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 In 1997, two men founded a game development company they called Luxoflux. Their first projects were spin-offs of their publisher Activision's vehicle combat game, Interstate '76, but following the tremendous success of Grand Theft Auto 3 and its two same-platform sequels, Vice City and San Andreas, they decided to branch out. Or, more accurately, to rip off GTA instead. In 2003, Luxoflux and Activision released True Crime: Streets of LA, and the game's big gimmick was mostly that its open world map was an accurate recreation of the actual streets of Los Angeles (minus a few landmarks that were too far off the map, were too hard to recreate, or wanted too much money for depiction rights). Unlike GTA, the protagonist of True Crime is a police officer, and the game also added things like nonlethal aimed shots, hand-to-hand combat that goes beyond mashing a button, stealth missions, and a branching story that could keep going after a failed mission and lead to one of three endings. Unfortunately, despite the game having Hollywood actors playing the characters and a plot inspired by Hong Kong action movies and the thriller novels of Robert Crais, it wasn't quite enough for the game to get out from under the shadow of Grand Theft Auto. It also had a rough PC port and the protagonist was an unlikeable git. But the reviews were decent and the game moderately successful, and so in 2005 the game got a sequel: True Crime: New York City. True Crime 2 replaced the branching story with a good cop/bad cop meter that measured whether you followed procedure and went for arrests or deaths, and depending on how far down you got it could change the ending. Unfortunately, the game was objectively worse than Streets of LA and only sold a fraction of the units, so Luxoflux was consigned to developing movie tie-in games until its dissolution by Activision in 2010. I told you that story to tell you this one. In 2008, Activision made a deal with the new Canadian developer United Front Games to create another open world game, one which eventually took the name True Crime: Hong Kong. United Front was full of employees formerly from other open world developers like Rock Star and Volition, so it was a good fit for them. But the game's development started taking too much time and money, and Activision was still gun-shy after TC:NYC's utter failure, and so in 2011 they pulled the plug. This gave Square Enix the chance to snap it up six months later, rename it Sleeping Dogs (based on the old saying "let sleeping dogs lie," although who the sleeping dogs are is up for debate), and release it in 2012. Like its spiritual predecessors, Sleeping Dogs is about a cop in a tenuous balance between right and wrong, it has an upgrade system that's now based on collectibles and mission experience, the game has a fairly accurate depiction of (half of) Hong Kong Island, the hand-to-hand combat system is extensive and now takes a page from the Arkham series, and if you thought Streets of LA was based on Hong Kong action movies then hoo boy. The game wasn't exactly a critical darling, but it did get better reviews than either of the True Crime games and it sold 1.5 million copies in the first month and a half after release. Unfortunately, that wasn't enough for Square Enix, which tends to overspend on marketing and think in terms of Japanese releases, where virtually all game sales happen in the first month or two. After finishing with the DLC and then remastering the game for a PS4/XBONE/Windows Definitive Edition, United Front Games started working on a multiplayer follow-up to Sleeping Dogs called Triad Wars--but in 2015 Square Enix canceled the game and closed down the developer. Still, the game is fun, Wei Shen does a good job of being likable despite being the kind of person who would be a GTA-clone protagonist, marrying Arkham fighting to GTA gameplay was a brilliant move, and Hong Kong is a real breath of fresh air compared to the American-style cities of GTA and Saint's Row. Plus it's a real blast if you like kung fu movies at least as much as I do, and if you don't yet you will by the time I'm done with you. Feel free to recommend Hong Kong and martial arts films in the thread as much as you like, but if you want me to cover something in particular there's a thing you have to do first. More details are in the video descriptions. As always, you may post spoilers without tags in this thread. I believe that you can enjoy a work better when you know what's coming next, and I like to put that into practice in my threads.
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Sep 4, 2017 17:12
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Bobbin Threadbare fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Apr 2, 2018 |
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Sep 4, 2017 17:13
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Sleeping Dogs is a game near and dear to my heart and I'm happy to see another LP of it.
