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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's very, very Jeunet. Now I'm disappointed that they didn't replicate this scene with fishman loving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJU4IwC3LjQ
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Jan 10, 2018 06:48
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's very, very Jeunet. Especially the very specific hue of green that they used.
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Jan 10, 2018 07:43
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WENTZ WAGON NUI posted:This movie is a lot like Crimson Peak---I liked it, but didn't love it and probably won't watch it again. Mike Shannon steals the show although I'd like to see him play a character who's not a complete psychopath (I should really watch this movie where I hear he plays Elvis?) I'll repeat what others have said, I felt like the Fishman spent too much time flopping around and being pathetic/miserable without ever developing much of an actual personality, which undercut the romance. I did like how viscerally gross they managed to make 1962 look in general. There's an interesting theme where as disgusting as everything in the era is made to look the corny old movies they watch are portrayed as transcendent. shape of water isn't out here yet so can't comment but elvis and nixon is a sub-90 minute movie that manages to be extremely boring
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Jan 12, 2018 04:08
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Would You Do It With the Fish Man? https://jezebel.com/would-you-do-it-with-the-fish-man-1822000306
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Jan 13, 2018 02:42
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Henchman of Santa posted:Would You Do It With the Fish Man? It depends on what species and gender the fish person identifies as.
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Jan 13, 2018 05:13
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Jan 13, 2018 07:27
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Jan 13, 2018 17:25
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To enhance the mental image, I'm pretty sure this is the guy who voiced GIR on Invader Zim.
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Jan 13, 2018 21:20
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If the universe is just I'll get a Fourteen movie by Del Toro
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Jan 14, 2018 05:14
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I feel like Fourteen would be more of a Guy Maddin joint.
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Jan 14, 2018 15:55
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Anybody have any thoughts on Michael Shannon's sex scene with his wife, and the purpose of it in the scope of the story? The movie seems to work to show women as sexual: the masturbation scenes, Elisa pursuing the fishman, and Mike Shannon's wife initiating sex. I'm just not sure if that is the purpose of the scene, or if I'm missing something else.
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Jan 18, 2018 05:33
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zandert33 posted:Anybody have any thoughts on Michael Shannon's sex scene with his wife, and the purpose of it in the scope of the story? The movie seems to work to show women as sexual: the masturbation scenes, Elisa pursuing the fishman, and Mike Shannon's wife initiating sex. It's supposed to show that he gets off on women being silent.
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Jan 18, 2018 06:13
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Rabble posted:I loved this movie from the opening shot. What could have been a hokey story about a woman infatuated by a sea creature is instead a wonderfully crafted tale where every character is given realistic motivations that weave together seamlessly. That is a great scene. I noticed the very weighty sound the cattle prod makes as he drags it across the sink. It gave it a sense of terrible weight. On that, Shannon is always a bit too big for his environment in the movie. He stoops slightly to get into the lab, he's barely contained in that ridiculous cadillac, he completely fills the corridor that Eliza and Giles are dwarfed by. Shannon's a big guy (190cm) and they make him seem even bigger. Gatts posted:It's not on his slate but if his next movie was about a Succubus, or a Cat Woman, or a Werewolf, or Frankenstein's monster I'd enjoy him doing a Darkstalkers run. Cronos is his take on a vampire movie, it's fantastic. Blade II (which is also cosmetically a vampire movie) also touches on quite few of the same themes as Frankenstein. Sinding Johansson posted:What do a closeted gay man, an oppressed black woman, a communist and a fish monster have in common? If you watch the film, you may have an answer. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:His best are Devil's Backbone and Blade 2. I like you. Let's be friends. Henchman of Santa posted:It's supposed to show that he gets off on women being silent. His family is just another accessory as well, since he decides to buy a cadillac while squeezing her tits. The wife also lays back, immobile, still dressed, whereas Eliza stands. there's a lot going on in this movie. I'm supposed to write a review of it, and I just ended up with 1000 words of superlative compliments.
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Jan 18, 2018 06:24
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zandert33 posted:Anybody have any thoughts on Michael Shannon's sex scene with his wife, and the purpose of it in the scope of the story? The movie seems to work to show women as sexual: the masturbation scenes, Elisa pursuing the fishman, and Mike Shannon's wife initiating sex. Look at how he has sex. Where Elisa sets the fishman at ease before they go into things, Michael Shannon's character goes at his wife like a washing machine. Her comfort isn't important. Her pleasure isn't important. It's all about him. It's establishing that his perfect 50s family isn't a group of people he loves and cares about, but a thing he has. It doesn't matter if his wife is happy, as long as he's still getting what he wants from her. Basically, it's a way to establish his home life is of a piece with his attitude at work without going to the cliches.
