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xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

iamsosmrt posted:

I just scraped together the DH multishot strafe build and it's a pretty nice change of pace from the Wiz Tal Rasha meteor spam. It's nice to just hold one button and blow things up, though what are the best options to make it move fast AF in grifts?

Heh, we're the same. I started meteor, and I found it high dps, and pretty tanky. But I wanted something zoony, so I've been using the UE DH, which is a lot more fun to play.

Anyways, I recommend just using maxroll. They have variant builds for each activity.

Compared to meteor, it's a lot less dps and way more squishy, but for farming NR, lower GRs (75 is super quick though), and some t16 goblin / whimsy farming, it blows stuff away.

For split bounties, bosses take maybe 10-15s - totally fine, but feels forever compared to my wizard which one does shots stuff in gr100. But the dh is so much faster, lots of fun.

I altered the wizard build so I could teleport constantly, but still prefer the DH.

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xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
What's the best way to get ancients?

I'm assuming run split bounties, highest fast GR if you need more forgotten souls, and reforge?

I didn't know if there was a more efficient method with shards or upgrading rares that I might be missing, or if certain slots that's better, or something. Split bounties aren't my favorite.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
I know 90 is most commonly cited, but I believe it's actually 100 to make sure they're all legendary. Like 90 gives you 12 items, but one might be rare/magic sometimes.

My dh can't run 90 efficiently yet though anyways. I did test a little on my wizard though, and the above seemed correct.

But most importantly, I just farmed up the rainbow portrait. Got a bunch of rainbow swords and hamburgers, too. I wish you could mog over different weapon types.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Jezza of OZPOS posted:

i assume you had the same experience as me where it was a total cakewalk and then you got rockwormed at the very end

My first one - only had one enemy left. Searched the entire map again. It was a rockworm I missed right at the start. I had 2 seconds left when I found him, and he bites me.

Second time I got it though.

Mustached Demon posted:

DH tip: UEs slow past 80-90. Switch to shadow but don't go below 90 with shadow since it relies on not one shotting everything everywhere.

Good to know I'm not missing something with UE. Thanks. Still super fun.

KenBearlLOLOL posted:

There is no level that guarantees 100% legendary drops, you'll still see a blue/yellow in 150s sometimes.

Ah good to know, thanks!

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Kheldarn posted:

Bounties suck. Set Dungeons, though, are so much worse.

That's my thoughts.

exquisite tea posted:

Bounties are fine assuming you are capable of making any adjustment for doing them quickly. Even in a public group with 3 MeatSims they're over in like 10 minutes and get you a whole bunch of crafting mats, which become super important to basically every aspect of optimizing your character. They also sometimes lead to fun stuff like bandit shrines and rainbow portals, and it can be a good excuse to play an off-meta build. Some of the bounties are still super lame (Barracks ugh Plague Tunnels double ugh) but that's why you build for speed and do those yourself so that you don't have to wait on someone else's slow-rear end barb to do it instead.

Compared to other things once you're at high torments - I just think the rewards come in too slowly compared to how fast you use them. A full set is like...4-5 reforges, and then you're out again. With 13 slots to try to get to ancient, with at least mostly correct stats.

Compare to how (again, at high level of play) quickly you can get death's breaths and other crafting mats (even the basic stuff - make a 31, gamble rings, pretty quick puzzle rings that way, which gives lots of the rest of the mats).

Still much easier than most ARPGs, sure, and it's not like you need ancient gear to do anything in the season journey, but still.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Andrigaar posted:

Never got into PoE, but all of the people complaining about it made me reinstall D3.

I've played a lot of both, and I like both (although yes, GGG dropped the ball hard this league). However, they're so far apart that while there's plenty of overlap, there's definitely also a ton of people that will love one and despise the other.

Although PoE is free and you don't even need to think about maybe wanting to buy something until endgame, and your first time through, that's an easy 15-20 hours in.

