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Rodyle posted:Expansionwise, I think the idea of just kind of taking Italy and then walling up really is probably the most novel way to go in the end. Maybe we could reach out a bit more to meet the basic requirements for the Holy See but even that is questionable. I think securing the former Exarchate of Ravenna/Donation of Pepin should be the first priority, since de jure it does belong to us. Beyond that, the Western Empire also technically belongs to us because forensics is still bad, although my preference would be to seize important bishoprics so that we can Avignon ourselves out of Rome if we ever need to.
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Sep 22, 2017 17:13
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Great to see the Pope cut loose, time to get Old Testament on these fools 
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Sep 22, 2017 17:36
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While you can't play as the Pope in vanilla, I had fun playing as the sole feudal vassal he has at certain start dates. You can never acquire a kingdom, and any dukes you create slide over to the Pope's direct control, but you can still mash His Holiness's enemies to paste and write "The Papacy" all over the map. And if anyone attacks you the Pope will magic up a jillion mercenaries to fend them off.
megane fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 18:25
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idhrendur posted:Pope Alexander II did good work. Sure, the Muslims are retaking North Africa, but clearly that was because the Pope wasn't personally fighting.
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Sep 22, 2017 19:00
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4 - 1088 - 1092 The Coming Storm It is the year of our lord 1088 and we have just been elected Pope Benedictus X, formerly the bishop of Narni, a church here in Papal Italia. Our predecessor was a great man - strange, yes - but great none the less and we aim to live up to the standard he set. Charitable, temperate, zealous and honest. Not quite the paragon of virtue Alexander II was, but then again trying to emulate him in every way may have adverse affects.  Italy has no outside threats for the time being and now once-good pious Christian lords set upon each in their pointless feudal bickering.  King Robert of Sicily is dead - succeeded by his son Roger, a deformed lazy hunchback of a man who has no time for us or matters of the church it would seem. He has been drawn into numerous wars in the Balkans,  Duke Gisulf II of Salerno is dead - succeeded by his daughter Vadamerca - strong, ambitious, resourceful... endlessly cruel, quick to anger. She currently wages war against the Italian republics. She married to the King of Croatia, her children will draw the lands of Salerno into the hands of the Croats and King Roger will almost certainly have something to say about that.  Doge Tedice is dead - succeeded by Doge Gentile 'The Wolf', a proud greedy pig of a man who exploits his people and seeks nothing but more ways to get rich. Were any of these "rulers" alive when Alexander II was trying to drive the infidel from our lands I dare say we'd all be praying towards Mecca by now.  Further North in Europe and the Kaiser and the French continue their endless back-and-forth wars over border provinces. King Harold Godwin of England successfully repelled the Norwegian invasion sending Harald Hardrada home with his tail between his legs before riding self and slaying William the Bastard of Normandy on the fields of Hastings and securing permanent Anglo-Saxon rule over the British Isles. But now the northern earls demand more power for their part in the conflict and civil war plagues the island.  In the east and the Byzantines repelled the Seljuk invasion and even managed to press on into the lands of Armenia. The Seljuks seemingly coming up against a brick wall with the Basileus now instead decide to begin advancing in the other direction, retaking the ancestral homelands of the Turkish rulers of Perisa. This recent spite of invasions to the east has in turn caused the Ghaznavids of the Afghanistan Sultanate to begin incursions into the strange and ill-known lands of the Hindus. The Shia caliph meanwhile secures his hold on the key provinces of the Levant and Arabia.  First order of business - a shake up of the current council is required. Mayor Gian is demoted to a simple advisor after his failure at tackling the crime in Rome. Meanwhile the former steward Count Giacopo who was found to be lacking in his duties instead resorted to venturing off with the Papal Army, campaigning across Sardinia and North Africa, luck would have it he has a knack for leadership, he would make a far finer marshal. Adelfo - our predecessor's strange court physician spent much of his life at the Mad Pope's side, he learnt much from him and is now more learned in scholarly matters than most - though we do not like much personally - we make him our court chaplain. A local baron is made the new steward, a prominent diplomat living in Rome is made our new chancellor and a Jew who had previously served in our predecessor's spy rings ensures us he is the most fitting for leading our own spy networks, we will see - for now.  The Mad Pope's armies spent so long on the isle of Sardinia, fighting back and forth along it's shores, garrisoning in it's towns and defending the whole isle from the Berbers that the northern half is practically Papal land at this point - the local count agrees, and a more formal arrangement is devised.  While Italy may now be free of the Sunni scourge another former Christian realm still bucks under the strain of constant holy war and heathenry - Iberia. If we are to aid the Castilians, the Catalans and Portuguese against the remnants of the once far-reaching Umayyads then we need a good base to launch our wars against the infidel - Mallorca is perfect.   