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Sep 4, 2017 18:06
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Yeeeessssssssss. This will be good.quote:Wei Shen does a good job of being likable despite being the kind of person who would be a GTA-clone protagonist Echoing this. I think he is one of the best take on such kind of character. Iceclaw fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Sep 4, 2017 |
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Sep 4, 2017 18:08
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Sleeping Dogs owns, it's one of my favorite open world games. Shame we'll never get a proper sequel. 
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Sep 4, 2017 18:18
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Doc Morbid posted:Sleeping Dogs owns, it's one of my favorite open world games. Shame we'll never get a proper sequel. I donno. I liked SD a LOT but some stories/characters are better off not sequeled to death.
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Sep 4, 2017 18:28
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Well, maybe not a direct sequel, but something similar at least. I guess Triad Wars kinda fits that description, but... well, it was Triad Wars.
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Sep 4, 2017 18:50
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This game is so much a Hong Kong action movie that their DLC is Hong Kong action movie tributes/parodies. It's glorious.
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Sep 4, 2017 19:00
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I'm assuming this is the definitive edition? Every looks slightly better and more crowded than I remember. I dislike Triad experience for a variety of reasons (that are probably fixed in the definitive edition). You have to play stupidly to get it all - beat on bad guys until they are on their last sliver of health before executing them, talking to every guard you see on sneaking missions... and it still feels like you need to purchase some of the DLC to get the last few Triad xp levels. The game kinda doubles down on fight tutorials and the "Wei is arrested - wait, he's a cop!" cutscenes in the opening. Too many rewrites, probably. More obvious when you're watching someone play. Please show up to that one "he's a rat, a loving rat" Triad meeting in full police-officer uniform. Possibly the funniest cutscene in the game. Looking forward to more movie reviews and fewer "triumph of the human spirit, amirite" lectures.
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Sep 4, 2017 19:18
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i really did wanna like this game. and, like, it's not a bad game. it's actually really good, i can say that with confidence. the problem is that it's only sorta arkham gameplay. the timing on the counters is different. in arkham, you see the visual indicator and then immediately press the counter button. in sleeping dogs, there's still a visual indicator but it means "hey this dude is about to attack get ready to counter." if you press y right away, you end up going into that super vulnerable "you done hosed up the timing" state and get killed. i died a lot before deciding that i wasn't gonna get used to the combat and just resigned myself to watching lps.
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Sep 4, 2017 19:19
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Another thing about the "undercover cop infiltrating organised crime" gimmick: Wei Shen frequently inflicts injuries with the environmental attacks that should be fatal or at least crippling (perhaps most obviously when he skewers opponents on swordfish heads). Not to mention how he can gun down dozens of thugs when he gets access to firearms. He is effectively a mass murderer, yet he neither gets kicked out/assasinated by the triad for drawing too much attention to their activities, nor gets captured by the police for being far too violent. It is a shame that Whore of the Orient never saw the light of day, from what we saw in the short video released it seemed to be a hybrid of this game and L.A. Noire.
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Sep 4, 2017 20:25
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Much like the thugs who get brutalized by Kazuma Kiryu, Wei Shen's opponents are in fact fine unless the game specifically tells you they're dead.  Well, maybe not.
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Sep 4, 2017 20:53
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i always got the impression that wei is supposed to be kind of prone to going way too far when it comes to violence. raymond outright says in the first video that wei's a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules. the whole game is about him getting way too absorbed into the role of being a yakuza thug that it starts to negatively impact his judgment as a cop. of course then that doesn't really explain why the triads don't ever show their displeasure at how many folks he maims but i figure that's just standard video game fare of protagonists murdering people left and right and no one really bringing it up. i hate to bring up ludonarrative dissonance (because it's a dumb term that implies games making concessions in favour of what's more fun to play at the expense of the story) but it does sorta apply here. it's also not really that uncommon in the crime/kung fu movies that this game is so heavily based on for the protagonist to just murder a shitton of people without nearly as many consequences as there should be.
