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i think that Bc1-Bf4 sounds cool and here's why: bishops are cool and my friends, and having two bishops out would be h*ckin cool for sweet diagonal strikes yo
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Sep 21, 2017 17:48
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| # ? May 3, 2024 15:46 |
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Faerie Fortune posted:Can I just say that I haven't been able to comprehend a single post on this entire page? I feel like this thread is being taken over by two or three people who kinda know what they're talking about and leaving the rest of us who know very very little in the dirt. Its overwhelming as heck, remember that this is a newbie game, you guys. Some of us are still trying to get to grips with notation and remembering how the pieces move I mean, a lot of us are trying to be as legible as possible here. I've got videos showing what I mean and a bunch of the other guys are posting really good illustrations of the ideas that they have. But at some point if we're to have a discussion we end up having to abbreviate things. For example, typically I post something in detail once a day once I'm done with work stuff at home, go to sleep and I can respond to stuff that's posted subsequently about once a day, from my phone on the train in. I need to be able to comment on what other people have said meaningfully, but I can't realistically post a diagram from my phone so I have to abbreviate. There's a point where yes, abbreviation harms very basic understanding, but once you're slightly above that level it helps facilitate discussion between people I assume are busy goons with real lives, since we gain breadth to phone post or quickly send something when we have a half minute at the computer. I suppose the best thing to ask is what exactly are you finding difficult to follow? Saying everything's impossible to understand, whilst it may be true, doesn't really tell us anything about what you're struggling with. And I mean, on a team of 13 or so, last page we had 8? people or so making really helpful points about what moves are available.
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Sep 21, 2017 20:41
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move. What do you think is the opponent's best move, and what is your best counter to that move?
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Sep 22, 2017 01:29
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My first thought would be Bc8-g4, threaten our Knight a little and start working towards clearing the obstacles in the way of a castle, to allow their own Knight to stop being pinned and, if we hypothetically didn't move at all over the left side of the board, one day have our Queen in danger. But that's my own novice-level planning.
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Sep 22, 2017 01:34
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AlphaKretin posted:My first thought would be Bc8-g4, threaten our Knight a little and start working towards clearing the obstacles in the way of a castle, to allow their own Knight to stop being pinned and, if we hypothetically didn't move at all over the left side of the board, one day have our Queen in danger. But that's my own novice-level planning. The fortunate thing about that plan is that since we moved our queen, we can just move the knight, and that bishop doesn't threaten anything. I think they're going to want to break that pin on their own knight, but I'm not sure the best way to respond to that.
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Sep 22, 2017 03:09
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Just to illustrate what happens after Bc8-g4. Our knight can move to any of these four squares safely. Once it's out of the way, the bishop is just sitting there, and nothing productive gets done with it. They move Bc8-g4:  What I'm really afraid of is either Bc8-d7 or Qd8-d7. Both of these free their knight to threaten our queen and the lines are similar, so I'll just show it with Bc8-d7. They move Bc8-d7:  So from what I see, we have two moves that remove our queen from danger. First, Qd4-d3. Moving the same piece twice is not optimal, but this move does have the benefit of covering both our bishop and our knight. They move Bc8-d7, We move Qd4-d3:  Secondly, we can move Bb5xc6 and simply take the knight with our bishop, but they'll immediately retake with either their bishop or their pawn like so: They move Bc8-d7, We move Bb5xc6:  Of these, I like moving the queen back a square the best, but I'm not going to campaign for a move until we see theirs. I found a line earlier where we could initiate a queen-trade, but honestly I've forgotten it and I wasn't super fond of the idea anyway. If I remember it, I'll post about it just to put it out there.
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Sep 22, 2017 04:45
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I finally downloaded the Chess by Post app as LambdaZero. Sorry for the triple post.