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Jan 18, 2018 07:25
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Sinding Johansson posted:What do a closeted gay man, an oppressed black woman, a communist and a fish monster have in common? Snowman_McK posted:If you watch the film, you may have an answer. Enlighten me? No need to be snarky. What is a fishman? An emissary/hostage from an untouched, prehistoric world. What does it mean to save a fishman? Is it an act of nascent environmentalism or political rebellion? Disregarding minor very characters, there's one gay man, one black woman and one communist. They don't exist as part of any sort of historical or even symbolic movement but only as beacons of oppression (sexual, racial, domestic, political). So again, why would they all selflessly work to help a woman with a disability save her fishman lover? The power of friendship? It's sort of childish. Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 08:35
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Sinding Johansson posted:So again, why would they all selflessly work to help a woman with a disability save her fishman lover? The power of friendship? It's sort of childish. I mean, I liked but didn't love this, but it's absolutely sold as a fairy tale from the beginning.
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Jan 18, 2018 08:39
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Sinding Johansson posted:but only as beacons of oppression (sexual, racial, domestic, political). How can you have the answer, right there, successfully identified, and ignore it?
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Jan 18, 2018 10:14
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chiasaur11 posted:Look at how he has sex. You might say he gets off on dead fish, both at home and at work. RaspberrySea fucked around with this message at 10:59 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 10:57
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Snowman_McK posted:How can you have the answer, right there, successfully identified, and ignore it? Pretty much. They’re not part of any unified movement, but why do they have to be? They’re connected by virtue of being incongruous with Strickland’s sterile, normative worldview. The extent of political comment there is that the stark and authoritarian nature of Cold War America leaves no space for all kinds of Other, which the various supporting cast represent. In a sense, the fishman works best as an embodiment of Otherness or the non-normative in general. Strickland seeks to control or destroy it, but the people who see its value and humanity are the ones already forced to the margins. Saving it is really a form of self-preservation; the “love story” is really about self-love.
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Jan 18, 2018 11:22
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And Del Toro consistently makes films about the marginalised. The idea of monsters as metaphor isn't new, but while most cast them as freaks, Del Toro simply casts them as the forgotten. His vampires are redundant old people, or discarded, failed experiments and heirs. His ghosts are war orphans.
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Jan 18, 2018 12:40
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chiasaur11 posted:Look at how he has sex. I'm not sure if this is how I read things completely. Remember, when the kids leave for school it's the WIFE who asks him to go upstairs. She's the one who pulls her breast out, and for the most part she seemed to be into it prior to the blood running down his hand. Maybe you see it as her appeasing her husband, or her asking him to "go upstairs" because she thinks he needs it, but that's not how I felt about the way she acted. Maybe he was selfish in that moment, but it didn't seem to be a "normal" thing from the way the scene played out. quote:You might say he gets off on dead fish, both at home and at work. I don't agree with this at all.
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Jan 18, 2018 16:00
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Xealot posted:Pretty much. They’re not part of any unified movement, but why do they have to be? They’re connected by virtue of being incongruous with Strickland’s sterile, normative worldview. The extent of political comment there is that the stark and authoritarian nature of Cold War America leaves no space for all kinds of Other, which the various supporting cast represent. I think this is closer to the truth, but I reiterate my point is that the characters belong to no movements at all. To me, it's pretty much tokenism, a base appeal to trendy sensibilities, especially when compared to films like Hidden Figures, Hail Caesar or Brokeback Mountain (off top of my head, but chosen as they are all set in roughly the same time period). Well the black, communist and gay characters are all secondary you might say, but a flim like See No Evil, Hear No Evil is head and shoulders above this one when it comes to portraying the differently abled. How should we interpret Strickland? Well obviously he's a chauvinistic brute. What motivates him? Seemingly only personal success. Why isn't he the man of the future? Careerism is dead. Why does he (in the end) see the fishman as God? Isn't that a transformative moment for the character? This is an okay fairy tail film that has all the trappings of political allegory but it is actually completely vacuous. I'd say it's less self-love and more masturbation. Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 19:58
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I still rank the devils Backbone above this but I had a lot of fun with it, good movie. It's funny how much of a threat Shannon isnt. I mean he's pretty impotent, he doesn't put everything together or become an actual threat until the very very end Leave it to Beaver with Michael Shannon was hilarious and dark and I loved it. Shoulda put him in mad men.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:35
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:To enhance the mental image, I'm pretty sure this is the guy who voiced GIR on Invader Zim. Yep
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Jan 18, 2018 20:47
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Punkin Spunkin posted:I still rank the devils Backbone above this but I had a lot of fun with it, good movie. It reminded me why Shannon got an Oscar nom for Revolutionary Road. When you put that man in a buttoned-down, orderly setting and let him tear at the edges he's very funny.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:54
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Sinding Johansson posted:I think this is closer to the truth, but I reiterate my point is that the characters belong to no movements at all. To me, it's pretty much tokenism, a base appeal to trendy sensibilities, especially when compared to films like Hidden Figures, Hail Caesar or Brokeback Mountain (off top of my head, but chosen as they are all set in roughly the same time period). Well the black, communist and gay characters are all secondary you might say, but a flim like See No Evil, Hear No Evil is head and shoulders above this one when it comes to portraying the differently abled. The fishman is explicitly compared, for example, to a black man being sprayed with a firehose. It's certainly a choice, though what it's saying is ambiguous.
