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assuming this is real, what the hell is the hrc doing? https://twitter.com/jackallisonLOL/status/913426492348014592 Condiv fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Sep 28, 2017 |
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Sep 28, 2017 18:47
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Trabisnikof posted:If Bernie is the best we can do in 2020 we are so hosed. i dunno. bernie/ellison would be a really good ticket
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Sep 28, 2017 21:09
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Majorian posted:He'd probably beat Trump pretty handily. not yet there aren't
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Sep 28, 2017 21:14
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https://mobile.twitter.com/grandoftwo/status/913628551043325952?ref_src=tw Why does bernie not having an elitist past piss certain types of liberals off so much? Do these liberals actually despise people who don't live absolutely perfect lives?
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Sep 30, 2017 13:32
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I mean, I would think that the ultimate goal of the kinds of aid programs bernie lived off of was to make sure that we don't doom people to poor lives and inability to contribute to society just because they're not currently ideal members of society I would think that the fact that a deadbeat drifter could end up becoming one of the most liked politicians in the US and advance causes like singlepayer should be a point in favor of the systems that let him become an outstanding american citizen
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Sep 30, 2017 13:37
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Ogmius815 posted:"Not an elitist past" is kind of a weird thing to say about the guy who attended college at Chicago. But whatever. not elite enough, since he was a drifter for a period (which apparently is very bad)
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Sep 30, 2017 18:45
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bernie spiders quote:
berniesandersi would've won
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Sep 30, 2017 23:12
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yronic heroism posted:Not particularly. Any committed idealogues or just plain opportunist say what they are doing is defensive. Bush admin claimed it in a Iraq. Alt right claims it. Antifa claims the same for that matter regardless of whether you see them as good or bad. this is p easy yronic. Iraq was not a threat, so there was no defensive action on the us's part The people nazis target are not a threat, so nazis are not defending themselves Nazis are actually a threat, as they wish for genocide and mass murder, so antifa are defending others
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Oct 3, 2017 13:31
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yronic heroism posted:People who supported the Iraq war said it was a direct threat though and/or said they were defending others from Saddam. And they were sure to point to Nazi-like traits of the Baathists. and they were lying. and anyone with half a brain knew they were lying do you think antifa are lying about nazis being a threat?
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Oct 3, 2017 20:35
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yronic heroism posted:You are the one talking about defense of others. Saddam never threatened anyone in Iraq? are you seriously going to start arguing in favor of the iraq war to salvage your argument? 
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Oct 3, 2017 20:59
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yronic heroism posted:You're the one implying the type of argument is a good one. Then you try to get around the implications by saying "well actually everyone was lying about Iraq because no one ever believed a bad thing was good because of their ideology." nah, my argument lines up with what other people were saying. just cause bush said the iraq war was defensive doesn't mean it was. just cause jefferson clay said vietnam was defending capitalism, doesn't mean it was. on the other hand, antifa is actually literally defending people. like when they protected nonviolent clergy protestors from nazis who were trying to brutalize them you apparently think there's no difference between defense and aggression other than semantics, and it's a really dumb point of view that has you arguing republican talking points
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Oct 3, 2017 21:16
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yronic heroism posted:Don't be obtuse. Of course keeping them from beating up protesters is clear-cut defense. Otoh stuff like punching Richard Spencer at an interview is argued to be an act of preemption. Preemption, as Sarah Palin can't tell you, is at the core of the Bush doctrine as well. ah, you're crying tears for richard spencer, a man who has argued the following: a nazi posted:‘Does human civilization actually need the Black race?’ ‘Is Black genocide right?’ and, if it is, ‘What would be the best and easiest way to dispose of them?’ antifa's actions against richard spencer are defense because we've all seen what happened the last time nazis got power, and those brave antifa brawlers are doing their damnedest to keep history from repeating itself. but please, do cry some more tears about the needless aggression of antifa against poor richard spencer
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Oct 3, 2017 21:42
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yronic heroism posted:I never said preemption was always needless, just that it's actually a universally held belief (except among some pacifists). Liberals do it, conservatives do it, even antifa does it. and i already said that the preemption is justified cause there's a legitimate threat in the case with nazis that there wasn't in the case of iraq Condiv posted:this is p easy yronic. keep trying to pretend they're the same though yronic
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Oct 3, 2017 22:07
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yronic heroism posted:So do you deny the Kurdish genocide? you're really doing it, you're arguing in favor of the iraq war
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Oct 3, 2017 22:15
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yronic heroism posted:No, this is simply turning your own fallacious argument style against you for sarcastic effect. Good gravy you are a dumb motherfucker. i argue in favor of things and people i support meanwhile you're undermining yourself by trying to pretend the iraq war and the actions of antifa are p much the same thing. it's p sad yronic heroism posted:And liberals, and some non-tankie leftists for that matter, generally believe Stalinists killed a hell of a lot of innocent people, so the question of containment was one of tactics. yes, the vietnam war was the best way to prevent a hell of a lot of people from being killed ditto installing saddam hussein 
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Oct 3, 2017 22:27
