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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Turd Herder posted:

I'm excited for the sale. Whats the 1 game you all seem to be waiting to buy this sale?

Battle Brothers, MidBoss, Hollow Knight, Avadon....

Not one game, but ugh, I want so many games.

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Kragger99 posted:

It's easier said then done, but if you can group your wanted games into one of the following categories, only buy the ones in the first category this sale, and buy the ones in the second during the winter sale:
1. "I'm definitely going to play this within the next 6 months!!!"
2. "I really want to play this, but not sure that I'll get to it in the next 6 months"

Otherwise you'll get a massive backlog (or make your existing one larger), and most likely run out of time to play them all :(

This is really good advice!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Quest For Glory II posted:

Legacy of Kain series

As much as I love the LoK series, I would genuinely recommend that you watch a playthrough of it somewhere instead of playing with it. Some of the games in the series are fun to play, but even when they are, they get bogged down with hideous block sliding puzzles and some frustrating fights. I say this as someone who went through Soul Reaver 1 twice.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Too Shy Guy posted:

Hollow Knight

/mutters to self as Hollow Knight shoves itself onto the top of my wishlist

Man, tomorrow cannot come soon enough!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Goondev games that I know of / are good / and the devs post fairly regularly here:

Dungeonmans by Madjack - he's a regular in his own thread and the roguelikes thread, and has been a good source of interesting roguelike meta as well as patches for his game. The game itself is funny, fun to play, and probably one of the best entry-level roguelikes out there. I wrote a review for it on Steam here, if you want to read it.

Deathstate by... I have forgotten their name, but they hang out in the roguelikes thread too. This is my favorite twin stick shooter, primarily because it's a tense, fun experience that's accessible to me: you don't have to aim your bullets. In fact, you can't. You focus on dodging alone, and the enemies are designed really well so the auto-aim doesn't screw you over. It has lots of difficulty levels, but the basic one is easy enough that I was able to clear it, and have fun doing so! I highly, highly recommend it.

Caves of Qud by Unormal and Hand of Luke! The best open-world mutant game ever, amen. Want to be a time-traveling psychic who shoots laser beams? You got it. Want to be a flying gunslinger? You got it. Want to beat a bear to death and wear its bloodied face? Done. Caves of Qud is huge, difficult, and while it's a roguelike there's an easily accessed way to turn off permadeath so you can treat it like a regular rpg. My review. Also, the devs are actively working on it and bringing to a 1.0 release in the next year or so, which is sweet!

Sproggiwood by Unormal and Hand of Luke - they made a good baby's first roguelike! It's fun, it's brutal, it's great for coffee break playing. Here's my review!

Brigador, the best isometric mech simulator. Also, commit warcrimes! I know it looks like a twin stick shooter, but it's actually a stealth/tactical game - if you rush the enemy, you will die. You have to carefully engage squads of the enemy and mow them down. The writing and music are spectacular, as are the controls - and okay, I love the tank controls, but if you don't, they've added absolute controls and an option to slow down the game for gamepad use. (Also for accessibility use, which was essential, as I had trouble processing the game at full-speed initially.) Review here. Its goondevs are anthony patch and gauss and someone else I'm forgetting, but they're all active in the Brigador thread!

WASTED - okay, Mr. Podunkian kind of vanished, but the game is still good. Roguelike FPS mixed with Fallout vault diving, and if you dig it, it's good. I'm not good at FPSes, but I still had fun fiddling with it, and I feel it's a safe rec. :)

Now - I know. I frequent the roguelikes thread mostly, so I can't tell you about other goonmade games. What am I missing?

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

DACK FAYDEN posted:

Were devs (and Valve) really losing so much money that they had to change their gifting policy altogether? Or does it help cut down on stolen credit card sales in cheap regions or something?

G2A and the russian mafia, basically. Yes, they were losing that much money.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Xander77 posted:

But those sell KEYS, and have asolutely nothing to do with the lovely new gifting restrctions?

They also sell games gifted through the inventory!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Xaris posted:

Honestly Risk of Reign is not a good game. It punishes you heavily for taking your time and chilling out exploring things and makes it so you just have to rush the exits for the most part or else you get swarmed and die. If you like a game where you can take your time, avoid it

Oy oy oy, learn to chill as you play it. As long as you keep moving you'll do just fine. And remember that you are supposed to die a lot of the time, it's part of its charm!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

This is your usual sale reminder to grab Consortium!

