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***TRIGGER WARNING***This is an effort OP meant to attract effortposts in response. If you find the act of putting effort into internet posting to be personally triggering then this thread will be extremely upsetting to you and you are hereby cautioned against reading it. ***TRIGGER WARNING*** So it goes without saying that the SA community is one of the oldest communities on the internet(certainly no one ever envisioned this place lasting as long as it has)- and as a result of both the moderation structure and the kinds of individuals this community has tended to attract a ton of interesting poo poo has happened here over the years. The history of the evolution of this community is actually quite interesting and genuinely worth knowing. However despite this being an online community wherein every word is preserved for eternity the, knowledge of the history of this community is essentially the digital equivalent a verbal tradition at this point. While certain moments and particularly funny incidents are fairly well known and occasionally discussed (e.g. Groverhaus) very few Goons have anything close to a full picture of the fascinating history of these forums. So in this here thread I am proposing that those who are interested take a bit of time and compose your thoughts about the portion of the evolution of this forum that you have personally witnessed. I think this is an astonishingly fascinating topic that if my PM's are anything to go by quite a few Goons would like to see discussed in an open and non-confrontational way. There are many events that SA has participated in that have had a real impact on our world- from our role in the emergence of Anonymous as a hacktivist group to our successful campaign to force Reddit to ban blatant child exploitation. (Reddit used to have forums focused specifically on allowing pedophiles to coax 14 year olds into posting sexually explicit images of themselves- then Goons happened.) I don't intend for this thread to be about establishing **The Truth** of what happened here- rather I am hoping for more of a "letters from the Civil War" style approach wherein posters contribute their perspectives and thoughts on the things they have experienced here. This thread is about the experience of the events that happened here and how various individuals perceived them both at the time and now many years of reflection later. In other words this thread is more about making an interesting contribution then being "right". This thread is about telling the story of this forum from the perspective of the individual- not about dueling about what the meta-narrative of SA should be. There are many fascinating posters who lurk in this forum that I am hoping to coax out into the open here (paging Uglycat) because I think there are a ton of awesome effortposts about this topic just waiting for the right oppurtunity to be written. With all that said I will kick things off by making my own tiny contribution here by describing my personal viewpoint on the infamous subforum Laissez's Fair and the role it played in shaping SA into its modern form. As you can see this is not intended to be exhaustive or even perfect, it is simply an interesting viewpoint on an immensely complicated social event that played out over the course of several years. quote:9-11 was really the start of this communities political consciousness (there was very little serieous political discussion to be found on SA prior to that) and the D&D subforum was originally created to move political discussions out of GBS. In the very early days D&D was actually fairly right leaning, with a strong libertarian contingent and a small (and mostly outclassed at the time) left-ish contingent. (Not terribly left at all by current standards with the exception of a few teenage communist edgelords). The first cracks of leftism really started in the Israel/Palestine threads (which were like 15% of the board back then and caused this forum to be targeted by pro-Israeli trolls), but the real first rivulets of leftism started in the wake of Bush Jr's endless fuckups as well as the disaster of the Iraq war. We Goons supported our troops back then and I can recall at least one rather successful charity drive wherein we bought a bunch of used kevlar vests and shipped it over to a unit (which I believe had several Goons but don't quote me on that) who then used it to up-armor their humvees against IED's. Goons had gradually soured on the GOP and Republicanism in general and and by about 2005 Republicanism had started to become a dying breed here. By about 2006 or so there was an emerging struggle between leftism and Libertarianism- with Libertarian ideas holding a distinct edge. As a final note: While my contribution here is mostly about (a small part of) the political evolution of this community I am telling that because that is what I know- not because I think politics are the only (or most valid/interesting) area of this forums history that should be discussed. Anything about any event or subforum can make for a good post in this thread- just give an honest appraisal of how you remember things playing out.
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Nov 26, 2017 18:07
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Tl;dr Fake edit: pretty good post, op
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Nov 26, 2017 18:10
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Prester Jane posted:***TRIGGER WARNING***This is an effort OP meant to attract effortposts in response. If you find the act of putting effort into internet posting to be personally triggering then this thread will be extremely upsetting to you and you are hereby cautioned against reading it. ***TRIGGER WARNING*** i agree op
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Nov 26, 2017 18:11
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Dear diary, One time I accidentally self radicalized a bunch of tweens. Whoops!
