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Changing my vote to c7-c5.
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Sep 13, 2017 08:13
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From the other thread:Covski posted:
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Sep 13, 2017 16:44
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 1.e2-e4 c7-c5 White has 24 hours to decide on a move. The Sicilian Defence is probably the most well researched opening in the game, so remember my earlier suggestion to regard the book moves as options to choose from and to consider carefully the pros and cons of each choice, as well as remembering that me and the mentors are around if you have any questions or need any pointers! Again, at least for the opening I'll consider any questions that can be answered without suggesting specific moves fair play! Also: Although chess if famous for being a game where you need to be able to calculate several moves ahead, I'm willing to argue that this is at least in part overstated. Being able to visualise just two or three moves ahead will get you far, at least on a novice level, as long as you are able to see everything that is happening on the board. This includes both your own tactical options, as well as any potential plays by your opponent. In the light of this, I'm introducing a new exercise for teams to do when it's not their turn: Try to find the best move your opponent has to your last move, and try to figure out what your best response is to that move! So, black: What do you think is your opponents' best move, and what is your best response to that move?
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Sep 13, 2017 19:48
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Without looking at the wiki page, I'd say it's either d2-d4 or b2-b4 which puts pressure on both the center of the board and on the c5 pawn. both allow White to move the black-square bishop out, but d2-d4 also allows White more movement with the queen, while the pawn that moved out will also be protected by the queen. As for the response, it's either d7-d6 or b7-b6, but I think d7-d6 leaves more space to develop our bishop. Even if it leaves the king open to an early (useless) check by the white-square bishop.
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Sep 13, 2017 20:04
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To answer Covski's challenge, I'm thinking if I were white in this situation, I'd try to develop the center even more, since the Sicilian opening seems to concede the center initially. d2-d4 is out since we have c5, so maybe they'll press their advantage by Ng1-f3 or Nb1-c3. That would deny us either d5 or e5 and allow them control of those middle 4 squares. Not sure what Black's best response would be. I'll have to get back on that one.
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Sep 14, 2017 01:31
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I'd say Nb1-Nc3 for white. Knights are important to develop in the early game, and it seals off d5 as well as protecting e-pawn from anything unexpected. And our response would be d7-d6, starting to leave some squares for our bishop and moving towards the center. I'm not sure about this, but here you go 
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Sep 14, 2017 11:23
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HardDiskD posted:As for the response, it's either d7-d6 or b7-b6, but I think d7-d6 leaves more space to develop our bishop. Even if it leaves the king open to an early (useless) check by the white-square bishop. I'm not so sure that such a check would be useless. Maybe not as a third move, but it would force us to respond, potentially hindering our plans and our development. Not a huge threat, but something we have to keep an eye on. As for the question posed by covski, I feel that white's best move is ng1-nf3. They reinforce the center and start developing kingside. A good answer to that would then be b7-b6, to support our advanced pawn and start posing the basis for the development of the white squared bishop. On the mid-long term, it means that we can't castle short, but that was a given from the first move.
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Sep 14, 2017 12:12
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I'm not sure if it is the best move but I would probably move their knight Ng1 to Nf3 because knights seem like they can be versatile pieces at the beginning of the game, if you place the correctly. As to what we should do in response, we can press the centre with d7 - d6 without too much fuss and at least open up some of our other pieces.
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Sep 14, 2017 15:58
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LupusAter posted:I'm not so sure that such a check would be useless. Maybe not as a third move, but it would force us to respond, potentially hindering our plans and our development. Not a huge threat, but something we have to keep an eye on. I said useless because in that situation we could have three options for unchecking the king, but I guess that will make us lose a tempo, right?
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Sep 14, 2017 16:05
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You always want to get out of check with as forcing a move as possible - if you for example can block an early check by moving up a piece or pawn to a square where you were intending it to go anyway, no loss of tempo is suffered. If you can block the check in such a way that you attack the checking piece or another undefended piece, for example via discovery (when you move a piece out of the way to allow another piece to attack something), it is quite possible that the original attacker is the one who loses a tempo when they have to retreat their checking piece or protect something elsewhere on the board. Although checking just for the sake of checking is tempting, you should always have a clear plan in mind as for what you gain from it and be aware of how your opponent can respond.
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Sep 14, 2017 16:35
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oldskool posted:
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Sep 14, 2017 16:59
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 You have 24 hours to decide on a move. In light of oldskool's revelation that notation can be imported into Lichess, I'll be reverting to using short algebraic notations for the updates. Please continue using long notation when discussing moves though!
