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Agree on d2-d4.
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Sep 19, 2017 14:33
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| # ? May 3, 2024 08:56 |
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Tldr for my video. I've been flipping between the two in my head for the last hour. I think I'm keeping my vote for d2-d4, but I can see the argument for 0-0. Good video.
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Sep 19, 2017 15:09
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move. What do you think is the opponent's best move, and what is your best counter to that move?
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Sep 19, 2017 18:50
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Okay, lets see what we do in the worst case from Yorkshire, where they don't take any aggressive moves or trades and use our aggressive positioning to advance elsewhere. (And, whoof, this is where things start getting confusing for me.) So here's something that's concerning me, a7-a6, Threatening our bishop with a pawn. Best I can tell is we take the Knight, putting the King in check again, at which point they're best, possibly only move is to take the bishop with a pawn. At which point, I suppose we develop our knight or our pawns on the left, hoping to use the removal of their knight to our advantage later.  Then there's the move that worried Yorkshire, Ng8-f6. It develops the so far ignored side and threatens an open pawn like that. But we can keep up our aggressive streak and move a pawn, d4-d5. This threatens the knight with a protected pawn, and their best way out is probably threatening our bishop (a7-a6), where I suppose we have to go for the trade and start using our intact left side to keep controlling the center.  Or... we could castle, which gets rid of that queen check threat and lets us threaten the knight if it takes our forward pawn. It feels a bit more useful now, since there's possible threats on the right side on this line, and we can start pushing pawns and the knight forward to let our rook get into play earlier.  Either way, we're definitely getting away from the openings now. I feel like I'm missing possibilities so please, help me out and see if there's things I missed.
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Sep 19, 2017 20:07
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M.c.P posted:
Phone posting again, but I wanna point out something in this image. If we move up that pawn, there's nothing stopping their Knight from double moving and pretty easily getting into our backline such as in your castling picture. In this case, I'd suggest Nb1-c3 to cover the e4 pawn. It prevents their Knight from moving too far and develops our own. The d4 pawn also remains covered by our f3 Knight.
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Sep 19, 2017 20:39
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I'm a little concerned. Black overwhelmingly takes the gambit but when they don't white has never recorded a win per chess.com. I'll put a video up when we see black move.
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Sep 20, 2017 00:27
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Where do you go to analyze the board on chess.com? I've looked a little bit, but I don't want to accidentally cheat. Edit: poo poo, do you need to have a paid membership to see stats like that? LambdaZero fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Sep 20, 2017 |
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Sep 20, 2017 01:58
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I found another website to look at win/draw/loss statistics other than chess.com, but before I use it here, I want to make sure it's fine with Covski. Is it just chess.com or are we really just barred from computer analysis?
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Sep 20, 2017 03:09
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LambdaZero posted:Where do you go to analyze the board on chess.com? I've looked a little bit, but I don't want to accidentally cheat. There's a free trial for a week which is what I've used to look at openings.
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Sep 20, 2017 08:15
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M.c.P posted:So here's something that's concerning me, a7-a6, Threatening our bishop with a pawn. Best I can tell is we take the Knight, putting the King in check again, at which point they're best, possibly only move is to take the bishop with a pawn. At which point, I suppose we develop our knight or our pawns on the left, hoping to use the removal of their knight to our advantage later. In that case, why not just move our bishop back? Bb5-Ba4. It keeps their knight pinned, and our holy man is safe.
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Sep 20, 2017 15:47
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The Mighty Moltres posted:In that case, why not just move our bishop back? Bb5-Ba4. It keeps their knight pinned, and our holy man is safe. They could move b7-b5 and we'd be in the exact same position.
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Sep 20, 2017 16:54
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LambdaZero posted:They could move b7-b5 and we'd be in the exact same position. Good point.
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Sep 20, 2017 18:00
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The Mighty Moltres posted:Good point. Not quite the same position. After that we can play Ba4-Bb3. The pawn positioning we create for them is one where we've removed the possibility of c5 being supported by the b file pawn. Additionally, Bb3 threatens Bxf7. That doesn't look that threatening but a subsequent move to Ng5 later in the game means that we threaten a queen/rook fork. They break the pin, but the aim of a pin is to force them into sub-optimal positioning by preventing a piece from moving and that's achieved by that sequence. I'd have to look at possible black countermoves to properly see the sequence though.