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Sep 22, 2017 18:36
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 Bd7 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Sep 24, 2017 22:52
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Okay, so we basically have two (real) options and one awful dumb one: 1.) Take the knight with our bishop, Bb5xc6. Presumably, they will immediately take our bishop with something else, so this is basically just trading pieces. 2.) Move the queen somewhere. 3.) Do something totally unrelated and watch our queen die. This seems really stupid to me, unless someone can make a really great case for why. I don't honestly love any of the options, but I'm guessing #1 is probably best. Moving the queen will at best cost us some tempo and probably get her trapped pretty quickly. So I think taking the knight will free up the board a little and get some more options. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Sep 25, 2017 |
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Sep 24, 2017 23:42
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I gather from the fact all of my opponents on Chess by Post were willing to and beat me that trading a Bishop for a Knight is worth it. I'll refrain from voting, though, until other people have a chance to potentially point out something better.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiXYI7v9wU0 Video's up in a second. Bb5-Bxc6 Letting the knight go free lets them play queen runaround which takes control of the game from us. The trade is profitable since the bishop's or pawn's positioning at the end of it is worse than the positioning of our pieces.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:09
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LambdaZero posted:Just to illustrate what happens after Bc8-g4. Our knight can move to any of these four squares safely. Once it's out of the way, the bishop is just sitting there, and nothing productive gets done with it. Quick thing I noticed in my video is that Qd4-Qd3 is followed by Nc6-Nb4, which threatens our queen again and forces us to move her three times in a row.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:11
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Quick thing I noticed in my video is that Qd4-Qd3 is followed by Nc6-Nb4, which threatens our queen again and forces us to move her three times in a row. drat, it's always the knights that trip me up. Bb5-Bxc6 it is then.
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Sep 25, 2017 00:17
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We seem to agree that is our best option, then. Confirming Bb5-Bxc6.
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Sep 25, 2017 01:10
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Yeah, I think Bb5-c6 is the best here. Don't see any other meaningful lines of play since the previous turn where I tried this move out. Note that instead of taking the trade immediately, they might just move their pawn up, e7-e5, forcing us to move our Queen anyway, and getting our bishop the next turn anyway...
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Sep 25, 2017 02:28
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Yep, Bb5-Bxc6.
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Sep 25, 2017 02:29
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Bb5-Bxc6 looks to be our only good move here.Artelier posted:Note that instead of taking the trade immediately, they might just move their pawn up, e7-e5, forcing us to move our Queen anyway, and getting our bishop the next turn anyway... That would be really good for us, since then we could take their bishop with ours and put them into check again. Then we'd get to escape with the queen while taking a very favourable trade.
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Sep 25, 2017 14:12
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Qd4-Qc4 They can threaten our queen by going with Nc6-Ne5, but we can just respond by taking their knight with ours. Then it'll be a knight exchange, but I don't feel like we'd lose any tempo by just moving our queen over a spot. It'd be a move unforeseen by team black, and we don't have to give up our bishop. (I'm posting this pretty late, so of course I will succumb to the hive mind if need be. I just wanted to reiterate my earlier post defending the queen move we've gone and did.)
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Sep 27, 2017 15:37
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They also have Nc6-Na5 to respond to that.
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Sep 27, 2017 16:03
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Didn't even see that. And I wonder why I keep losing games!
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Sep 27, 2017 16:36
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^ I know the feeling. In the previous thread, people suggested moves and I was oftentimes like  But mostly I'm just posting to make sure I didn't miss anything. I hope any delays is due to normal life circumstances and not unfortunate life circumstances!
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Sep 28, 2017 16:57
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Hey thread! Sorry about the lack of updates, the last week has been a perfect storm of being incredibly busy, fighting a pretty terrible cold, topped of with my laptop's supremely non-standard power adapter dying. The game will resume once I get a new one sorted out!
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Oct 1, 2017 20:12
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Aaaand we're back! Sorry about the hiatus, hopefully people still remember this game exists   1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Oct 10, 2017 21:41
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I picked the right time to remember that this thread exists.