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Nov 26, 2017 18:12
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I appreciate the effort you put in, Jane, but we already have the SAcyclopedia
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Nov 26, 2017 18:16
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Who What Now posted:I appreciate the effort you put in, Jane, but we already have the SAcyclopedia I would counter that SAcyclopedia is about as useful for getting a sense of the evolution of our history as a dictionary is for getting a sense of the evolution of the English language. It is true that much of the needed information is there but it is not presented in a coherent or interesting fashion. SAcyclopedia is also not particularly well maintined and knowing which entriy's are interesting/relevant requires one to already know enough about the forums to not need it. As a quick example the entry about beecock is pretty amusing but nothing about it is particularly relevant to the modern day SA forums. This thread is about giving the community an interesting way to talk about itself and its past that doesn't boil down to a bunch of bullet points written by whoever felt the strongest about an incident at the time it happened. What good is history and knowledge if it never gets discussed? In my view spending an hour or two perusing SAcyclopedia isn't going to impart a fraction as much knowledge about the forums as spending 20 minutes reading a few effortposts will. Further no one ever really talks about SAcyclopedia much and this thread is as much about the conversation about how your community developed as it is about a list of dead hyperlinks and forgotten inside jokes. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 18:23
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The SAcyclopedia is invaluable, but it's not a narrative, and narratives have a unique power to transmit history. I'll see what parts of our history I can dredge up - I've been here a long time, but if anything that's working against me here, since it all blends together.
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Nov 26, 2017 18:57
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No nothing means anything your internet friends don’t mean poo poo, you’re still on the computer doing nothing, you don’t matter
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Nov 26, 2017 18:58
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As you stare coldly into your computer, night shift passing unnoticed before your glossy eyes, you can count on your fingers the last time you had a memorable experience that didn’t involve the internet
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Nov 26, 2017 18:59
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Narratives themselves are an illusion and a tool for organisms to try to predict future avenues of survival. At this point it is clear that coherent narratives, if they ever existed, are gone, so the only survival mechanism left is minute-to-minute wits and a strong inherent understanding of math and more specifically probabilities.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:04
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killmeimmafailure posted:As you stare coldly into your computer, night shift passing unnoticed before your glossy eyes, you can count on your fingers the last time you had a memorable experience that didn’t involve the internet I don't know how to tell you this duder but the Internet has infiltrated basically every facet of modern life in the US so pretty much anything that is both recent and memorable has a high probability of involving the Internet in some way. Also FWIW I'm a schizophrenic transwoman who was raised in a rural doomsday cult in a mostly Amish/Mennonite community. I've had a mega assload of memorable experiences that did not involve the Internet in any way (from being an 18-wheeler driving instructor to spending a fair chunk of my early teen years doing wilderness survival training) and I think this is both a relevant and interesting topic. The projection about your own life on display in those posts is amusing, but quite a few of us have managed to both spend a great deal of time in this community and have a vigorous offline life.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:10
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If Reddit is a bunch of dumb people acting smart, SA is a bunch of smart people acting dumb.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:13
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Prester Jane posted:I don't know how to tell you this duder but the Internet has infiltrated basically every facet of modern life in the US so pretty much anything that is both recent and memorable has a high probability of involving the Internet in some way. 4802835161 Samekirk@icloud.com Call me, kay? killmeimmafailure fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 19:13
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Every time I try to read one of your posts op by is my eyes glaze over and roll into the back of my head
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Nov 26, 2017 19:18
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i want to hear about the doomsday cult
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Nov 26, 2017 19:21
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Much more interested in the schizophrenic transwoman who was raised in a rural doomsday cult in a mostly Amish/Mennonite community than SA history.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:25
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*bamging fork and knife on the table and chanting"doomsday cult! doomsday cult!"
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Nov 26, 2017 19:30
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super macho dude posted:Much more interested in the schizophrenic transwoman who was raised in a rural doomsday cult in a mostly Amish/Mennonite community than SA history. Enfield posted:i want to hear about the doomsday cult The thread isn't about my past and I'm now sorry I ever mentioned it here. If you are genuinely curious this thread and this thread have got you covered. Just understand what you are getting yourself into by reading those threads.
