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https://www.njtvonline.org/news/video/sen-booker-co-sponsoring-bernie-sanders-medicare-bill/ good news, everyone: Cory "importing cheaper drugs from Canada would be bad because, uh... safety" Booker has grasped the concept that publicly opposing improving health care for more americans, in an environment where there is literally no political advantage to doing so, is a bad idea
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Sep 11, 2017 18:45
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axeil posted:Campaigning in Wisconsin wouldn't have saved her. investment banker mad at socialist for being popular sky blue, water wet
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Sep 13, 2017 17:23
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axeil posted:
hillary supporter finds not being met with instant approval for his opinions a horribly frustrating imposition on the natural order sky, water unchanged from previous diagnoses
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Sep 13, 2017 17:29
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I'm not an investment banker.
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BarbarianElephant posted:There were a lot of factors that were "the final straw" because the contest was extremely close. In a lot of ways everyone is right. She lost because she was a woman - and because of campaigning in the wrong states, being a Clinton, having a fight with Bernie, email shenanigans, and Trump bringing the racists out of the woodwork. If any of those things had been absent, she would have won. the only one of these I'd dispute is the Bernie fight one; that was a symptom of an underlying issue. if you wave your hand and make Sanders cease to exist, the Not Hillary vote coalesces around someone else who still takes waaaay longer to put away than he should have, and Hillary still writes a book about how if only he'd given up sooner someone in her campaign would have remembered that Michigan and Wisconsin exist. the underlying issue is that the Hillary campaign never figured out why people should care about voting for Hillary Clinton, and it turns out I'm With Grim Inevitability does not test well
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Sep 13, 2017 17:35
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mcmagic posted:He campaigned for and endorsed her and more of his voters voted for her than her voters voted for Obama in 2008. but you don't get it, mcmagic, he intimated hillary clinton's integrity was less than sterling something that the Republican Party would definitely not have done at any point in the general, if he hadn't given them the idea
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Sep 13, 2017 17:46
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axeil posted:
pop quiz Axeil what happened to Hillary Clinton in 2007
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Sep 13, 2017 17:49
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axeil posted:I think Hillary Clinton is a great woman+politician and The Tragedy of Hillary will be something we look back on in shame and admit that all the hatred of her was due to sexism. the tragedy of the woman shopping around Obama Is A Secret Muslim as a hail-mary to preserve her shot at 2008 not getting to be president will live forever in our hearts
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Sep 13, 2017 17:54
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Hillary would have been a great politician for a different era of politics. she would have been the perfect democratic candidate in 2004. unfortunately for her some young senator from illinois caught the wave and her being bad at campaigning in 2007, and politics did some changing over the next 8 years.
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Sep 13, 2017 17:56
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Jaxyon posted:Wait do you want her active in politics or not active in politics? active in politics would be nice active in "no really you guys it's all the voters and bernie's fault I lost" is... singularly unfortunate, let's put it that way.
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Sep 13, 2017 22:13
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the moral of today's story is that if you don't start no primarychat, won't be no primarychat a lesson that sadly, neither axeil nor hillary clinton learned
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Sep 13, 2017 22:29
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Push El Burrito posted:If Hillary would have just died or became a hermit after losing this wouldn't be a problem. But sometimes she says something and as a leftist I just cannot let that go without my fury. it does provide a certain degree of comparison, doesn't it on the same day Bernie's putting out a Medicare for All proposal, Hillary is launching It's Not My Fault, It's Voters' For Failing To Love Me And Bernie's For Not Campaigning For Me Hard Enough pragmatically, which one of those people do you think represents a brighter future for the democratic party
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Sep 13, 2017 22:33
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Jaxyon posted:Yet we have "I can't shut up about Hillary" chat at about 10x the amount of wordcount as "medicare for all is fantastic and it's catching on" chat. hilariously, when I brought up medicare for all is fantastic and it's catching on yesterday, I was told to shut up and take it to the dem thread weird, innit
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Sep 13, 2017 22:40
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Dead Reckoning posted:This poo poo right here is why I can't take a lot of the more militant UHC advocates seriously. "Beep boop, just take. all the F-35 money and use it to buy healthcare. So simple." The F-35 program is our only option to recapitalize our fighter fleet at this point, as well as that of several major allies, and canceling it would cause grave damage to our national security. You need to make that hard isolationist sell that we should withdraw from our foreign military commitments and leave Europe and Asia to the wolves. Add to that, canceling the program would result in paying incredibly expensive penalties, because Lockheed wasn't stupid enough to massively stake their company on a program that large without a hedge against shifting political winds. (I'm sure someone is warming up a "hold the MIC leeches over a barrel if they want future contracts" response, to which I would respond that the US government deciding not to pay its debts when it's inconvenient is one of the crises we are trying to avoid at the moment.) comparing the top half of this quote to the bottom half of this quote is an astonishing self-own
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Sep 14, 2017 01:17
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Jaxyon posted:
understand, Dead Reckoning's understanding of justice is different from our own  for example, as far as he's concerned, this is a picture of a leeching little parasite who government needs to keep the gently caress out of his country, via wall if necessary. but, you know, he's REAL concerned about government providing the greatest good to the greatest number.
