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Loser_Rex posted:This is not as bad as everyone made it out to be thus far. Have you perhaps noticed a trend of hyperbole in media review yet? I'm not saying this show is super good or anything. I'm saying hyperbole is real.
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Sep 30, 2017 07:12
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I think a lot of the hate for this show comes from A: Scott Buck having a reputation and B: The absolute worst promotional roll out imaginable.
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Sep 30, 2017 07:18
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My main problem with these first episodes is that I don't like any of the characters, and I already strongly dislike a few (mainly the girl with the weirdly dyed hair that is now imprisoned). Also, a problem, Maximus seems like someone who has the right idea (their society and traditions are stupid, retarded and in need of radical changes), but they had to make him creepy and full on evil from get go. So yeah, back to liking noone. Maybe in the next episodes the royal family and friends we are supposed to root for will learn how much of assholes they come across as and work towards improving that.
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Sep 30, 2017 13:54
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Sooo....what happens when Black Bolt sneezes?
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Sep 30, 2017 15:41
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AbstractNapper posted:My main problem with these first episodes is that I don't like any of the characters, and I already strongly dislike a few (mainly the girl with the weirdly dyed hair that is now imprisoned). I don't like Crystal either: "Lockjaw, wake up! WAKE UP! Wake up, Lockjaw! Lockjaw, please! Wake up! Lockjaw, wake up! Wake up, Lockjaw!" At the beginning I was wondering how they were going to introduce Black Bolt and Medusa. And then HELLO.  And I really like Anson Mount as Black Bolt, he carries his intentions very well.
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Sep 30, 2017 15:48
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They monitor Earth broadcasts but don't understand how Earth society works. Ok? This wasn't awful, but it's very mediocre at best, and the source material just hasn't been utilised fully, whether due to budget, awkward eugenics avoidance or a lack of engagement. The attempt at some Warren Ellis-style Karnak was adorably weak, and there's so much you can pick apart* but at least Maximus and some of the other actors are giving it their best (apart from Crystal, wow. Worst character, and actor, by far.). Lockjaw was adorable too, at least, though holy crap was he clumsily taken out to save money and he also teleported people to different locations for no reason. Confused by Auran so far too, I don't get why they're even using her at this point. *Gorgon just wondering into the ocean yelling "TRITON!" was one of the dumbest, poorly edited scenes I've ever seen though, holy crap. He goes from knee deep to drowning so quickly!
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Sep 30, 2017 16:04
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God, there were so many illogical decisions from the main characters, though. And yes, nitpicks, so warning: 1) Why send someone who doesn't look human down to Earth to infiltrate and rescue other Inhumans? He has green skin and a changed face; people will know what he is from a glance. 2) Why would Black Bolt feel the need to keep this a secret even from his council, and especially his head of security? 3) Why send late bloomers/non-Inhumans down to mine the moon (Also what is there to even mine FROM the moon?) and not Inhumans who, taking into consideration the gene pool of the society, would possibly have abilities better suited for it? And why are non-Inhumans even sent to the mines? Is that just an age-old punishment they just never thought to get rid of despite how horribly racist that is? 4) Why is Maximus concerned about going to Earth when Mars is right there and unoccupied? He knows how prejudiced the Earthlings and their armies are, especially considering the events of the last season of AoS, and they show that they can live pretty much anywhere with any space thanks to their abilities and technology. 5) Why send Gorgon, a man with hooves, to rescue Triton? Again, they would just take one second to look at his feet that he didn't even bother to conceal? Especially to a place surrounded by water, which we know now that he cannot swim in (since Attilan apparently doesn't have any pools despite housing an elementalist whom everyone knows about because she is the princess). I could go on but I don't want to clutter the thread with this stuff. After 4 seasons of watching characters be smart and logical, it's very grating and blaring how bad this writing is. Especially when I'm pretty much behind the villain and his point-of-view.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:06
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Gorgon was wearing fake feet when he first went down to Earth. They just didn't really point it out.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:13
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ApeHawk posted:God, there were so many illogical decisions from the main characters, though. And yes, nitpicks, so warning: You have to admit that being an amphibian and living on the moon has to suck rear end. If I were Triton I'd be begging for a field trip every chance I got.