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Sep 20, 2017 18:59
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:23
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LambdaZero posted:I found another website to look at win/draw/loss statistics other than chess.com, but before I use it here, I want to make sure it's fine with Covski. Is it just chess.com or are we really just barred from computer analysis? My only real concern is that both sides should have equal access to sources of information. PM me the link and I'll post it simultaneously in both threads 
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Sep 20, 2017 19:27
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I cannot wait to read the other threads after this. I'm really wondering if there was any discussion about whether or not to take that pawn. Nf3xd4 seems like the right move from the analysis posted earlier but I'm going to hold my vote until I get home, just in case.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:46
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A general reminder: Please remember that there are players on both teams that have literally no chess experience prior to this game! I'm not saying you should stop making effort posts and the like (because those are all great!), but it's great if you're willing to spend some extra effort to help less experienced players being able to understand what's going on! As for new players, don't be afraid to ask questions! Me/mentors/teammates are happy to help out! On the same note, apologies for slacking off with the infoposting recently! I'll be covering a few topics in the near future (primarily some thoughts on active defence and some ideas on when you want to make an exchange of pieces or not). If you feel that there are any other topics that are unclear and should be covered as soon as possible, let me know! Finally, I've been updating the Chess by Post-post in the OP regularly as goons sign up, check it out if you want an opportunity to play some friendly games.
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Sep 20, 2017 19:49
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CascadeBeta posted:I cannot wait to read the other threads after this. I'm really wondering if there was any discussion about whether or not to take that pawn. The database I found showed that black takes the pawn literally 99.99% of the time. It's actually pretty crazy because it doesn't seem like the best move to me.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:06
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LambdaZero posted:The database I found showed that black takes the pawn literally 99.99% of the time. It's actually pretty crazy because it doesn't seem like the best move to me. Which is amazing given that the situations that they don't have much higher black winrates. It's so odd. Anyway, this seems like a pretty trivial Qd1-Qxd4 move on face. I'll do an info video a little later if I can.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:40
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We may want to avoid taking that pawn right now, as the capturing piece is right in line to be captured by the black knight. We'd lose either a knight or our queen to capture a pawn that isn't yet a major concern.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:50
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chitoryu12 posted:We may want to avoid taking that pawn right now, as the capturing piece is right in line to be captured by the black knight. We'd lose either a knight or our queen to capture a pawn that isn't yet a major concern. It would put the king in check, so Nxd4 is not a legal move. I think Qd1-Qxd4 is solid. The queen is safe and it develops another piece. If we captured with the Knight, it wouldn't be necessarily bad, but we would have just the one piece in the center.
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Sep 20, 2017 20:57
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LambdaZero posted:It would put the king in check, so Nxd4 is not a legal move. I think Qd1-Qxd4 is solid. The queen is safe and it develops another piece. If we captured with the Knight, it wouldn't be necessarily bad, but we would have just the one piece in the center. True. In that case, what are the arguments for which capture is better?
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Sep 20, 2017 21:02
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chitoryu12 posted:True. In that case, what are the arguments for which capture is better? I'll try my hand at a real effort-post when I get home in about six hours. Unless someone beats me to the punch.
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Sep 20, 2017 21:17
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I like Qd1-Qxd4, doesn't seem to lead to anything too bad for us beyond a whole lot of threatened pieces and opportunities for trades. I think their best response would be e7-e5, which we can take with Nf3xe5 and leave them the option for a queen exchange. I can see them running their queen away Qd8-g5 which gets them closer to a castle. Either way it's one of their only options that doesn't have an obvious counter or doesn't trigger an exchange. f7-f5 also looks likely for a response, it can lead to a pawn exchange that lets them develop their bishop and get them closer to a castle.
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Sep 20, 2017 22:34
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Decoy Badger posted:I like Qd1-Qxd4, doesn't seem to lead to anything too bad for us beyond a whole lot of threatened pieces and opportunities for trades. The Nf3xe5 response leaves us a knight down if I'm right.
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Sep 20, 2017 23:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkIOWwZDag Video's processing, I think Qd1-Qxd4 is a no brainer here. Edit: forgive me for the mispost about the move. I posted this at like midnight and was sleepy. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 00:06
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Qd1-Qxd4 is definitely the right move here. One other interesting line we could take if they don't end up moving their queen is threatening the queen with our C1 bishop, which is protected by our knight.