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Sep 4, 2017 21:01
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Azure Dreamer posted:i hate to bring up ludonarrative dissonance (because it's a dumb term that implies games making concessions in favour of what's more fun to play at the expense of the story) but it does sorta apply here. Like, you can (and often do) have a movie where the screenwriter had one vision, the director another... producer, actors, best boy, whatever. And all of these can be in tension with each other, whether to the benefit or harm of the story the media tells, but we don't come up with special terms for editing/sound mixing dissonance.
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Sep 4, 2017 21:16
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Azure Dreamer posted:i always got the impression that wei is supposed to be kind of prone to going way too far when it comes to violence. raymond outright says in the first video that wei's a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules. the whole game is about him getting way too absorbed into the role of being a yakuza thug that it starts to negatively impact his judgment as a cop. That's pretty much exactly that. (Though it's Triads, not Yakuza).One of the DLC shows that he does get his rear end busted back to traffic for his antics in the main game.
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Sep 4, 2017 21:28
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Xander77 posted:The game kinda doubles down on fight tutorials and the "Wei is arrested - wait, he's a cop!" cutscenes in the opening. Too many rewrites, probably. More obvious when you're watching someone play. At least the different fights introduce different aspects of the combat system and the arrests introduce you to extra people. Does seem like they could get concentrated together without losing anything, though. quote:Please show up to that one "he's a rat, a loving rat" Triad meeting in full police-officer uniform. Possibly the funniest cutscene in the game. Can do.
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Sep 4, 2017 21:41
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The main game was pretty good, but one thing I distinctly remember about this game is how much I liked Nightmare at North Point. For one thing, it was nice to see a type of "zombie" that really hasn't seen any screen time in video games play a big role. Mainly though, I think the acting really sold the fact that these people are living in a very realistic setting, and in a moment their world was turned into a spooktacular hellzone. I'm sure that Metal Gear revive (is that what it's called?) Is going to be a disappointment no matter what, but it has some especially big shoes to fill after NiNP. The only complaint I have about it is that it didn't do a sufficient job of warning me that it takes place after the main game story-wise, and there would be spoilers. I ended up finding out about Jackie's death before I saw it in the main game, and it amde that particular part of the game fall a little flat for me.
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Sep 4, 2017 21:42
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Doc Morbid posted:Much like the thugs who get brutalized by Kazuma Kiryu, Wei Shen's opponents are in fact fine unless the game specifically tells you they're dead. One scene early on has Wei say that a guy he brutalized is probably going to be eating through a straw, but he'll live. (paraphrasing) I think the intent is that, with the exception of some of the most brutal environmental kills, the rule of thumb is that hand-to-hand, they live, guns, they die. If Wei killed people early on in the narrative, several plot points wouldn't make much sense at all. (Of course, even going by the plot, Wei kills a fuckton of people. But he's Wei Shen, the god of unpaid debts, and that kind of thing happens around him.)
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Sep 4, 2017 21:49
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So many great lines in this game. I hope Bobbin is able to show off them all. My favorites remain- "I'm the god of unpaid debts." "Objective- Beat up the drunken rear end in a top hat." "They say this is the best day of your life. You know what? They're right!" "My name is Mr. Tong. Have you heard of me?" and everything that happens next. "The only difference between you and me is- I know who I am!"
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Sep 4, 2017 22:06
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Another thing included in the definitive edition is a wide variety of silly outfits, including ones that change our protagonist's tattoos. Bobbin will probably show them off in due time.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:19
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Iceclaw posted:That's pretty much exactly that. (Though it's Triads, not Yakuza).One of the DLC shows that he does get his rear end busted back to traffic for his antics in the main game. i can't believe i caught myself saying yakuza instead of triads later in the post but missed it in the first paragraph  i do think that, in the end, it's not a huge deal that wei shen kills many men despite being a cop, especially since this is also a game from the dead rising school of "let's give the player a bunch of stupid cosmetic customization options and then have them reflected in the cutscenes."