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Sep 30, 2017 16:49
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:Sooo....what happens when Black Bolt sneezes? Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
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Sep 30, 2017 18:00
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So, is this mini-series good enough filler until AoS returns?
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Sep 30, 2017 18:03
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Timby posted:Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Like a balloon... and something bad happens.
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Sep 30, 2017 18:04
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it's a shame to see this karnak, which is basically just a guy with future-vision who makes nihilistic jokes, after how incredible that most recent comic was
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Sep 30, 2017 18:33
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Mraagvpeine posted:So, is this mini-series good enough filler until AoS returns? So far I think there are enough good things to outweigh the bad and keep watching. I really like Anson Mount as Black Bolt, Medusa is pretty good, and of course Iwan Rheon is doing his thing as a charismatic schemer. I think Gorgon has been pretty fun as a character too.
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Sep 30, 2017 18:42
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ApeHawk posted:3) Why send late bloomers/non-Inhumans down to mine the moon (Also what is there to even mine FROM the moon?) and not Inhumans who, taking into consideration the gene pool of the society, would possibly have abilities better suited for it? And why are non-Inhumans even sent to the mines? Is that just an age-old punishment they just never thought to get rid of despite how horribly racist that is? Look at you, being all ethnocentric.
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Sep 30, 2017 21:11
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Not-NASA lady's gonna get Terragenesis'd.Reset Smith posted:Huh, the designs on Attilan's throne remind me of the strange Kree patterns that Coulson was compulsively drawing on AOS Well, yeah. The Inhumans were created by the Kree, and that's Kree writing. Kheldarn fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Sep 30, 2017 |
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Sep 30, 2017 23:28
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Not-NASA lady and the surfer dudes had laughably terrible acting. Also Gorgon just walking into the ocean to die was hilarious. This show is so bad.
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Oct 1, 2017 00:11
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Just saw the first episode. Maximus is right. Black Bolt is kind of good. Everyone else seems to be part of a cliche. Of course it is difficult to assign blame to actors because this is a Scott Buck production. Everything doesn't look as cheap as it did in the trailers but it really isn't blowing me away either.
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Oct 1, 2017 00:30
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People were saying earlier that this was better than the Agents of SHIELD premiere, and I think that's just insane. I have no rose-tinted biases about AoS's middling first season, but even at the pilot there were some fun characters and decent banter and at bare minimum no one walked into an ocean to accidentally drown themselves or hit their head on a rock and became catatonically-useless. Also, I'm so sick of the "skeptical bureaucrat hinders intrepid scientist" nonsense. Stop that poo poo; not only is it as terrible a trope as any that ever showed up on AoS, it also makes no sense at all here. This is the Marvel loving Universe, there've been gods and monsters and aliens showing up every other year. If a researchers tells you that there might be mysterious hoofed creatures on the moon, you start packing your loving horseshoes instead of being all durrhhuhr i don belief you go home and git som rest!! Like, let's imagine that Inhumans had a lot of budget for the effects and props and sets. Let's imagine these things all end up looking incredible. Medusa's hair is flowing and constantly in motion, Triton has proper fins and scales Del-Toro-style, Attilan looks spectacular and alien instead of like one single cement bunker redecorated for every scene, all its denizens are imaginatively inhumane like a bona fide race of superpowered genetic curiosities might actually be, as opposed to a sea of ragged-looking extras with a bit of putty on their faces. Would it actually be a good show then? I don't think so. It'd still be filled with a host of unlikable characters spewing flat dialogue in a plot filled with more holes than a golf course, all paced and edited together with the skill of a Youtube commentator. Yakmouth posted:I went to the theatrical release and my understanding is that the shows airing tonight are to some extent different, but working of the assumption that they aren't very different I quite liked Anson Mount's Black Bolt in the second episode. I liked Medusa, too (I'm assuming actually that she's the 10% you were okay with 'cause I thought she was very competent throughout).