I'm done with this D3 season, but I thought it was a great season. I even made two characters, which is a major first. By far the longest I've played D3 consecutively.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Going hard in d3 this season paid off!

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
For d4 peeps - can you not zoom the camera in/out? My scroll wheel works in other areas of the game.

And is there no way to be dumped at the start of a dungeon when done? I've looked around multiple dungeons end and don't see anything. I've just had to tp back to town, which sucks for exploring.

If we have a thread to talk about this stuff, sorry in advance. I assume even asking questions like this is breaking nda, but I didn't really want to like...post on official forums or something. Not sure if there's a blessed-by-Blizz way for discussion. Hopefully these questions are harmless enough to not get them to send a Scooby gang to cancel my account.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
On the one hand, it's fun, feels good.

On the other, honestly...it just overall feels like playing D3 so far. Yeah, there's an actual skill tree now, gear has +skills, whatever. The graphics are a lot better. But once you're out playing, it's not much different.

Running around feels like bounties but instead of grouping up, you just help / get help from other random passersby. The dungeons feel like rifts but with...bounty-ish conditions sometimes (destroy the 4 things, kill all the enemies in this section), except there's no quick exit (that I can find).

Biggest dif is probably the MMO-ish influenced / derived stuff. The achievement checklist busy work type stuff, and it gives you skill points and poo poo so you'll want to do it.

I'm also only like, 16-17 or something. And I'll play more tonight, but then I'm off to TFCon and won't be back until late Sunday. It's weird not having a main questline/campaign, but I'm guessing that's because it's the "endgame" test so it's like Adventure mode or something. Plus I picked some option for less handholding. There are still side quests and main quests, but it's not really taking me place to place with any narrative (which is fine). "Main" quests so far have been the "get a horse" or "learn to use the potion vendor" tutorial stuff.

Just "my opinion" obviously. Like, it's not bad, at all. But it also doesn't feel special. If you told me this was a really big D3 mod I would probably believe it. Inventory feels the same (sure, there's differences, but effectively feels the same). Same rectangle gear stuff. Same gems. Get crafting mats and throw them at a NPC. Equip whatever gear has more +green numbers. Whatever.

So, yeah. Good. Fun. Snappy. But also a bit "more of the same". Maybe the level cap endgame stuff will be more interesting.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
I bounced off of Lost Ark pretty quickly too. Maybe 10-20 hours? Not sure. Maybe less.

It has those MMO trappings of Lost Ark (because it's an MMO, but still). But the combat feels way better - basically like D3 (and if you hate D3's general combat, not sure why you're in the thread). The world / maps in general feel nicer and less...I dunno...just "this is a job I got paid to do" than Lost Ark did to me. Like someone else said, too - I have found that, early game, I have to pay attention to mobs and bosses some. Boss fights also definitely aren't 1-shot blow-ups (yet...). Lost Ark never had me pay attention to anything but my checklist of chores in my time with it. I also felt like Lost Ark combat was more MMO rotation style - and I don't get that vibe from D3 or D4 (even if maybe it is under there or something).

Basically, I feel like the similarities to Lost Ark are only surface level. Where-as this feeling like "Diablo 3 Part 2" is how it feels at its core.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Saying "expecting a wild departure from D3" is very reductive from the point I was (at least trying) to make. I doubt we expected that.

D2 to D3 gives extremely different vibes. PoE and Last Epoch have very unique feels to me too.

This *literally* feels like D3 with a new coat of paint. Slowed down a little, a few new bits and bobs on the edges. The more I play, the more it feels like that. I did some cave dungeon earlier today that was literally the layouts from D3 caves, lol (just different textures and a boss fight). There's some dungeon layout I've been in twice now that is really similar to the inner layouts from D3 that are the...barracks zones from the act where you fight Azmodan, I think?