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Sep 4, 2017 22:25
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This is going to be an interesting lp given the hijinks Travis got into in this game.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:43
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Yessssssss. Legitimately I'm looking forward to the film criticism as much as I am the game, game is excellent but so is Chinese cinema.
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Sep 4, 2017 22:46
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Hell yeah! Sleeping Dogs is one of my favorite games, and I'm so excited to see it get the Bobbin Threadbare treatment!achtungnight posted:So many great lines in this game. I hope Bobbin is able to show off them all. Mine is definitely that poor lady on the bus mission: "Let me off! I don't want to be a statistic!"
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Sep 4, 2017 23:13
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I absolutely adore this game and look forward to it getting the Bobbin Threadbare treatment. It wears its Hong Kong action cinema influences on its sleeve, which goes a long way towards explaining why Wei never faces much consequence for his violence. Did Chow Yun Fat's character in Hardboiled ever have to grapple with the sheer destruction he wreaks in the course of that movie? Not especially. So it goes here. And the game does do a good job of contextualizing Wei's character and his history, both growing up in North Point and his time in San Francisco. Suffice to say that his tendencies to err on the side of excessive force are addressed if you put in the time to read all the dossiers and such.
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Sep 5, 2017 00:23
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I'm excited for the Infernal Affairs lecture.Azure Dreamer posted:i can't believe i caught myself saying yakuza instead of triads later in the post but missed it in the first paragraph It's especially funny if you use the cop outfit from the DLC in the main game.
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Sep 5, 2017 02:45
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I always mentally categorize that Sleeping Dogs is like a movie and we just don't think about the fact that in real life, Wei has killed like 30 people. He's a loose cannon cop who don't play by the rules.  Also, the first time I saw someone play this game, the guy kept making puns or witty one liners for every environmental take down, so I've been conditioned to think that too.
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Sep 5, 2017 02:53
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Awesome, another Bobbin Threadbare topic. I actually just started replaying Sleeping Dogs this week and have been wanting to watch some movies that scratch the same itch so this is perfect. e: Can we suggest Yakuza films? Different country/context but honestly if you like one you probably like the other. ee: I should watch the entire video before I ask questions. Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 5, 2017 |
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Sep 5, 2017 04:06
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I have a list of things I want to say. 1) I love martial arts movies and am excited to see this corner appear. 2) I super enjoy Wei's characterization in this game. He's so fun and engaging. 3) gently caress Dogeyes. 4) I have a number of movies that I wanna see bobbin tackle, but let's start with Ong-Bak. That movie is drat fun... Or maybe The Raid. That movie is really loving intense. Are these in your list, Bobbin? 5) gently caress Bruce Lee. 6) gently caress Dogeyes.
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Sep 5, 2017 04:47
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bman in 2288 posted:4) I have a number of movies that I wanna see bobbin tackle, but let's start with Ong-Bak. That movie is drat fun... Or maybe The Raid. That movie is really loving intense. Are these in your list, Bobbin? Funny enough, both those movies aren't just on my list, they're coming sooner rather than later.
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Sep 5, 2017 04:58
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7) Bobbin, why don't you have a pork bun in your hand?
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Sep 5, 2017 07:55
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Oh yeah. When reviewing a martial arts movie, maybe replace "and then they fight" with some sort of discussion of what the martial arts are like? Does the fight look interesting, authentic, original in some way (just a random set of criteria, you can substitute your own)?
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Sep 5, 2017 08:12
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As an Asian guy Sleeping Dogs is the only game where the protagonist's name is similar to mine. It's also the first game I 100%ed achievements on, so this game will always have a special place in my heart. I look forward to reliving those memories. 
