Plasma pistols, which every marine player has loads of, can also be cut up and glued to the hotshot lasguns. You can sort of see them below, sorry it's not more zoomed in:  Grenade launchers are basically the list building equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot right now. Plasma is 2 drat points more.
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Jul 9, 2017 18:14
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jng2058 posted:That's a pretty sweet conversion, and looks pretty easy to do. Yeah, I'll probably give that a try. Cheers mate. The shape of the plasma pistol and the lasgun both provide natural cutting lines and make it very easy. The scions even have backpack-mounted power sources! Played another game this evening, going back to Imperial Guard again. Faced Necrons for the first time in a couple editions. I used the same list as my previous game (infantry, scions, sentinels and a manticore, all shoved into a brigade detachment) at 1000 points. We played the Maelstrom mission where the 'secure objective X' cards are up for grabs by both sides. So Necrons are super tough (has anyone played against the vehicles with quantum shielding!? jesus christ that's an irritating mechanic to have to pound through) but not that killy or maneuverable. My opponent sort of fell into the classic blunder - he directed all his firepower at the conscripts first, then the infantry squads, because they were softer and easier to kill. And to be fair, that was how he could get objectives on his side of the board. But meanwhile my firepower units took out his annihilation barge and wraiths. He had two big blobs of necron warriors (17 each) which proved very resilient with reanimation protocols. But once my Scions dropped in, bottom of turn 3, killing his Praetorian walker, he couldn't really run around and achieve objectives with just two slow, not-very-long-ranged units, no matter how hard to kill they were. I was pretty much ahead on objectives from turn 2, and when we called it due to time at the end of turn 5, I was up 15-7. I had decent luck on the objective draws, but I still would have won handily due to how much better my army could spread across the board than his. Best moment of the game: Scions dropped in; plasma command squad took out his Stalker in one volley after its quantum shielding almost completely denied the melta squad; plasma command squad was wiped out by return fire. This move left my opponent's warlord the closest model, so I moved the meltas within 6" range. One volley, only one melta hit wounded, he failed his invulnerable save, I rolled a 6 for damage. Boom, immortal alien king melted down in one shot! Tea & medals all around, lads.
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Jul 10, 2017 00:35
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Awesooome! I kick myself every time I read or see a militarum battle report. I shoulda gone with them instead of tau. Man, they are just the best. Their strategy has always been 'march straight towards the enemies guns until they reach their preset kill limit and shut down' but in this edition it actually works because they're cheap enough and they don't overpay for their 4+ to hit weapons and super-fragile support squads. Quantum shielding is super dickish because epithet better and more decisive your blow was going to be, the worse chance of it being nothing at all. You've really got to chip away at their vehicles which is so drat aggravating.
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Jul 10, 2017 13:16
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JoshTheStampede posted:The strategem to let you fight with the chargers doesn't let you fight FIRST - if the Reivers are your only charge that turn or you choose them to fight first, the Orks can't interrupt them. The Bee posted:Oh, poo poo, nevermind then! Thanks for catching that reading. JoshTheStampede is right, the stratagem lets you go right after the first charging unit, not first overall. But I thought the example was going with the interpretation of having 3 separate squads of 3 reavers? Given that's the only way to play them at the moment. It doesn't really matter as of course once the codex drops, they will be taken in normal size units. I would never discount the stratagem use though - as a SM player, you may be launching another vital charge that turn, or several others. Then you'd have to choose which one you know will get spoiled. Generally, I think it's very tempting in this edition to charge enemy units with your hardcore assaulters, even if they are quite dangerous in combat themselves. But you're always gambling on wiping them out/crippling them. I think the old standby rule of 'never assault an assault unit' is normally sound. I would only do so if I had no other damage-dealing options, or needed to forestall a charge at my shooting assets. But in most cases, why give orks another fight phase to chop you up in?
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Jul 10, 2017 21:12
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bonds0097 posted:The example is with a 10-man Reiver unit since GW's points PDF indicated that Reivers are taken in a unit of 5-10 models. The 3-man squad is just an 'easy build' thing. You are right, I misread that after hearing the chat about taking several small units to try and stack the morale debuff (which I doubt will stack; they've been careful to avoid such effects on other units) The Bee posted:I'd charge a charger if I thought my chargers could cut down their charge. There's something to be said for having control over which of your units engages, I think, and the combo of both having a first strike and being able to force your opponent's assault unit into a suboptimal target can be a sound one. This is especially the case if you're very likely to end up with a huge advantage. If you can charge Gaunts and go on a bug hunt, denying them both the 6-inch pile in and their extra +1 to hit for overwhelming numbers? That's a carpet of gaunts that isn't tying up your transports or chewing on your gunline. Yeah, it's a risky strategy which you might have to adopt or which might be the lesser of two evils. Of course the perfect game would be to gun down opposing assault units whilst charging enemy shooting units and leaving some short ranged units isolate do in remote positions until they could be dealt with separately. But who are we kidding, 40k is played on tiny super-congested boards and there's no way any opponent will mess up that badly.
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Jul 10, 2017 22:19
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I do not understand what the Atlas Shrugged bit means. Not in a general philosophical sense, that's obviously rubbish. I mean what is the use of that speech referencing here? What is it meant to convey? Is it a reply to the quoted bit of 40k discussion? Someone please tell me. I think we're at a level of irony and self-reference I really, really don't get.
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Jul 10, 2017 23:46
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[quote="xtothez" post=""474248392"] I've also painted up over two dozen more genestealers in the last week as they've been the star unit in pretty much every game I've played. [/quote] One of my main warhammer buddies plays tyranids and has always favoured the stealers. He's really gone all in on them in this edition, including 2 units of 20 in most of his lists. They loving blend anything they hit, although personally I think he'd be better off with 3-4 units and the same total number. But Sunday he played the marines and found himself staring down the barrels of a land raider redeemer. He had no shooting of note in his entire army. It killed whole units in overwatch!
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Jul 11, 2017 10:13
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xtothez posted:It's so easy to lose a few getting into combat I would never risk taking a starting size of 10 - in fact for my game tonight I'm bringing 3 x 15. I was aware of the rule, but against most of his opponents there is a big level of overkill there. 9 stealers will mince any of my imperial guard units for example. You're probably right that units of 15 is about optimum.
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Jul 11, 2017 12:26
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Zuul the Cat posted:*sigh* I misread that. Every time I learn something new about the changes to AdMech it further increases my desire to never field them. Admech are loving great mate. My friend's grav cannon destroyers, onager dunecrawler and kastelan robots, all supported by tech priests, absolutely terrorised me.,
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Jul 11, 2017 14:16
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Corrode posted:Found a couple of cool dudes while I was reorganising my cases. This is a great model mate. Coteaz is a classic and the dark scheme really suits him. I've got an unpainted resin one lying around, should really get cracking on it.
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Jul 13, 2017 13:08
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