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Jan 18, 2018 20:55
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LesterGroans posted:It reminded me why Shannon got an Oscar nom for Revolutionary Road. When you put that man in a buttoned-down, orderly setting and let him tear at the edges he's very funny.
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Jan 18, 2018 21:02
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Eh, I think being sprayed with a hose signifies a related but different idea of dehumanization/devaluation more than blackness. Rambo got sprayed with a hose. A lot of prison movies feature similar scenes.
Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 18, 2018 |
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Jan 18, 2018 21:03
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Well, in this case, it has a specific context.
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Jan 18, 2018 22:03
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I'm don't quite understand what you mean by that. One thing I think was important but goes unexamined is Strickland's death. Why does the fishman kill him? Why does he proclaim the fishman a god? I mean in literal plot terms it's perfectly clear, but how are we supposed to interpret this? The fishman is a vengeful pagan god. Stickland, who's already on the cusp of a breakdown, rejects his prior beliefs and embraces paganism, but too little to late. I dunno. I never liked that Del Toro can never just kill his villains, he almost always has to torture or degrade them first.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:44
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Sinding Johansson posted:I'm don't quite understand what you mean by that. Strickland's degradation is largely self inflicted, though. He physically falls apart due to him blocking everything out with painkillers, and his career falls apart because he simply cannot imagine that the quiet hispanic woman is the one who bested him.
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Jan 18, 2018 23:49
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*extremely white middle class goon voice* uuuhhhh why are these oppressed people showing solidarity like children
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Jan 19, 2018 05:49
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It's extremely shallow to me that people would stand together to help someone find safety from the yoke of brutal, xenophobic patriarchy
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Jan 19, 2018 05:54
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Here is an interesting article on the film that I enjoyed reading.
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Jan 19, 2018 06:21
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Strickland's entire character is "normative white patriarchy that destroys everything it touches, including itself". This isn't subtle.
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Jan 19, 2018 06:57
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Snowman_McK posted:Strickland's degradation is largely self inflicted, though. He physically falls apart due to him blocking everything out with painkillers, and his career falls apart because he simply cannot imagine that the quiet hispanic woman is the one who bested him. That's a good way to put it, but I don't think it really captures his development. It was awhile ago I saw this but iirc the four critical scenes with him are; the Cadillac man of the future bit, the rehearsed speech about his failure to his supervisor, ripping off his fingers and calling the fishman god. Unlike what some other posters have said, the rehearsed speech seems to make clear that he is not somehow the embodiment of the patriarchy or w/e else but an individual embedded within it. The rotting fingers definitely suggest a willful blindness. That's why I say that ripping them off, combined with calling the fishman a god suggest a transformation of the character. Killing him then, (after he had been disarmed?) seems vindictive. The actor Sally Hawkins is English and her character has an Italian surname btw. #Not all cleaning ladies.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:12
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A pretty good article. Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 20, 2018 |
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Jan 20, 2018 01:20
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Pomp posted:*extremely white middle class goon voice* uuuhhhh why are these oppressed people showing solidarity like children And it's not like it's automatic. Octavia Spencer's character is basically acting like "Ah, poo poo, I have to go along with this don't I?" Hawkins' character is very persuasive in her way.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:36
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Sinding Johansson posted:That's a good way to put it, but I don't think it really captures his development. It was awhile ago I saw this but iirc the four critical scenes with him are; the Cadillac man of the future bit, the rehearsed speech about his failure to his supervisor, ripping off his fingers and calling the fishman god. I thought Esposito was a hispanic name. Shows what I know. I'm probably thinking of Espinoza. Strickland is beyond redemption because even after the general reminds him of how fragile his place in the hierarchy is, and how his decency doesn't matter (he's a monster, just one of his own creation) he fights to get his spot back, rather than rejecting it wholesale. He willingly keeps being a monster. He also doesn't just kill the 'god' he kills his prophet, too.
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Jan 20, 2018 01:37
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I’ve met Spanish speakers named Esposito, too, but yeah I’m pretty sure she’s not supposed to be Latina. She does have a disability, though, which feels like a rare minority category to represent let alone star in a movie. And there’s the literally voiceless thing, so it’s not subtle.
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Jan 22, 2018 09:46
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