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Oct 1, 2017 00:58
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I almost feel like the show wants us to side with Maximus. The sister gets pretty wings and is accepted into society. The brother can see the future and is shuffled into the mines. The whole society is based on aesticts and not functionality. Also the not NSA boss completely discounting aliens teleporting from the moon feels almost criminal. This is a post avenger 1 and 2 world. A hole opened up over New York spewing flying alien whales and a robot made a city rises miles in the air and fall. Hoofed monster on the moon that teleport seems like a red alarm all hands on deck situation to me.
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Oct 1, 2017 01:47
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The actors for Crystal and Medusa are just terrible. Dialog makes no sense half the time; Medusa already hates Maximus then she threatens to never forgive him when he's going to shave her head. Uh lady, you already have contempt for him, that's not a threat. Not NASA operating out of a warehouse makes it look super cheap. Also did they try to find a clone of Emily Bret Rickards and told her to act like Felicity? As others have mentioned, Attilan sucks, and Maximus makes some valid points. I like the visualization of Karnak's powers, but rather than him being able to see the flaws in everything he just can see into the future slightly? That's just silly. I think i'd rather watch Iron Fist again.
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Oct 1, 2017 03:12
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twistedmentat posted:The actors for Crystal and Medusa are just terrible. Some of us joked that Medusa looked like a porn parody, but the lady playing Crystal has the acting talent of a porn actress. Karnak can see the future and alter his choices, but somehow fell off a cliff. And then just to rub it in while he's walking down a dirt path his power kicks in. For the dirt path and not the cliff face. I got as far as Gorgon drinking beers with surfer brahs. I wondered if we'd get Gorgon hoof surfing in his lame fuzzy cowboy boots, got distracted and couldn't care to go back. I almost stopped watching the first episode of Iron Fist the dialogue was so bad. Scott Buck must either come in ahead of schedule and under budget or suck great dick or both. He is just awful.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:08
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The amount of mustache twirling villainy they are having Maximus do to distract from the fact that the "good guys" are completely in the wrong is kind of hilarious. Their views, specifically the idea that the genetically inferior should be forced to spend their lives doing hard labor in horrible conditions (with comically low-tech equipment for a sci-fi society, no less) to provide the genetically superior with a life of luxury, are going to be rather hard to sell as the moral high ground.
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Oct 1, 2017 04:48
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frgildan posted:I almost feel like the show wants us to side with Maximus. The sister gets pretty wings and is accepted into society. The brother can see the future and is shuffled into the mines. The whole society is based on aesticts and not functionality. Now, asking whether or not there has ever been a seer in Inhuman history or how no one could guess his ramblings were visions? That's a good question. The people in the mines seem to have either pointless I think I said it earlier, but the fight choreography/cinematography is really, really, laughably bad. I like Karnak(as much as you could like anyone in the pilot), but his action scene lacked any force or momentum. It looked like white belts practicing at a karate school. Then came the fight between Auran and Medusa which also lacked impact and looked like a youtube fight parody video. They might have been save with some clever editing, but it was all just c-league.
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Oct 1, 2017 05:09
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Heathen posted:Karnak can see the future and alter his choices, but somehow fell off a cliff. And then just to rub it in while he's walking down a dirt path his power kicks in. For the dirt path and not the cliff face. That wasn't a mistake. He fell off the cliff, a thing that shouldn't have happened, then obviously, visually used his power to orient and direct himself, and ended up walking in a circle. If that wasn't obvious enough, he then all but looked at the camera and said, "Something is wrong with me because my powers aren't working the way they're supposed to."
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Oct 1, 2017 05:16
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Postal Parcel posted:I think I said it earlier, but the fight choreography/cinematography is really, really, laughably bad. I like Karnak(as much as you could like anyone in the pilot), but his action scene lacked any force or momentum. It looked like white belts practicing at a karate school. Then came the fight between Auran and Medusa which also lacked impact and looked like a youtube fight parody video. They might have been save with some clever editing, but it was all just c-league. It sounds like they rushed filming for this. So they probably had zero time to do any fight choreography and that was the best they could do.