Why should I care about Consortium?

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Edmond Dantes posted:

So here's a doozy for y'all.

Hollow Knight or Hyper Light Drifter?

Do you like platformers or top-down more? They're both really good re: exploration and atmosphere.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Junior Jr. posted:

Okay thread, I got a challenge for ya.

I'm looking for some fun or decent action and platformer games, bundles are allowed, and the total cost should be 8 bucks or less.

Hit me with your best shot!

Copy Kitty! It's like Megaman, but more creative!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Justin_Brett posted:

I bought Giga Wrecker since it had fairly positive reviews, and in the first proper dungeon after the tutorials I came to a puzzle where you need to knock down debris to make your way up to a platform with a mandatory terminal. But no matter where I whack it at, or how I approach it, it doesn't come close. If that's what it has at the beginning I don't think I want to bother seeing what's at the end.

Oof, thanks for the heads up. Just zapped that off the wishlist.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Junior Jr. posted:

Okay, I made up my mind and these are definitely the last games I buy this summer sale.

- Giga Wrecker
- Stories: The Path of Destinies
- Distance
- LucasArts Adventure Pack

I really want to add a couple of good shmups to my list, even if they are a bunch of japanese indie ones, anyone know some good ones?

You uh, have interesting taste in games, but I can help with the SHMUP thing!

Crimzon Clover is the best SHMUP on Steam.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Ghost 1.0 has humor so stupid and corny it wraps back around into being charming :allears:

This game is servicable, and a nice contrast to Hollow Knight? Similar gameplay, but different enough that it's a fine break from that other game. Much goofier, so I'm less gloomy too!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Junior Jr. posted:

Yes but I want to know if it's a good game or not.

From what I watched of videos of it, it controls extremely clunkily and the camera is too besotted with her butt to be helpful. Don't play it unless you desperately need a butt in your life.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Vasler posted:

Gotta say, I didn't like the controls of Ghost at all. Especially after playing Hollow Knight, which was the metroidvania I've been waiting for since Symphony of the Night. I loved Hollow Knight. Phenomenal game.

I remap almost everything I play! Hollow Knight became WASD + JKL:UI and accordingly Ghost 1.0 already had most of those controls in place, so it was an easy pickup for me. I also don't have to fight muscle memory when it comes to swapping between runs of Spelunky / Risk of Rain / Seraph / etc.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Spring Break My Heart posted:

Planescape or Tides of Numenara?

Planescape has better writing.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Mods please change the thread title to "THERE ARE NO DAILIES OR FLASH SALES" thanks

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

-Blackadder- posted:

Man, it's freaking hard to parse what games I should be getting, can you goons give me some recomendations based on the following list of games that I really enjoyed playing....

Witcher series ---- 3 is the best, skip the other 2
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen --- do you like climbing on monsters
Civ V ---- it's one of the best in its genre
Xcom series ----- one of the best in its genre, practically defined the genre tbh
Grim Dawn --- do you like this kind of game? Get Diablo 2 first
Diablo Series --- Diablo 2 is a classic for a reason
Wolfenstein: The New Order ---- shoot all nazis


Also, can you include any little under the radar gems that I might have missed? For example, I never would have heard of Hollow Knight or Hyper Light Drifter if I hadn't seen them mentioned several times in this thread.

Here's my picks from your list!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Awesome! posted:

that was a list of games he already played and liked

I can't read! :downs:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Awesome! posted:

that said, the list is basically "good examples of every genre" so its kind of hard to pin down recommendations off of it.

Yeah.

.... Okay, dude, play Copy Kitty. Best Megaman-like on Steam, and yes, that includes Shovel Knight. :colbert:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Obligatory reminder that there's Gift Train running! Come let goons decide what you should get off your wishlist! Remember to post what region you're in, too!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

loopsheloop posted:

Can I get recs for Darks Souls-y games? I like the pace of combat, the freedom of the RPG system, and the variety in weapon styles. Thanks!