Our troops are swift, precise and efficient. The local Emir is broken before he even knows what hit him, what's more local Christians living under Sunni tyranny for centuries finally rise up upon our forces landing.    The invasion is over so quickly no other emir or sultan could raise their banners in time to come to Mallorca's aid. Our gateway into Iberia is secure, the lord's work can continue.  In order to better administrate these new lands personally we enact new laws in the Papacy allowing us greater power at the expense of less delegated responsibilities for our vassals. The Papal treasury has filled substantially in the previous wars, no major wars or famine have marked our lands and we must make improvements if we wish to keep making more gold and protect what we have.    Vast trade networks criss-cross across the continent and stretch out into lands unknown, bringing foreign and exotic goods as well as necessities, one of the main arteries of this trade network passes through Italia - and Rome itself. Improving this will ensure Rome always has a steady income and ample supplies for any future conflict.   The expulsion of the Sunni settlers and migrants from south Italy and the various republic's incursions into North Africa has sent ripples through the Muslim world, sultans and emirs far and wide bolster themselves against the possibility of Christian invasion. While all previous conflict against the infidel has been against the Sunni branch the Shia know it is only a matter of time until they are targeted, in response they have begun setting up holy orders to better protect themselves - they are afraid.  And we will give them reason to be afraid. The age of "crusades" is upon us. Sicily was just a dry-run, we now know the Christian realms have the capability to strike back at the infidel after centuries of letting them push further and further into Europe. All we need is a target and tens of thousands of the faithful will march with us.  _________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________________ To the esteemed councilors, cardinals and war advisors of His Holiness Pope Benedictus X. The Pope has bestowed upon you the honour and responsibility of dictating where the righteous forces of Christ shall be sent. Once a consensus has been reached or votes for one of the options greatly outweighs the others messengers will be sent forth at once to all the Catholic lords of Europe. Marshal Count Giacopo of Orvieto  The Holy Land! How is this even up for debate?! I have fought the infidel for most of my life and if we are to make a lasting effect with this crusade then we must strike at the very heart of the Muslim world. We must retake the holiest place on Earth, crush the caliph's army and divide the realm of the Fatimids so we can push further until their kind has been eradicated! The caliph may outnumber us greatly but if you make the call then all of Christendom will march with us. Jerusalem must be ours! God wills it! Court Chaplain Guibert da Correggio  True that the holy land is indeed a significant target that one day we must take and I agree that striking at the Shia caliph with the full might of Christ's servants will surely go far to ensure we win out eventually over the encroaching Muslim threat but consider this instead - the neighbouring kingdom of Egypt (also under the Caliph's control and indeed the seat of his power) still houses many Christians. Coptics though they may be, they still are followers of Christ and every day they cry out for freedom from the tyranny of their Shia overlords. We cannot stand by while they suffer. Steward Baron Tommaso of Pitigliano  We must exercise caution, overextending our reach will surely leave us open to renewed attacks and invasions by the Berbers, we have already fought them these past three decades, we must finish what we started and continue expanding Christ's influence into North Africa. The Almoravids in Mauritania are the major power in the Western Mediterranean, if we break the Berber's back here we can ensure the downfall of Africa and open up these lands for Christian resettlement and trade. Chancellor Mariano de Lacon Gunale  While da Corregio is correct that we must protect our brethren in need what use is there in saving these borderline heretics in the Levant when there are full blooded Catholics who need our help. We helped secure our homeland now the Spaniards need our help securing their's, they will be indebted to us and what's more we can properly stem the incursions into mainland Europe. If we attack Andalusia in the south of Iberia we can cut off the rest of the Muslim emirs and close in from both sides with the Spanish lords from the north. 
Crisis Now fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 22, 2017 |
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Sep 22, 2017 21:10
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I support Chancellor Mariano de Lacon Gunale and his bid to crusade Andalusia. We need to drive the Muslims back if we want any chance to take them out; let's cut off this pocket while we still can. EDIT: Also, isn't it a little too early for Two Sicilies?
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Sep 22, 2017 21:23
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Andalusia first. That way the Christian armies won't be flanked by any allies the Muslims will bring
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Sep 22, 2017 21:31
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It's not a real crusade if it's not against Jerusalem
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Sep 22, 2017 21:32
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I, David, of the line of Technowolf, do hereby support a crusade into Andalusia.
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Sep 22, 2017 21:43
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Jerusalem is nice but Andalusia is the more pressing concern. If we win a crusade there and get a Catholic King of Andalusia that should go a long way towards retaking the whole peninsula.