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Sep 14, 2017 03:05
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gonna be reeeeal interesting to see what comes out of that on the one hand trump is definitely stupid enough to have agreed to "we'll increase border patrol funding to [current funding plus ten dollars]," on the other hand Pelosi and Schumer are definitely craven enough to say "look ICE is now only subject to admiralty law as long as we can keep these kids in limbo ad infinitum"
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Sep 14, 2017 03:26
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the redeeming virtue of the moderate centrist is that they genuinely do have no beliefs. while they reflexively oppose progressive policy on the vague principle that doing anything is worse than doing nothing, their opposition is just as flaccid and ephemeral as their support. as every protest movement in history has demonstrated, they can be safely ignored.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:26
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PerniciousKnid posted:The think I worry about isn't Clinton vs Sanders so much as BLM vs Leftists. Democrats need the votes of minorities who are not necessarily very leftist apart from affirmative action, voter rights, murdercops and so on. Black voters are Democrats but it's not a given that they're in favor of gay rights, high taxes, government regulation, etc. the problem with that is depending on the angle you take the number can either inflate into infinity or fall to effectively negative. what's the window in which you're calculating, do you allow for the increased negotiating power of universal health care to have dropped prices any, do you assume that the intrusion of government will magically cause prices to rise, at what point do you set the extrapolations to occur, etc, etc, and that's all before you start talking about any specifics in the actual bill.
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Sep 14, 2017 17:33
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TyrantWD posted:Bernie supporters went nuts over Tulsi Gabbard because she chose Bernie over Hillary. It was very much a personality cult. the second half does not follow from the first, I'm afraid. it turns out that there were quite a few people desperate for a voice in politics to the left of "Single Payer Will Never, Ever Happen" that they were willing to compromise to the point of accepting Sanders and Gabbard- "look Sandy Hook is just a thing that happens" and "Assad's not so bad" respectively- should probably have been a wakeup call sooner than it was. fortunately, the lesson has now been learned, and with luck the 2018 version of the Democratic Party will have a better goal in mind than convincing the electorate better things aren't possible.
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Sep 14, 2017 18:54
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i mean, the man's not wrong, it's a good way to reduce your carbon footprint, but good ways to reduce your carbon footprint are not small in number
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Sep 14, 2017 18:58
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Dead Reckoning posted:When has this been a problem? I mean in terms of actual destruction of evidence. As it is now, spoliation of evidence rules seem to neatly cover the situation. you know how officers body cameras have a nasty habit of "stopping working" at moments of high tension, at the conclusion of which someone is dead and for some reason this is not considered spoliation of evidence
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Sep 15, 2017 22:33
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it's just a mechanical fault, DR. after all, what incentive would the officers in question have to lie.