While I haven't played any of these:

Surge - Dark Souls + Robots
Bloodborne - consoles only fast combat

2D:

Salt and Sanctuary

One I have played: Hollow Knight. Dark Souls/Metroidvania/bugs, honestly one of the best purchases I made this sale.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Xaris posted:

i loving love HK and it's easily my indie goty, butI don't think Dark Souls has any real weight in that comparison and gets thrown around WAY too much. Other than corpse runs which are the worst part of the game.


also yes the correct answer is buy a used PS4 and get Bloodborne. it is so loving good

I disagree, mostly due to the feel of combat - swings come too slowly to be spammed, and there's far more timing and dodging than you'd expect from these games, imho. Which makes it more Dark Souls-y - along with the corpse runs and the tone of the game.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

loopsheloop posted:

That's interesting, it just looks cutesy in screenshots - is there a tonal shift in the game?

Thanks for all the recs everybody!

Yes and no. The game has its cute style, but the game isn't really cute? You're a mute bug exploring an abandoned, empty village (except for one person) and descending into this ruined insect kingdom - the enemies are bugs gone mad and essentially hollow, and you can find NPCs who are lost in dreams/mad/looking for adventure, knowing they might die - and the music is pretty somber. The fast-travel system reminisces for when the kingdom actually had people in it, and there's something darker below.

I've only just entered the second area, but I mean, it's a grim little setting with moments of charm. Very, VERY similar to how it felt to talk to the shopkeepers in Dark Souls 1 and wander around the... I am forgetting the kingdom, but it's where you fight the Ornstein and Smough. That whole area. Ruined grandeur, with places that are worse / better.

Honestly the happiest part of the game is the cheerful map-maker and how excited he is to explore this place, while his wife runs the shop up above. Which means I'm worried about what trouble his adventures will get him into... :ohdear: (Don't turn out like onion-head man, bug!)

e: Also, to be blunt, it also isn't Dark Souls. I couldn't be happier with how it's fused Metroid / Dark Souls / Bugs into its own little slice of really good exploration.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Pastry Mistakes posted:

I really want to get Miscreated & Northgate, but early access titles worry me quite a bit ever since I bought Conan Exiles (my own drat fault I know).


Can anyone recommend me a recently released racing game? I grew up with Gran Turismo, so having access to a lot of cars, beautiful graphics, and vehicle body's that can be damaged are some things I'd really appreciate.

BeamNG.drive looks flat out cool as hell, and it having a relatively open world combined with awesome damage physics is right up my alley, but it's an early access title from 2015... I feel like it should be in beta you know? Plus there's nothing else to it, no racing, no nothing. Are the maps actually big?


Also, what's the verbal consensus on Euro Truck Simulator? Can vehicles be damaged in it?

Euro Truck Sim 2 has damage, but it's not really displayed and mostly causes your engine to fail/turn off. There's no...real creative damage at all. And if you hit a train at full speed you just stop and get like 40% damage at the invisible wall.

I mean the game is great but do not get it if you want to race / damage your car / etc.

Instead, get Burnout Paradise. THAT has good damage. :getin:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Bringing back an old effort-post of mine about Roguelikes, my favorite genre!

Roguelikes

Bionic Dues is down to 1.49$, and it's Arcen's weird unpolished game where you swap out different robots as you fight other robots. Worth a gander but you won't love it.

Caves of Qud is at 8.99$! Buy it! You all know the refrain by now, it's the classic post-apocalyptic mutant exploration game where you die to turrets, giant angry bears, and angry NPCs!

Crypt of the Necrodancer! 2.99$ for a beautifully designed roguelike where you dance as you kill your foes - it's wonderful, even if you have a bad sense of rhythm as I do.

Desktop Dungeons is 7.49$, and well - do you like having your brain fried as you try to solve puzzles? It's fascinating and difficult and elegant. *Do not get the goatperson DLC, I hear that class is an utter pain to play as, and only for advanced users.

Dungeonmans! Do you like fun? I like fun. It's 7.49$ for a pure dungeoncrawling experience. No funny plot to slow you down, no weird mutations to pick from, just a straightforward (yet cool) set of skills, your weaponry, and ever-more-powerful bees to kill. Good times. (The DLC is great, BUT do not get it unless you want to add difficulty sliders to the game, as it adds no other new content. The sliders are great and I love the new mechanics and customization, but it's for advanced players.)