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Sep 22, 2017 21:57
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Jerusalem. That is the only way to settle the argument of who is the true representative of the Church on Earth - Rome or Constantinople. So far we've been mere bishops of one of the Roman provinces, it is time to recover the Holy Lands and erase all doubt that we are truly favored by God among our equals.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:06
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Byzantium!  That said, let's get the Holy Land while we still have the time! Leave Andalusia for the Iberians, if they fail to retake it on their own they only prove how worthy they actually are of those lands.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:14
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Jerusalem We can always go save Iberia later if they need it.
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Sep 22, 2017 22:14
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Jerusalem! God wills it!
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Sep 22, 2017 22:54
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:I support Chancellor Mariano de Lacon Gunale and his bid to crusade Andalusia. We need to drive the Muslims back if we want any chance to take them out; let's cut off this pocket while we still can. I'm afraid I must concur. Let us liberate Andalusia.
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Sep 22, 2017 23:21
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Jerusalem is a meat grinder, Egypt is surrounded by hostile powers and would require constant aid, and Mauritania isn't a crucial target. Go for Andalusia.
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Sep 22, 2017 23:36
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Egypt! If we tear the heart out of the Shia Caliphate, the Middle Eastern powers will lose themselves in endless war, allowing us to take Jerusalem at our leisure!
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Sep 22, 2017 23:40
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Egypt is probably biting off more than we can chew, and Jerusalem would be tricky to defend. Mauritania can wait, our brethren in Hispania cannot. I say Andalusia.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:16
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Andalusia because it is fun to say.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:33
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Andalusia! DEUS VULT!
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Sep 23, 2017 00:37
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Let's get this Reconquista finished up 400 years early
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Sep 23, 2017 00:53
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Andalusia.
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Sep 23, 2017 00:55
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Egypt! If we tear the heart out of the Shia Caliphate, the Middle Eastern powers will lose themselves in endless war, allowing us to take Jerusalem at our leisure! Egypt yeah there's already an Andalusia thread!
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Sep 23, 2017 03:28
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Rodyle posted:Egypt yeah We're not going to be keeping any territory (besides the Baleares), presumably. Point of the thread is to help our fellow Catholics in need. Only one of these Crusade options that fits that goal is Spain.
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Sep 23, 2017 04:01
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I feel we should go for the middle option, and for Mauretania. Not only is it within easy reach of our own armies and allies, it would cut off support for Andalusia, letting the local Christians solve it by themselves. After that, Africa would fall, then we would have time to look at either Egypt or Jerusalem. ... though I always have in my heart a comedy vote for some further off Kingdoms... Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Sep 23, 2017 |
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Sep 23, 2017 04:26
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Egypt! If we tear the heart out of the Shia Caliphate, the Middle Eastern powers will lose themselves in endless war, allowing us to take Jerusalem at our leisure! Egypt! Secure the riches of the Nile for Christendom and divide the lands of the Muslims in twain!
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Sep 23, 2017 04:39
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Jerusalem this royal city, however, situated at the center of the earth, is now held captive by the enemies of Christ and is subjected, by those who do not know God, to the worship the heathen. She seeks, therefore, and desires to be liberated and ceases not to implore you to come to her aid.
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Sep 23, 2017 04:47
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Rodyle posted:there's already an Andalusia thread! Which is why this kingdom must go. Highlander style; there can only be one.
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Sep 23, 2017 06:18
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The true strategist knows not to extend their grasp. We must consolidate Christian power in Andalusia before we can hope to strike outwards.
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Sep 23, 2017 07:14
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Jerusalem. Here's my twisted logic: Andalusia would only be taking land from one Emir, meaning it will end up surrounded on all sides by 4 hostile Muslims. Each different emirate with a border can declare war at will, and even if you defeat one of them, that only means holding off a single ruler for 10 or so years, so the tiny christian Andalusia could suffer death by attrition. On the other hand, Jerusalem is completely enclosed by the Shia Caliph. Beating them in the crusade will secure the borders entirely for the first peace treaty, and then each time they attack, you can pour the whole of your papal funds into defending them against the sole threat without worry about any other threat. Also, Jerusalem is a lot more important to the catholic faith than a piece of Spain.