CascadeBeta fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 01:14
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Getting the Queen active sounds like fun to me, that's solid reasoning for making a move in a strategic game right?  Qd1-Qxd5
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Sep 21, 2017 01:19
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Yorkshire Tea posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHkIOWwZDag Let's do it. Let's do something legal instead! Qd1-Qxd4 LambdaZero fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 01:47
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Qd1-Qdx4. Only thing to watch here is that it pseudo pins* our bishop at b5 since making any move with the bishop except taking the knight means they immediately use the knight to take our queen with Nc6-Nxd4. Not an issue as long as we're paying attention but if we forget about it, that could screw us hard down the line. Just something to keep in the back of our collective hive mind. *I don't know if there's actually a term for this situation. I don't think it's a "true" pin per se because we can easily get out of it on our own by just taking the knight, but the bishop isn't really free to move either. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 03:33
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Yeah, after playing through with board states, I'm not convinced Qd1-d5 is the move here. We're still developing, I believe, and moving the Queen around turn after turn as they move our pieces up and protect our Queen. That doesn't sound very productive to me. They move their pieces into better positions, we move the same piece over and over to not get it captured. Yorkshire's vid is pretty good, like he covered what happens if they move their pawn up to attack our Queen, e7-e5, then we move Qd4-d5. And then he talks about a Bishop capture, which is more or less the ideal scenario for us to initiate trades that take their rook. But what if they move Ng8-f6? Now our Queen needs to move again, for the third turn in a row. And their Knight is out. Also, after they move the pawn out, Yorkshire doesn't cover scenarios where black just moves their King and goes, eh, gently caress castling and goes Ke8-e7. Then we lose our Bishop or our Queen. And again, we'd have to move the Queen for a third turn in a row. Maybe more depending on their future responses. For instance, if we keep on the same row, they can ignore the bishop and just threaten our Queen some more. But if you went Qd4-c4 in response to the pawn moving up, it's safer, right? Well, if they move the Bishop up, Bc8-e6. Then we can take their Knight and "force" a check but again, if they just move their King, then we have to decide whether we want to keep our Queen or our Bishop. I think the Nf3-d4 capture is really strong, less aggressive and is the way to go here. Also safer, and sets us up better. TLDR: I'm against using the Queen to capture because it looks like they could just continually harass us while setting up their board. The Knight capture is safer and has less fewer risks. We might also be able to intiate a sequence to take their Rook after we bring the Knight up, but that depends on Black's follow up (not sure what this would be). I'll post that sequence if it becomes feasible. No pics, in a rush, sorry. But yeay! This has been the most interesting turn to participate in so far.
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Sep 21, 2017 04:34
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Yo I'm really not excited into getting our Queen in play this early. And there's a part of me that wants to castle sooner rather than later because with all our center being moved up the king is getting more vulnerable. Nf3xd4 accomplishes more, the queen just threatens pawns. And I have a gut feel we should castle sooner rather than later but I'm a bit late to really analyze it.
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Sep 21, 2017 04:55
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So one move off Qxd4 followed by e6 is to just move the queen back a square to d3. Not the first thing I considered, but it appears to be safe and protect both our central pieces. From there we have space to go for a castle or develop our queen side.
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Sep 21, 2017 08:32
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When the White Queen first saw the black army land upon the shores of her homeland, she knew the ensuing war would result in many casualties. She wasn't prepared for this, though. She knew him well, the one who was killed. He was only fourteen years old, and had never even harmed a fly. But when the ships appeared on the horizon he had come to her personally, and asked for permission to fight for the kingdom. She gave him a sword and quickly taught him how to use it. Now his lifeless body lies on the ground. The naïve innocence once present in his eyes replaced by a look of horror, forever preserved there from his final moments alive. She can not stand for this. She must make an example of the one who ended his short life, but mostly she must be an example to her people. Qd1-Qxd4 The Mighty Moltres fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 10:58
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Can I just say that I haven't been able to comprehend a single post on this entire page? I feel like this thread is being taken over by two or three people who kinda know what they're talking about and leaving the rest of us who know very very little in the dirt. Its overwhelming as heck, remember that this is a newbie game, you guys. Some of us are still trying to get to grips with notation and remembering how the pieces move
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Sep 21, 2017 11:21
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I've made a video to explain why I think using the Queen to capture is not as desirable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhscJp1gVlA Sorry about my video quality - I haven't figured out cropping and need to go like nowww Hope this helps Faerie Fortune and anyone else struggling to follow along!
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Sep 21, 2017 12:20
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Faerie Fortune posted:Can I just say that I haven't been able to comprehend a single post on this entire page? I feel like this thread is being taken over by two or three people who kinda know what they're talking about and leaving the rest of us who know very very little in the dirt. Its overwhelming as heck, remember that this is a newbie game, you guys. Some of us are still trying to get to grips with notation and remembering how the pieces move Part of the problem could be that people are saying Qd1-Qxd5, which isn't actually a possible move right now. It's great that you spoke up though, this game is moving a lot faster than I expected it to also. I find it's easiest to refer back to the board Covski posts (the "you/black have 24 hours..." board) before, during, and after reading each and every suggestion.. Keep in mind that a lot of what is discussed is pure speculation based on how the board currently sits, written by people who are just as clueless as you are. None of us really KNOW, because like you said, this is a newbie game! Make sure to refer back to the OP if you're getting confused with how pieces move, and check Wikipedia if you're stuck on notation. I've had to. Edit so I'm not double posting: In response to Artelier's video, if they decide to go with e7-e5 after our queen kills their pawn, we could just respond with Qd4-Qc4. Just move her over one spot and she'll be out of danger. The Mighty Moltres fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Sep 21, 2017 |
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Sep 21, 2017 12:36
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Yeah gently caress it, Qd1-Qxd5.
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Sep 21, 2017 13:53
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Cov can we assume that people calling for Qxd5 mean Qxd4. It was my fault for accidentally typing in the wrong move.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:10
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| # ? May 3, 2024 08:56 |
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Yeah uh I just copy pasted.  Mark me down as definitely meaning Qd1-Qxd4.
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Sep 21, 2017 15:35
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