Dungeons of Dredmor, a clunky classic for 2.49$. It's funny, its skill-tree hasn't been duplicated by anyone else yet, and it brought roguelikes to the mainstream. I also here there's a tiny tiny chance it might be getting a new patch or something? Fingers crossed!

One Way Heroics for 2.44$ (Add Plus edition for 2.59$!) - A weird yet cool game where you race across the kingdom to kill the Overlord before his creeping darkness swallows up everything. Plus Edition adds a TON of content and refinements to the game. There's an expensive remake that I'd pass on unless you really, really must have more of this game, too.

Sproggiwood. 4.49$ - no time for dungeon diving? New to the genre? This is the holy grail of accessible roguelikes. It's fun to play, cute to look at, and surprisingly vicious. Savage mode is no joke. Play it, and learn to hate twinned monsters!

Sword of the Stars: The Pit. For 1.29$..... you could do better. I'm sorry, but this game is terrible and I don't like it. It's one of the few sci-fi roguelikes, but DoomRL is free. Please play DoomRL instead.

ToME, one of the biggest roguelikes out there - listen. It's free at its website. What you are buying on steam is the upgraded fancy version. Worth it - I mean it's 2.37$ - but please go play the free version first. This game can be very offputting if you're not ready for it.

And then we get things I don't class as roguelikes in my steam library because I'm a nerd, but hey, they're good anyways!

FTL, THE game to play if you want to be captain kirk. Not a fan of the final boss, but you owe it to yourself to play at least one or two games of this. 2.49$

Spelunky is 2.24$ and it's the Indiana Jones experience. I mean I don't need to sell this one do I? Everyone knows it.

New Additions To This List

868-HACK, my favorite simple roguelike. It's almost an arcade game in how fiendishly simple it is. For 4.12$ it's one of the best on the list - carefully navigate a gauntlet of enemies as you collect weird/cool powerups and beat the game - then loop it, going as far down as you can before you die.

AuroraRL weird sci-fi roguelike for 0.74$ - it honestly feels like a game from the 80s or 90s? It's just... very weird, but there's a lot to do and it's cheap, so hey, check it out.

Morphblade - honestly it feels like a phone game. 2.49$ for a simple-yet-complex gauntlet of enemies where you upgrade the board itself with different tiles as you progress. I like it, it's by the Gunpoint guy, but it's not a deep game.

Risk of Rain, my new favorite Spelunky-esque game. 2.49$, has great dynamic difficulty and cool items - you try to clear five stages and their bosses before the timer reaches the insane difficulties, steadily getting stronger - or dying. I love it a lot!

MidBoss - alas, it's brand new so they couldn't do a sale, so it's a full 14.99$, but I like it. It's about possessing monsters and becoming them as you go through the dungeon. You learn skills from them, pick up new loot, and basically have a good pure roguelike experience. The devs are working on more improvements as we speak!

Summary

The absolute best things on this list are still Dungeonmans, Caves of Qud, and Crypt of the Necromancer - and the best bargain is DoomRL, as it's free! Get these four, have a blast!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Darkrenown posted:

Dancer, Crypt of the NecroDancer :eng101:

....oh my god. No one's pointed this out and that typo has been in there since when I wrote it up earlier this year. :negative:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

kender posted:

Only trying to spend $50-65$ this sale, hoping on the lower end.

Dishonored 2 19.99
To The Moon 1.99
Thomas Was Alone 2.49
Rakuen 7.49
Hollow Knight 9.89
Ori And the Blind Forest: Definitive Edition - 9.99

And then maybe Lisa for 4.99 bringing me to 56 and change.

I've heard Lisa is kind of dark, which I don't mind, but are we talking "This will leave you feeling super hosed up" vs "That was awful, but I'll make it"?

I genuinely don't like Ori and the Blind Forest, mostly because it doesn't feel like a metroidvania - it feels instead like a collection of very pretty platforming obstacle courses that get more and more difficult as you go along, and not much reward for backtracking. It's just, ergh, it feels like it could be better and isn't.

i can still taste him posted:

Got away under $100 CAD this year. Picked up a few I've been meaning to play (DOOM, Witcher 3) and some I learned about from this thread. Thanks all.