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Sep 15, 2017 22:38
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Dead Reckoning posted:If the purpose of the cameras is transparency, there isn't any reason why the police shouldn't be allowed to use the recordings in writing their reports. The only reason to withhold it is in hopes of catching the officers in a contradiction and encourages them to try to defeat the system. You want them to want to capture as much on camera as possible, because it will further serve to highlight situations where collection was questionable. Yeah, that's a double standard with how the cameras are used against suspects, but the fundamental issue is that government employees have a massively different relationship with their employer than private sector employees do, and you can't really dick around with that without setting up 5th Amendment conflicts. remember back when police officers body cams mysteriously stopping working at moments of high tension wasn't actually a problem, as far as you were concerned good times
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Sep 15, 2017 23:31
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Mister Adequate posted:Hi yes, Dead Reckoning? I've solved the reality of limited resources: Eat the rich. but that might give some people kuru as a result we need to leave the status quo precisely where it is at the moment because DR is loving terrified the world becoming a better place would hurt him personally.
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Sep 17, 2017 17:27
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Inferior Third Season posted:Democrats are so loving terrible at messaging. Why do they agree to use the phrase "right to work"? Nobody even blinks when Republicans say "death tax" instead of "estate tax". the democratic messaging that tests well is socialist as all hell the democrats do not wish to use that messaging, for an exciting array of justifications to move around saying "it's real bad for donations/post-congressional careers."
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Sep 20, 2017 15:32
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PerniciousKnid posted:Right To Work Is A Rip-Off according to two or three bumper stickers a day around here. afraid you've conflated two different problems there, friend democratic language that tests well includes things like "medicare for all" and "better wages." this is not a secret. they are part of the reason why the most popular politician in America is Bernie Sanders. unfortunately, the reason democrats will not use the language that focus tests well is because, unless committed to whole-heartedly, it actually reduces their chances of winning elections. see, if you're operating in a world where people vote for the person they've heard a good thing about most recently, the thing that decides elections is money. and it is a much more efficient moneymaking scheme to sell your vote to rich people than it is to ask a bunch of people for small donations. and it turns out, for some reason, the people in a position to hit the donation cap to a campaign get really skitchy about donating to people running on "I'm Going To Redistribute Your Money To Poor People." a half-assed embrace of these incredibly-popular-but-not-with-donors policies does nothing but reduce the amount of money you have to run on, and as in any discipline, faced with the choice between gambling everything and trying to conserve a slowly dwindling power base, pretty much everyone picks option 2. end result: the party that lost every level of the federal government to Donald Trump both knew and knows what messages test well with voters. and they will refuse to use them until such time as their hand is forced, because you don't make it to the top by being willing to gamble with your entire business model. systemic incentives: huuuuge pain in the rear end.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:01
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Lemming posted:Overall there are plenty of things to gently caress up wage growth but it doesn't mean intelligence isn't an upwards pressure. which for some reason hasn't functioned since 1980 weird
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Sep 20, 2017 20:18
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Kale posted:I figured I'd come and if nothing else lurk a bit for the latest bi-monthly mad scramble attempt to repeal Obamacare with seemingly no replacement since that's apparently how a government is supposed to function in the midst of domestic and international crisis and because these U.S Politics threads seem to hit their stride during these hand wringer type events. What probably innocuous if kind of dumb posts are you people getting righteously indignant and flinging extreme labels onto other posters about at the moment by the way? It's seems like public thread enemy #1 changes sometimes by the hour so it can be hard to keep track of sometimes. Also is there a designated poster to just get utterly dumped on as people take their frustrations out should the bill makes it's way through the Senate yet? Lastly will there be deep twitter analysis of random rear end in a top hat's lovely hot take commentary for re-tweets numbering in the dozens involved and the re-acknowledgement that yes indeed people hold or at least claim to hold lovely views on a daily basis on and for the internet? I certainly expect all bases to be covered here. sir this is an arbys
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Sep 20, 2017 20:59
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Mustached Demon posted:You have an entire thread for this whining you fuckwad. sorry man, it turns out despite their own best efforts the democratic party remains an element of US politics
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Sep 20, 2017 21:44
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Xae posted:Why are y'all dumb enough to try to engage in conversation with someone who has openly and repeatedly called for genociding people who aren't left enough? congressional republicans: rational. sensible. must be debated and discussed with as equals. people saying "offering to trade people's healthcare away is a bad idea": ludicrous. genocidal. must be cut out from the conversation wherever possible. these people genuinely wonder why they lost everything to a senile game show host, you know
