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Quantum Mechanic posted:The question is ultimately who determines policy - the party or the MPs? Once the members are voted in I don't see that's it's the party's right to dictate what they do. They also have to govern for the other people in their electorate who voted for them who may not be in the party, and they are also supposed to consider the people who did not vote for them at all. If a member is so off page then they should be expelled from the party and become an independent.
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Jul 2, 2017 09:56
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starkebn posted:Once the members are voted in I don't see that's it's the party's right to dictate what they do. They also have to govern for the other people in their electorate who voted for them who may not be in the party, and they are also supposed to consider the people who did not vote for them at all. The fact that party members could set the policy position and MPs were supposed to vote that way was one of the things that I really liked about the greens. Take that away and you diminish the party imo.
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Jul 2, 2017 10:02
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Anidav posted:
SA is going to lose a Federal division in the impending redistribution due to low population growth, most likely the semi-rural safe Liberal seat of Mayo that was won by NXT, with the area carved up between neighbouring divisions. The seat is instead going to a new division in Victoria, probably an urban one. Both the Libs and NXT are spewing. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Jul 2, 2017 |
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Jul 2, 2017 10:09
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NPR Journalizard posted:The fact that party members could set the policy position and MPs were supposed to vote that way was one of the things that I really liked about the greens. Take that away and you diminish the party imo. the members creating the policy is still a great thing to do, and you need to vote during preselection for members who hold the values that you want. But what I'm talking about is the power to bind a member's decisions while sitting and I don't think that's the right thing to do.
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Jul 2, 2017 10:09
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starkebn posted:the members creating the policy is still a great thing to do, and you need to vote during preselection for members who hold the values that you want. But what I'm talking about is the power to bind a member's decisions while sitting and I don't think that's the right thing to do. What's the point in members setting policy if the MPs can just ignore it and vote for whatever?
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Jul 2, 2017 10:11
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NPR Journalizard posted:What's the point in members setting policy if the MPs can just ignore it and vote for whatever? it's democracy baby, like I said, they should be governing for their electorate or their state, not for their party
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Jul 2, 2017 10:23
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It's the opposite of democracy. What if they just straight up lie about their principles during the campaign?
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Jul 2, 2017 10:28
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Representative Democracy vs Direct Democracy Fight
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Jul 2, 2017 10:29
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starkebn posted:it's democracy baby, like I said, they should be governing for their electorate or their state, not for their party Democracy is broken in Australia. If the MPs are bound to the party policy, at least part of the electorate is guaranteed to be represented and governed for. If the MPs can do whatever they want there is no guarantee that they make decisions for the electorate.
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Jul 2, 2017 10:33
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open24hours posted:It's the opposite of democracy. What if they just straight up lie about their principles during the campaign? Can't lie about principles when you don't have any. :billshorten:
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Jul 2, 2017 10:46
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open24hours posted:It's the opposite of democracy. What if they just straight up lie about their principles during the campaign? they're there for the rest of their term as an independent
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Jul 2, 2017 10:52
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starkebn posted:it's democracy baby, like I said, they should be governing for their electorate or their state, not for their party how loving dumb can you get. What on earth is the point of deciding policies if MPs aren't bound to them? What's the point in even campaigning for anyone if they will do something different after being elected?
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Jul 2, 2017 10:52
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turdbucket posted:how loving dumb can you get. What on earth is the point of deciding policies if MPs aren't bound to them? What's the point in even campaigning for anyone if they will do something different after being elected? how about picking people with some integrity and you have a belief they will uphold the same values you hold?
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Jul 2, 2017 10:58
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starkebn posted:how about picking people with some integrity and you have a belief they will uphold the same values you hold? Because the people who run for public office aren't at all adept at lying about that
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Jul 2, 2017 11:01
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 I don't believe the small amount of people who are actually card carrying members of a political party, and actually bother to turn up to vote on issues, well informed or not, can do a better job than the elected representatives who are given the time and resources needed to research issues and meet with stake holders.
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Jul 2, 2017 11:04
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Jul 2, 2017 11:11
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starkebn posted:
People like you are why we get tony Blair.
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Jul 2, 2017 11:22
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the party is a resource, the person voted in is called the Representative for a reason
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Jul 2, 2017 11:34
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abolish parliament, all power to the soviets
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Jul 2, 2017 12:17
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༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ C O M I N T E R N TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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Jul 2, 2017 12:21
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starkebn posted:the party is a resource, the person voted in is called the Representative for a reason You're right, except there's nothing to stop that resource from being available based only on certain conditions. Labor has their own rule, vote the party lines or be kicked out. "Representatives" understand this going into the job, why can't the same apply for the Greens?