So yeah, and I'm not even trying to say this sucks or anything like that. I like D3, and really loved the last season, and is the most I'd played a single season. It's just losing flavor fast because "been there, done that" is setting in extremely quickly to me, with how really little new (if anything?) stuff it's bringing to the genre.

I mean there's a horse I guess, so that's a thing.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Yeah it's obviously just text to speech for now

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
The most damning thing about the D4 beta is that I haven't played it in almost 2 weeks and I'm fine with that. I got to the 20s and it just wasn't very engaging.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Just echoing that the closed beta was boring.

I still think they'll make tons, but people will be back to Poe pretty quickly.

The greed on this product is... A bit much. Yesterday I got an email they were doing a live stream, turns out it was them hawking the preorder poo poo, with comments turned off, lol. They also confirmed that like the most expensive bundle didn't actually include the game! He tried to spin it as a "feature" so you could mix and match.

Box price, expansion prices, battle pass, preorder bonus and early start, mtx, likely cost for new classes too like d3 Necro... It's just excessive. Plenty of other online games pick *one* of those and it's enough.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
On the plus side, the internet whining gave us whimsyshire

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

ultrachrist posted:

While the most damning thing is the crunch, which absolutely blows and I don't know why it still happens when other software industries have figured it out,

I think it's a bit of a mis-characterization to say other industries have figured it out. Plenty of software devs have tons of crunch time, no matter the industry. The worst places to work in Nashville are Parking Central and Ausurion - like, their reputation proceeds them. It's where people to go to work when they need a job RIGHT NOW to hold over for 3 months while they search for somewhere better.

To your point though - I definitely agree that it's more accepted, if not outright expected, in game development. I think the reason why is simply because the developers love the idea of working on games. poo poo, when I was high school, my thought process was literally "become a software dev and make games". The latter never happened once I saw how badly devs are treated there (not only all the OT, but lots of "burn and fire, try to rehire 6 months later when the production pipeline has caught up", lots of freelance without benefits, etc). So yeah, I just noped on out of that and write boring website applications.

I really think it's just passion, then you get used to it, then everyone is doing it, and managers and accounting and whatever sure like $$$ (although, who doesn't), then it becomes expected, so better get it done now!

Versus trying to make everyone care passionately enough to crunch for Yet Another Forms Over Data app...gently caress off, I'll go elsewhere!

Bobfromsales posted:

I think it was primarily an overreaction to the idea that Diablo was going to turn into WoW, and that the recently merged Activision-Blizzard was going to ruin it.

I wasn't in the hyperbolic reaction crowd (I even enjoyed D3 in launch - but I also stopped as soon as I got to Inferno mode or whatever, which I think was a couple of times through the campaign?). But in general, Iwasn't a fan of the art style. The "smooth blurry texture" art style of WoW definitely isn't my favorite choice for Diablo, but it's definitely the aesthetic Blizzard prefers. The "too colorful" thing is just...nonsense, lol. That D3Dark direct x stuff made it more appealing (these days you'd just use ReShade). I was (and am) burnt out on the typical Blizzard art style though. I know they love it, and it probably helps keep PC requirements low.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Sorry for the dumb questions - at in laws and all that. But for how much longer do the gifts drop? And did we get any info on wings drop rates (didn't know if maybe Reddit figured it out)

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Thanks!

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Been running some grifts. Definitely not getting a 50% drop rate on gifts - getting about 25-30%. That's with about 60 runs.

Unrelated - thanks for the heads-up about Hades! Been meaning to pick it up, forgot to add it to my steam wishlist to get notified about sales. Not gonna play right away though.

xZAOx fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jan 4, 2023

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Mailer posted:

The gift rate is fine. The rate at which they actually drop cosmetics is super hosed.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - the general community consensus (and from maxroll) is that they're a ~50% drop rate from guardians. Was just saying that unless I'm on a growing streak of bad RNG, seems notably far off from that.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Swilo posted:

You've balanced out my luck, I was getting over 50% last night and found the sword :toot:

The only items I don't have at this point are Wirt's Original Leg and Griswold's Worn Edge, both of which require constantly creating new games and ugh at that point I'd rather play D2R.