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yronic heroism posted:Sounds like you support those things since sarcasm is not a thing anymore. this is just sad yronic
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Oct 3, 2017 22:51
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yronic heroism posted:What's sad is you dodging questions you don't want to answer. gwb didn't invade iraq to protect kurds, or anyone. that wasn't his initial rationale for invading either (it was WMDs). love that you keep trying to defend the iraq war to back up your argument though again, really sad yronic stone cold posted:punching nazis isn't preemption, it's reaction to political violence through genocidal rhetoric stone cold posted:it's also extremely good to do 
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Oct 4, 2017 00:53
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yronic heroism posted:Nah I'm just comparing other totalitarian murderous regimes to Nazi Germany. It's a thing, talk to a political scientist. Nice try though. i'm not bothering with your dumb question cause you're trying to pivot out of your own dumb argument into another one you think will go better for you sorry, but i'm not gonna help you shift goalposts yronic 
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Oct 4, 2017 01:07
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yronic heroism posted:Condiv wants to whitewash the Kurdish genocide, got it. this is really sad even for you yronic
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Oct 4, 2017 01:10
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yronic heroism posted:He won't acknowledge the Kurdish genocide when asked for the simple reason he'd have to say "actually the simplistic analysis I used earlier is incomplete because I want to paint myself as a crusader against genocide and don't want to admit sometimes I will not support using force against a genocidal authoritarian." i'm sorry i don't support the iraq war like you do yronic 
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Oct 4, 2017 01:39
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yronic heroism posted:Google @bendtheknee69neoliberaldinguses to make sure they're not a current affairs writer, got it. a post that sucked so much you had to make it twice
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Oct 5, 2017 00:04
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Nevvy Z posted:God forbid we give prisoners valuable work experience while they pay their debt to society. loving
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Oct 5, 2017 15:54
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the people who make use of prison labor are way more willing to hire current prisoners than they ever are to hire ex-cons. california's prison fire brigades make the "valuable work experience!!" excuse too, and then refuse to hire ex-cons as firefighters
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Oct 5, 2017 15:56
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:The problem is that firefighters don't get paid well enough, the risk is really high, and the state doesn't ever increase their budgets despite the severe increase in fires year over year. quote:Most of the prisoners that get to work fire detail are not high risk people. most are in for drug crimes, theft, or other non violent acts. The program is not mandatory and every prisoner wants to be there. here's the problem. right here. california has way more people in jail than deserve to be in jail, and they keep people in jail because they need free labor. they have literally resisted releasing prisoners on the basis that it would hurt their labor pool. yes, this program has value, but it only has value for california. these people sent to jail could get better, higher paying jobs if they were not made into felons in the first place. and justice systems around the country are specifically designed to funnel people into jail for lovely reasons. worse, the california prison brigades are poorly trained and even more poorly paid compared to non-prison firefighters, meaning they are buying a tiny bit of extra freedom at the cost of high risk to their lives. this is a similar situation as the hosed up chicked rehabilitation centers in oklahoma someone posted earlier (except more dangerous!) as for the prisoners wanting to be there, they wanted to be in the governor's mansion too. oddly enough, prisoners want out of prison. and the people you've described probably should not have been in prison in the first place. my problem with prison labor (and what it's becoming) is quite simple really. prison labor was an easy shortcut to bring back slavery for states that wanted it back, and that's why the populations in prisons are heavily minority dependent. and yes, all prison labor is bad, because it provides an incentive for states to imprison people and keep them imprisoned (again, california has literally argued against the court ordered released of non-violent offenders on the grounds it would hurt their ability to staff positions!) Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I don't think it is a good system, and I would rather the budgets for fire departments were tripled or quadrupled in order to high non prisoners, but don't dismiss the value of such a program if it is managed properly. The potential for abuse in prison labor is really high, but it doesnt mean there arent good prison labor jobs out there that actual prisoners would rather do than not. Ideally we wipe out the prisoner population by ending drug crime laws, and make it so critical state jobs are filled by career people who get paid a solid wage. Until then, don't act like all prison labor is slavery. it's never managed properly. and yes, prison labor is slavery by another name. guess what the former slave states started doing when slavery was banned in the US? Condiv fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 5, 2017 16:46
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I think service industry needs to get comfortable with rehabilitation programs and ex-con labor. It doesn't have to be manufacturing jobs. I've seen good people get passed over for tech jobs simply because they had a record. poo poo needs to stop. all industries should be comfortable with hiring those who've been released from prison. period. it's entirely hosed up that we allow employers to discriminate against people with a record, since the inability to find a job often leads to recidivism
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Oct 5, 2017 16:48
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:
i'm honestly surprised by that because it's completely against the norm. and yet at the same time it almost certainly has more to do with california being desperate to not pay more for fighting fires than any high-minded acceptance of ex-cons. still, i'm glad there's at least one job an ex-con has a decent shot at. on the other hand, said ex-cons should've never been convicts in the first place
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Oct 5, 2017 17:01
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Majorian posted:Well, you admitted to ignoring the article she wrote, for starters. It seems to me he thinks she's just being whiny and it's not actually a problem.