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Sep 14, 2017 20:11
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Nb8-c6 to prepare for an eventual d2-d4?
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Sep 14, 2017 21:00
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 This came up a bit in the other thread, but I figure this is a good thing for everyone to keep in mind.Dr. Fetus posted:Remember that everyone is new here. Don't be afraid to be wrong or speak out if you're lost.
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Sep 14, 2017 21:24
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Huh, so White did move according to what we were discussing earlier. Does that mean we guessed right as to their best move? The common replies by the others above suggest d7-d6 as our best response, which makes sense to me - allows us to still contest the middle later on if we elect to go e7-e5, and frees up our white-square bishop for future shenanigans. I was a little paranoid at first about White going Bf1-b5 next turn to put us in check, but it seems that is easily stopped by Nb8-c6/d7 or Bc8-d7. An exchange this early doesn't seem to put us in any major disadvantage.
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Sep 15, 2017 00:12
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According to Wikipedia article on Sicilian, Nb1-Nf3 is the most popular second move and d7-d6 is our most popular response, so I guess we are playing by the book. Not that that's bad. According to the same article, it lets us prepare Ng8-Nf6, which sounds like an excellent move to me -- not only we develop our knight; it already contests e4 and d5. I don't see any reason to be original here. In the meantime I'll try to read up on Sicilian in general, but for now, I agree to play d7-d6.
Flame fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 06:46
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Flame posted:According to Wikipedia article on Sicilian, Nb1-Nf3 is the most popular second move and d7-d6 is our most popular response, so I guess we are playing by the book. Not that that's bad. According to the same article, it lets us prepare Ng8-Nf6, which sounds like an excellent move to me -- not only we develop our knight; it already contests e4 and d5. I don't see any reason to be original here. In the meantime I'll try to read up on Sicilian in general, but for now, I agree to play d7-d6. Yeah, there's plenty of time for the game to devolve into a chaotic mess of decisions. I liked b7-b6, but the added pressure on the center makes me switch to d7-d6.
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Sep 15, 2017 16:18
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Yeah, not seeing a reason to not play by the book just yet. d7-d6
Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Sep 15, 2017 |
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Sep 15, 2017 21:18
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 White has 24 hours to decide on a move. What do you think is the opponent's best move, and what is your best counter to that move?
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Sep 15, 2017 21:43
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From glancing at the wiki, assuming White continues with the common variations, their two likely options would be d2-d4 or Bf1-b5+. In case of d2-d4, I'm thinking we're practically forced to initiate the pawn exchange of c5xd4 because if we do anything else, they can go d4xc5 and our d6 pawn can't capture in return without exposing the Queens to each other. If they go Bf1-b5+, I'm liking Nb8-c6 since it's protected by the b7 pawn and in turn prevents White from going d2-d4 later. Bc8-d7 stops the check and threatens the White bishop, but the Knight move seems more proactive to me in contesting the center.
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Sep 16, 2017 01:11
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Update will come tomorrow, hope you are enjoying your weekend!
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Sep 16, 2017 21:01
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 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.Bb5+ You are in check! You have 24 hours to decide on a move. Sorry about the late update - I can't promise I'll always be able to update on schedule during the weekends, but I'll do my best! On a similar note - I've been noticing a number of players haven't been posting regularly lately. I hope this is because you are busy with more important things than playing chess on the internet (which is totally fine!) and not because you feel you have nothing to add or don't understand what's going on. If it's the latter, speak up and we'll do our best to help you out!
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Sep 17, 2017 17:15
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Reminder: Being in check means that you have to get out of check this move, all other moves are illegal. You can get out of check by blocking the check with another piece, by moving the king out of the way (not applicable in this position) or by capturing the checking piece. (also not applicable in this position)
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Sep 17, 2017 17:19
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idhrendur posted:
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Sep 17, 2017 17:46
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Nb8-c6. Probably our best move, as it blocks the check, the knight will be protected by the b pawn and it sets up the knight to cover the middle.
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Sep 17, 2017 17:47
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Ibblebibble posted:Nb8-c6. Probably our best move, as it blocks the check, the knight will be protected by the b pawn and it sets up the knight to cover the middle. yeah I was gonna say the same thing so Nb8-c6
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Sep 17, 2017 17:52
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Yeah, the alternative is moving the bishop or the queen and risking a trade it seems? I'll go for Nb8-c6 too.