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Oct 1, 2017 05:28
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One of the reviews I watched mentioned how Attilan totally comes across like those dystopian YA novels where the lead heroine has to fight back against the oppressive Capital that segregates people based on personality or blood type or something. Except in this case I guess Maximus is the lead heroine.Codependent Poster posted:It sounds like they rushed filming for this. So they probably had zero time to do any fight choreography and that was the best they could do.
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Oct 1, 2017 06:10
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BrianWilly posted:Like, let's imagine that Inhumans had a lot of budget for the effects and props and sets. Let's imagine these things all end up looking incredible. Medusa's hair is flowing and constantly in motion, Triton has proper fins and scales Del-Toro-style, Attilan looks spectacular and alien instead of like one single cement bunker redecorated for every scene, all its denizens are imaginatively inhumane like a bona fide race of superpowered genetic curiosities might actually be, as opposed to a sea of ragged-looking extras with a bit of putty on their faces. Well, my feelings aren't quite as extreme as yours, but I can't really disagree with the thrust of your argument either. Here's my take: First off, Scott Buck is a terrible script writer. I think though that if he stays away from actually writing, he's a decent show runner. I tend to like the overal shape and tone of his stories -- I think he has good ideas and terrible execution. So because of that I'm going to reserve final judgement until I see what a different writer can do with the characters (hopefully by next week... have the remaining episodes' writers been announced yet?) Second, all the ridiculous early anti-hype leading up to this show has aroused my contrarian instincts. I can't fault anyone for thinking this is pretty bad but I'm going to draw the line at it being irredeemably bad. I see a path for a good story here and I like most of the characters well enough to want to spend time with them. (Maybe not Gorgon, but certainly the others). Finally, I think this show is worth the effort of rooting for. It isn't a CW or Netflix clone about some tortured viligante and/or anti-hero learning important lessons about love and friendship. The Royal Family might be super but they aren't trying to be heroes. They just want to be left alone to eat soup while their peons mine out the moon and Maximus's coup has screwed everything up to poo poo for them. They aren't bad people in the sense that they're malicious about it -- it's 'just' that they're blinded to the realities of their society by the comforts and privileges of being the top dogs of said society. You know, like an actual aristocracy. There's serious story potential here if the series devotes time to examining these characters' biases. And sorry to everyone for the huge, rambling post. I've been itching to talk about this show for like a month now. I'm torn between recognizing that it's bad and believing that it could be really good without all that much tweaking.
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Oct 1, 2017 06:38
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I mean, the sad thing is that Scott Buck used to be a really, really good script writer. His work on Six Feet Under was excellent. Then Dexter happened -- I guess at some point he just gave up.
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Oct 1, 2017 07:11
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This was so stupid that it insulted my intelligence. That's not hyperbole, I felt genuinely insulted. The world they're trying to build is so pants on head retarded I can't believe this isn't a parody. Full disclosure; I've always thought the concept of Inhumans was pretty weak, even by comic book standards. They're only being used now out of spite because they can't do mutants, and Blackagar Boltington is hands down the dumbest name I've ever heard, especially for a character who has nothing to do with the color black or bolts or any kind. Also I just finished binge watching True Detective S1 for the first time, and now all other TV looks a little cheaper and more poorly made than it did before. Random thoughts: Inhuman society is atrocious, but Maximus is the bad guy for wanting change. The rest of the good guys are unshakably loyal to Blackatar without ever establishing any reason why, other than they need to be the good guys. He's not particularly wise or brave or even charismatic, and makes decisions behind everyone's back that gets their family members killed. They all know he's a tyrant but they're closely related to him and wanna stay on that gravy train. This society is so advanced they can build a city in a vacuum and make it invisible, automated mining is just beyond them, get out the picks and shovels you peasants! Is kingship hereditary? It must be pretty embarrassing when the king's little brother and, by omission, the heir, is a lowly powerless human. If getting powers is that random, what happens when His Majesty, the king goes through terragenisis and his power is something really debilitating and stupid, like for example if he were to turn into a giant stone wall who's only ability was to painfully open up his body to create portals for others to use. What happens to the royal line then? Speaking of which, everyone clearly hates and mistrusts Maximum, and has for years, but I guess there's absolutely no rush to produce an heir to make sure he doesn't become king, either by assassination or legitimately? The lead geneticist, whom I can only assume