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Oct 10, 2017 21:47
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 You have 24 hours to decide on a move. Also: We're far enough into the game that we're well out of standard openings, so from this point on  looking up the board position or future lines is no longer allowed. Not saying you can't post if you've read up on lines earlier, but please refrain from doing it from this point on 
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Oct 11, 2017 22:47
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At this point, I feel like Nc3 is our best shot. That bishop seems very dangerous, but moving our other knight there will both get the knight on the field and defend every single one of the spaces in our general zone of control that their bishop could move into.
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Oct 11, 2017 22:58
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I concur with Nb1-c3. I made a diagram to reinforce the point if anyone wants but I'm on phone so it's real, real bad.
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Oct 11, 2017 23:09
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Guys, if they play e7-e5 what do we do?
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Oct 12, 2017 09:15
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Don't see anything better than Nb1-c3 right now. If they go e7-5 it seems like we would be led into a big queen chase. Although if we then go Nf3xe5 and they take the offered knight with their d6 pawn, then they open themselves up to a check via our queen. On the surface taking the e7 pawn with our knight looks like a dumb idea but it might leave us in a better position without having to waste moves shuttling the queen around.
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Oct 12, 2017 15:26
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Guys, if they play e7-e5 what do we do? That's an implicit sacrifice of both queens. Our knight could then take that piece, and if their pawn were to then take our knight, there'd be a direct line open for our queen to hit theirs. While it'd be a solid loss, I seriously doubt they'd risk the loss of their queen before even moving her once.
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Oct 12, 2017 19:33
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Nc3 Black has 24 hours to decide on a move. What do you think is the opponent's best move, and what is your best counter to that move?
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Oct 13, 2017 13:45
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Let's talk about when it is a good idea to make equal exchanges of material! Remember, material is compared by the number of pawns a piece is worth. (8~ for queens, 5 for rooks, around 3 for bishops and knights - we'll get back to them) Knowing when to exchange is a big part of chess. Many new players (and some more experienced players) err either on the side of never being willing to make equal exchanges, or on the side of taking every exchanged offered to them. Neither gut instinct is usually correct - here are some ideas on when exchanging is a good idea. When you are up material: Generally speaking, you can comfortably trade off material from the board when you already have a material advantage. The reasoning for this is simple: Having 4 pawns to the opponent's 3 is a 25% material advantage, having 2 pawns to the opponent's 1 is a 100% advantage. Making equal exchanges makes your proportional advantage greater when you're already ahead. When you are at a positional disadvantage: If your position on the board is very constrained at you are under a lot of pressure on several important squares, trading material can be a good way to relieve the tension and take some of the pressure off, giving you more options. Conversely, when you are the one applying the pressure you want to avoid making trades as much as possible. When the exchange improves your position on the board: Oftentimes, this is done by worsening the opponent's pawn structure. These small positional advantages can be subtle and hard to recognise when you are new to the game, but they will add up over the course of the game. As a rule of thumb, pawns are stronger when they can protect each other, while doubled pawns (two pawns on the same file) are weak and hard to protect. This point also applies to situations when you can make the opponent lose tempo by recapturing with a piece ending up on a less relevant space on the board, but pawn weaknesses are longer term problems since pawn moves are irreversible. Conversely, you rarely want to make or offer a trade which allows the opponent to improve or repair their pawn structure. When you can trade a bad piece for a good piece: A "good" piece in this case is an active piece that can do dangerous things on the board. This is especially obvious with bishops, as their usefulness is very dependant on what pieces are stationed on their colour of square. A bishop hemmed in by your own pawns is a lot less useful than a bishop with a lot of potential targets. This is the reason why the relative value of bishops and knights is such a matter of debate: Not only do bishops tend to get stronger as the board clears (opening diagonals for their long range shenanigans), but their usefulness also varies based on pawn structure. Trading a bad bishop for a good knight is almost always a good trade. There are of course other scenarios when an exchange can be a good idea, but these are some of the most common things to look for. If you know that you are a stronger player in the late game than your opponent, or that your opponent happens to be extraordinarily good with a certain piece? Don't be afraid to trade! Just remember to avoid making exchanges without a good reason, and always remember that all the examples I've discussed work both ways: Trading for the sake of trading risk giving an advantage to your opponent!