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Nov 26, 2017 19:32
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I think it'd be interesting to read some takes from long-time members on how perceptions might have changed regarding what is acceptable on-line behavior. Specifically it'd be interesting to hear takes on how perceptions on potential on-line harassment and bullying, doxing and such might have changed, but also other community norms that may have changed. I have the impression, that issues concerning on-line harassment has steadily become more of an issue with the dawn of social media, which SA largely predates, including facebook, and that the average user has become much more vulnerable than in 1999, but that this also translates into a more conscious push-back against potential on-line harassment.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:00
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I remember the days of Helldump I remember when Crumbnist got a Big Brother avatar because he was good at putting pieces together and outting posters for everything they had ever done. A bunch of people had their alt furry accounts or fetish fanfic brought to light by him.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:06
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I think that is something we have moved away from. We don't witch hunt or crusade like we used to.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:08
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Grandmother of Five posted:I think it'd be interesting to read some takes from long-time members on how perceptions might have changed regarding what is acceptable on-line behavior. Specifically it'd be interesting to hear takes on how perceptions on potential on-line harassment and bullying, doxing and such might have changed, but also other community norms that may have changed. i mean, look at the popularity of helldump back when it existed. "helldump success stories" were linked on the main page, i think as a subforum of the comedy goldmine. now i think most people look back on helldump and think "yeah, that was kinda hosed up"
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Nov 26, 2017 20:09
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Grandmother of Five posted:I think it'd be interesting to read some takes from long-time members on how perceptions might have changed regarding what is acceptable on-line behavior. Specifically it'd be interesting to hear takes on how perceptions on potential on-line harassment and bullying, doxing and such might have changed, but also other community norms that may have changed. SA was one of the places where what we now call Doxxing was actually invented. At one point we had a subforum dedicated specifically to doxxing goons who were considered "bad posters"(Helldump)- it was deleted because it attracted a ton of shitheads who took things way too goddamned far. In the early days doxxing and organized trolling were not viewed as being as damaging as they are now because the Internet was largely still a voluntary club that you had to go well out of your way to participate in. For example SA used to organize "Goon Rushes" of various websites in the early days and do whatever we could to (in a "funny" way) disrupt or harass whichever community that was targeted. As you might expect this caused problems because it attracted too many shitheads who took things way too far, and that was why the previously mentioned helldump was originally created. Later after that Helldump was deleted and Goon Rushes formally banned there was an exodus of those posters over to an obscure experimental Goon-run website called 4chan. These posters came to form the core of /invasions and were very influential in creating the harassment culture that eventually overtook all of 4chan. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 20:12
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Grandmother of Five posted:I think it'd be interesting to read some takes from long-time members on how perceptions might have changed regarding what is acceptable on-line behavior. Specifically it'd be interesting to hear takes on how perceptions on potential on-line harassment and bullying, doxing and such might have changed, but also other community norms that may have changed. On-line harassment was a key feature of early SA, with goon rushes and the forums invasions. Because SA was one the largest communities back when bandwidth was worth more than gold goons could easily crash other forums and websites just by everyone visiting the site at once. As time went on goon rushes kept trying one another with more involved and elaborate gimmicks until it became really cringey and mods and admins stopped encouraging it and eventually actively told goons not to do them. You can still see some remnants of these days in goon clans in online games (most infamous being EVE Online's GoonFleet and Starfleet Dental), but even those are now more about goons pooling resources to help new players get into the games easier. The last real invasion attempt was with Reaganbook. Doxxing used to be prevalent too with Helldump, but as always it didn't take long for internet detectives to start making way more problems than the few they solved. KiwiFarms can be seen as the logical successor of Helldump.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:13
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Heath posted:If Reddit is a bunch of dumb people acting smart, SA is a bunch of smart people acting dumb. Koyaanisgoatse posted:i mean, look at the popularity of helldump back when it existed. "helldump success stories" were linked on the main page, i think as a subforum of the comedy goldmine. now i think most people look back on helldump and think "yeah, that was kinda hosed up" Pick posted:Narratives themselves are an illusion and a tool for organisms to try to predict future avenues of survival. At this point it is clear that coherent narratives, if they ever existed, are gone, so the only survival mechanism left is minute-to-minute wits and a strong inherent understanding of math and more specifically probabilities. 
mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 26, 2017 |
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Nov 26, 2017 20:16
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here's what I know these forums provided the origin point for a shitload of what's now just called "content". they invented memes. they invented let's plays and twitch streaming. they invented weird twitter and 4chan. they invented the dirtbag left and doxxing. modern online culture (which is just culture at this point) wouldn't be the same without the something awful forums. now my question is: where are our millions? when does lowtax get his rightful scrilla?
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Nov 26, 2017 20:22
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FYAD found A. Wyatt Mann cartoons, ironic racism and Pepe and a decade later it became the Fourth Reich
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Nov 26, 2017 20:26
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The new LF is a pale imitation to the original.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:27
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the black husserl posted:here's what I know You forgot the part where we invented the concept of Anonymous as a hacktivist group (we provided the bulk of the technical and social infrastruture that enabled Chanology to move from a large-scale DDOS into real world protests) as well as invented manipulating echo-chambers with fake accounts in order to steer large group actions. (During Chanology a few Goons were caught at one point using bots and fake accounts to create false consensus- caused quite a controversy in the community at the time.)