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Sep 23, 2017 09:53
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5 - 1092 - 1093 The First Crusade After overhearing many arguments and proposals from our advisors we reach a consensus - we have liberated Italia, now we must liberate Iberia. With the Spanish no longer trying to fend off the Umayyad remnants they will be free to join us in the eventual war against the Shia, a stronger united Catholic Europe is needed before taking on the Caliph.  The Emir of Seville is a wicked man, even for a Muslim. Unable to resist the pleasures of the flesh, the man has three wives, two additional lovers (that are known.), God only knows how many of his bastard children may be roaming southern Iberia. It would please the almighty greatly to see this sinner and infidel removed from power. And six lords of Europe agree, responding to our call for arms and setting sail at once for Seville, haling from Ireland, Wales, Brittany and Normandy.   King Tadg II of Connachta is already on the shores of Algarve by time the Papal fleet reaches the Atlantic, Countess Bertissa of Broerec rendezvous with our forces before both docking at harbours already captured by the Irish petty king.   Luck would have it we declared this crusade while much of the Sunni realms in the Mediterranean were in turmoil, facing uprisings and civil war, not one emir or sultan comes to Seville's aid. Knowing he is alone, outnumbered and almost certain to lose this conflict Emir Rashid directs his army straight at us, seemingly refusing to go down without a fight.   Our's and King Tagd's armies already outnumbered his alone, and the battle was already going in our favour but the arrival of Welsh troops firmly secured victory and the Emir is forced to fall back deeper into Iberia to recover.   With Rashid's army dealt with for the time being we send our message for all the friendly forces in Iberia to converge on the city of Seville itself, our huge numbers advantage allowing us to quickly break the defenses and taking many strategic forts and holdings surrounding the Emir's capital.  With Seville under crusader control the Emir's army is sighted across the border in Cordoba - the former seat of the Umayyad caliphs, winning a victory here would send a clear signal to the infidel that their incursion into Europe is finally at an end. We order the crusader army across the border at once to re-engage the Emir's forces. The Emir of Cordoba surely greatly displeased by this violation of his borders - his opinion matters little, he will soon end up like Rashid.  Emir Rashid's army stands little chance against a force ten times larger than this own and victory is quickly secured - and with his capital under our control and no where left to retreat the emir is faced with no choice but to surrender.   The quick and mostly uneventful but no-less significant crusade is won and southern Iberia is liberated from Sunni hands. The remaining emirates in Iberia are now cut off from their Berber allies in North Africa, and the recent seizing of Mallorca ensures the Papal fleet and other friendly forces can put pressure on Muslim trade in the Western Mediterranean and stem the possibility of aid in the form of supplies and troops from across the sea. The ultimate fate of Papal Andalusia will have to be decided when all of Spain is free. There is much work to be done. 
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Sep 23, 2017 12:36
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I suppose there is another novel option available should we eschew pretty borders entirely and simply become a patchwork of random holdings across the Med.
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Sep 23, 2017 13:39
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Rodyle posted:I suppose there is another novel option available should we eschew pretty borders entirely and simply become a patchwork of random holdings across the Med. I support the Gritty Borders faction.
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Sep 23, 2017 13:49
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I didn't know the pope could get the crusade land, I assumed if he was the highest contributor it would just go to #2.
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Sep 23, 2017 13:52
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Zakrelo posted:I didn't know the pope could get the crusade land, I assumed if he was the highest contributor it would just go to #2. I'm guessing the mod changed that, because in the game basically papal contributions are practically zero regardless of actual contributions.
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Sep 23, 2017 14:47
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Zakrelo posted:I didn't know the pope could get the crusade land, I assumed if he was the highest contributor it would just go to #2. I've certainly seen the Pope win land from being the highest contributor in crusades (in normal games). In fact I'm fairly sure if you win the crusade for Jerusalem you have an option to give the land to the Pope in an event?
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Sep 23, 2017 15:02
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Generally speaking a Christian ruler can always give the Pope land whenever in addition.
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Sep 23, 2017 15:29
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Patchwork of Papal Lands all across the map. Papal lands in Europe. Papal lands in Asia. Papal lands in Africa. Papal lands in New World! Papal lands in Australia, for those who wish to truly repent. Papal lands in Antarctida!!!
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Sep 23, 2017 17:39
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Crisis Now posted:The Emir of Seville is a wicked man, even for a Muslim. Unable to resist the pleasures of the flesh, the man has three wives, two additional lovers (that are known.), God only knows how many of his bastard children may be roaming southern Iberia. It would please the almighty greatly to see this sinner and infidel removed from power. And six lords of Europe agree, responding to our call for arms and setting sail at once for Seville, haling from Ireland, Wales, Brittany and Normandy. Lustful, and tolerant to other Abrahamic faiths? Dude got around. 
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Sep 23, 2017 20:26
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Zakrelo posted:I didn't know the pope could get the crusade land, I assumed if he was the highest contributor it would just go to #2. Deceitful Penguin posted:I'm guessing the mod changed that, because in the game basically papal contributions are practically zero regardless of actual contributions. ajkalan posted:I support the Gritty Borders faction.
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Sep 23, 2017 21:08
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