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Sep 20, 2017 22:37
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Hellblazer187 posted:Like, I guess I just don't get what's wrong with 2 Dem senators pretending to do hearings with 2 republican senators if it helps defeat repeal, at all. Remember there's 10 days before repeal is dead. 10 days of theater is a small price for even a 1% improvement in the chance of keeping ACA. it's the "if" in that first sentence that's being debated. see, for example, the democrats' recent brainwave re: "let's signal we no longer are firmly pro-choice" if we lived in a world where Republican voters were swayed by hearing the Party of Babykilling (tm Fox News 2000-present) was now inviting debate on the subject, that would not be a hopelessly stupid move! unfortunately, in this one, it turns out for every working class vote you lose, you do not get two suburban republicans. if you alienate your base for the sake of trying to pick up moderate republicans, you learn the hard way that moderate republicans do not exist. and that you just alienated a segment of your base for nothing. sure is a good thing the Democratic Party isn't entirely reliant on the votes of working class women in midterm electi- oh. oh dear.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:42
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PerniciousKnid posted:Look at this tactician who wants to win elections by running up the score in urban areas while not bothering to run anyone with half a chance in half the country. Maybe if we go all out in 2020 we can win 60% of the vote while we lose the White House and Congress. who do you think you are going to pick up by going soft on reproductive choice, friend the theory "suburban republicans will vote for democrats if we just lean rightward enough" has been tried. it was not successful. why double down.
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Sep 20, 2017 23:22
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Democrazy posted:Once the Capitol Police escort them out of the building, then what? They have no procedural means of stopping this vote if Republicans really want it, they only have a (laughably ineffective) physical means. wow. being televised doing everything in their power to stop republicans from destroying peoples' lives. yes, I can see how this would just destroy the party's public image
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Sep 21, 2017 15:05
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I blame "leftists" we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us because we don't appeal to you because you don't vote for us seriously kids you lost a bunch of people who voted for obama but couldn't bring themselves to vote for hillary, the math on this one is not hard
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Sep 21, 2017 15:36
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Push El Burrito posted:Her record was further left than Obama... so we should move to the right? please don't mind the dead iraqis
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Sep 21, 2017 15:47
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Democrazy posted:If only some people on the left had as much concern for stopping Graham-Cassidy as they did for preserving their own moral purity. we ain't the ones discussing trading away people's healthcare without a fight, my man
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Sep 21, 2017 15:48
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:A core tenet of the left is empathy which you abandon with the third party vote. I'm shocked your conscious can handle it, you sociopath. we only claim medicare for all is a russian plot to destabilize the democratic party because we care
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Sep 21, 2017 16:10
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Rigel posted:Congratulations, you just got a whole lot of idealistic idiots arrested, and they are now facing horrifyingly stiff prison sentences. Meanwhile the media narrative has shifted towards the Dems being an unreasonable, unruly mob, opinion in middle America shifts from "oh my God Trump is horrible" to "geez, both sides are bad", and persuadable votes who could have helped sink this horrible, very real health care bill harden to voting yes to show they don't stand with the mob. That leads to tens of millions of Americans losing health insurance and tens of thousands needlessly dying every year. your masturbatory fantasies are your own business, imo
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Sep 21, 2017 16:46
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Potato Salad posted:answer the question i tell them the same thing I tell the two suburban republicans we're going to pick up for every working class voter we lose "boy, engaging with a fictional construct centrist liberals invented to justify moving right sure is a waste of time!"
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Sep 21, 2017 16:58
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Oxxidation posted:And just like them, you have nothing to offer. You have memes, like the ones Ze Pollack's spouting right now. You do nothing. You contribute nothing. No one in this country is any better off for whatever minimal labor you may put in whenever you're not sitting on your rear end and shitposting. turns out hope has value, friend. you've just got to be willing to offer it.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:08
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Boon posted:It's almost liek the entirely consistency of this and other posts could be boiled down to the bolded part. You just stated exactly what you and others do in these threads. the solution is to support policies that are popular with people, even if they might make some donors mad, Boon. to make public stands in support of the people whose votes you would like to receive in the future. to make efforts to accomplish your political goals. that you consider these propositions attacks on you is ultimately irrelevant, it turns out.
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Sep 21, 2017 17:11
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