rudatron posted:

the global south has no incentive to bail out the global north out of a problem that's largely of it's own creation, and a crisis at the center of the global north will have direct effects on the heavy export-oriented economies of the global south. If China and India can successfully transition to a consumer economy, then they could pull up out of it and set themselves up as the new centers of global power, but that's only happening after a period of heavy instability, and no one is going to care about America anymore.

rudatron posted:

both india and china have major environmental problems on the horizon, but neither are intractable, and they're still going to come out of it having the largest populations on earth between the both of them, and they both still have fairly clear & obvious paths towards development & growth, with large enough tax bases to support those investments - that's more than most other countries can make a claim to.

Squizzle posted:

whoa this is sikh erasure

Squizzle posted:

but a singularity wouldnt have any more gravitational pull than the equivalent mass already does tho, right????? so not a doomsday??????????? just the destruction of financial hardware

Digiwizzard posted:

no, i mean that there's not going to be automation. the primary driver behind economic collapse is resource depletion. there is very few reason to replace humans (cheap, replaceable, and getting cheaper literally every second as more are made) with machines (expensive, complex and difficult to replace, require massive ongoing investments in energy and resources). the transition people are theorycrafting is not actually plausible.

Digiwizzard posted:

if you're talking about having powered machines that perform manual labour more quickly and efficiently then humans, that's called industrialisation and that happened over 100 years ago. the economy is already industrialised.

Main Paineframe posted:

Eventually there just won't be enough jobs left for everyone in the US without deep and fundamental economic and social change.. I'm not talking about "robots replace literally everyone, leading to post-human economy", I'm talking "Great Recession levels of unemployment, except permanent and structural". That's more than enough to cause issues.

Main Paineframe posted:

I didn't say it was incredibly difficult. I said that no one is bothering to do it, and that it's a pretty big indicator of how interested manufacturers actually are in mass-market autonomous vehicles.

Digiwizzard posted:

What on earth would the point be? The rich only exist in relation to the economy that provides them with structural power. That economy doesen't exist without the enormous populations and resource consumption that allows it to function at this scale. They could spend our last energy resources committing massive genocide, and then live the rest of their days scrambling in an abject poverty on a ruined planet. Hooray?

Hodgepodge posted:

This sounds incredibly vulnerable to sabotage or outright subversion.

Which wouldn't stop anyone from doing it, mind you.

Digiwizzard posted:

yeah, this isn't going to happen. the sort of globalized trade you're imagining relies on energy abundance and a neoliberal world order that ensures stability and low barriers to trade. we're about to enter a world of severe scarcity, unrest and resource nationalism. the fantasy that you can just amputate all of the things that make the economy work and still have an economy can't actually function. there's absolutely no resilience built into this system, which relies on super massive and super vulnerable supply chains. no country has the insane amount of resources you would require to achieve industrial autarky, which means everything starts to break down because the plumbing system relies on pipes you used to import from china, the power plant needs turbines that you imported from germany, the roads need asphalt as they crack and spall. without a steady net influx of energy all systems break down and give in to entropy.

Digiwizzard posted:

so again, I don't know where automation comes into this. you have a new feudal social structure with a bunch of peasants, and you might even have electricity and running water. an automated workforce becomes an expensive waste of time and resources

Digiwizzard posted:

i'll admit, an automated workforce of genetically engineered slaves who are totally obedient and live on the same inputs as humans would definitely make regular peasants obsolete. but at this point we've departed so far from the realm of the practical that it's like saying humans can't compete with genies.

Stairmaster posted:

That might actually cause the sun to explode. There's a paper on this and the summary of it is that even though the suns like thousands of degrees most of it is still colder than a nuclear explosion so that's why all the hydrogen isn't immediately used up in the fusion process. However if you were to set off a nuke within the sun that could spark a chain reaction.

Quidam Viator posted:

The Carrington Event lasted for THREE DAYS, from Sept. 1-3, 1859. A couple full revolutions of the planet mean the whole world gets hammered, without exception.

Digiwizzard posted:

you mean the places where the earth's magnetic field is at it's weakest? well, you'll be able to enjoy some nice auroras before you starve.

Digiwizzard posted:

Quidam Viator posted:

plus, owned by Digiwizzard lol

Quidam Viator posted:

lmao we have taken this poo poo so far off topic, but as long as people are STILL arguing about my dumbass CME thing which isn't even economic...

I can't believe i'm fuckin seriousposting about this poo poo still it's like the dumbest poo poo.

Digiwizzard posted:

lets add polar cusps to the list of things you don't understand