The mediocrity one?

I got *two* of those in like my first 20 runs, lol.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
It runs super smooth for me, even though I feel for its age that the time between "I want to play" and "I'm controlling my character" is too long.

It's maybe, 20 seconds? Versus Poe, which is 3 seconds. Both of which are miles better than the d4 beta, which was minutes. Hopefully that was just "not yet optimized" stuff.

And yes, all on a ssd, blah blah.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Tin foil hat theory: they stop doing seasons for D3 to try to get more people playing D4.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
I feel like a lot of the rpg fanbase has Stockholm syndrome. Holdovers from the early pc gaming era where, since it was all new, the fun thing for devs was to troll the player (I know most of the lovely doom / duke / quake maps I made were that way too).

D3 had the crazy idea of "hey what if we make it fun" and old nerds got mad. Hell I loved, and still do love, EverQuest, but that whole "oh you need to work for it" poo poo in RPGs needs to die.

The skill freedom and ability to experiment is a great thing in d3. The endgame is pretty short lived, but the itemization is the real low point to me. But even then, I still have fun playing 2-3 weeks for a season here and there. Just like I enjoy PoE for a little most seasons, but can't be arsed to grind multiple characters a season in it.

Last epoch is fun and good, and is kind of in the middle of the two extremes. The "honeycomb" skull thing in Undecember looked pretty neat but the monetization and rootkit for installation just turned me off from even trying it.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Joke Miriam posted:

I’m out of the loop since playing Diablo Immortal for like a week. Is Diablo 4 going to be bussin or will it be cap?

I'm sure it'll sell billions of copies and many of the ARPG / MMO streamers will be playing it for a week then go back to whatever.

As others said...it's pretty boring. I fizzled out around the late 20s on closed beta. My "TLDR but not entirely accurate" review would be "D3 but less bright and skill trees and a horse and no unique identity". It very much felt like someone forked the D3 codebase and iterated on stuff. Like if D3 was a MMO with a decade of patches, this might be where it'd end up, except more boring.

The monetization doesn't look to be near the trash levels of Immortal, but where-as most other ARPGs and MMOs pick 1 or 2 monetization schemes, D4 is throwing literally every single one into the mix (aside from P2W for the most part). It has:
- Battle pass (free and paid tier, there are exp boosts and stuff here, but it's on the free tier)
- Box price ($70 for base game - most poo poo I buy off steam is like $10-25, most MMO expacs are still $40, maybe $70 is the current console norm or something)
- Expansion cost
- MTX
- Pre-order "early start" (the most P2W thing we've heard about yet, I believe)
- There's some "collector" edition that *doesn't even include the game*, lol

So it's not scummy (other than early start), but it's greedy AF. But given how WoW is monetized these days, not surprising (expac, required sub, mtx, wow tokens). Blizz really seems desperate for cash these days. I feel like they're actually losing money due to the over-monetization of everything, but what the gently caress do I know, I'm not a game-business-economist or whatever. I just know I'm not playing D4 at launch because I don't feel it was worth $70 compared to $0 for a PoE season. Just like I haven't bought Dragonflight when I can play LOTRO / GW2 / ESO without a sub (and I have content I've yet to play in those as-is).

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Really was not expecting a D3 season to have that much of a new feature. Neat! Definitely some insane power creep in that thing.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Herstory Begins Now posted:

d3 remaining the industry leader in 'no you don't have to run the boring rear end story for the 500th time before you can play a new build'

but the w e i g h t

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
I don't even own Necro, and got the challenge rift done first time. I just used the video guide on maxroll, maybe that'll help others.