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Sep 17, 2017 18:51
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Nb8-c6. for all the above reasons
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Sep 17, 2017 19:04
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I am on board with the Knight plan, but before I cast my vote, what about we do Bc8-c7 instead? It doesn't develop the board much, granted, but if they don't want to lose their bishop, they will have to retreat it.
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Sep 17, 2017 20:04
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HardDiskD posted:I am on board with the Knight plan, but before I cast my vote, what about we do Bc8-c7 instead? It doesn't develop the board much, granted, but if they don't want to lose their bishop, they will have to retreat it. I assume you're referring to Bc8-d7 to stop the check. Not necessarily. They can try something like c2-c4 to protect their bishop and pin our bishop to d7. That would force us to play further moves to shore up that area, like a7-a6 to threaten the bishop further or Nb8-c6 anyway to block off the threat to the king even more. If we're going to get the knight out anyway, might as well do it now and contest the middle further. Voting for Nb8-c6. E: vv good catch, yeah that would also have the same effect as c2-c4 anakha fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Sep 17, 2017 |
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Sep 17, 2017 20:48
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They can also do Nb1-c3 to develop the knight while also defending their bishop right?
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Sep 17, 2017 21:11
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Sorry I haven't been contributing much, been too distracted lately. Anyway, yeah I agree using the knight to block the bishop is our best bet.
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Sep 17, 2017 21:43
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Sorry, busy weekend, I had no time to analyze anything. Everything's going as we predicted, it seems? I'm with everyone, let's move that Knight. Nb8-c6. If they choose to follow with Nb1-c3, should we go a7-a6? It doesn't do much, but at least we develop a piece, and they have to lose tempo by moving their bishop. I'm also considering moving another Knight next turn, but for now, let's see how things play out.
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Sep 17, 2017 21:47
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No need to apologise for not being able to post every turn, just wanted to make sure people weren't staying silent due to not being able to follow the discussion Another point about learning to chess: Chess is both a very hard game to learn just by playing as well as just by reading. My suggestion would be to put the ideas covered during this thread to use by playing as much as possible, preferably against human players (though an AI will do fine in a pinch) - even if you lose you can learn a lot as long as you have some theoretical understanding of why you lost and what you can do better. Hopefully this thread can provide the theoretical base, which let's you get an understanding of practical play and vice versa: Playing will help you internalise all the words, which will help you play better, which will help you internalise all the words and so on. I'm totally willing to give a few pointers if any of you want to play me via Chess by Post (as outlined in the OP- I'm "covski" on the app as well) As a side note: When suggesting moves, I'd suggest you also spend a little time discussing the pros and cons of the second best alternative to your favoured move - not only in order to perform better in this particular game, but also as a good learning exercise!
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Sep 17, 2017 22:15
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Nb8-c6 Helps moves the knight into play, and it's protected by a pawn so they can't take it for free. As for second best move... Bc8-d7. it blocks the check, but pins the bishop in a not useful spot till the white bishop is moved away. this applies to the knight as well, but it's still in a better spot the the bishop would be.. As for follow-ups, I have no idea, personally.
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Sep 17, 2017 22:56
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You know, I'm thinking Nb8-c6 is the best move; I would have said Nb8-d7; it'd do the job of keeping the king unchecked, but it wouldn't put the pressure on the center that we would like.
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Sep 17, 2017 22:57
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Nb8-c6. Luckily for us, they jumped the gun a little bit and checked our king when we can still develop by protecting him. And yeah, the second best move is nb8-d7, since it offers a subpar pressure on the center. Blocking with the queen is out of the question, and blocking with our bishop puts us in an awkward position if they protect their bishop.
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Sep 18, 2017 00:11
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Another thing I've thought of. They can try castling next round and we basically have a free move. What if we try Bc8-g4 and pin their Knight? Then we can safely go e7-e5. Any suggestions? edit: They can a2-a3 and force us to either leave or take their Knight. Hm. Guess we shouldn't try and copy their tactics
Flame fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Sep 18, 2017 |
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Sep 18, 2017 14:22
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Nb8-c6
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Sep 18, 2017 14:41
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While waiting for our move to be confirmed, I was studying the Wiki page on the Sicilian defense and saw the link to Garry Kasparov playing White against a mob of posters voting on Black's moves.. From what I'm reading, the Black drama made Herp and fish's Black team in the previous game look like a lovefest in comparison.
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Sep 18, 2017 14:44
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