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Jul 2, 2017 12:29
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Les Affaires posted:You're right, except there's nothing to stop that resource from being conditionally available based on certain conditions. you've said exactly what I was advocating in the last few replies of mine, if a rep is so far out of line get rid of them. If you mean threaten to get rid of them for every little thing I don't like it. Maybe you want the internet party?
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Jul 2, 2017 12:32
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starkebn posted:you've said exactly what I was advocating in the last few replies of mine, if a rep is so far out of line get rid of them. If you mean threaten to get rid of them for every little thing I don't like it. If you don't like it, feel free to not vote for them, but plenty of people in NSW -do- like it and turfing it out is probably going to be counter productive.
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Jul 2, 2017 12:38
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NPR Journalizard posted:If the MPs are bound to the party policy, at least part of the electorate is guaranteed to be represented and governed for. If the MPs can do whatever they want there is no guarantee that they make decisions for the electorate. Thank you both for the discussion. The Greens need to represent the best for Australia. not just their party. If you want the party that votes for the people who support them, that would be the Liberal Party, who do what their supports tell them, aka their Big Business donors.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:20
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This really does seem to have lost the question of gonski I vs gonski 2 where this all started and has kind of moved in a very odd direction. Even trying to bring it up has lead to "never negotiate" shoutdowns rather than a debate of merits. Until Lee came along this forum was united in scorn over Labor usibg gonski 2 with But The Catholics and their position electorally is we will put the Catholic money back in. Its a far cry from people claiming exploitation of public schools.
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Jul 2, 2017 13:42
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I personally would love to hear Screaming Llama's take on this greens chat
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Jul 2, 2017 15:24
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can you hear the people sing, singing the songs of angry men
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Jul 2, 2017 15:38
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G-Spot Run posted:can you hear the people sing, singing the songs of angry men
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Jul 2, 2017 21:47
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https://twitter.com/jonathonio/status/881291078170591232
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Jul 2, 2017 23:13
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G-Spot Run posted:can you hear the people sing, singing the songs of angry men https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16bFBzx7I_0 ?? Thought this was a new CanPol based on the tag, reading it anyway even if its not. How are you today Australia? Is your housing bubble and resource economy in deep poo poo like ours?
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Jul 2, 2017 23:33
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Furnaceface posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16bFBzx7I_0 ?? DON'T YOU loving COME HERE AND TALK poo poo ABOUT COAL. COAL IS THE FUTURE. COAL IS LIFE. 
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Jul 2, 2017 23:35
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HOUSE PRICES CAN ONLY GO UP
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Jul 2, 2017 23:36
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Bogan King posted:DON'T YOU loving COME HERE AND TALK poo poo ABOUT COAL. COAL IS THE FUTURE. COAL IS LIFE. Birdstrike posted:HOUSE PRICES CAN ONLY GO UP I take it that is a "yes"? At least we have some good company swirling the drain with us.   
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Jul 2, 2017 23:40
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I'd say a definite yes but for the fact that Birdstrike failed to put  in the hauspost.
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Jul 2, 2017 23:45
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i like how some boxer gets a loving ticker tape parade and is some amazing national hero now like wow great some dude beat up another dude
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Jul 3, 2017 00:03
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Recoome posted:i like how some boxer gets a loving ticker tape parade and is some amazing national hero now like wow great some dude beat up another dude look at the thread title
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Jul 3, 2017 00:10
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Recoome posted:i like how some boxer gets a loving ticker tape parade and is some amazing national hero now like wow great some dude beat up another dude He probably made a tonne of money too starkebn fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jul 3, 2017 |
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Jul 3, 2017 00:11
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starkebn posted:He probably made a tonne of mount too 500,000 dollarydoos reportedly, whereas Pacquiao made 10 million lmao
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Jul 3, 2017 00:15
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Recoome posted:i like how some boxer gets a loving ticker tape parade and is some amazing national hero now like wow great some dude beat up another dude And here I thought you liked fascists getting punched 
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Jul 3, 2017 00:22
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Zenithe posted:And here I thought you liked fascists getting punched look its pretty great that the fascist got punched though
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Jul 3, 2017 00:24
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