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Nov 26, 2017 20:30
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gently caress god drat, the fact that the original poster can get away with start off his paragraphs with lines like "So it goes without saying," "So in this here thread I am proposing that those who are interested," and "In other words this thread is more about making an interesting contribution," like they were at a boarding meeting, and still do what he was asking: like, what the gently caress? When the gently caress did you rear end holes become responsible. the black husserl posted:here's what I know Probably in 10 years when these forums are shot dead like the old yeller, and lowtax writes a book and gets a movie deal.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:34
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mind the walrus posted:And FYAD/BYOB/YOSPOS/etc. are smart people acting dumb acting like what a dumb person thinks a smart person is. That's how I've heard it at least. Personally I don't think anyone on SA is all that smart. There are definitely smart people on sa you just have to go to the right subforum, Cavern of COBOL, Ask/Tell Science and Academics, etc. I don't know why they choose to stay but I learn a lot from them.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:40
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Grandmother of Five posted:I think it'd be interesting to read some takes from long-time members on how perceptions might have changed regarding what is acceptable on-line behavior. Specifically it'd be interesting to hear takes on how perceptions on potential on-line harassment and bullying, doxing and such might have changed, but also other community norms that may have changed. I don't ever remember doxxing and lolcow poo poo being a big thing in the forums broadly (outside of helldump which was a short-lived dumpster fire). There were a few threads here and there though and when goons want to dox someone they go all out and get creepy as gently caress. Every bit as creepy as kiwifarms. This place basically invented taking a picture of someone's house (this was before google maps) and posting it online in the most passive aggressive and stalkerish way possible. But yeah, generally people have become much more vulnerable because there is so much more info about them online. The internet used to be a lot more anonymous.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:42
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luv 2 be part of a dead comedy forum that has somehow shaped the world around us for the worse
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Nov 26, 2017 20:42
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Grandmother of Five posted:I think it'd be interesting to read some takes from long-time members on how perceptions might have changed regarding what is acceptable on-line behavior. Specifically it'd be interesting to hear takes on how perceptions on potential on-line harassment and bullying, doxing and such might have changed, but also other community norms that may have changed. Community 'invasions' used to be less mean-spirited, and more about making fun of internet subcultures that took themselves too seriously. Lots of people joined the forums because the Second Life and dating game (I forgot the name) invasions were absolutely hilarious. The internet was also new enough that clever trolling really caught people off guard in a way that doesn't really happen anymore. The mean-spirited divisiveness of identity politics also wasn't yet a thing and it was a more friendly environment in general. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYuxT4CR_nM
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Nov 26, 2017 20:52
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Beer Hall Putz posted:Community 'invasions' used to be less mean-spirited, and more about making fun of internet subcultures that took themselves too seriously. Lots of people joined the forums because the Second Life and dating game (I forgot the name) invasions were absolutely hilarious. The internet was also new enough that clever trolling really caught people off guard in a way that doesn't really happen anymore. The mean-spirited divisiveness of identity politics also wasn't yet a thing and it was a more friendly environment in general. I think your glasses might be a tad rose-tinted, because there was a ton a mean spiritedness even back then, but it was largely ignored while the few gems were focused on.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:55
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Yeah, the classic "this poo poo sucks you fag" seemed retrograde even a few years after the fact.
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Nov 26, 2017 20:58
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I've lurked the forums off and on for almost 15 years but a lot of these developments were lost on me (I've never really stuck around/posted long enough to become part of the community). The SAclopedia is handy but kind of limited in its current form. A wiki-style thing would be ideal but  (and also it might just devolve into something horrible like Encyclopedia Dramatica). Reading stuff like this is interesting as hell to me though if anyone is willing to put in the time/effort 
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Nov 26, 2017 21:08
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Prester Jane posted:***TRIGGER WARNING***This is an effort OP meant to attract effortposts in response. If you find the act of putting effort into internet posting to be personally triggering then this thread will be extremely upsetting to you and you are hereby cautioned against reading it. ***TRIGGER WARNING***  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 26, 2017 21:09
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mind the walrus posted:Yeah, the classic "this poo poo sucks you fag" seemed retrograde even a few years after the fact. it's interesting that even in LF, "human being" and "friend of the family" were used a lot "ironically." the online pushback against using slurs is a pretty recent phenomenon
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Nov 26, 2017 21:20
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Poniard posted:luv 2 be part of a dead comedy forum that has somehow shaped the world around us for the worse this place has always been pretty cool, it's the loving offsites that are the scum of the earth. lowtax's misbegotten children are wrecking the planet!!
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Nov 26, 2017 21:26
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