is an expert on terrigenisis and new inhuman's abilities, uses the safest method for learning a new inhuman's ability; stand in front of them and say "Well?" I wonder how many lead geneticists they go through when someone like Blackagar Boltstien steps out of the little chamber and says "Gee I wonder what my power is?" In the presence of the royal family no less. They have to stop and wait until both the king and heir are standing right there, for maximum effectiveness in the case of a dangerous or explosive power. A society that, once again, is able to build an invisible city on the loving moon, cannot master the subtle art of the text message. Instead let's give the king who cannot speak a phone that works by voice only. Their city has extremely limited space and is collectivist and everyone needs to be productive, but there's an entire force of mindless faceless storm troopers who just hang around the royal palace with guns and do nothing all day but stand guard and wait for someone to organize a coup for them all to join. They're not even trying to give Blacktholmew Boltski and his rule any redeeming qualities are they? Blackdar is smart enough to realize his outfit is bad and stands out, but the concept of paying money is just beyond him. Even when the woman is yelling "Hey you have to pay money" right in his face, he's just lost. A wise and noble king. Why can't they use normal sign language again? I mean they're speaking English on the moon so it's not that much of a stretch. Regardless they really need some cool John Wick 2 subtitles for that. Having someone else awkwardly translate for him every time he starts signing, even when there's no one else in the room to translate to, is really bad. Gorgon's feet look terrible. The close ups are okay, but every wide shot is just awful. The only time it looked good was when he got to earth and had them hidden with fake prosthetics and they were meant to look kinda off for awhile. Before he learned how water works and lost them. Speaking of captain of the When they were figuring out set budgets, they must have completely forgot about not-NASA. Someone panicked when it came time to shoot and just said "Um, set up and desk in the center of an empty sound stage with a projector. That looks like somewhere NASA would work!" I can pass off feet and not-NASA due to budget, but still, the setting they've tried to established in the first two episodes is just terrible.
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Oct 1, 2017 09:06
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Didn't hate it. But i feel like i'm being forced into feeling sorry for cunts on both sides. I like the Asian guy's power, Lockjaw gets the job done but i ain't cleaning up his poop.
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Oct 1, 2017 09:42
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So um, is there an explanation for the gravity situation on the moon? The royal family are the bad guys right? Why are we supposed to care about them? This show has started very badly. I agree with everything counterfeitsaint just posted.
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Oct 1, 2017 14:14
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Meh. That was the exact amount of mediocre to make me neither care enough to praise nor enough to criticize. I'd say its biggest obvious flaw out the gate is that while Maximus' views of the oppressive and bigoted society seem very much right they don't do enough work to show that the royal family are sympathetic to it. I have no problem rooting against Maximus. He's clearly using populism to advance his own power grab and he's a murdering, rapey, lying warmonger, But they needed to do more work to make it clear that the royal family would like to change their society but can't for whatever reason. I think its in there. Black Bolt's got some kind of ambiguous notions of things and Medusa is from a family that opposed the system and she spends the entire time talking about the weight of being queen. And the whole secret mission with Triton seems like it probably ties into a bigger vision for the future of the inhumans Bolt has. But then you have Gorgon and Crystal basically being casual racists and there's just not enough clear nodding that they're ignorant and wrong. I think its in there in somewhere. Its all a little too overt, Bolt and Medusa (and Triton) are all way too secretive to not have a wider agenda, and Crystal's "fihlty human" was just way too much to not be intentional. But 2 episodes in is a long time for no one in the Royal Family to have overtly said "yeah, the system is hosed up but we can't just start wars and poo poo and you shouldn't just think you're better than someone because of your DNA." Ah well. I didn't think it was a bad watch so I'll probably stick with it but maybe collect some episodes and binge. I'm not antsy for a new episode or anything but I'm ok giving it some time. edit: Now that I've thought about it a little I have a vague theory that Medusa telling Crystal "remember what I taught you" will be revealed as some kind of counter revolution thing and her "filthy human" thing was a cover she and Medusa put up. But the show isn't doing a good job making the heroes sympathetic if they're just pretending to be racist tyrants. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Oct 1, 2017 |
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Oct 1, 2017 15:39
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BrianWilly posted:scottbuck.txt As much of a talentless hack as Buck is, he didn't set the production schedule. Even a more competent showrunner would have had quite a hard time producing a show of this nature from scratch, start to near-finish, in only nine months.