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Oct 5, 2017 18:54
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my response to the last couple of pages
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Oct 5, 2017 21:40
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Nevvy Z posted:You think that was the only thing primary voters cared about? really? they probably cared about black lives matter, which is why it's so upsetting that clinton's cronies decided it was a good idea to distract from blm by trying to attack bernie sanders on sandy hook https://twitter.com/JohnLockesKnife/status/916013990421172225 the ad the clinton campaign wanted desperately to drown out with sandy hook bs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syln8IkOIqc
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Oct 6, 2017 15:36
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i'd also assume that not coddling rapists was p big on the list of women who voted for hillary in the primary, which is why it's so upsetting that her campaign was so entangled with a rapist like weinstein.
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Oct 6, 2017 15:47
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Nevvy Z posted:How is Weinstein emailing the campaign suggesting a thing the same as the campaign doing that thing or being "so entangled" with him? mook met personally with weinstein to discuss this further quote:Mook wrote back replying to Weinstein’s offer to meet up and discuss strategy: “Are you kidding? Let’s do it! I’m here all week. This is all hands on deck–it’s must win! Would tomorrow or Tuesday work?”
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Oct 6, 2017 16:28
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Nevvy Z posted:Did they ever do the really gross thing he suggested? yes quote:During an appearance on MSNBC Wednesday morning, Clinton pointed to a New York Daily News cover criticizing Sanders for saying he did not think victims of a gun crime should be able to sue the manufacturer. His comments came when the newspaper's editorial board asked him about a wrongful death lawsuit against a rifle maker over the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:37
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JeffersonClay posted:Gun control is a black lives matter issue. Black men are 14 times more likely to be killed by gun violence than white men. People of color support gun control 3 to 1. The vast majority do not think gun control is bullshit. and the law hillary was attacking bernie for had minimal impact on gun control also, gun control would not have saved all the black people being killed by police officers edit: it's not only black men being killed and abused by police, it's black women too Condiv fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 16:41
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JeffersonClay posted:How dare the Clinton campaign try to cynically distract from black lives matter by pushing an issue that would disproportionately save black lives and which is supported by large majorities of the black community. And how dare they accurately describe Bernie's mixed record on this issue. it wouldn't have. suing gun manufacturers for the criminal use of their products never really worked even before the law hillary was slagging bernie for even passed. trying to claim that it's a form of gun control is absolutely idiotic considering that it has hardly ever worked, and these suits were being thrown out all through the 90s and 00s leading up to the law hillary was trying to claim made bernie hate the victims of gun violence. how about actual gun control laws? those are much more effective than idiotic nuisance lawsuits that get tossed out constantly cause there's no basis for suing someone for the criminal usage of a product not designed to be used to break the law. oh, bernie would've agreed with those. and hillary was attacking him for saying "i don't think people should be able to sue gun manufacturers because their products were misused by a third party" the only reason it was ever an issue in the primary was to distract from actual issues like blm, police murdering black people en masse. Condiv fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 17:08
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i mean, if you wanted to attack sanders on the PLCAA, i'd wager this would make more sense:quote:For an example of how this plays out, look at Adames v. Beretta. In this case, a 13-year-old boy removed the clip from his father's Beretta handgun, believing that made the gun safe, and then accidentally shot his 13-year-old friend. The victim's family sued Beretta, saying the company could have made the pistol safer and provided more warnings, according to SCOTUSBlog. Citing the PLCAA, the Illinois Supreme Court dismissed Adames' claims, and the U.S. Supreme Court ultimately refused to hear the case. i mean, still dumb, there should never have been a clip in a handgun, with said handgun accessible to children, but that's definitely a more understandable suit than "someone bought your gun and shot people with it in violation of the law, and you're responsible!!" of course, that case doesn't have the weight of a mass shooting, and so would probably not have been as effective in distracting from black lives matter issues than "bernie hates sandy hook victims!!!!"
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Oct 6, 2017 17:23
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yronic heroism posted:So you support the corporate lobbyist-created protection carved out for this one individual industry? Got it, you are a corporate shill. are you still butthurt that i called you out on supporting the iraq war? sad
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Oct 6, 2017 17:29
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yronic heroism posted:Nice dodge of the current discussion where you are stanning for the NRA. i've never done any such thing yronic. nice try
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Oct 6, 2017 17:42
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you making stuff up isn't evidence yronic. as pathetic as usual
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Oct 6, 2017 18:02
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yronic heroism posted:Hmm yes if only there was some sort of news about plaintiffs being screwed by that law you are defending. If only I were defending the law, instead of saying the sandy hook case would've been tossed even before the plcaa. again, sad yronic
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Oct 6, 2017 18:28
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JeffersonClay posted:He's defending the law by arguing the law has had no impact on the proliferation of guns. i didn't say that either jc i said suits like sandy hook are near worthless wrt that Condiv fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Oct 6, 2017 |
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Oct 6, 2017 18:50
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