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Sep 5, 2017 08:48
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Hmm, Sleeping Dogs. I started watching an LP of this a while back but my interest fell off partway through and I didn't finish. I don't know, I think I just haven't been that into the GTA style of open-world games for quite a while now. I think the last one I played was GTA 4, back when it was new. But pairing the game with a bunch of reviews of the kinds of movies that influenced it should make it a lot more interesting. I was sort of surprised to see Wei described as likeable, though... From what I saw of that other LP I remember finding him to be the opposite. I guess I'll see this time around. Would including clips from the films you're reviewing mess with your writing/editing process too much to be practical? Or would there be fair-use issues with doing that? It's just that it's something that came to mind sometimes in the film reviews in your previous LPs, and I think it'll be more noticeable here: It's pretty awkward to get to a fight scene and have to just say "and then they fought" over a still image. Or something like "and then Jackie Chan did another amazing stunt for real, no wires or anything. You can't really tell from this still image, but trust me, it was pretty awesome". For action movies and especially martial arts movies, seeing them in motion is a pretty important part of getting why they're good or significant or whatever. One reason I bring this up is because I loved Hong Kong action movies growing up, and I'm looking forward to seeing a bunch of reviews of classics - even better if it was with some clips from them. A few that I'd love to see - and that are mostly probably pretty obvious suggestions, but whatever - are: - The Killer and/or Hard Boiled Chow Yun Fat in a couple of my favourite action movies of all time, and the epitome of John Woo's Hong Kong action movies, in my opinion. - Jackie Chan movies from the 1980s, maybe early 1990s I was always partial to the more grounded martial arts movies where they don't use wires to literally fly around while fighting. The stunts Jackie Chan used to pull off for real still blow my mind to this day. I also appreciate how good-natured his movies always were. The Project A and Police Story series are some of my favourites. - Tiger on the Beat Chow Yun Fat again, but I'll be honest; I mainly remember this movie because... chainsaw sword-fight.
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Sep 5, 2017 11:43
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Tiger on Beat also has Chow Yun Fat doing the world's best bad Chow Yun Fat impression. For more movies, there's also this thread... https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3560732
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Sep 5, 2017 13:36
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A good resource for this thread is the Wu Tang Collection channel on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCUpbgPbDccjoB9PxI-nI7oA?videos They have around 2,000 classic martial arts films. Sadly, no Shaw Bros, however.
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Sep 5, 2017 22:49
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lightace posted:Hell yeah! Sleeping Dogs is one of my favorite games, and I'm so excited to see it get the Bobbin Threadbare treatment! "All ancient chinese recipes contain antifreeze." Throwing a hopefully optimistic recommendation that we get to see Hard Boiled in one of the corners.
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Sep 5, 2017 23:59
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Looking forward to getting to be on the ground floor of one of your threads.
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Sep 6, 2017 04:31
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My film hopes- The Raid Hard Boiled At least one Jackie Chan film, no preference Way of the Dragon Dr. Lamb (I'm willing to pay for this one, Bobbin, if someone hasn't already. Drop me a PM pls.) Full Contact (also willing to pay) The Longest Nite God of Gamblers A Chinese Ghost Story for the Nightmare in North Point DLC a few people have mentioned if Bobbin does it Enter the Dragon for a certain other DLC I hope Bobbin is doing (Zodiac Tournament) A few hidden gems and surprises here and there. The first film he mentioned, Mystery of Chess Boxing, I've never actually seen. It's on my list now. Director(Bobbin)'s choice where to put them and how to talk about them of course. I trust his judgement and morals from the many excellent LPs I have witnessed thus far. I also wish to call attention to the game's excellent cast, many of whom are impressive film stars with a good body of work. Among those we've seen thus far- Wei Shen- Will Yun Lee Chief Pendrew- Tom Wilkinson Raymond Mak- Byron Mann Jackie Ma- Edison Chen Winston Chu- Parry Shen Conroy Wu- Robin Shou Dog Eyes- Ron Yuan These people's resumes can speak for them very well- click the links. Rarely has so much talent gotten involved together in a video game (Brutal Legend and GTA San Andreas are the only games of which I know that exceed Sleeping Dogs in terms of talent IMHO). I'll try to list more notable characters as they appear.
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Sep 6, 2017 04:32
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I've already paid for my suggestion (Kung Fu Hustle) and I'm eagerly anticipating it.
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Sep 6, 2017 05:36
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