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Oct 1, 2017 16:06
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A problem that Marvel attempting to use the Inhumans as 1:1 analogs to Mutants is that Inhumans are voluntary. Unlike Mutants they know and choose to go through Terragenesis, while anyone can be a mutant and it just kinda happens. This kinda throws a wrench into trying to make them your stand in for oppressed groups. The comics got around this by having Black Bolt explode a terragen bomb that created clouds that turned randos into inhumans but even then all that gave us is Ms Marvel and some really bad years of X-men comics. Agents of Shield did it by having terragen contaminate what we saw as fish pills, but I guess its in the water supply itself now? This worked on AoS because it was in the only Inhumans. Now they, as others have pointed out, basically created a YA dystopian society where people with cool powers rise to the top while those with no or lame powers (Farseer Boy's dad has really good digging hands I guess?) so they can attempt to do that analog in Attilan and it just makes the heroes look like jerks and the villain look like a hero.
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Oct 1, 2017 16:23
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Like I said, I got the sense that the show is heading for a convergence of the ideas where the Black Bolt and Medusa have been attempting to both address the oppressed Inhumans on Earth who didn't choose this and free the oppressed humans on Attilan who are victims of a really hosed up tyranny that seemingly predates them (and which based on Maximus' dialogue it sounds like Medusa's parents were hardcore about). I'm assuming that Triton's secret mission and Bolt's secrecy about it will factor into that and Crystal will turn out to be a shadow revolutionary as a big twist or something. Maybe Karnak saw it all coming and plotting stuff out which just kind of seems to leave Gorgon as a stupid bystander (which is a shame because I kind of liked him). But the show just doesn't have the deft of touch to really sell that as bubbling under the surface in the way a much better show could have. That's kind of similar to the problem Iron Fist had in that Danny was clearly written as a naive fool whose idealism was both inspiring and good while being self destructive and chaotic. But the show didn't do a good job really making it clear that was intentional most of the season instead of just being a case of bad writing, acting, and characters.
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Oct 1, 2017 16:49
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I just keep thinking we could have had another jarvilous season of Agent Carter, and not the worst GoT ripoff with Maximus Everdeen.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:17
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so far the best character hands down is lockjaw and I have a feeling they blew their budget for him in the first two episodes.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:17
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realbez posted:So um, is there an explanation for the gravity situation on the moon? The royal family are the bad guys right? Why are we supposed to care about them? Yeah, gravity is an issue. They can also do Faster than Light communication via a tiny wristwatch with folks on earth. I guess if they can cloak all their energy emissions so earth doesn't see them it can be handwaved away that their technology did it. I think a big reveal towards the end will be that Maximus set up green man's ambush as a way to start off his coup, and this reveal well cement him as being the bad guy, both in the eyes of magic moon city and the audience. After thinking about it for awhile, this show has a lot of problems, but it is the ideal sort of thing for a real good hate watch, and in a twisted, nihilistic goony way, that almost makes me look forward to seeing more.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:23
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counterfeitsaint posted:Yeah, gravity is an issue. They can also do Faster than Light communication via a tiny wristwatch with folks on earth. I guess if they can cloak all their energy emissions so earth doesn't see them it can be handwaved away that their technology did it. This isn't a reveal, Maximus directly communicates with the guys with guns when they are about to shoot Gorgon.
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Oct 1, 2017 19:36
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