Because I'm terrible at the game. I'm at like 63 or so. The no level req gear feels over hyped. I'm still super squishy. Maybe I'm just picking lovely skills on my monk (again, I'm bad at the game). I'm saving my cr cache, since the word was the no req gear made it not matter as much, and this way I could use it earlier for the altar. But now it feels like a waste to use it, heh. And the next cr will probably be out since I'm going so slow.

I should've just played enough to get my cube, then get pl'd to 70 tomorrow in like 30 minutes.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Well, saving my cache did pay off. Got my altar up to needing the 125 gem. I got a 124 :( even though I saw it tick to 125. Oh well. Farm more screams tomorrow after work.

The main parts of the altar that held me up were the first blood shard dump that's gr60 (was having bad luck with gambles getting needed upgrades), the gift took a little grinding, and then the ancient puzzle ring that finally happened with the upgrade recipe.

Now that I'm nearing the end of the altar, I realize the worst part about it. I felt like I needed to use as little of my mats as possible to save them for those big sacrifices. Especially cubing stuff. I needed every soul I could get to either sac directly, or use trying to get something for a sac.

Although 500 dbs were a joke to get with the altar, lol. They just vomit out everywhere.

Also, I feel like the kadala thing is broken. My first buying run after getting it, I got 50% leggos (inventory of shoulders). Insane. Since then? Feels exactly the same as always (many thousands of shards, including shoulders again).

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Maxroll.gg has tons of guides, including builds, leveling tips, mechanics overviews, etc.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Have they said for sure if the altar is or is not going into the base game?

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
I really hate doing set dungeons. Even if I get them first time.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Been stuck on the altar at 125 whisper of atonement. I got a few while building my set, but only got as high as 124 with those :(.

Then I went for over 50 GRs (levels 90-110) without another one. Finally one dropped, and I got the 127.

Then I had to run a few GRs to get blood shards....and THREE in a row dropped.

RNG is a fickle mistress. Maybe a fourth would drop next, but I finished my altar and the season journey, so I don't know if I'll log back in, heh.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Welp, it's what we all expected. TBH I've only played the past few seasons in a row - before that, I played maybe 2-3 throughout the years and that was it? But still, I'm okay for D3 to be sunset.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Im_Special posted:

Apparently for S30 Blizzard is going to be balancing, or I should say re-balancing ALL the classes, and ALL the builds

I kept reading that as "for $30" - as in, "thirty dollars", not "season 30", and I was so confused as to what was going on.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

exquisite tea posted:

$30 for balancing is what Blizzard has planned for D4 so it's an easy mistake to make.

This both is and is not a joke.

And that's also what I was non-sarcastically half wondering while I was confused. The D4 monetization is so...everything...that I really thought that they might be charging for class balance in D3 for a minute.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
I've still never bought it because $15 for one class seems bad, and I just don't like encouraging that style of monetization.

Steam sales have really changed what gaming content I see that $15 can buy, heh.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES
Yeah, if you'd never bought anything before they've had some bundles that are a good deal. But there's never any "good enough for me" sale on just necro. I've only seen it 10 a few times, and meh.

How do people like this season? Interesting enough to do? I've done several challenge sessions throughout the years, and the last one was a real great high note to end on. But I'm also basically done with poe this league.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Suburban Dad posted:

I'll pay last epoch when it releases. It isn't as complicated as PoE is it? Hopefully something in between, that wouldn't bother me. I have no desire to play PoE again but I'll probably try 2 when it comes out.

LE is a great middle ground between D3 and PoE.

PoE it's very hard to make a build yourself without a PhD and accomplish anything notable.

LE and D3 both let you play around and try to make your own build and at least make decent progress, even as someone new to its systems.

Although lets be real, I'm following a guide for all 3, and every other ARPG, and MMORPG, and *rpg ever made anyways. The difference is even in PoE, the guides are complex, and it's easy to miss crucial parts that will make a build feel like absolute trash.

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xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Jusupov posted:

I can't believe I finally killed a menagerist goblin that didn't drop a pet. Guess I finally completed the game

But do you have cosmic wings?

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