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Oct 13, 2017 14:21
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There are so many responses to them going e7-e5 that it's hard to think about. 1: Take the e7-5 pawn with the right knight. This would lead to a queen exchange as our best outcome. 2: Move the bishop c1-g5 to threaten their queen. This is another queen exchange but we lose a bishop instead of a knight. 3: Move the queen away, maybe to c4? This gives us a lot of flexibility but we might end up just constantly moving our queen around for no gain. I feel like option 3 would give us the most freedom going forward. Losing a knight for a pawn and unwinding all the territory we controlled doesn't sound like a fun time. I'm feeling like moving the queen out so early was a blunder on our part.
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Oct 13, 2017 22:36
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ Nc6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Qxd4 Bd7 6.Bxc6 Bxc6 7.Nc3 Nf6 You have 24 hours to decide on a move.
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Oct 18, 2017 21:14
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Edit: Yorkshire's convinced me, changing my vote to Bc1-g5. I think now is the time for a Decoy Badger fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 19, 2017 |
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Oct 19, 2017 03:44
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I agree with a king's side castle. Not only does it secure the king and get our rook in position, if I understand the castling rules correctly, it'll place the rook at e1, guarding the middle spot at e4 from attack by either that bishop or that knight. At worst for us, that'd lead to a material trade of their bishop and knight versus our rook, and while that's not great, it would retain material advantage in the center while leaving them without any knights. Not a good move for them, IMO. Huh, chess is actually pretty fun.
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Oct 19, 2017 03:48
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I also agree with 0-0. Bc1-g5 looked like a ballsy option for a second to threaten the Knight, but it's backed up by pawns. 
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Oct 19, 2017 04:03
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AlphaKretin posted:I also agree with 0-0. Bc1-g5 looked like a ballsy option for a second to threaten the Knight, but it's backed up by pawns. I think Bc1-g5 is actually the best option we have open. Here's why: For those suggesting a Kingside Castle, it ends up with a rook sat at f1. That's not a bad place to be, but does nothing for our current structure. To get the Knight in the game we'd have to move our pawn up or move our rook across in a later move which kills our momentum. So we end up with a board like this:  At which point Black can do basically anything it wants to. Probably moving a pawn e7-e5 and forcing us into queen runaround. We're not in a bad spot there, but equally it's not very predictable imo. Black has any number of moves that aren't e7-e5. Contrast:  The obvious and only real response to this is:  And we can then choose to take the knight or move back. We've been planning on this, so we take the knight.  Their two options subsequent to this are to capture with e7, at which point they've just lost a central pawn or they capture from g7 which is slightly better:  At which point we Queenside castle:  We're left in a position here were Black can't do anything with its f8 bishop because it's walled in by its own pawns entirely. Our castle is in play and backing up our queen, which makes any attempted queen exchange fall in our favour. If they play e7 to e5 now it has no teeth any more since they can't pin our queen with weird Knight attack angles. If they do literally anything else we get Rook from h1 to e1 for free. So yeah. Bc1-g5
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Oct 19, 2017 13:27
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I agree that Bc1-g5 is the best move, however, would we care if they take our pawn with their knight instead of moving that pawn up one? Probably not but that's the only other thing I can see happening.
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Oct 19, 2017 14:50
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| # ? May 3, 2024 15:46 |
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I’m on my phone and can’t quote well, but Yorkshire’s analysis seems solid to me as it seems castling just gets us into an endless and unproductive Queen runaround. Bc1-g5.
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Oct 19, 2017 15:14
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