If you like Shadowrun Returns (and I do!) - then when you're done with its relatively short story, get to Dragonfall and Hong Kong! They're much better games!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Trampy Vampy posted:

The Majesty series sounds like it might be fun, but which one should I get? Majesty 1 seems to be universally loved, but would it be too dated for me to get into at this point? Majesty 2 looks great to me, but people aren't as hot on it for some reason. Would its shortcomings be apparent to a newcomer to the series?

Majesty 1 is still fun to this day and I will never tire of playing it. (*Yes I know I don't own it on steam, I own it on a - gasp - CD-ROM, an antiquated device that carries portable games around inside of it.) It has a whole lot of charm, and it's playable! No problems installing it and playing it now~

Don't play Majesty 2 first, please.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Pierzak posted:

Any good metroidvanias in the current sale? This is what I already have, any major titles I'm missing?

Hollow Knight! Best purchase of the sale so far for me!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Trick Question posted:

Personally, I loved Hollow Knight but hated Ori. It's beautiful and all that, but I found the gameplay to be frustrating and dull - think I got stuck on an ice escape sequence later on in the game and just could not muster up motivation to continue.

Seconding this. Ori didn't feel like an exploration game, either - just a bunch of obstacle courses stapled together.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Mystic Stylez posted:

How's System Shock: Enhanced Edition (i.e. the first one) for someone who will be playing it for the first time? Too dated or holds up?

It's really good! There's mouselook now, so it works like a dream. I've been playing it and I love it a lot? It's got that old-school design with the big weird levels, and the combat's pretty fun for someone who isn't into FPSes. There is a remake in the works, but it looks to be less colorful, which is just a drat shame.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

-Blackadder- posted:

What do you guys recommend for someone who likes metroidvania's with less/limited platforming? I played SotN like crazy but I can never get into pure platforming games.

Hollow Knight!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Bobby The Rookie posted:

I'm not sure what people mean when they call Hollow Knight "floaty," there's no wind-up or slow-down momentum when you move or finish jumping, you have perfect air control when you jump, and you even have varying height levels to your jump based on how long you hold the button down. The timing and arc seems pretty normal to me? I've also not had problems with inputs while using a controller, it's 1:1 as far as I can tell.

Same here, and I'm using a kb+m. No problems making my bug go where I want 'em to go!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

The worst part about this sale is that I'm now sitting in a pile of good games I want to play and getting so indecisive about which one to play that I'm listening to music instead. :negative:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Awesome! posted:

pick something and play it for an hour and then switch to something else. when you forget to switch you have found the game you want to be playing.

!! This is good advice!

I made myself get back to Avadon for a little bit so we'll see how far this goes. (Am I finally going to meet the dragon or will I be distracted by sidequests yet again...)

e: Update: my mage now has a pair of pants! My little trio of Hands all have shoes, pants, and cloaks. :3:

StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Jun 26, 2017

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

LEGO Genetics posted:

I'm thinking about Steredenn

I like shmups, but I'm not sure if I love them.

Any goons wanna convince me?

Dunno about Steredenn, but I need to check: you've played Crimzon Clover, right?

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

-Blackadder- posted:

Goon opinions on the following?

Tales off Maj'Eyal $2.37
Dungeonsmans $7.49
Wazhack $2.99
Ziggurat $3.74
Zombie Army Trilogy $8.99
Windward $2.49
Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons $1.49
Rack N' Ruin $0.99
Stories: Path of Destinies $3.74
Reigns $1.49
Furi $11.88
Dominia $4.99

ToME has a free edition on its website, so play it there to find out if you love it or not.

Dungeonmans is 100% good goon-made roguelike.

I don't know any of the others, sorry!

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StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Octal posted:

I wonder...if I was to get one transformers game, which one should I get? I am open to other robot games as well. Fall of Cybertron looks great, but there is one by Plat games.

War for Cybertron is, in my humble opinion, the best of the best three - War for/Fall of, and Devastation.

Devastation is fun, but it's basically only an okay-to-good Platinum game, and while I adore G1 I felt the plot wasn't as fun to play through as War for/Fall of.

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